Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010

[DonViejo]

Source: CNN




By MJ Lee, CNN National Politics Reporter
Updated 9:01 AM ET, Mon November 20, 2017

(CNN)A woman says Sen. Al Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010, telling CNN that he grabbed her buttocks while taking a photo at the Minnesota State Fair.

-snip-

Lindsay Menz, a 33-year-old woman who now lives in Frisco, Texas, reached out to CNN on Thursday hours after Tweeden made her story public. Menz said she wanted to share an "uncomfortable" interaction that left her feeling "gross."

According to Menz, she attended the Minnesota State Fair with her husband and father in the summer of 2010, almost two years after Franken was elected to the Senate. Her father's small business was sponsoring a local radio booth, and she spent the day meeting various elected officials, political candidates and celebrities and taking photos with them as they stopped by the booth.

When Franken walked in, Menz and her husband, who also spoke with CNN, said they recognized him right away. Menz said she had a brief and cordial exchange with the senator.
Then, as her husband held up her phone and got ready to snap a photo of the two of them, Franken "pulled me in really close, like awkward close, and as my husband took the picture, he put his hand full-fledged on my rear," Menz said. "It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek."

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html

[katmondoo]

1. I do not believe this, just another Republican swiftboating a Democrat

[dalton99a]

2. Yep - a Trump devotee.

[ATL Ebony]

37. Agree 1000+

[Kimchijeon]

44. Agreed, it is total BS. nt

[Bengus81]

64. How did hubby NOT see a hand WRAPPED around his wifes ASS?

Or how did Franken pull her closer with his hand on her ASS and NOT have it wrapped around in plain view of her husband??

Total bullshit................

[forgotmylogin]

113. Wait, she's 33 and this happened 17 years ago?

That makes her 16. I ... guess old enough to be married in Texas?

I get it. People shouldn't have their butts grabbed by strangers, but I've had more action than that on a crowded public train completely by accident.

A butt-grab can happen by accident in photo taking. Happens all the time. You raise your arm from your side to put around the person's waist next to you and you brush their ass indadvertently in the process.

This is a lame effort to lump Franken with Moore as groping underage teens, but can a teen be underage AND married?

[GatoGordo]

120. seven years was my understanding (EOM)

[forgotmylogin]

140. My bad, I was thinking 2000 and not 2010.

Carry on!

[mountain grammy]

3. Rogers working his magic.

[Le Gaucher]

4. rogers who?

[BumRushDaShow]

6. Probably meant "Roger's"

(with apostrophe for a contraction) as in Stone.

[mountain grammy]

7. Meant Rogers

Roger Stone.. I believe he’s behind the swift boating of Al Franken. Tried twice to get that apostrophe in there and it won’t show up.

[DFW]

24. Punctuation often vanishes in threat titles

FYI

[IronLionZion]

55. Sometimes d's turn into t's

when a thread becomes a threat

[mountain grammy]

60. Thanks. Noticing that now.

[defacto7]

81. The missing apostrophe in the title thing happens to me

every once in a while. People think I'm nuts. Sometimes nothing but letters and numbers.

[mountain grammy]

94. Yeah, it is weird..

[bdamomma]

21. I think the poster meant

Roger Stone.

[BumRushDaShow]

5. So what news is Mueller announcing today (or this week)? nt

[orangecrush]

53. x 2

[mac56]

8. Republicans: OMG, OMG, OMG

THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER, HE NEEDS TO RESIGN, NO, HE NEEDS TO COMMIT HARA-KIRI AND THEN RESIGN

At least half a dozen women have reported that Judge Roy Moore sexually assaulted them when they were still teenagers.

Republicans: * crickets *

[defacto7]

88. The bible says....

"If thy hand offend thee, cut it off."
So he should cut his hand off... then resign.

I wonder what Moore needs to cut off?



(sarc)

[MrsMatt]

9. I met Senator Franken at the Minnesota State Fair

in 2017, and had my picture taken with him.

He did not grab my ass.

[MissKat]

10. Oh for heaven's sake

Bum pats are NO BIG DEAL

Having a 14 year-old girl touch your genitals is A BIG DEAL when the YOU is a 32-year-old DA.


So, from now on, no reporting on bum pats, either by George the Elder or anyone.

When someone pats your bum and you don't like it you say, "Stop it." End. of. story.

When they molest a child they need to go to jail.

Can we stop being insane?

