Palace criticises Sun over film of Queen giving Nazi salute as a child
Source: Guardian
The film lasts about 17 seconds and shows Elizabeth playing with a dog on the lawn in the gardens of Balmoral, the Sun claims, before she raises an arm to wave to the camera with Margaret. The Queen Mother then makes a Nazi salute and, after glancing towards her mother, Elizabeth mimics the gesture. The Queen Mother repeats the salute, joined by Edward, and Margaret raises her left hand before the two children continue dancing and playing on the grass.
A palace source said: Most people will see these pictures in their proper context and time. This is a family playing and momentarily referencing a gesture many would have seen from contemporary newsreels. No one at that time had any sense how it would evolve. To imply anything else is misleading and dishonest.
The Queen is around six years of age at the time and entirely innocent of attaching any meaning to these gestures. The Queen and her familys service and dedication to the welfare of this nation during the war, and the 63 years the Queen has spent building relations between nations and peoples, speaks for itself.
In its leader column, the Sun defended the publication of the video, saying that its focus was not on the young child who would become queen, but on her uncle, who was then heir to the throne. The paper said: Elizabeth and Margaret are kids. Families of all kinds larked around apeing the stiff-armed antics of the faintly comic character with the Charlie Chaplin moustache who won power in Germany. But Edward, it said, was already a fan of Hitler and remained so as late as 1970, long after the Holocausts horrors were laid bare.
Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/18/buckingham-palace-defends-footage-of-queen-giving-nazi-salute-as-a-child
Yet more confirmation of the questionable beliefs of Britain's royal family. Prince Philip gave an interview in 2006 in which he admitted being a Nazi sympathiser early on:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html
Elizabeth deserves no blame, she was six at the time and was clearly coached into giving the Sieg Heil by her mother. The other members of the family can't use that excuse, this was 1937 and the writing was plainly on the wall by then.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)OnlinePoker
(5,719 posts)That's Edward and Wallace Simpson, known Nazi sympathizers.
ananda
(28,859 posts)Her mother is taller and bigger than Wallis.
Wallis was an ittybitty thing.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)He was her uncle.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,314 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)He definitely was a Nazi sympathizer.
Response to tomm2thumbs (Reply #1)
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Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Following the First World War, the royal family changed its name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor to distract attention from its German heritage.
Family members of Prince Philip, who is from the house of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg, were unabashed supporters of Hitler and the Nazis.
Brother-in-law, Prince Christoph of Hesse, was a member of the SS. He piloted fighters that attacked allied troops in Italy.
Several weeks before Germany invaded Poland King George VI and his wife, the late Queen Mother, sent Hitler a birthday greeting.
I never thought Hitler was such a bad chap, said Georges brother, the former King Edward VIII, who became the Duke of Windsor after abdicating in 1936. Edward made this remark in 1970 when it was widely known that Hitler and the Nazis had directly and indirectly killed more than 40 million civilians and soldiers.
The Nazis planned to install the Duke as leader after a successful conquest of Britain. The former head of British naval intelligence said Hitler would soon be in this country, but that there was no reason to worry about it because he would bring the Duke of Windsor over as king.
Other royals were also connected to the Nazis. Baron Gunther von Reibnitz, the father of Princess Michael of Kent, was a party member and an honorary member of the SS. The brother of Princess Alice was a Nazi who claimed Hitler had done a wonderful job. Charles Edward was placed under house arrest after the war for his Nazi sympathies. He was sentenced by a denazification court, heavily fined and almost bankrupted.
Much of the British gentry also held a fondness for Hitler and the Nazis. Lord Halifax was infatuated with Hitler and Sir Oswald Mosely served as the leader of the British Black Shirts.
Montagu Norman, 1st Baron Norman, the Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 to 1944, was a close friend of the German Central Bank President Hjalmar Schacht. Schacht was an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party and served in the Nazi government as President of the Reichsbank and Minister of Economics. Norman played a key role in transferring Czechoslovakian gold to the Nazis in March 1939.
One of the not-so-well kept secrets in British society is the vastly close relations between The House of Windsor, Adolph Hitler, and The Nazi Party.
The Windsors' links with Germany remained a touchy subject however. There was embarrassment in the Eighties when Princess Michael of Kent's father, Baron Gunther von Reibnitz, was exposed as a former Nazi party member and SS officer.
