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Thu May 17, 2012, 04:02 PM

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting

Last edited Fri May 18, 2012, 11:36 AM - Edit history (3)

Source: ABC News

Two police reports written the night that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin said that Zimmerman had a bloody face and nose, according to police reports made public today.

The reports also note that two witness accounts appear to back up Zimmerman's version of what happened when they describe a man on his back with another person wearing a hoodie straddling him and throwing punches.

It has been such a contentious case that even the evidence is being disputed.

The police report states that Trayvon Martin's father told an investigator after listening to 911 tapes that captured a man's voice frantically callling for help that it was not his son calling for help.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852&singlePage=true



Previous title: "Trayvon Martin Had Drugs in System, Autopsy Found" - now ABC has shoved the THC fact very far down in the article.

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Reply Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting (Original post)
alp227 May 2012 OP
Skittles May 2012 #1
CreekDog May 2012 #2
yurbud May 2012 #82
Roland99 May 2012 #3
Hoyt May 2012 #4
notadmblnd May 2012 #5
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #6
Dont call me Shirley May 2012 #7
grasswire May 2012 #8
NOLALady May 2012 #20
azurnoir May 2012 #9
Meiko May 2012 #31
azurnoir May 2012 #35
Travelman May 2012 #73
Solomon May 2012 #79
Travelman May 2012 #84
Ian David May 2012 #10
XemaSab May 2012 #11
Politicalboi May 2012 #12
Scairp May 2012 #86
WCGreen May 2012 #87
fascisthunter May 2012 #13
24601 May 2012 #21
brush May 2012 #29
24601 May 2012 #85
fascisthunter May 2012 #36
Cali_Democrat May 2012 #14
Canuckistanian May 2012 #15
DaveJ May 2012 #16
benld74 May 2012 #17
stonecutter357 May 2012 #18
slackmaster May 2012 #19
SkatmanRoth May 2012 #22
zeemike May 2012 #23
Scout May 2012 #24
slackmaster May 2012 #25
Woody Woodpecker May 2012 #26
Lost-in-FL May 2012 #27
JI7 May 2012 #28
frylock May 2012 #39
CreekDog May 2012 #48
uppityperson May 2012 #55
slackmaster May 2012 #57
uppityperson May 2012 #70
JitterbugPerfume May 2012 #30
kestrel91316 May 2012 #32
slackmaster May 2012 #33
kestrel91316 May 2012 #34
slackmaster May 2012 #56
classykaren May 2012 #37
obamanut2012 May 2012 #47
Travelman May 2012 #74
AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #38
JustABozoOnThisBus May 2012 #81
Cass May 2012 #40
Moses2SandyKoufax May 2012 #41
-..__... May 2012 #51
CreekDog May 2012 #83
unkachuck May 2012 #42
TomClash May 2012 #43
Rhiannon12866 May 2012 #44
alp227 May 2012 #49
Rhiannon12866 May 2012 #54
obamanut2012 May 2012 #45
Odin2005 May 2012 #46
6000eliot May 2012 #50
Evasporque May 2012 #75
Nine May 2012 #52
Blue_Tires May 2012 #59
Boabab May 2012 #53
Blue_Tires May 2012 #61
BigD_95 May 2012 #58
Blue_Tires May 2012 #60
BigD_95 May 2012 #62
Blue_Tires May 2012 #64
NoGOPZone May 2012 #63
Blue_Tires May 2012 #65
neohippie May 2012 #67
Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #68
L0oniX May 2012 #69
Blue_Tires May 2012 #77
wordpix May 2012 #66
The Stranger May 2012 #71
slackmaster May 2012 #72
neohippie May 2012 #78
The Stranger May 2012 #80
magical thyme May 2012 #76

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:04 PM

1. again: so?

he was minding his own business when he was attacked by a gun-toting, stalking THUG

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:04 PM

2. okay but THC and violence?

um, not really.

besides, it stays in your system for a month.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #2)

Fri May 18, 2012, 03:23 PM

82. THC would make him want to bum some chips off someone not attack them.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:04 PM

3. Soo...he'd smoked pot, got the munchies for Skittles

and then threatened a random person out of nowhere, beat him to a pulp (according to said random stranger) and got himself shot "out of defense" in the process?


