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Raine1967

(11,590 posts)
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 04:38 PM Oct 2015

Hillary Clinton Comes Out Against TPP

Source: Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton came out against the Trans-Pacific Partnership Wednesday, breaking with President Barack Obama on the 12-nation trade deal that is set to become a key part of his legacy.

"As of today, I am not in favor of what I have learned about it," Clinton told Judy Woodruff of PBS "Newshour."

"I have said from the very beginning that we had to have a trade agreement that would create good American jobs, raise wages and advance our national security. And I still believe that's the high bar we have to meet," she said. "I have been trying to learn as much as I can about the agreement. But I'm worried. I'm worried about currency manipulation not being part of the agreement. We've lost American jobs to the manipulations that countries, particularly in Asia, have engaged in. I'm worried the pharmaceutical companies may have gotten more benefits -- and patients and consumers fewer. I think there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Progressives have been pushing Clinton for months to take a position on TPP, since Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley (D), two of her rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination, came out against it long ago.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-tpp_56157832e4b0fad1591a9289

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Hillary Clinton Comes Out Against TPP (Original Post) Raine1967 Oct 2015 OP
That will be one interesting vote in February 2016. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #1
Flip Flop Flashback ram2008 Oct 2015 #2
We've just seen the flip. We'll see the flop if she gets the nomination. merrily Oct 2015 #64
Hillary haters complaining in 3, 2, 1... winstars Oct 2015 #3
or... retrowire Oct 2015 #5
You just be quiet and march your SoapBox Oct 2015 #8
At least she's predictable! SoapBox Oct 2015 #6
or... riversedge Oct 2015 #9
Use of "Haters?" Check. naming possible arguments as if doing so invalidates them magically? dogknob Oct 2015 #15
She hasn't been privy to what was in it Control-Z Oct 2015 #17
Any mook with a search engine has been privy to a lot of what's in it. Jim Lane Oct 2015 #30
Yeah, because leaked docs Control-Z Oct 2015 #32
And we been allowed.... daleanime Oct 2015 #42
The leaks were not denied. I suspect we'll now learn that they were fairly close to the final. Jim Lane Oct 2015 #54
frrankly DonCoquixote Oct 2015 #60
Shame on you for not capitalizing Mook's name! merrily Oct 2015 #66
I was standing in solidarity with the DUers who do not have a "caps friendly" keyboard. Jim Lane Oct 2015 #69
es verdad, mi hermano, venceremos merrily Oct 2015 #70
Hating Two Faced Politicians billhicks76 Oct 2015 #20
Wondering if all the Hillary lovers who argued in support of the TPP will flip as well.. raindaddy Oct 2015 #23
I'm not a hater, but it is too late Auggie Oct 2015 #24
We'll take it as a positive. ozone_man Oct 2015 #41
Stomp out bullying from those who follow HRC's methodology of accusing anyone who doesn't 24601 Oct 2015 #50
Can we help it if WE are paying attention? nt artislife Oct 2015 #52
Which one of those would actually be false again? merrily Oct 2015 #65
well, duh. Hiraeth Oct 2015 #4
If Hillary came out against it now... SandersDem Oct 2015 #7
+1 OrwellwasRight Oct 2015 #39
Or it a done deal.... daleanime Oct 2015 #43
I tend to this is correct, saddly. nt artislife Oct 2015 #53
Or a candidate who is making her seem somewhat more evitable is against it. merrily Oct 2015 #67
Again, She's The Last Horse Out Of The Barn! It's A Distubing Pattern With Her! NonMetro Oct 2015 #10
Even though she's been helping negotiate it?? Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #11
I have my doubts too but her involvement did end 2 1/2 years ago. There have been many pampango Oct 2015 #12
Perhaps the fix is in... Bubzer Oct 2015 #14
She had been. Control-Z Oct 2015 #18
This is from 2013 artislife Oct 2015 #55
What They Say The River Oct 2015 #13
Pressured to do the right thing FOR VOTES!!! d_legendary1 Oct 2015 #22
The Bernie Effect. nt TeamPooka Oct 2015 #16
Good news dbackjon Oct 2015 #19
what this says Robbins Oct 2015 #21
exactly. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #27
Never believe a word the Clintons say on trade Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2015 #25
You didn't have to add the "on trade" part tularetom Oct 2015 #31
this is a calculated political decision. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #26
K&R!!!! rury Oct 2015 #35
Just the other day, a poster predicted that Hillary would do this -- Maedhros Oct 2015 #28
"As of today, I am not in favor of what I have learned about it." randome Oct 2015 #29
Methinks the headline writers were the intended audience, not us. arcane1 Oct 2015 #56
Oh Noes..... SandersDem Oct 2015 #33
Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #34
Is Hildebeest now an OK moniker here on DU? OrwellwasRight Oct 2015 #40
That is the name they use for Hillary on upaloopa Oct 2015 #45
It's not cool. OrwellwasRight Oct 2015 #46
I did not alert because I was alert stalked upaloopa Oct 2015 #47
Hey lookit! OrwellwasRight Oct 2015 #71
I told someone about it and they alerted upaloopa Oct 2015 #72
Oh Noes Number Two! SandersDem Oct 2015 #36
Well LiberalElite Oct 2015 #37
"As of today" thereismore Oct 2015 #38
dat careful wording... retrowire Oct 2015 #44
Good. ForgoTheConsequence Oct 2015 #48
It's too late for it to mean anything, nevertheless . . . Jack Rabbit Oct 2015 #49
everyone knows she'll support something once the polls hit 57% against MisterP Oct 2015 #51
I support Bernie but will vote for the Dem nominee....This could end ALBliberal Oct 2015 #57
Bernie had it right all along. Sparky 1 Oct 2015 #58
! Phlem Oct 2015 #59
More Profiles In Courage from Mrs. "ME TOO!"...no, really, I've ALWAYS been against this........ Indepatriot Oct 2015 #61
I only wish Clinton would have come out against it before the vote to allow fast track davidpdx Oct 2015 #62
Well, I'll come out and say it... coyote Oct 2015 #63
+1 CountAllVotes Oct 2015 #68
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
1. That will be one interesting vote in February 2016.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 04:43 PM
Oct 2015