Less well known is the fact that one of Prince Philip's sisters, Sophie, was married to Christopher of Hesse-Cassel, an SS colonel who named his eldest son Karl Adolf in Hitler's honour. Indeed, all four of Philip's sisters married high-ranking Germans
For some 50 years royal documents were held in vaults at Windsor Castle that detailed the abdicated king Edward VIIIs relations with Hitler and the Nazis. They included captured German documents describing the Windsors meeting with Hitler in 1937 and plans to restore Edward, the Duke of Windsor to the throne if the Nazis won the war. Some of these documents still remain hidden from the public.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Your post has been a very interesting read. Thanks
LuvNewcastle
(16,845 posts)I don't know how to post links from my Kindle, so I'll just tell you what I've read.
Prince Philip was born into Greek and Danish royal families. He was born in Greece, but his family became exiled from there when he was young. He was in the British Royal Navy during WW II and he corresponded with Elizabeth during that time; she is his third cousin through Queen Victoria. He became a naturalized British subject and gave up his titles before their engagement was announced. They were married after the war. He is the oldest male member of the British Royal family in history.
ananda
(28,859 posts)... which resulted in their being rulers in other countries.
Queen Victoria's children ruled or married rulers in several countries,
including Germany (Kaiser Wilhelm) and Russia.
Prince Philip is definitely German from the house of Schleswig-Holstein-etc. And his family was pro-Nazi in Britain and completely Nazi in Germany.
LuvNewcastle
(16,845 posts)They remind me of the Addams Family, without the lovable characteristics.
paleotn
(17,912 posts)could be the inbreeding.
dembotoz
(16,803 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)That would be requiring her to dissociate herself from the views of her racist old sot of a husband, for a start.
he was in the news again today, after asking a community organisation: who do you sponge off? ironic, given the biggest spongers and social parasites in britain would have to be the royal family.
LuvNewcastle
(16,845 posts)I saw him greet someone who had just been to China, and he asked them, "were you able to tell them apart?" He thought it was funny, had a nice little chuckle about it.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Don't stay here too long or you'll get slanty eyes. Hur hur hur.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Do you have a link?
The man is over 90.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)But through tourism, they give London a lot of money. So it evens out. I don't think London would be the go to place without the royals. Certainly not as much.
Retrograde
(10,136 posts)because they kicked out their monarchs. iMHO this "they bring in the tourists" propaganda is wishful thinking by monarchists.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)and other tourist areas. London has Big Ben....lol. Good try though. Yes I have been to all 3 many times.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)That is a cool list. I will take it with me next time. Thanks!!!!
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)they're just reporting what happened back then.
bucolic_frolic
(43,161 posts)of many nations saw money to be made in Hitler's Germany
and welcomed Hitler as a bulwark against Soviet Communism.
They were not aware of the path things would take.
Jim Marrs "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" concludes that Hitler
lost the war, but the Nazi's won as they migrated globally and
were used in the Cold War, and their technical engineering was
sought by many nations. Marrs now calls them globalists.
For those interested in further reading, there is the book
"Friendly Fascism" by political scientist Bertram Gross. I think he
taught at CUNY in the 1970s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertram_Myron_Gross
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #6)
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PATRICK
(12,228 posts)was watching my parents grimly torturing themselves watching the GOP convention on TV. When the childish "I LIKE IKE" parade and chanting filled the aisles I joined in with delight and I thought it was even funnier the madder my Dad got. The only real impression from those years were the clear and since unchanging reasons why the GOP was against the working person. There has never been a real moment in my life I ever dreamed of approaching the GOP. And as they changed to the "progressively" worse with the same consistency I became even more fixed.
Uh, by the way, I apologize.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,439 posts)Maybe not so much back then. Things were different in 1956.
Full disclosure: I've done some cherry-picking of the platform.
Republican Party Platform of 1956 - August 20, 1956
Under the Republican Administration, as our country has prospered, so have its people. This is as it should be, for as President Eisenhower said: "Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this countrythey are America."
The Eisenhower Administration has brought to our people the highest employment, the highest wages and the highest standard of living ever enjoyed by any nation. Today there are nearly 67 million men and women at work in the United States, 4 million more than in 1952. Wages have increased substantially over the past 3 1/2 years; but, more important, the American wage earner today can buy more than ever before for himself and his family because his pay check has not been eaten away by rising taxes and soaring prices.
The record of performance of the Republican Administration on behalf of our working men and women goes still further. The Federal minimum wage has been raised for more than 2 million workers. Social Security has been extended to an additional 10 million workers and the benefits raised for 6 1/2 million. The protection of unemployment insurance has been brought to 4 million additional workers. There have been increased workmen's compensation benefits for longshoremen and harbor workers, increased retirement benefits for railroad employees, and wage increases and improved welfare and pension plans for federal employees.