I.

Don't.

Fucking.

Think.

So.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:05 PM

4. Unfortunately, we don't know what Zimmerman was on, other than a power rush.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:06 PM

5. Oh my, he smoked a joint sometime in the last 30 days before he was murdered

So I'm sure he deserved to die

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:06 PM

6. Thc tests positive for up to 30 days.

 

And so fucking what?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:06 PM

7. Wow, he smoked some pot. If zimmerman would have he would have been more mellow,

posssibly saving Trayvon's life.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:07 PM

8. error in the story?

"The teen, who lived in Miami, was in Sanford while serving a suspension for a bag of marijuana being discovered in his possession."

Wasn't it just residue?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #8)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:42 PM

20. Yeah.

Empty bag with residue.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:11 PM

9. So Trayvon was drug tested but Zimmerman was not

what's wrong with this picture?

and they found THC in Trayvon's system well stop the presses OMG and such like

one can only wonder what they would have found in Zimmerman's system

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #9)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:14 PM

31. Trayvons test was SOP

 

for an autopsy especially when you have a homicide investigation. I have no idea why Zimmerman wasn't tested. He had a prescription for a couple of drugs didn't he?

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Response to Meiko (Reply #31)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:39 PM

35. Don't know about Zimmerman and 'scripts but you'd think

a drug test would also be SOP for someone who had just killed another person

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #35)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:20 PM

73. Fourth Amendment

The police would have to have probable cause to get a warrant to perform a drug test on Zimmerman. If he was not showing any overt signs of being impaired/intoxicated (slurring, smell of alcohol in the case of alcohol, glassy eyes, etc.) then they would not be able to get a test even if they wanted to. I've read, as far as I can tell, every police report, etc. out there attached to this case (that has been made public, anyway), and I have never seen any indication by any of the police officers involved that they had any cause to think that Zimmerman was impaired.

As such, no drug test.

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Response to Travelman (Reply #73)

Fri May 18, 2012, 02:46 PM

79. Nice try, but someone else reported Florida law in another thread that says if you

wind up killing someone, for whatever reason, you gotta be drug tested. If holding a smoking gun over a dead teenager is not probable cause, then there's no such thing as probable cause.

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Response to Solomon (Reply #79)

Fri May 18, 2012, 04:29 PM

84. This I'd like to see

I've scoured high and low to find the proof that this is "standard procedure" as many have called it. EVERY cop I've talked to (and that's actually quite a few homicide investigators, due to the nature of my work) has, to a person, told me that if they were the one working the case, with the information that was available (which they all agreed was not nearly a complete picture at all), they would not have even tried to get a warrant, and that they would never, EVER do a test without a warrant for fear it would be thrown out of court.

Is there a link to this post somewhere?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:12 PM

10. A 17 year-old who smokes pot? Who ever heard of such a thing?



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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:12 PM

11. KILL HIM WITH FIRE!

Along with the other 50% of Americans who admit to pot use!!11!!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:12 PM

12. Where's Zimmerman's drug test?

 

This has no relevance in this. So what.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #12)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:39 PM

86. We will not get one either

I'd say test his hair but since his head is shaved you cannot get a drug analysis from him, ever. Very convenient for him. And I didn't know that being a teenager who had smoked pot at some point in the previous 30 days was a capital offense. Sorry, I guess we let Mr. Zimmerman get on with his life, armed and chasing young black men who happen to walk down the street in his neighborhood looking "suspicious". And wearing hoodies. Why don't they save this stuff for court? I don't understand why so much is being made public by the authorities. They are going to have to move this trial, and even then I don't know how they will ever find a jury who hasn't been inundated with stories on this case. It will be a challenge to get a verdict.

