Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia found with 'a pillow over his head'

[bananas]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Sissyk (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Examiner

The political world was rocked Saturday with news that Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was found dead at a Texas ranch. According to reports, a local judge said he died of natural causes. News of the death prompted some to suggest Scalia may have been the victim of foul play in an effort to ensure a liberal majority on the Supreme Court. Those theories may have gotten a boost from a detail found in a MySanAntonio article updated Sunday, which said Scalia was found with "a pillow over his head."

According to the report, Scalia was a first-time guest to the Cibolo Creek Creek Ranch in west Texas. The report also said he was "animated and engaged during dinner Friday night, as one of three dozen invitees to an event that had nothing to do with law or politics..." Just hours later, he was found dead.

About 8:30 the next morning, John Poindexter, the Houston businessman who owns the sprawling 30,000 acre luxury ranch, tried to wake Scalia, but was unable to. He described Scalia's condition.

"We discovered the judge in bed, a pillow over his head. His bed clothes were unwrinkled," he said. "He was lying very restfully. It looked like he had not quite awakened from a nap."

<snip>

Read more: http://www.examiner.com/article/supreme-court-justice-antonin-scalia-found-with-a-pillow-over-his-head

[bravenak]

1. I do that too

Sleep with the pillow over my head. Damn. Something in common with Scalia.

[nilram]

4. Ditto, sometimes, and if I could travel with my pillows like W did, I would.

That's one of the two things I agree with W on.

[bravenak]

7. Me too. I always get new pillows. Lots of them

[joshcryer]

30. Same here. Drowns out the noise of my fan.

And the pillow is a coolness on my eyes / face.

Just sayin' if I wind up dead, someone on DU probably did it.

[bravenak]

31. Me tooo!!

They killed me too!

[joshcryer]

32. Wanna bet I get a hide?

On this post, because I'm apparently unhinged for saying I'd defend myself against libel? I give myself 70/30 odds at this point.

[bravenak]

35. I hope not

With all of the stuff that passes juries I consider that pretty mild. You know I know how it can be when you become the target of a group of people who just want to tear you down.

[WhoWoodaKnew]

37. I can't go to sleep without a pillow over my head

[bravenak]

38. Me neither. Sometimes I angle two pillows and make it a pillow tent over my face

[Thinkingabout]

54. It is oblivious Scalia did not have a full head of hair, at night is not unusal to place a pillow on

the head to provide warmth to compensate for the lack of hair. Seems some things so simple are missed by so many, CT thinkers needs to think simply in order to arrive at a decent decision.

[patricia92243]

2. I thought he retired early because he said he didn't feel well. People sleep all sorts of ways.

The pillow was over his head - not his face. When I have a headache, I put the pillow over the top of my head.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

53. Retiring 29 years ago would not have been retiring too early. . . nt

[bananas]

3. "We discovered the judge in bed, a pillow over his head. His bed clothes were unwrinkled," said Po

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Texas-ranch-owner-recalls-Scalia-s-last-hours-6830372.php

Cibolo Creek Ranch owner recalls Scalia’s last hours in Texas

By John MacCormack Updated 10:11 pm, Sunday, February 14, 2016

<snip>

"We discovered the judge in bed, a pillow over his head. His bed clothes were unwrinkled," said Poindexter.

<snip>

[diane in sf]

13. wow, there are some real lunatic comments at that link, the basic article is fine...

[valerief]

55. "His bed clothes were unwrinkled." Does he wear linen to bed or what?

[SoCalNative]

83. Bedclothes

refers to the bedding, not what one is wearing in bed.

[Kittycat]

76. I'm not an expert, but...

If he passed from a heart attack, is it feasible to consider that he may have arched and slashed his head around a bit? Depending on his positioning, I can't see why the pillow couldn't push up and flop over rather easily. sometimes I lay on my back, and stand the pillow up against the headboard, too. That would make it easier for it to pop down. Just a thought.

[klook]

5. There were signs of a struggle

with his conscience. Actually, not. This sociopath probably slept like a baby every night of his life.

[mgmaggiemg]

6. and the 24/7/365 conspiracy theories begin

how about the man should have eaten more salads and fewer bacon cheese burgers....? not as sexy?

[Jester Messiah]

51. I was a proponent of buying him as many bacon cheese burgers as he wanted.

It seems the need has now passed, though.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

52. Dayum libruhl bin force-feedin him bacon burgers fur years !!11! . . . nt

[Tien1985]

56. Scalia notwithstanding

If I could make it to 79 with fewer salad and more bacon cheeseburgers, I could die satisfied.