[MichMary]

76. One problem--

it is not up to YOU to decide what kind of touching is "no big deal" for anyone else. People can go around fondling your ass and if you don't care, I don't care either. But, if someone fondles me, different story. This woman is entitled to say she didn't like it, it was inappropriate, should never have happened, and if it still creeps her out, she's entitled to that, too.

[Jazzgirl]

161. It didn't happen. This is a Roger Stone plant.

n/t

[mentalslavery]

11. Read the article.....

its pretty weak. Basically after Al became a senator, he grabs a girls butt, right in front of her husband as he is taking a picture. She even goes on to mention that a republican senator was so much more respectful in his picture taking than Al. HMMNNNNN.....




BTW's---Muller conducting NEW far-reaching interview and document searches

[Gidney N Cloyd]

12. Here's the 'damning' photo evidence:

[dalton99a]

14. InfoWars: "The photograph clearly shows that his finger is in her vagina"

[DURHAM D]

15. I want to know where her hand is. nt

[deancr]

20. The eyes

are the window to the soul. That is to say: bullshit.

[Itchinjim]

32. That is not the expression I would have if my butt were being grabbed.

[brush]

51. So now anyone with a photo of someone they want to target can contact a media outlet and say...

he/she molested me?

This one sounds particularly dubious as there is no evidence of anything, not even a pretend groping.

I mean how stupid would someone have to be to grope a woman as her husband is taking the photo of the two? Wouldn't she have reacted and told her husband who was standing right there? And wouldn't he have acted to protect his wife?

All she said was she walked immediately away and told her husband later.

R-i-i-i-i-i-i-g-h-t! Totally believable .

Bet the word has been put out in repug circles that anyone with a photo of Al Franken can earn some bucks if they say he groped her.

[PatSeg]

82. That is how it sounds

Now male politicians are going to be afraid to get within two feet of any women, especially if there is a camera around. And legitimate victims of real sexual assault could end up being silenced yet again. That might even be a motive on the right.

[Eliot Rosewater]

105. Franken is one of the best people around, and the cons hate that.

They lie about EVERYTHING

[joshcryer]

144. Welcome to the court of pubic opinion.

Where any accuser can be believed because no one apparently ever lies about this stuff.

[brush]

146. Bingo.

[pandr32]

102. Looks like both of them would have their back arm/hand touching the other person

This is the problem when someone wants a close picture with another. If Franken were to put his arm around her shoulder it would be too familiar and he did not do this.
Next time we stand in close to someone to take a picture--pay attention. Even if your arm falls limp it will be limp across the back side of the other person unless you bend your arm across your own back--awkward and uncomfortable.
If she was so creeped out by Franken why want a close-up picture with him?

[Eliot Rosewater]

104. Cons lie, cheat, steal and if they can will kill as many of us old and poor people as they can.

[wryter2000]

152. Is that the picture she's talking about?

She doesn't look uncomfortable to me.

[riverwalker]

156. Look at her face, people

She said he squeezed her butt and she thought “Oh my God what’s happening” (her words). LOOK at her face! No reaction at all, not startled, not shocked, not upset. Nothing. Like nothing happened. I noticed the photo is cropped not to show his hands. That’s convenient.

[IronLionZion]

13. Did Roger Stone tweet about this ahead of time too?

[CrispyQ]

16. They're going after one of our best bulldogs.

I gave Tweeden the benefit of the doubt, but her accounting of what happened is starting to stink & this one stinks right from the start.

[harun]

70. Tweeden is very much a right winger and married to someone in the Military.

Not that I would discount her statement based on that but worth noting. Especially if it is found other women happen to come forward and have similar allegiances.

[rainy]

71. Well they killed Pail Wellstone

They destroy the ones most dangerous to their agenda!

[MrsMatt]

126. "Pail" Wellstone

was killed in a plane crash, due to a series of awful decisions and coincidences. He was not murdered by a cabal of right-wing assassins.

That said, I do think there is an element of conspiracy in the Franken allegations.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

131. Please see DU rule about where to post wacky assassination conspiracy theories. . . nt

[FBaggins]

17. I'll wait for more before believing this one.

If he did this to one woman, then he did it to dozens of them (as apparently with Bush Sr. in recent years).

I don't think this adds to the current accusations unless a couple more people come forward.

[True Dough]

57. The tipping point to potential serial behavior is what scares me as well

I'd like to write off this latest accusation as others have in this thread, but what gives me pause is Franken's lack of recollection and his "apology-light," which could be a signal of other related behavior, he feels badly if she felt disrespected.

Franken is not making a strong assertion, such as "I would never do such a thing."

I fear there is more to come.

[LakeArenal]

61. He Protests too Much....

He protests not enough.....