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Response to Scairp (Reply #86)

Fri May 18, 2012, 10:07 PM

87. Pubic hair

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:18 PM

13. I've Never Seen the MSM go to such lengths to cover a murder's ass

oh wait... George Bush, Cheney, Kissinger, etc.... never mind.

If pot was what he smoked, it is now harder to believe Trayvon initiated any fight. You do not become violent under the influence of pot.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #13)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:51 PM

21. I notice you left out President Obama. Like me, you must be OK with him targeting

US Citizens with hellfire missiles.

Keep up the good work.

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Response to 24601 (Reply #21)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:11 PM

29. WTF

What the he ll are you going on about? The thread is Martin having THC in his system, aka pot, the mellowing, non-violent drug.

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Response to brush (Reply #29)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:15 PM

85. Please read post #13 - to which I replied.

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Response to 24601 (Reply #21)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:54 PM

36. whatever you say coockoo bird

don't quit your day job, unless this is it

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:22 PM

14. A lot of kids smoke weed in high school

 

This means nothing and has nothing to do with the incident that night.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:25 PM

15. Ah, "Reefer madness"

That explains it.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:29 PM

16. Over half of high schoolers probably would fail a THC drug test

Give me a break.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:40 PM

17. I'll never smoke weed with WIllie again,,,,,

Attacking someone while he has THC in his system? Really defense, that all u got? With ALL the crap your guy did in the past?



CAPITAL b CAPITAL s.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:41 PM

18. Full Ignore

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 04:42 PM

19. OH TEH NOES! MARRY-JEW-WANNA, TEH KILLER DRUGZ!

 

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:07 PM

22. But for the War on Drugs, THC would be a non-issue

The War on Drugs now indirectly claims another victim. I've been told the Government is here to serve the people. What I am at a loss to understand is why the people let the Government force us to abide by the War on Drugs, The Department of Homeland Security, and the Patriot Act.

These Government policies has turn us into suspicious, armed vigilantes who shoot strangers walking through the neighborhood.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:07 PM

23. Yep they are going to let him skate on this

And this was predicted by many here.
There will be a steady drip drip of information coming out and they will never mention the other evidence like witnesses at all...soon the waters will be muddied enough for the judge to dismiss it all.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:10 PM

24. even *if* he had just smoked a joint, THC is not associated

with aggressive, violent behavior.

and, he could have smoked or otherwise consumed pot for the last time loooong before the night he was killed.

besides, he's the victim; he's the one who is dead, i don't see why it matters if he did have THC in his system.

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Response to Scout (Reply #24)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:38 PM

25. The problem for the prosecution is that the finding validates something Zimmerman said in his call

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:52 PM

26. Zimmerman is still the murderer.

 

Once he left his car, all presumptions of SYG falls under Martin, not Zimmerman.

And it doesn't matter what Zimmerman says - because he could easily be lying to the police dispatcher on what happened.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:59 PM

27. Zimmerman is not the police officer or the community watch-person at that time...

his statement is irrelevant.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:03 PM

28. Zimmerman sounded like he was on drugs in those calls, did he get tested ?

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:06 PM

39. what are zimmerman's qualifications for determining whether someone is "on drugs or something?"

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:26 PM

48. I don't see anything proving that Martin was a "f---- coon", do you?

or are you cherry picking the report to find something that's true?

on the premise that liars lie 100% of the time?

fascinating level of naivete.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:23 AM

55. Nope. Read this bit. "such a low level...would have played no role in Martin's behavior..."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2018232093_apusneighborhoodwatch.html
Martin's autopsy indicated that medical examiners found THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, when they tested Martin's blood and urine. The amount described in the autopsy report is such a low level that it would have played no role in Martin's behavior, said Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York.

"This kind of level can be seen days after somebody smokes," Kobilinsky said. "If it comes up in the case, I would be surprised. It wouldn't benefit the defense, it wouldn't benefit the prosecution, and if the defense tried to bring it up, the judge would keep it out."

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #55)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:09 AM

57. I'm not saying that it could have made any difference in TM's behavior.

 

I'm saying the mere mention of an illegal drug will influence how the trial goes, if there is a trial.