Obama will be for it.

Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley against it.

Presumably Jeb! and Thirsty Marco will be for it, Trump and Crazy Ben will probably be against it.

What will House Republicans do?

ram2008

(1,238 posts)
2. Flip Flop Flashback
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 04:45 PM
Oct 2015

Hillary in 2012: "..we need to keep upping our game both bilaterally and with partners across the region through agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership or TPP. Australia is a critical partner. This TPP sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free, transparent, fair trade, the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level playing field. And when negotiated, this agreement will cover 40 percent of the world's total trade and build in strong protections for workers and the environment.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/15/politics/45-times-secretary-clinton-pushed-the-trade-bill-she-now-opposes/"

Lol! But I guess it's a good thing.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
8. You just be quiet and march your
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 05:00 PM
Oct 2015

Zombie self to the polls for, ya know, The Inevitable One because that's what The Entrenched Establishment Crowd tells you to do.

dogknob

(2,431 posts)
15. Use of "Haters?" Check. naming possible arguments as if doing so invalidates them magically?
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 05:42 PM
Oct 2015

Check.

Welcome to Discussionist.

Control-Z

(15,683 posts)
17. She hasn't been privy to what was in it
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 06:05 PM
Oct 2015

once she left her position as SOS. Think maybe a lot of changes were made in the 3 years since?

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
30. Any mook with a search engine has been privy to a lot of what's in it.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 07:17 PM
Oct 2015

For example, per her statement, she's "worried about currency manipulation not being part of the agreement"? That was known months ago. USTR said it wasn't in, and the Secretary of the Treasury said it wouldn't BE in because the US wouldn't even try for it because there was so much opposition.

Several chapters have been published in leaked near-final drafts. We'll see if "maybe a lot of changes were made" from the drafts that were widely available.

My guess is that the most objectionable provisions are in substantially the same form as they were when she left office. The negotiating has been over fine points, such as the exact number of years of patent protection for new drugs.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
54. The leaks were not denied. I suspect we'll now learn that they were fairly close to the final.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:32 PM
Oct 2015

In the leaked versions, perhaps the single point that's drawn the most flak is the ISDS. Is anyone suggesting that there was nothing remotely like that in the version under negotiation as of Clinton's departure from State? It's really integral to the whole scheme.