[Dustlawyer]

60. You know Obama did it!

Sarcasm

[thelasthope]

69. lol

[Dustlawyer]

70. Welcome to DU!

[truthisfreedom]

8. Well, there was that 30 years of struggle

With social JUSTICE.

[brett_jv]

9. Gotta love the ol' Faux Nooz 'some people say' ploy ...

As if 'people saying' (whatever bullshit they supposedly 'said') automatically confers legitimacy to the idea.

Next we'll hear something like:

"ZOMG the medical examiner (in Texas, no less) that declared the C.O.D. to be heart attack has a nephew who's schoolmate in college worked on the Harvard Law Review at Harvard when Obama was there!!!11!!!11! So, MURDER, OBZ!!!"

Unless you have some evidence ... please just stop with that 'some say' crap, Examiner. The man was 79 years old and WAY overweight. People like that ... they often just ... ya know ... have heart attacks. Get a damn grip. Take responsibility to report THE ACTUAL NEWS ... seriously. Please.

[thelordofhell]

10. Thanks Obama

[Festivito]

11. Country can afford an autopsy. Easy difference between suffocation and heart attack/stroke. eom

[CanonRay]

26. Doesn't matter

the tin foil people have already got all they need...

[Festivito]

62. Two layers of heavy duty with a thin layer inbetween.

You just can't be too careful111!!!!111!

George Stephanopolous says the family wants no autopsy. Oh my. It might actually get worse.

[NutmegYankee]

49. No amount of facts will correct a Conspiracy Theory once it starts.

Look at those who believe the moon landings were faked, holocaust deniers, or those who think the World Trade centers were imploded. They will reject any fact contrary to their view.

[Festivito]

64. Intelligence has the ability to hold an idea one knows is false.

Some lack this ability -- on both sides of a theory.

[NutmegYankee]

73. Could you clarify that?

Were you talking about confirmation bias or cognitive dissonance?

[Festivito]

79. You mean for me to clarify my notion on intelligence I take it.

That: "Intelligence has the ability to hold an idea one knows is false." Cognitive dissonance might result from being wrong about an idea in light of its reality. At which point one might creatively interpret the reality as in confirmation bias. Each has a component of error that is held tightly. Here it is along with a non-existent or low ability to hold that one of ones own ideas might be wrong. Thereby allowing an idea such as a conspiracy theory to be held so fervently as true that it cannot be relinquished.

I would suggest that the number of such persons would be negligible who would be unable to hold that an idea they hold is wrong. There may be more such people who have certain topics that catch them this way. And, in these cases, showing a parallel might point them to understanding to the point of refuting their once hardened position on a theory you noted would reject any fact. I think we disagree there.

Not that disagreements are bad. They hone our skills.

[NutmegYankee]

81. I was referring to the "Backfire effect".

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/

We see this in politics every day.

[Festivito]

84. Good luck on that. eom

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. The butler did it.....

No doubt he had one too.

[Kelvin Mace]

47. Yep

[jwirr]

59. Had to be the butler - because he is the only one there who

was not a ultra right wing R. This is a party at John Poindexter's house.

[Ghost Dog]

16. No. This one's a "Houston businessman".

More detail here:

http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/tag/john-poindexter/

... The El Paso County medical examiner’s office said they hadn’t received any information regarding the possibility of performing an autopsy.

It took hours for authorities in remote West Texas to find a justice of the peace — Presidio County Judge Cinderela Guevara, who “pronounced Scalia dead of natural causes without seeing the body — which is permissible under Texas law — and without ordering an autopsy.”

Guevara said she had spoken to law enforcement officials at the scene, who assured her “there were no signs of foul play,” as well as Scalia’s physician in Washington, who said that Scalia had suffered from a host of chronic conditions. Guevara is awaiting a statement from Scalia’s doctor that will be added to his death certificate when it is issued later this week. Guevara also said reports that Scalia had died of a heart attack are not true, insisting that “He died of natural causes.”

A manager at the Sunset Funeral Home where Scalia’s body was taken said that his family made it clear they did not want an autopsy.

[pinboy3niner]

17. And Reagan's Poindexter was John M.; the ranch owner is John B.

Reagan's guy was a Navy Admiral. The ranch owner served as an Army Captain in Vietnam and left the service after his tour.

[jpb33]

19. No El Paso autopsy should be done

I put in a post earlier that Scalia was found on the floor as that is what I was told by people from the area. I am from a small town near Marfa (although moved away some time ago). A relative knows the funeral director involved. I have family in Marfa.