It also doesn't make life any easier for Trayvon's parents.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #57)

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:58 AM

70. If it didn't affect his behavior, he wouldn't look "like he's on drugs" is my point.

The problem for the prosecution is that the finding validates something Zimmerman said in his call

Second sentence.

"This guy looks like he's up to no good, like he's on drugs or something."

Knowing your dead son had smoked some pot in the last 3 months I bet falls way down in difficulty dealing with for Tray's parents than having him killed.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:13 PM

30. and what the hell has that got to do with anything?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:18 PM

32. Argues AGAINST his being the aggressor.

 

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #32)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:22 PM

33. Not to cast asparagus on a region or state, but do you really expect Florida jurors to know that?

 

I don't.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #33)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:35 PM

34. Well, anyone who has ever used pot will be thrown off the jury by the prosecution, so

 

I suppose the jury they wind up with will be clueless.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #34)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:08 AM

56. Exactly. Also, hopefully, anyone who thinks it makes black men rape white women.

 

But there is no guarantee.

I'm just lamenting that although it really makes no difference, the perceptions and prejudices that people have will make the prosecution's job more difficult.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:55 PM

37. Zimmerman did have drugs in his system

I live in Florida they announced on the news Zimmerman had adderal and a sleeping medication in his system.

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Response to classykaren (Reply #37)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:25 PM

47. So he was all cranked out on speed

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Response to classykaren (Reply #37)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:25 PM

74. With no drug test, how can that be known?

I think this is probably inaccurate information. We know from his doctor's statement that he had an Rx for these drugs, but that doesn't mean that he had any in his system at the time of the shooting.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:05 PM

38. Grass makes people aggressive? Who knew?

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #38)

Fri May 18, 2012, 03:15 PM

81. Well, if you're standing between me and that plate of cookies ...

I'm sure it makes a few people aggressive. Not me, I just get sorta catatonic. I might be to lethargic to bother reaching for the cookies.

But still, not worth shooting anybody over.



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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:53 PM

40. Trayvon was pursued and attacked by an armed guy - he had a right to defend himself.

From Trayvon's perspective Zimmerman was a strange man following him, harassing him and looking to start trouble. The injuries to Zimmerman simply prove that Trayvon attempted to defend himself against a threat to his life.

I'm finding it pretty hard to get worked up about some pot in Trayvon's system. Its not a justification for killing him. We all know he was simply walking home minding his own business when this raging nut came out of nowhere and attacked him. Whether he smoked a joint at some point prior to that is irrelevant.

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Response to Cass (Reply #40)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:13 PM

41. So a paranoid, racist, gun-toting 28 year old

with a history of violence and criminal behavior is viewed by a significant portion of society as LESS threatening than a black 17 year old with no history of violence?!

Post-racial America indeed

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Response to Cass (Reply #40)

Thu May 17, 2012, 10:08 PM

51. No... it doesn't prove anything.

 

From Trayvon's perspective Zimmerman was a strange man following him, harassing him and looking to start trouble. The injuries to Zimmerman simply prove that Trayvon attempted to defend himself against a threat to his life.


As of right now, no one here knows when, where, how and more importantly by whom any perceived threat and contact initiated any response in between the time Zimmerman lost visual contact with Martin and a scuffle ensued.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #51)

Fri May 18, 2012, 03:27 PM

83. you took a harder line with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. than with George Zimmerman

and only one of them actually shot an unarmed kid.

hmmm.

priorities and biases.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:33 PM

42. justice American style....

 

....when all is said and done, they're going to magically turn the victim into the perpetrator....

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:43 PM

43. It is obvious that

POT makes one an aggressor! Free Zimmerman now.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:56 PM

44. The title and article don't match the one at the link:

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #44)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:40 PM

49. fixed.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #49)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:20 AM

54. Thank you so much! K&R!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:20 PM

45. Trace amount of THC -- big frigging deal

What did Zimmerman have in his system?

And, how does Trayvon getting stoned, or being around some stoners, a week or two or three earlier have anything to do with him being murdered???