In addition, the Eisenhower Administration has enforced more vigorously and effectively than ever before, the laws which protect the working standards of our people.
Workers have benefited by the progress which has been made in carrying out the programs and principles set forth in the 1952 Republican platform. All workers have gained and unions have grown in strength and responsibility, and have increased their membership by 2 millions.
Furthermore, the process of free collective bargaining has been strengthened by the insistence of this Administration that labor and management settle their differences at the bargaining table without the intervention of the Government. This policy has brought to our country an unprecedented period of labor-management peace and understanding.
We applaud the effective, unhindered, collective bargaining which brought an early end to the 1956 steel strike, in contrast to the six months' upheaval, Presidential seizure of the steel industry and ultimate Supreme Court intervention under the last Democrat Administration.
The Eisenhower Administration will continue to fight for dynamic and progressive programs which, among other things, will:
Stimulate improved job safety of our workers, through assistance to the States, employees and employers;
Continue and further perfect its programs of assistance to the millions of workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers;
....
Protect by law, the assets of employee welfare and benefit plans so that workers who are the beneficiaries can be assured of their rightful benefits;
Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of Sex;
....
Extend the protection of the Federal minimum wage laws to as many more workers as is possible and practicable;
Continue to fight for the elimination of discrimination in employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry or sex;
Provide assistance to improve the economic conditions of areas faced with persistent and substantial unemployment;
....
PATRICK
(12,228 posts)used to be politically benficial to the elctorate. They wanted IKE and power and the money moderates had the means and people. At the same time, because pretending to be nice to the FDR influence might not be enough to get democrats to switch they lunged for the Southern Strategy to build even more ground under the presidential shoe-in. The trajectory of parties(as JFK spoke about) was utterly set by this sea change. The Dems, always restless with "Northern progressivism" did not take advantage of Kennedy enough. Ever since dumping Wallace for Truman in FDR's death term the coalition wanted to find the "good Southerner" to take back the south. And then there was the steady money corruption of both parties. Big money is behind the century(or more) old fight for corporate interests against all social interests.
As late as Nader there was still a belief the GOP could be motivated to do sane things while alarmed disappointment of a hundred varieties soured many on the Democrats. In my whole life the most unrelenting incrementalism has been the vibrant growth of evil in the GOP. You might not have thought that with the demise of Goldwater and the dumping of Nixon. But Nixon set illegality in the driver's box for all years to come.
Liberals were steadily reduced to what moderates are today in the GOP.
Up until Reagan I thought there was still some "reasonable faction" holding power at least behind the scenes(and would have taken the Eisenhower platform to heart). But that the officials were indeed becoming worse and worse regarding any value to the common American citizen. The Whigs absorbed the Know Nothings is the modern story of the GOP hold on power.
En Garde
(94 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:28 AM - Edit history (1)
Old Phil is quite the racist and bigoted, as evidenced by his history, as are many British aristos.
But the tugging of forelocks keeps going on...
Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)Roosevelt had to play his hand very cannily, as throughout the West and Antipodes, the monied folk had thought Hitler and Mussolini were the cat's whiskers. INCLUDING Churchill and Lloyd George!
Remember the likes of Dupont, J P Morgan etc tried to co-opt Smedley-Butler to legitimise the coup they were lanng against Roosevelt? The CIA was originally of very Nazi complexion, and indeed, imperialism is not too distinct from fascism, to put it mildly. Look at your record in South America!
Mad Phil was just a toff of his day. None of them had the nous to foresee where it would inevitably lead, including a genius like Lloyd George - who I like to think might have been a bit dotty by then.. Phil's actually not a snob at all, and you want a 'man's man' in his position. He once told the queen he'd turn her out of the car, if she didn't quit, well, I suppose it was back-seat driving, but I can't remember. It might have been just nagging.
He also told Charles that Diana was a modern girl and he was courting trouble, if he thought he could 'carry on' as he had before, after they were married. Sure he has the prejudices of that generation, but I guarantee that he's the sort of person who'd treat people as he finds them. I think we're lucky with our Royals. I'd sure prefer most of them to the likes of Murdoch, Black et al.
En Garde
(94 posts)I bow to no man or woman, nor do I make excuses for Nazi sympathizers.
Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 08:59 AM - Edit history (1)
the election. They want to replace the Lords with an elected Upper Chamber.
A meritocracy? Sounds good, you might say, but that would only be true if you consider the Rogues' Gallery of Sun-owner, Rupert Murdoch, Conrad Black, Robert Maxwell, Porn mag. owner, Desmond et al would be likely to be the best arbiters of who is meritorious and who isn't. They and their 'deep state' fellow-oligarchs already exert 80% of the political power in the country.