I remember when I was a teen and I was in a car accident that became he said-she said.. My father said, if it happens again... SAY NOTHING. Just do what police tell you and don't say anything.

I have used that advice on occasions other than accidents.. I must it admit it has served me well.

Also, when Paul McCartney was getting his divorce from Heather Mills, he said nothing.. She shouted, told everyone he was abusive, mean, cheap.. Sir Paul, said nothing.

[True Dough]

77. I guess

it really doesn't matter how he responds because the number of women who come forward will dictate Franken's fate.

Bill Cosby professed his innocence but he has been convicted in the court of public opinion, and I think that's reasonable.

I would personally prefer to hear Franken say that he would never touch a woman inappropriately or without her consent. I'd want to believe him. That's what I would say in my own defense because I know it's true.

If we've seen the extent of the accusations against Senator Al, then hopefully this blows over he carries on in the Senate, having made his apology.

If more women come forward or the ethics investigation finds he has a history of being a perv, then he can go down in infamy like the other lecherous men getting their just desserts these days.

[CanonRay]

18. Let's see the picture.

We should be able to tell where his hands are.

[LisaL]

22. The photo is in the article.

But you can't see where the hands are.

[7962]

30. HW Bush is in a full pic, and you can't see where his hands are,

and the girl in THAT photo has the same smile on her face as this one.
Who knows anymore. And thats a shame. because stories are going to be made up at some point about someone, and that going to hurt all the women who are telling the truth.

[question everything]

19. This is the problem of "he said/she said"

This is why one should concentrate on the photo and not on testimonials like this one. Or the "kiss"

[LisaL]

23. You can concentrate all you want, but you can't see anything in that photo that would indicate where

the hands are

[bdamomma]

25. this is total BS

we have a woman assaulter as pResident, and the repigs are totally in bed with this POS, and then we have Roy More another sick fuck, even our Senate will lower the bar and accept these putrid men with an (R) next to their name (as long they are not a Democrat) and they are targeting Senator Franken????? sickening.

[GeorgeGist]

26. Bullshit,

[Control-Z]

27. Her husband didn't see it

even though he was looking directly at them? And he didn't go after Al after his wife told him what he had done?

[ananda]

28. Frisco, Texas?

Really?

I don't believe Franken did anything to her.

That photo looks totally innocent.

[angrychair]

72. Hold on now

Yes, it’s Texas but I used to live in Frisco and it’s beautiful community, home to Dallas FC (MLS Soccer) and predominantly Democrat.

I do not believe her, there is no way you have a stranger full-hand grab your ass without warning and keep that smile and look on your face.
Plus, this was at a open, public venue, in which anybody could see, it seems unlikely and incredibly risky.

[MarcA]

158. Frisco Democratic ?!

This is essentially an extension of North Dallas.
Collin County is one of the most reliably big-vote
Repub places in Texas.

[angrychair]

162. ROFL

To be fair, I only knew Democrats when I lived there and have to admit I loved it there and any people I encountered were amazingly nice and pleasant.

I was wrong though, it is very republican leaning.

[still_one]

29. HONESTLY, F**K CNN, and the rest of the sorry excuse we have for a media. This is just another

reason that the only U.S. television news source I watch is Bloomberg.

Let's hear the media tell us how the Supreme Court ruled the ACA unconstitutional:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/cnn-and-foxs-supreme-court-mistake.html

or tell us that Gabby Giffords was killed, or that Hinkley missed Reagan, or that when Comey released the letter to the republicans in Congress that the email investigation had been reopened, and they proceeded to parade republican politicians across their screens propagating that LIE.

Take it from CNN, the network which entertained a discussion "if Jews were really people":

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a50906/are-jews-people-was-a-real/

It is a tough choice between the National Enquirer and the MSM who to rely on.

[7962]

31. Holy crap, "are Jews real people"????? Hadn't seen that one before. Damn.

amazing how the Jews are STILL such a "problem" for so many people in so many countries.

[George II]

59. A little bit further off topic, but Jerry Falwell used to preach....

....that God doesn't listen to the prayers of Jews. Really!!

[Mosby]

108. Ann coulter, while on CNBC, said Jews need to be "perfected"

And that America would be better off if everyone was Christian.


https://www.haaretz.com/news/ann-coulter-s-dream-of-a-jew-free-america-1.231042

[George II]

139. Of course she doesn't realize Christ's background (you know, the man behind Christianity).

[IronLionZion]

40. WTF!

Who is in charge of approving this BS to air?