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:23 PM

46. Character assasination!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

50. How can the aggressor claim self defense?

That is the ONLY pertinent question.

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Response to 6000eliot (Reply #50)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:41 PM

75. ding ding ding

ZImmerman sought out confrontation, tracked Martin down against dispatcher request, shot and killed an innocent person after provoking a self defense confrontation....

2nd degree...Zimmerman started and finished it.

Had Zimmerman not followed and approached Martin in a threatening enough manner to provoke defense, would Martin still of confronted him....

Martin was not doing anything and Zimmerman was not authorized to stalk him and confront him.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 10:28 PM

52. Nice unbiased headline

No need for a trial. ABC News has the case all sewn up. Everyone can go home now.

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Response to Nine (Reply #52)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:48 AM

59. ABC has been trying to sew this up for awhile

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:12 AM

53. Why is the 'mainstream media' covering for a murderer

and directing a stream of character assassinations against the innocent victim?

The gun lobby isn't that powerful, is it? Does this blatantly biased coverage have to do with GZ's roots?

Racial bias continues to be a huge problem in this country, but you'd think that the media might have some sympathy towards an innocent child who was killed in cold blood, or empathy toward his family.

Apparently, there's none of that.

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Response to Boabab (Reply #53)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:57 AM

61. some good points here:

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:19 AM

58. I dont get this obsession with this case

 

and the lengths to which people will continue to say Zimmerman is guilty with out the trial.


The more evidence that comes out it looks more and more like Zimmerman story is true. Its like people were all outraged & marching around all because a black teenage was shot by what appeared to be a white guy & the police did nothing. Now its like the police/DA were forced to press charges for what will be a case that will be thrown out or Zimmerman will get off.

People should just admit they jumped into this too quick. Look at the pictures

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting-details/

It was obvious that Zimmerman was attacked. Also Zimmerman didn't hit him back. Martin had no marks from being attacked.


Evidence: Zimmerman:

" His back was wet and soiled, as if he'd been in grass."

This proves that Zimmerman was on his back with Martin on top. The pictures prove that Zimmerman's story about getting his head slammed into the ground are true. Also the broken nose that police statements said looked like was broken that night.



Also

" And on one 911 call, placed by a neighbor, a police sergeant counted one man yelling "help!" or "help me!" 14 times in a span of 38 seconds.
Who was yelling? When the 911 calls were later played back for him and he was asked if they were from his son, an emotional Tracy Martin "quietly responded 'no'.""


I think Martins own dad could tell if it was his son or not that was yelling help.


Martin was a problem teenage:

"Yet by that winter night, he'd been there for seven days, after being suspended for the third time from Dr. Michael M. Krop High School in Miami, in this instance, for 10 days after drug residue was found in his backpack, according to records obtained by the Miami Herald."


Does this mean he should have been killed? Hell no! But it shows what kind of kid he was and what kind of mind set he had. Which to me shows that he could have started attacking Zimmerman when he was being followed.


This whole thing sucks and Martin should not have lost his life. But Zimmerman probably did act in self defense. Or at least with accordance with the law. Right now the witch hunt is anyway to try and convict Zimmerman because of all the people in the streets protesting. I thought we didn't live by mob rules anymore.

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Response to BigD_95 (Reply #58)

Fri May 18, 2012, 08:55 AM

60. If you don't get the "obsession", then you've clearly never known the distinct pleasure of

Walking/Driving/Breathing while Black...Zimmerman was still the aggressor here, and he was the first one to commit a criminal act...

And it took national media pressure for the police to even pretend to investigate at first...

"Martin was a problem teenager?" Zimmerman was a screw-up and wasn't exactly an upstanding model citizen himself

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #60)

Fri May 18, 2012, 09:04 AM

62. really?

 

***d he was the first one to commit a criminal act... ***



what was the criminal act he committed? Unless he didnt shoot him in self defense and even then it sounds like he was assaulted first. So what criminal act did he commit?