In short, the system of royal patronage of the old money toffs, would be replaced by the patronage of the most cynical, least patriotic go-getters, who are already wreaking such havoc through their media. And the Tories themselves are pretty light on patriotism where economics is concerned, being more interested in squeezing the last drop of blood from the poor public than in the health and strength of the country's economy and its people.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,314 posts)That's what The Sun reckons, and Margaret was born August 1930, and she does look about 3 in the picture here: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jul/18/queens-nazi-salute-footage-historical-significance-sun
Yes, that does make some difference, about whether "the writing was plainly on the wall by then". It is quite possible that the 'imitating what they see on newsreels' is the simple explanation for 1933.
ananda
(28,859 posts)The aristocrats and the rich Brits were pro Nazi
until it became less politically expedient and
the country was at war.
And btw, the royal family was imported into
England from Germany -- they were the
Battenbergs, then changed to Mountbatten
and Windsor.
Nowadays, they are trying to appear more normal
and human, so Prince William didn't even use the
name Windsor when he entered school and the world.
He called himself William Wales (for Prince of Wales,
but more common, you know.)
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)..same peeps that put Hitler in power.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)the sun is a tabloid rag, they're similar to a cheap whore who works only for the money/clicks
Enrique
(27,461 posts)and a classic tabloid pun headline to boot
DinahMoeHum
(21,786 posts)Nothing much has changed. The Sun is still regarded among many Brits as a substitute for toilet paper.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/8/1/billy_bragg_british_rocker_on_norway_attacks
Igel
(35,300 posts)The year Hitler became president in Germany and when everybody was (1) concerned about the depression and (2) still considered Hitler a bit of a buffoon.
They were wearing sweaters, but I can't tell what time of year it was--spring or fall. In the spring, things were looking bad, but mostly in hindsight. In the fall, things weren't looking all that much worse. It really depended on whether you thought it was a short-term aberration or leading up to a hugh disaster.
I haven't checked--is there sound with the film? (Probably not.) "Teaching to" salute earnestly and "making fun of" and "this is what they do" are the kinds of things that really look the same. Esp. when you don't want to look for any subtle differences.
Bosonic
(3,746 posts)1939
(1,683 posts)usually it is done with the fingers spread and a bit to the side rather than together as the Nazis did.
Remember that in 1933, there was a bit of comic opera to the pageantry of the fascists in Italy and the Nazis in Germany so aping thenm was often a joke rather than seriously supporting them.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)Politicub
(12,165 posts)and this video.
Monarchy, indeed.
classof56
(5,376 posts)During WWII, my sister, born in 1934, a few years before I was, used to take a lock of her long brown hair, put it under her nose like a moustache, raise her arm and say "Heil Hitler". We got a kick out of that (hey, we were kids!), and had no idea what it signified. Information about the war was limited to local newspapers and listening to the occasional radio news reports (no TV then, of course). Our father worked in a Naval Shipyard along with many others in our town, and we were aware of rationing, coupons, "loose lips sink ships", etc., but that was about it. Probably my sister was more cognizant of the reality that governed our lives, since she was in grade school. She's long dead now (died far too young), but I'd hate to see that silly childhood activity held against us now. I am still haunted by the reports of the horror that was going on in Europe that filtered into my consciousness when I was about ten. Not sure what to say about the royal family, but I'm guessing Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret Rose were pretty unaware of what the Sieg Heil salute meant. I'll give them the benefit of a doubt. If nothing else, the London Blitz may have changed the royals' minds. Just a thought...
Peace.
EX500rider
(10,845 posts)Actually it was 1933 and the writing on the wall wasn't quite as plain yet.
Buckingham Palace has said it is disappointed that footage from 1933 showing the Queen performing a Nazi salute has been released.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33578174
24601
(3,962 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)In 1933 Hitler, leader or fÜhrer of the National Socialist German Workers Party (or Nazi Party), was named chancellor of Germany.
"Hitlers emergence as chancellor on January 30, 1933, marked a crucial turning point for Germany and, ultimately, for the world. His plan, embraced by much of the German population, was to do away with politics and make Germany a powerful, unified one-party state. He began immediately, ordering a rapid expansion of the state police, the Gestapo, and putting Hermann Goering in charge of a new security force, composed entirely of Nazis and dedicated to stamping out whatever opposition to his party might arise. From that moment on, Nazi Germany was off and running, and there was little Hindenburg or von Papenor anyonecould do to stop it."