Let Clinton explain to us how the version that Congress will vote on differs from the one that she described as "the gold standard". I'll be fascinated to hear what changes in the polls in the agreement precipitated her change of heart.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
60. frrankly
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:01 AM
Oct 2015

if someone with her connections and power as SOS did not see any bugs under the hood, she is either a fool, or a liar, neither of which offers any comfort.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
69. I was standing in solidarity with the DUers who do not have a "caps friendly" keyboard.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 09:22 AM
Oct 2015

El pueblo unido jamás será vencido.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
20. Hating Two Faced Politicians
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 06:17 PM
Oct 2015

Too little IS too late. Your so smart to see that coming. Lol. When it mattered she was silent and trust me supports it. Look at Honduras and the crime she supported there. The fact is TPP is set so now she Pretends she was against it and you wonder why people hate her? You need to take the goggles off.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
41. We'll take it as a positive.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 08:31 PM
Oct 2015

But keep close scrutiny. Yes, it is likely a calculated ploy to draw in the left/environmentalists.

24601

(3,973 posts)
50. Stomp out bullying from those who follow HRC's methodology of accusing anyone who doesn't
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:22 PM
Oct 2015

supported of being a hater - or a right wing fanatic or whatever.

And doing it preemptively as well!

Sounds like the vast third-way conspiracy trying to muzzle our legitimate opinions. I will not submit to this bullying.

Believing she's not the best choice for the Presidency is not hating - got it.



SandersDem

(592 posts)
7. If Hillary came out against it now...
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 04:59 PM
Oct 2015

the wind must be blowing against TPP....perhaps we have reached a critical mass of objection and this thing can be stopped.

I will give her credit for making the right decision here, but my vote is going to the guy I never doubted.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
67. Or a candidate who is making her seem somewhat more evitable is against it.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 05:51 AM
Oct 2015

I can't take this seriously. Once the primary is over, she'll say she was referring to some tiny bit of it that she wanted to see changed, but it's better to have the TPP as is than to do without it entirely. I'm staying with the description of "gold standard" she gave it previously as being her actual position.

NonMetro

(631 posts)
10. Again, She's The Last Horse Out Of The Barn! It's A Distubing Pattern With Her!
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 05:10 PM
Oct 2015

It's like the Planned Parenthood thing: Bernie denounced the GOP as soon as those phony videos came out, Hillary about 2 months later! Her campaign people need to have a long talk with her about this. A really loooooooong talk! And not next year!

pampango

(24,692 posts)
12. I have my doubts too but her involvement did end 2 1/2 years ago. There have been many
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 05:22 PM
Oct 2015

negotiations and changes since then.

Control-Z

(15,683 posts)
18. She had been.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 06:13 PM
Oct 2015

She had been helping negotiate it. She was helping while SOS. Think perhaps some changes were made since?

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
55. This is from 2013
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:41 PM
Oct 2015
http://infojustice.org/tpp


Does it sound like a great trade agreement with only roses and rainbows for the American, hell--- global, worker?


NAFTA screwed pretty much everyone but the corporations who made a lot of money.

The River

(2,615 posts)
13. What They Say
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 05:28 PM
Oct 2015

and what they do after being elected are often two different things as Obama has proved.
I'll stick with someone who doesn't have to be pressured to do the right thing.

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
22. Pressured to do the right thing FOR VOTES!!!
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 06:27 PM
Oct 2015

Let's get it right! If Republicans won't vote for Conserve-Dems why should I or any left-leaning individual for that matter?

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
21. what this says
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 06:24 PM
Oct 2015

they are hoping this ends her failing poll numbers.

I see a satregry forming going into first debate.try selling herself as true progressive in race.Hope this scares off Biden.and say
everything you like about bernie you get from me but i have been tested against the republicans.

It would last long enough to win nomination.then she starts to move back to the right.

 

Adenoid_Hynkel

(14,093 posts)
25. Never believe a word the Clintons say on trade
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 06:57 PM
Oct 2015

Remember how Bill vowed in 1992 that he was going to "stop coddling Chinese dictators?"

Instead, he ended up giving them permanent Most Favored Nation status, opening the doors for outsourcing to Beijing's labor force of prisons and sweatshops.

They'll sell out labor again in a heartbeat. It's the DLC way.