Zimmerman is with in his rights to follow who ever he wants as long as he doesnt impose on that persons rights. If he thinks a guy looks odd and follows him to see where he goes while the police are coming. He has that right.



**If you don't get the "obsession", then you've clearly never known the distinct pleasure of

Walking/Driving/Breathing while Black***

and dont give me that crap line. Black teens & adults are murdered everyday. Some by police themselves. I dont see people marching all over for them. I get no life should be cut short.

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Response to BigD_95 (Reply #62)

Fri May 18, 2012, 09:57 AM

64. ok...I'll play

I could say Zimmerman is guilty of whatever law Florida has on the books against stalking/intimidation/harassment in addition to knowingly making a false 911 call, and violating Martin's civil rights...And why did he even follow someone who wasn't committing a crime in the first place? Care to answer that one if you can??

Good to know you see racial profiling as a "crap line" -- Lets me know exactly where you're coming from and where you stand...After all, we won't be followed/stopped/frisked if we're not doing anything wrong, right??

And thanks for advancing the "black men are shot dead on the street everyday, so what's one more?" meme, as if I don't hear that everyday where I live...And for the record, nine times out of ten when an innocent black teen ends up dead at the hands of police or a concerned citizen, they're always able to explain it away because he was a nobody or a drug addict or had a criminal record, etc...So they usually get away with it and nary a person asks a question...

That's why this case has put such a great bug up the ass of the media and suburban America -- It doesn't fit the official, pre-defined narrative and it's impossible to resonate in their minds that Martin was completely innocent... "But he must have been doing SOMETHING to deserve it!" they all cry as they grasp at straws...Young black male+walking alone at night in a gated community+hooded sweatshirt = Hardcore hustler/dealer/gangbanger; and they don't like situations that fuck with that equation... The hardcore gun-nutters, who I'm pretty sure are responsible for sending a troll army to DU, are up in arms (heh) because their constitutional right to perforate without question anyone who looks suspicious is being challenged (remember the equation)...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #60)

Fri May 18, 2012, 09:36 AM

63. Ironic, isn't it?

Martin's background is a cause for concern, Zimmerman's arrest record evidently isn't.

Martin's prints were run by police in an effort to ID him. They weren't in the database. That's evidence he was never in serious trouble with the law.

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #63)

Fri May 18, 2012, 10:04 AM

65. They don't have a leg to stand on and they know it

Their only hope is to distort the issue to the point where the casual observer gets too confused to care

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Response to BigD_95 (Reply #58)

Fri May 18, 2012, 10:52 AM

67. There is evidence that conflicts with Zimmerman's account

If you read this story... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-case-shadowed-by-police-missteps.html

First of all there is evidence that conflicts with Zimmerman's account of the story.

Martin's girlfriends testimony is that she heard over the phone, Zimmerman say to Martin What are you doing here? and she heard Martin respond with Why are you following me?, this differs with Zimmerman's account of being jumped from behind, and then sucker punched in the face and jumped on while Martin held his hand over his mouth and held him down, reaching for his gun, while repeatedly hitting him and bashing his head into the concrete....

That account by Zimmerman, doesn't really add up to the one small scratch on Martin's knuckles, had he beaten him that badly surely his knuckles would have more damage, however it does add up to maybe a single punch by Martin that probably infuriated Zimmerman enough to fire his gun. There is more evidence that needs to be released before we can detemine what else may have occurred.

Secondly there were conflicting reports that night, as to who was screaming for help etc... and the neighborhood was not canvassed completely as Martin was shot just 70 yards from the house he was trying to get back to and had the police knocked on that door they would then have realized that Martin wasn't the prowler that they and Zimmerman thought he was.


Also, We know that Martin, was aware he was being followed, by Zimmerman in a white vehicle and that Martin went as far as to circle the vehicle staring at Zimmerman. and then in fear he fled, running away to avoid a confrontation, which demonstrates that he fulfilled his requirement in self defense to try to avoid the aggressor, If Zimmerman would have stayed in his car, as he was advised to do that would have been the end of any confrontation right there, but he clearly not afraid gets out of the car and pursues Martin, after being asked not to and acknowledging that advise with an okay...