[still_one]

50. They are obviously doing it for ratings. With the national televised news outlets, they intermingle

opinion and commentary with news so much, it becomes difficult for many to distinguish between opinion and fact

[Mike Nelson]

33. Weak...

...the anti-Al will have to do better than this...

[denvine]

34. Republicans are doing what they did to Hillary

They are planting the seed to take down one of our strongest advocates. They will continue this until the name Franken is toxic. That is what they did to Hillary for over 20 yrs. It's a long term systematic take down and the news media is playing right into their hands. They are changing the conversation from things that really matter.

[FakeNoose]

67. They don't have Hillary to kick around any more

Looks like Al Franken is the next target for the GOP swiftboaters.

I sure hope he can handle this. He's smart enough to deal with them, but whether or not he wants to is another question.

Al needs all of us to to have his back. He's definitely one of the good guys.

[LenaBaby61]

143. A constant drip, drip, drip ....

scenario in anything 9/10 hurts a Democrat. thuglicans can do horrible things and stay unscathed for a long time if not forever IE: Fatso in the White House, David Vitter. Even if this woman has people pushing her from the right politically, they'll send/find another one and another one until finally a woman in our OWN party will hold a presser condemning and then demanding that Senator Franken step down. And even though it may be a coordinated effort from the right because Franken essentially took down beauguard (Like I'm beginning to feel it is), Franken may just step down to call himself "saving the party," when he wouldn't be saving them. Look @ Former tRumputin campaign manager from Oklahoma whose self-righteous up to his eyeballs Ralph Shortey. That SUPER DUPER pedophile and sickest fuck out there just stepped down and pleaded guilty to child sex trafficking/child prostitution and to my knowledge, no thuglican told HIM to step down. Where was the moral outrage from thuglicans about him, yet they went on and on about Weiner.

Meanwhile, tRuputin will be tweeting about how Franken had to step down because he's a sexual predator when that fat bastid's one of the biggest freaks of the weeks out there. IF the drip, drip, drip does get to Franken, or other women come out accusing him of whatever and he steps down, CNN, MSNBC and of course FoXXX News will be covering it non-stop and maybe enough distraction happens so that abortion of a tax bill WILL be passed

[oberliner]

35. Pathetic that the responses to this are primarily "She's lying"

Is this really what DU is about?

[brush]

58. What's pathetic is taking as gospel a photo with no evidence of groping. She could just as easily...

be lying.

That photo is no evidence of anything but two people posing for a photograph.

There's got to be more than her word.

Why didn't she react and tell her husband?

And why didn't he act to protect his wife?

[rainy]

78. The response is who really gives a shit?

Can’t a woman say get your hand off my ass and defend herself without tattle-telling as if she has been damaged for the experience of having a funny guy touch her butt! It doesn’t rise to the level of sexual abuse and is a NON STORY!

[Orrex]

90. No, you've got it all wrong

We must work diligently to drive a dedicated Liberal Senator from office solely and simply because partisan accusers have come forth with vague and poorly substantiated evidence from a decade ago.

And if you suggest that Russian propaganda or Republican operatives are behind it, then you obviously hate women.

[Orrex]

83. What standard of evidence would you require?

Last edited Mon Nov 20, 2017, 02:55 PM - Edit history (2)

You paint yourself as noble defender of women, but you are conspicuously and aggressively eager to condemn Franken based on only the vaguest of hearsay by political opponents. Do you require any threshold of credibility, are do you accept all accusations as gospel regardless of time, circumstance, or claimant?

[Butterflylady]

36. Check their bank accounts

I'm sure their healthier than before.

[Heather MC]

38. So is this the game they're playing now every white Republican woman that took a photo with Al Frank

is now going to crawl out from under a rock and claim he grabbed their ass during a photo

[Justice]

39. Menz posted the photo with Franken on Facebook at the time, on August 27, 2010.

So upset, husband shaken, felt gross, yet posted picture on Facebook?

[Control-Z]

42. Did he post about the butt grabbing

along with the pic?

[MichMary]

84. She did. FTA:

Menz responded to her sister on Facebook: "Dude -- Al Franken TOTALLY molested me! Creeper!" (The exchange is visible to Menz's Facebook friends.)

[brush]

95. Hope she has a time-stamped screen grab of that or the only evidence is that photo which shows...

nothing. Her word and that photo alone are not enough.

Seems she would have taken a screen grab as well before coming forward with this allegation.

[MichMary]

96. Maybe she did

There are an awful lot of situations where "her word" is all the proof we need.

We seem to be on a slippery slope, where we believe some women and disbelieve others, all based on political partisanship.