Also I love El Paso, but no way would I permit an autopsy to be done there. They have had years of trouble with past medical examiners. This is only one example of issues with past examiners.

http://insurance-technology.tmcnet.com/news/2010/05/27/4812097.htm

http://www.tdcaa.com/node/6542

even thought his guys gone. There are constant issues with the medical examiners office still to this day.

[Ghost Dog]

23. Thanks. There are apparant inconsistencies

in some reporting?

The source I quote (1st page at google) says:

... Around 8:30 the next morning (Saturday), Poindexter went to Scalia’s room to wake him up. The room’s door was locked and Scalia did not answer... Three hours later, Poindexter returned and, in his words, “We discovered the judge in bed, a pillow over his head. Everything was in perfect order. He was in his pajamas, peacefully, in bed. His bed clothes were unwrinkled. He was lying very restfully. It looked like he had not quite awakened from a nap.”

Scalia did not have a pulse and his body was already cold. After consulting with a doctor at a hospital in Alpine, Poindexter concluded resuscitation would have been futile, He then contacted federal authorities, at first encountering a series of answering services because he was calling on a weekend: “Ultimately they became available and handled it superbly. They flew in by helicopter. They told me to secure the ranch, which I did until this morning.”

Scalia’s body was moved to the Sunset Funeral Home in El Paso, about 3 hours away, arriving at around 2:30 a.m. Sunday morning. Spokesman Chris Lujan said the funeral home was chosen by Scalia’s family and at the advice of a family friend...

[jpb33]

20. Corrupt til his last day

Last edited Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:18 AM - Edit history (1)

Scalia lived his last day as he lived most of his adult professional life. Unethically, getting free gifts and services from those who seek favor or access.

“I knocked on the door loudly,” said Mr. Poindexter, who said Justice Scalia and the other guests had been staying at the ranch free for the weekend. “I had him in a very large room — a suite — and I thought he might be in the bathroom.”


They probably also paid for his private plane flight.

[Ghost Dog]

48. .

“Other than being with his family or in church, there’s no place he’d rather be than on a hunt,” said Houston lawyer Mark Lanier, who took Scalia hunting for wild boar, deer and even alligators. Lanier said he first learned of Scalia’s love for hunting through former Supreme Court justice Sandra Day O’Connor. “He’ll do anything if you take him hunting,” Lanier recalled O’Connor saying...

/... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/texas-tv-station-scalia-died-of-a-heart-attack/2016/02/14/938e2170-d332-11e5-9823-02b905009f99_story.html

[nichomachus]

85. Except, according to Poindexter he didn't go hunting with the others. n/t

[JudyM]

65. He "suffered from a host of chronic conditions"... Where do we begin...?! Nt

[jtuck004]

15. Did it match his robe? n/t

[Orrex]

18. I blame Vince Foster.

Last edited Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:23 AM - Edit history (1)

[joshcryer]

33. +1

[Lodestar]

21. Yeah, there's a professional job. After smothering him leave the pillow over his head.

Read somewhere he had visited with his doctor before he left for this trip.
I imagine we'll hear more about that soon enough.

[jberryhill]

22. Seriously

Yeah, someone suffocated him with a pillow...and forgot to remove the pillow. Sure.

[winter is coming]

27. But they straightened the bedclothes. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

29. His bedclothes were "unwrinkled" so clearly

someone had to have ironed those bedclothes and used heavy starch.

Some killers are OCD apparently.

[JudyM]

63. LOL!

[greymouse]

24. The NYTimes report

doesn't say anything about a pillow: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/15/us/ranch-owner-recalls-finding-justice-antonin-scalias-body.html

in any event, if someone is suffocated, I think the blood vessels in the eyes break, at least in various murder mysteries I've read. Even if the local medical people are incompetent, someone would see this.

Yet more crazed conspiracy theories.

[IDemo]

25. WaPo playing it for all it's worth (so unlike them)

The death of Antonin Scalia: Chaos, confusion and conflicting reports

--as details of Scalia’s sudden death trickled in Sunday, it appeared that the hours afterward were anything but orderly. The man known for his elegant legal opinions and profound intellect was found dead in his room at a hunting resort by the resort’s owner, who grew worried when Scalia didn’t appear at breakfast Saturday morning.

It then took hours for authorities in remote West Texas to find a justice of the peace, officials said Sunday. When they did, Presidio County Judge Cinderela Guevara pronounced Scalia dead of natural causes without seeing the body — which is permissible under Texas law — and without ordering an autopsy.