At that point, Zimmerman had incorrectly profiled Martin, as one of the black teenagers breaking into houses, and assumed that he had no right to be in the gated community when he in fact had been staying there as a guest.

We know that Martin fled in the direction of the house he was staying in, but we still do not know if Martin, was grabbed or attempted to be detained by Zimmerman, as there are NO witnesses who said that they saw the beginning of the confrontation.


You say we don't live by mob rules anymore, but isn't Zimmerman taking justice into his own hands just that?

He was wrong as we now know that the Police felt that Martin was not committing any crime, he was aggressively pursued both by an unknown man in a vehicle and then later after trying to flee from his stalker, after the thought he got away, he is surprised by Zimmerman again, in the dark area behind the apartments, if I was surprised by someone, I might try to defend myself too, we don't know a lot of things because the Sanford police department, made many mistakes, on the night of the initial investigation, because they also felt like this was a clear case of a criminal getting caught but I'm sure that once that they realized that Martin, was a guest in the community and had every right to walk home, that they didn't feel so good about justice being served, and in fact the Police Chief has stated that what Zimmerman did was wrong, people are not supposed to try and do the job of the police, that is mob justice is it not?

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Response to BigD_95 (Reply #58)

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:18 AM

68. "Martin had no marks from being attacked."

I was tempted to make a very saracastic, snippy response to this statement.

Instead, I'll just let you sit on it and think about what is very wrong, logically, about that statement.

Think about it....think about it....think about it.....

Has the light bulb popped up yet?

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Response to BigD_95 (Reply #58)

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:37 AM

69. Mob mentality.

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #69)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:34 PM

77. Funny you mention that...

Southern history is full of stories of a certain "mob" and the type of justice they would mete out to "certain" kinds of people...

Maybe Zimmerman was just born in the wrong era...

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2012, 10:41 AM

66. If I was being followed by a stranger at night I'd fight him, too, if he got close enough

So even IF Trayvon threw some hard punches martial arts style, he may have thinking it was either that or get robbed/killed himself.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:10 PM

71. So can you start a fight, then when you start losing that fight, use deadly force . . .

. . . under Florida law?

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #71)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:13 PM

72. No, that is not true and I don't believe anyone is claiming so

 

It appears the defense will be that Trayvon started the fight, and that he did so without reasonable justification.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #71)

Fri May 18, 2012, 02:16 PM

78. Apparently in Florida the laws are confusing

Here is an excerpt from Florida law that someone else posted in another thread about this same subject.



776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

I am not sure what this says, it looks like the initial aggressor can use justification as a defense if they believe that they are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, but then it also says other than use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant... so it's not really clear, any lawyers want to try an interpret this law?

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Response to neohippie (Reply #78)

Fri May 18, 2012, 02:59 PM

80. I had thought that they removed the requirement that the aggressor withdraw.

Thanks for posting this.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:17 PM

76. and 2 witnesses make it a hate crime

 

One heard someone yell "I've got a gun. I've got a gun. Take my gun away from me."

Another is adamant that there was no fighting going on when the gunshot went off.

Plus one witnesses saw two men chasing each other and described the location. That witness couldn't see details of the men, but described it as a chase, not following. I.e., running, which fits with Trayvon's girlfriend describing Trayvon as out of breath when he stopped trying to escape. It sort of makes Zimmerman clearly an aggressor.

And yet another witness saw a neighbor she couldn't identify ask a person lying on his back if he needed help and the person on his back said "Call 911." Seconds later, after she moved to a different room and window, she heard the pop of the gunshot.

Those 4 witnesses combined describe a scene in which Zimmerman chased Martin down until Martin was out of breath and turned to confront him. They got into a fight and with Martin clearly winning and Zimmerman crying for help, Martin stopped punching and asked if he needed help. Zimmerman told him to call 911 and then grabbed his gun, taunted him to try and take it away and then shot him.

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