[brush]

99. If the has the screen grab she should offer it up. You must admit the timing of this seems dubious..

since many have been saying since Tweeden allegations came out that if more accusers forward and add credibility to her claims it'll be time for Franken to step down.

And voia, another accuser steps forward with a non-incriminating photo and an allegation.

There's got to be more proof than that considering how desperate repugs are to get the heat off trump and Moore by showing that Democrats do it too.

[rainy]

98. That says it all!!! No media better

repeat this as it is not credible at all!

[geardaddy]

41. "Menz said she believes she has voted for Franken as well, but is not sure."

Who doesn't remember who they voted for for Senate?

[George II]

46. Especially since it would have been only a few years ago.

[geardaddy]

47. I know, right?

She's all over the place.

[mentalslavery]

69. especially after she gets grabbed by him and then

can't recall if she voted for him. I don't remember if I voted for a guy that sexually assaulted me.......

[MichMary]

86. Could have been in 2008

before this happened.

[dragonlady]

128. Everybody in Minnesota remembers who they voted for in the Senate election

The outcome was contested and recounted for more than six months and it was one of the longest-lasting stories in the Minnesota press. You don't forget whose side you were on during all that.

[geardaddy]

135. +1 million

[GatoGordo]

145. 2008 Franken was in tight race

Against unpopular Republican (Coleman) and 3rd party spoiler (Barkley).

Franken won by the smallest of margins (less than 0.01%)

I don't remember who I voted for. I only know it wasn't Coleman, and the mood in Minnesota was sour. A lot of us were very angry at both parties for having sold out Minnesota to the special interests. Ventura had recently won election as an outsider in 1999, and those memories were fresh.

I voted for Franken in 2012.

[red dog 1]

124. + 1

I was thinking the same thing after reading that.

[cubbies01]

43. We better stand with him

This is ludicrous and clearly politically an attack on one of our stars. So sick how they flip thinks...like having a media AM and Cable army full of lies that came up with the Fake News mantra.

[ClarendonDem]

155. I literally

Cannot decipher your post. What is a "media AM" and why is "Cable" capitalized? And what is the "Fake News mantra"?

[George II]

45. I'm sure I'll get accused of "slut shaming", but this is a non-story to me. I rode the NYC subway...

...to High School and College years ago. I can't count the number of times I was "groped" in those seven years. And not only that, I can't count the number of times, when people shoved into the cars before the doors closed, that I found my hand against someone's butt - man or woman.

Several years ago when I ran for office we got all the candidates together for a group photograph. We we told to stand as close we could to all get in the photograph. We found ourselves with our arms around the waists of the people next to us, men and women.

I'm getting fed up with all the faux indignation I'm seeing these days about innocuous, perhaps inadvertent contact between politicians and the public. Back during the campaign Bill Clinton and Gabby Giffords appeared at a small rally in the area. I was lucky enough to have a seat in the front row. Afterward, Clinton "worked the rope line" shaking hands and taking selfies. People were crammed together trying to shake his hand, and hands touched butts!!

[orangecrush]

48. "Bible width apart"

Fundie code.


Menz posted the photo with Franken on Facebook at the time, on August 27, 2010. Her sister, Cari Thunker, commented under the photo: "Sorry, but you two aren't Bibles (sic) width apart" -- a reference, Thunker explained to CNN, to how physically close Menz and"

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html

[progressoid]

111. "Insert Holy Spirit here"

More like, insert euphemism here. Amirite?

[orangecrush]

114. I believe

it means "NOT" to insert the euphemism.

[iluvtennis]

49. "Hand was tightly wrapped around my butt check". How is that even possible unless it's a baby's rear

[FreeStateDemocrat]

52. Boycott fucking CNN

[Snellius]

54. He's not that stupid

Even if he wanted to. At a very public state fair? With her husband right there. Good way to get your nose broken. That said, I'm always shocked by the real reasons why famous people, those mine's-bigger-type men, politicians, rock stars, journalists, even writers and professors, if you get to really know them, why they really try to get famous. Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac for many men.

[Pisces]

56. Doesn't seem credible to me. Her husband was taking the picture.

[Bengus81]

62. Of course,the RW smear machine KNOWS the Tweeden story is going NOWHERE....

So when this one goes no where they'll have to make the charges by "someone" a HELL of a lot worse than these two. Watch for it...........

[chelsea0011]

63. So, he just decided to grab her ass while her husband was shooting the pic? Really? This sounds

like more a case of something unintentional.