Anyone who falls for this again is a gullible sap.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
31. You didn't have to add the "on trade" part
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 07:19 PM
Oct 2015

They've been lying to us for 20 years and getting away with it because we were convinced that republicans were the only alternative.

This TPP thing is just the latest scam. She's convinced the thing is going to go through so her opposition is meaningless. She had nothing to gain by supporting it, just like the Keystone pipeline, which, due to the falling price of oil, won't get built for a long time, if ever.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
26. this is a calculated political decision.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 07:06 PM
Oct 2015

One criticism I have never leveled against Hillary is the one that says she's not smart. The debates are in a week. Bernie is positioned to clean her clock on every major issue. By adopting his positions in some cases several decades after he did, and claiming them as her own, she'll be able to sound like the big heroine who's the front runner to beat Trump.

this is all designed to minimize what was destined to be a horrible debate performance by Hillary and to water down the contrast between her and Bernie. She also gave her self wiggle room in the way that she said she was against it by saying something like the way we know it to be now. I don't doubt for a minute that if she were to get into the presidency she would turn around and support her corporate friends and sell us all out.

and, the lateness with which she made this decision shows once again that she is a follower and not a leader.

rury

(1,021 posts)
35. K&R!!!!
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 08:03 PM
Oct 2015
and, the lateness with which she made this decision shows once again that she is a follower and not a leader.


DAMN STRAIGHT!!
 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
28. Just the other day, a poster predicted that Hillary would do this --
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 07:10 PM
Oct 2015

-- with nearly EXACTLY the same wording -- right after the TPP was approved and it was too late to stop it.

Hats off to that poster.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
29. "As of today, I am not in favor of what I have learned about it."
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 07:12 PM
Oct 2015

Is that the same as being against it? I don't think so. She's hedging her bets, rarely a good thing to see but somewhat understandable since she's a politician.

Headline writers get too excited sometimes, I think.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
56. Methinks the headline writers were the intended audience, not us.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:43 PM
Oct 2015

We're supposed to only see "Clinton Opposes TPP" and miss the subtlety.

Response to Raine1967 (Original post)

OrwellwasRight

(5,170 posts)
40. Is Hildebeest now an OK moniker here on DU?
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 08:29 PM
Oct 2015

I mean, I concur in not finding her terribly honest or pincipled, but that name seems excessive...

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
45. That is the name they use for Hillary on
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 08:48 PM
Oct 2015

Freerepublic. I wish some people would stop carrying water for wing nut repubs.
I think today there was a OP relating Hillary to Hitler
Now there is a silent tribute to the author.

OrwellwasRight

(5,170 posts)
46. It's not cool.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 09:09 PM
Oct 2015

I'd alert, but the only time I ever alerted on a reprehensible post, I was voted down 6-0. And, most times I serve on a jury the offense seems trivial, so maybe I am overreacting.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
47. I did not alert because I was alert stalked
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 09:13 PM
Oct 2015

twice and I don't think the jury systems works well right now

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,875 posts)
48. Good.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 09:19 PM
Oct 2015

Even FDR had to be pushed to the left. I support Sanders but this makes me feel better about voting for Hillary if she is the nominee.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
49. It's too late for it to mean anything, nevertheless . . .
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:08 PM
Oct 2015

. . . I won't have to hold my nose quite as hard when I vote in the general election.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
51. everyone knows she'll support something once the polls hit 57% against
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:26 PM
Oct 2015

and even more people doubt she'll have any compunction about pushing for it once her hand is off the Bible two Januaries from now

ALBliberal

(2,419 posts)
57. I support Bernie but will vote for the Dem nominee....This could end
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 11:01 PM
Oct 2015

Up being a "She was for it before she was against it" meme in the general election...ala John Kerry. This is not good. It frustrates me that she will be attacked for inconsistency which in turn makes her leadership skills seem questionable.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
62. I only wish Clinton would have come out against it before the vote to allow fast track
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 03:41 AM
Oct 2015

She didn't have a vote, but certainly could have influenced some in Congress to vote against it. If fast track had been killed then there would be no vote on TPP. I can tell you for sure TPP is a sure bet now that its been negotiated. Congress is going to sell us down the river. It won't matter who is president we WILL BE LOCKED INTO IT.

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