As official Washington tried to process what his demise means for politics and the law, some details of Scalia’s final hours remained opaque. As late as Sunday afternoon, for example, there were conflicting reports about whether an autopsy should have been performed. A manager at the El Paso funeral home where Scalia’s body was taken said that his family made it clear they did not want one.

One of two other officials who were called but couldn’t get to Scalia’s body in time said that she would have made a different decision on the autopsy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/texas-tv-station-scalia-died-of-a-heart-attack/2016/02/14/938e2170-d332-11e5-9823-02b905009f99_story.html

[joshcryer]

34. WaPo has become a clickbait site.

Pathetic. To think, a year ago we loved them. Now, they're a pathetic clickbait site.

[houston16revival]

28. Conspiracy Theories

Unless or until there is evidence of death by unnatural causes, conspiracy
theories are just conspiracies themselves.

The idea that the remote home of a wealthy Texan is insecure to that
extent just has no credibility in my mind.

As for the political consequences, they are unpredictable, and any responsible
party on either side would be loath to go that route.

That doesn't mean Obama won't be blamed. It's ALL a conspiracy to deprive
conservatives of what they want, isn't it? (with sarcasm)

[Frustratedlady]

36. Article taken down? Not available when I try. eom

[bravenak]

39. The link died

Like Scalia

[Arugula Latte]

71. The link has a pillow over it.

Coincidence?

[LannyDeVaney]

40. I've decided to encourage their conspiracy theories ...

Make them all paranoid. "You're right, Obama is killing folks who disagree with them. I forwarded him your latest Facebook rant last night. Sweet dreams."

[Dopers_Greed]

43. +1000

[2naSalit]

46. +1

[Zorro]

61. Hillary had him killed

That's a more plausible Republican conspiracy theory.

[Martak Sarno]

41. Single Pillow Theory

The single-pillow theory (or magic-pillow theory, as it is commonly called by Murdoch's Faux Media) was introduced by Faux News in its investigation of the natural causes death of Supine Court Justice Antonin Scalia to explain what happened with the pillow that was found on the face of Scalia but didn’t wrinkle his clothes! Given the lack of damage to the bed, Scalia’s clothing and face consistent with (his face) having been covered by a very low-velocity Plush Acme Luxury Down Pillow and the fact that No One else was in the room or asleep or was lying next to or on top of the Supine Court Justice, the Commission concluded only one, self positioned pillow was likely covering the face of the Expired Justice who seemed to be enjoying a good night’s sleep.

(Just in case....pure sarcasm)

[dembotoz]

42. cause he heard liberals sleep with the head ON the pillow

[skepticscott]

44. Yes, someone smothered him with a pillow

with the specific intention of making it look like a natural death, and then left the fucking pillow on his face. Could the teabaggers get any more idiotic?

[Kelvin Mace]

45. My "theory" of his death

and why it's so mysterious (no autopsy, declared dead over the phone):

Auto-erotic asphyxiation.

After all, there is no evidence that it didn't happen.

[Myrina]

50. Auto-erotic asphyxia?

Gawd would it be hilarious if it was discovered that Tony was a closet freak.

[valerief]

57. A pillowcase over his head, huh? I always knew it!

[mockmonkey]

58. Pillows can be very dangerous in the wrong hands

[vkkv]

66. Coroners would know a death of asphyxiation vs. heart attack.__________ n/t

[olddots]

67. we are all still trying to figure out the mystery

surrounding the death of Spinal Tap's second drummer ......

[Eatacig]

68. John Poindexter?

Is the owner of this ranch the John Poindexter of the Iran Contra days?

[Bangbangdem]

72. Wait... John Poindexter?

Not the same guy, right?

[Kittycat]

75. I wondered the same thing.

[Bangbangdem]

78. It is!

Okay. That's crazy.

[LiberalElite]

77. see posts #16 and 17 nt

[olddad56]

74. Perhaps he was offed by the Bush crime family or the Kochs

in an effort to sway the election toward the conservatives, not the liberals.

just a guess

[NoAssumptionsPls]

80. Different Poindexter

Apparently this Poindexter was a Democratic donor...

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2016/02/details-in-flux-in-death-of-justice-scalia/

[kentauros]

82. So, would that have been a good Texan with a pillow

versus a bad guy without a pillow?

[Sunlei]

86. how much did he drink & who was 'his friend' that was with the owner when they entered the room?

[titaniumsalute]

87. ...and a ball gag??

[Sissyk]

88. Locking.

Dead link.