[Old Vet]

112. OK, Were to believe that while her husband was taking the picture he grabbed her ass.....

My wife would of automatically stopped everything and slapped him, At the least she would of told me. This just doesn't past the smell test IMO......

[jalan48]

65. We are moving to a society where we don't touch one another. How is it possible to verify

accusations like this when there is no proof other than the victim's statement?

[B2G]

66. Unless there is penetration or injuries,

there is seldom the 'proof' you are asking for.

And even if there is proof of sexual activity, then question becomes consent.

Which is why so many victims stay silent. As a poster here, you should know this.

[jalan48]

73. What to do then in a case like this, eh?

[B2G]

74. I don't know...what do we do with all of the others?

The gold standard at DU used to be to believe the women.

[jalan48]

75. Maybe the gold standard doesn't work. Some women lie and in so doing can can

cause serious injury to the reputation of a man or even send him to jail. A man was released from a Louisiana prison last week, after 50 years, for a rape he never committed. I don't think the gold standard worked very well for him.

[B2G]

80. At a minimum, some consistency would be nice.

We can't dismiss some women and back others simply based on their politics or the politics of the accused.

Sexual assault and harassment has no political party.

[jalan48]

89. I agree with that. In its most extreme form that type of partisanship leads to the accepted rape

of women by the victorious troops in a war situation. I don't have an answer to the problem but my original comment about a no-touch society was serious. What other solutions are possible?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

85. The gold standard is to take women's complaints seriously.

Nobody should be believed blindly and without question; false accusations are very rare but they do happen (as in the Duke lacrosse team matter). In the past, women's complaints of sexual harassment were routinely brushed off and not taken seriously, and that needs to change. It's a good thing that we are now moving to the point where we can take every complaint seriously enough to investigate it further and not assume the woman is making up a story. But that's not the same as taking every complaint as gospel truth, which is also problematic.

[B2G]

87. And yet, count the number of posters

dismissing this woman out of hand with no further discussion or information.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

91. Take it seriously but don't believe it unquestioningly.

There's a difference.

[B2G]

92. I agree with you.

The vast majority of DUers, however, do not.

[David__77]

93. That is not my gold standard.

Even if there are 50 women making similar statements, that is not my gold standard.

[LakeArenal]

121. It still is the standard..

You know it is. There are exceptions. This case many of us think it's a propped up story that is trying to make an alleged fanny grab equal to numerous women talking of exposed penises, groping in a private setting, threats to lively hood and reputation and men that had authority over women.. Al Franken has no authority over Tweedy or this new person, with her husband.

Don't try lumping us into some type of group misogynists.

[CatMor]

68. I don't believe this accusation....

It is BS.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

97. I don't believe it or not believe it.

I don't think women's complaints should be dismissed out of hand just because the complaint is against one of our guys. I also don't think it should be believed without question. There is some objective truth out there, regardless of who the complainer is and who is being complained about. The question becomes how to determine that truth. Are there reasons to believe it happened as she said? Yes. Are there also reasons to believe it didn't? Also yes. Will people come out of the woodwork with similar stories? I hope not, but if they do, they should be taken seriously but not believed absolutely and without question. If there is a pattern the complaints are more believable, but one must also consider their source. Is there an agenda? I think Leeann Tweeden has one, but does that change the truth? If it's all true, then what? If it's all false, how much damage has been done?

[CatMor]

101. You are right stating I don't believe it or not believe it

what i do believe in is our justice system where you are innocent until proven guilty. With all the people who must have been around you would think someone saw it. I just can't imagine him doing something like that. He is a very smart man so why would he jeopardize his political life by feeling someone's behind while campaigning. It doesn't make sense.

[GatoGordo]

110. If their back is away from the camera, and there is a wall behind them...

... who is going to witness it?

Years ago, my wife and I went out on a triple date with friends. The gals went to one movie and the guys went to another. They came into our movie, found us in our dark theater, to tell us that their movie was terrible and they would meet us later at the pub we had been to earlier. It was only months later when asked out again by these same couples that my wife said that she had been groped (breasts) in the theater by one of the males in our group the last time out. I asked why she didn't say something, to either him or me as it happened, and she shrugged and said, "It didn't feel important at the time. He was drunk and I didn't want to make a scene. They are our friends." I didn't see it occur, and in all honesty, it is his word against hers months/years later, though I believe her.

I can understand how it can happen once. But its a pattern with some people, and it was a pattern with him. My wife and I both know better now. It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for a woman to call it out when it happens.

Franken may or may not be guilty. But just because his alleged transgressions are less than Roy Moores doesn't mean he is absolved from his bad behavior.