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/adolf-hitler-is-named-chancellor-of-germany
"After the elections of March 5, 1933, the Nazis began a systematic takeover of the state governments throughout Germany, ending a centuries-old tradition of local political independence. Armed SA and SS thugs barged into local government offices using the state of emergency decree as a pretext to throw out legitimate office holders and replace them with Nazi Reich commissioners.
Political enemies were arrested by the thousands and put in hastily constructed holding pens. Old army barracks and abandoned factories were used as prisons. Once inside, prisoners were subjected to military style drills and harsh discipline. They were often beaten and sometimes even tortured to death. This was the very beginning of the Nazi concentration camp system."
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/dictator.htm
This video only serves to prove once again that Britain was lucky that Edward abdicated. In 1933 he was still a prince. He admired Hitler, despite the many warning signs that his goal was to eliminate all political parties in Germany and become a totalitarian ruler. Elizabeth (the Queen mother) was no intellectual giant, so I'm not surprised that she would play along. As for the current queen and her sister, they were little girls and just imitating their uncle.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 06:56 PM - Edit history (2)
queen Victoria's husband, Prince Albert, was German born from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. That became the family name until George V changed it to the House of Windsor by royal proclamation due to anti-German sentiment following WWI.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)King George V changed the family's name to Windsor in 1917 by royal proclamation. The name change was prompted by British anti-German sentiment during WWI. It reached its peak in 1917 when a German bomber named "Gotha G.IV" crossed the English Channel and dropped bombs on London.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Who knew?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)In 1933, many viewed the rise of Hitler as a good thing, since many thought he would stabilize Germany. Most of the world didn't yet know what Nazism was. Many of thise folks changed their minds fairly quick lythrough 30's, though some never did.
I rhink saying "she was a Nazi" is a bit of a stretch.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Nobody remembers Edward the Duke of Windsor and Wallis Simpson?? Because their Nazi sympathies were pretty cut and dried...
Octafish
(55,745 posts)by Scott Thompson
Printed in The American Almanac, August 25, 1997.
One of the biggest public relations hoaxes ever perpetrated by the British Crown, is that King Edward VIII, who abdicated the throne in 1938, due to his support for the Nazis, was a "black sheep," an aberration in an otherwise unblemished Windsor line. Nothing could be further from the truth. The British monarchy, and the City of Londons leading Crown bankers, enthusiastically backed Hitler and the Nazis, bankrolled the Führers election, and did everything possible to build the Nazi war machine, for Britains planned geopolitical war between Germany and Russia.
Support for Nazi-style genocide has always been at the heart of House of Windsor policy, and long after the abdication of Edward VIII, the Merry Windsors maintained their direct Nazi links.
So, when Prince Philip, co-founder with Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), tells an interviewer that he hopes to be "reincarnated as a deadly virus" to help solve the "population problem," he is just "doin what comes naturally" for any scion of the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy (see page 8 for more quotes from Prince Philip).
To get beyond the soap opera stuff and truly understand the Windsors today, it is useful to start with Prince Philip. Not only was he trained in the Hitler Youth curriculum, but his German brothers-in-law, with whom he lived, all became high-ranking figures in the Nazi Party.
Before his family was forced into exile, Prince Philip had been in line of succession to the Greek throne, established after a British-run coup against the son of King Ludwig of Bavaria, who became King Otto I of the Hellenes. Having dispatched King Otto in 1862, London ran a talent search for a successor, which resulted in the selection of Prince William, the son of the designated heir and nephew to the Danish king, Crown Prince Christian. In 1862, Prince William of the Danes was installed as King George I of Greece, and married a granddaughter of Czar Nicholas I in 1866. Prince Philip is a grandson of Queen Victoria, and he is related to most of the current and former crowned heads of Europe, including seven czars.
The marriages of Prince Philips sisters definitely strengthened the German aristocratic ties. During 1931-1932, Philips four older sisters married as follows: Margarita to a Czech-Austrian prince named Gottfried von Hohenlohe-Langenburg, a great-grandson of Englands Queen Victoria; Theodora to Berthold, the margrave of Baden; Cecilia to Georg Donatus, grand duke of Hesse-by-Rhine, also a great-grandson of Queen Victoria; and, Sophie to Prince Christoph of Hesse.
Three of Philips brothers-in-law were part of a group of German aristocrats who were Anglophile and pro-Nazi at the same time, and who remain a subversive force in Germany to this day.
CONTINUED...
http://american_almanac.tripod.com/naziroot.htm
Response to Octafish (Reply #58)
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