[CatMor]

116. I will also give an example...

when i was very young on one of my first jobs i was standing up leaning over my desk when a male worker came into my department. He walked past me and patted my behind. I was so startled I let out a yelp. Everyone heard it. It was a normal reaction. I also made a complaint against him that very day. I didn't wait a year or two. Why would you stand in the photo smiling and not have a reaction

[GatoGordo]

117. I would agree

Who knows? Either it happened just after the photo (guessing?), or it didn't occur at all.

Valuable lessons learned.

[Mime-Is-Money]

79. Very disappointed with this forum after this reaction

I'm a die hard liberal, but some of the responses in this thread in response to female accusations against Franken are on the same level as the alt-right who dismissed the women coming out against DT and RM.

It doesn't matter if the accusations are different (harassment vs groping), the statements from these women should be taken earnestly if you/we are serious about combating sexual harassment head on.

Step back, take a deep breath, and realize what you are haphazardly dismissing. If this were Bannon, Miller, DT, Sessions, etc, you'd be frothing at the mouth mad. I know I would be, and am with these allegations.

These types of reactions (dismissing the claimant because of political affiliation, "protecting one of our own", blaming the victim, slut shaming, etc) are exactly what has helped harassment stay so ingrained in our society.

[GatoGordo]

100. Agree 100%

Its like quibbling over if its better to eat a full bucket of shlt vs eating 7/8 bucket of shlt. IT'S STILL EATING SHIT, and it is entirely distasteful.

What is distressing is that both sides (right and left) are being tried in the court of public opinion. They are guilty until they can prove themselves innocent. Is that what we REALLY want?

If we are going to hang labels on people without their day in court, then what we are seeing is going to affect Democrats as much as Republicans. Did anyone HONESTLY think that this wasn't going to happen?

[rockfordfile]

123. I'm a liberal

Franken is not Trump or Bannon. Ironically the woman in the picture voted for Trump. Strange when you think about the Trump video tape.

[Oneironaut]

159. Sorry, but thats the way our country is now.

Republican gets accused, Republicans defend the accused to absurd proportions, refusing to listen to any facts.

Democrat gets accused - Democrats defend the accused to absurd proportions, refusing to listen to any facts.

Everything is political now. There is no such thing as the truth. If this doesn’t change, it will either destroy our country or turn us into an autocracy. I don’t think it will change. The current tribalist mindset is ripe for abuse by malevolent politicians.

At some point along the line, we started caring more about politics as a team sport than common sense and what’s best for America. We are willing to discard our ethics for perceived “wins.”

[Eliot Rosewater]

103. When Al denies this, as he will, then I will call her a liar. This is real simple folks.

By the end of today there could be 50 more of these where there is NO proof, all coming from Trumpsters.

AGain, NOT he said she said, good guy known for telling the truth and being faithful to his wife said, people connected to the worst slime on the planet said.

[rockfordfile]

118. I certainly could see that. Franken or any other politician has these events with people

[FBaggins]

149. His response is not encouraging

"I take thousands of photos at the state fair surrounded by hundreds of people, and I certainly don’t remember taking this picture. I feel badly that Ms. Menz came away from our interaction feeling disrespected."

That doesn't sound like a denial.

[Eliot Rosewater]

150. It sure is a denial. Absolute, 100%.

[FBaggins]

151. ???

How so?

"I don't remember her but would never do that" is a denial.

[CatMor]

153. It is a denial without calling her a liar.

He is being so considerate to these women. I hope he takes off the gloves if this continues.

[wisteria]

133. And, you just joined today to post this.

You don’t think dates and posts can not be manipulated on Facebook?

[GatoGordo]

137. How would a person pull that off?

I'm pretty Facebook savvy, and I can't imagine how to timeline a post back 7 years? Aren't all FB posts chronological? Wouldn't it document if a post were edited?

I imagine a FB programmer could pull it off. Is that what you are suggesting?

[WomanWhoRoars]

107. Hannity

Looks like we're at war with Hannity

[blue cat]

109. So has any reporter checked

the Facebook timeline of second woman?
I'd like to see it. I haven't seen it produced yet. If it is on Facebook timeline...

[GatoGordo]

122. The time stamp would be damning

but I'd like to see the proof before throwing him under the bus.

[red dog 1]

125. Kick

[SunSeeker]

127. The Republicans needed an incident that happened while Franken was Senator. Now they have one.

In order to have an ethics investigation of Franken, the incident needed to happen while Franken was Senator, in light of the Vitter precedent where the Ethics Committee refused to investigate Vitter's use of prostitutes since it occurred when he was not Senator. The Tweeden accusation, which occurred well before Franken became Senator, fell into that same category. The Republicans sure as hell did not want to change that precedent since it would open up Trump to all kinds of allegations regarding all the horrendous acts he committed before becoming President.

[WomanWhoRoars]

130. However,

Lindsay Wenz alleges he put his hand on her butt in 2010.

[SunSeeker]

132. He's been serving as Minnesota's Senator since 2009. nt

[The_Casual_Observer]

129. I would never put my arm around a woman. It's too easy to

have your arm slip and touch their behind by accident. Anyway it's basically a bad idea.

[WomanWhoRoars]

134. BTW

You can change the dates on FB - just an FYI

[GatoGordo]

138. How does one do that?

I'm not doubting it can be done. But I consider myself to be pretty FB savvy. How can this be done on a timeline, and without an edit history?

[geardaddy]

136. Here's a tweet from her calling for other women to come forward.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwia1Pbn9M3XAhUl5YMKHeEfCUwQ6F4IQTAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FLindsayMenz%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc%255Egoogle%257Ctwcamp%255Eserp%257Ctwgr%255Eauthor&usg=AOvVaw0o5E-A9r45e5RqnMZ3taX-

.@Liz_Wheeler in 2010 @alfranken grabbed me while taking a photo together at the Minnesota State Fair. There have to be many others... don't let this story fade.

Have to be many others?

And it's to Liz Wheeler of One America News Network.

[mainer]

141. She said the photo was taken in a tent. Why is there a house behind them?

It looks like theyre standing in front of a house and garage.
Why is the photo cropped and showing only shoulders.
Why does Al look so bored while she looks so happy?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

142. Interesting

Link to tweet

Is that true they can't find the FB post?

[GatoGordo]

148. The CNN source sounds like they have seen the post.

I don't know how far back FB posts are held. I have only been on FB for about 1.5 years, and I can see my original post. I do know I have seen "flashback" posts from people who have been friends for at least 7 years.

[Cattledog]

147. To do this Franken would have to be dumber than Trump.

In public? In front of her husband? How could he know she wouldn’t cause a scene? Slap him, or scream? He would have to be the stupidest sexual harasser ever.

[brewens]

154. They got caught crying shit wolf with Al once! It's not working this time.

[riverwalker]

157. No one has seen the Facebook posts

I don’t even know if the reporter did or just took her word.

[Jazzgirl]

160. This is a Roger Stone plant.

Supposedly her husband took the picture and saw it but said nothing??? Bull. Shit. This is some propaganda that will ultimately fall through. Just like the Tweeden post. She is just as full of shit is this woman. Pukes have a bad habit of accusing targeted Dems (those they're afraid of) of doing what they do. They just have a hard time proving anything but stir up enough crap to try to make Dems get them to resign and weakens Dems. Pukes never resign. Oh and I will always call them pukes!!!

[Swedish Alicia]

163. Why does he need to remember the photo?

His denial was strange. Instead of denying he said "...and I certainly don't remember taking this picture..."

Why does this matter if he remember or not remember? If he is an man who does not inappropriately touch women then he does not need to remember the specific picture. He can safely say no, I did not touch this women inappropriately. Because he would know he never touches any women inappropriately.

If a reporter asked me if I grabbed Bill's butt during a fair I can safely say no I did not, even though I do not know or remember anyone with the name Bill. Because I know I have never grabbed anyone's butt during a fair. Only during sex and those men I remember. None were Bill.

[Eliot Rosewater]

164. Al tells the truth, period.

[Eliot Rosewater]

166. Bullshit.

Where am I again?

[kwalter66]

168. Overreact much

Assaults? Well then, I hope you never stumble and "assault" someone one trying to catch your balance. Better stay out of places where people are period. It's just too dangerous. You may "assault" someone. You also need to limit your photos with others, wouldn't want you "assaulting" others. You'd have to be persecuted and stripped of everything if that were to happen. And here in lies the problem, extreme reactions. Some completely dismiss any allegation and then there is you, you want a firing squad and total ruin of anyone accused no matter what. Meanwhile, those in middle get to see the entire me too movement go down in flames because there is no in-between, never happened or sting him up right now because EVERYTHING is now assault.

[GatoGordo]

169. New photos show him groping Huffington (New York Post)

in photo shoot.

Granted, this was CLEARLY done as a joke and done JOKINGLY with a friend, but it sets a precedent that Al Franken thinks its FUNNY to grab women.