General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy guess is that Mueller is debating whether to indict another individual at this time or...
...to wait a little longer?
He may feel the need to show that there is indeed something to investigate and that it is not a "hoax" and that progress is being made in the investigation?
The times and circumstances may dictate that he move a little quicker than he would like?
Just a guess...
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)those he's investigating.
He only has to prove their criminal guilt.
He will.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)He can be dismissed.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Mueller wins the final chess move.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)...in this matter.
Trump holds more cards than you are willing to admit, I think?
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Willing to admit?
Geezus, call me ignorant or whatever.
Egaaad
kentuck
(111,111 posts)"Mueller wins the final chess move."
What do you call that attitude??
33taw
(2,450 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)He'd have to fire Rosenstein, reappt someone willing to do the dirty job that Rosenstein won't do.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)...until a replacement is found for Rosenstein? Sort of like Judge Bork?
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)I believe Mueller will win this game. You may naysay all you want.
My opinion will not change.
Conversation with you is over, in that case.
We differ on opinion.
Later.
Please put me on ignore.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Your post #29 replied to post #24.
Just fyi in case you want to correct it.
Later
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)He did not put himself on ignore. Just fyi in case you want to correct it.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)I don't agree with your opinion.
I have more faith in team Mueller & AG Schneiderman who work together in bringing down the mob.
The investigation into Trump Org in NY has been going on for yrs.
It is Guiliani/NYFBI who protected Trump's dirty deals during those yrs.
Mueller is after RICO. Trump, & Many Congressionals who took Kremlin cash.
The upcoming meeting next week between Mueller & Trump's attorneys will be the telling moment.
I have absolute faith the rat-corner Mueller has Trump in, is getting smaller & smaller.
Next week's meeting is where the biggest deal will be made.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)Trump has political cover now unlike any time in his life, in my opinion.
I am pulling for Mueller but I don't think it is a guarantee that he will not be fired.
Just my opinion.
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)He is careful and methodical, but never underestimates his enemy, and can adapt quickly and successfully to a changing environment.
I base this opinion on careful study of his experience in the jungles of Viet Nam as a rifle platoon leader. He stayed alive for a year, and received medals for his actions. One can make some good guesses about how he did this.
GallopingGhost
(2,404 posts)This is a real-life game of survivor. Mueller will be the one to outwit, outplay, outlast.
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)A very dangerous environment every day from the enemy and also his own men.
A lot of younger officers got fragged.
He stays one step ahead of the enemy and his own men. Knows how to lead and produce a cohesive fighting unit. He learns and adapts to new environments, has courage and steady nerves. Does not scare easily.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)also indictments, to knock back advances and send those investigated scuttling for their lawyers and the national press avidly on their tails. And with this major attack by the right on his and his investigation's integrity, no surprise if people are expecting a strong counter move on his part.
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)kentuck
(111,111 posts)...that, no matter if Bob Mueller is fired or not, the evidence does not disappear.
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)GallopingGhost
(2,404 posts)faith in Mueller. I know he's doing things right. The waiting is hard.
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)But this is a very serious and complicated investigation with profound implications for America and its institutions. I believe the treason and Russian quid pro quo spans both the White House and Congress.
I do not know how far or wide Mueller will feel he can go without doing irreparable harm to the country, but to stop short would also do great damage.
All I know is that I would not want to be in his shoes.
If it were me, I would bring all wrong doers to justice, come hell or high water.
But I would not have lasted a week in the jungles of Viet Nam.
Perhaps some back room deals will be cut.
And are being negotiated as we speak.
FakeNoose
(32,917 posts)The good leaders know how to inspire their men and earn their confidence and loyalty.
I'm certain Mueller knows the difference, and he's one of the good ones.
Just for the record, John Kerry was (and still is) also a good leader.
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)He survived danger all around him.
And in fact excelled.
Yes, Kerry did as well.
Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)Its just a matter of time before Mueller unseals them and sends out the Marshalls to bring the indicted in.
former9thward
(32,180 posts)Eyeball_Kid
(7,440 posts)and have extremely good sources of their own who don't trust parts of the MSM.
former9thward
(32,180 posts)There are billions of tweets everyday and most are banal or rumor spreading or outright lies. If someone wants to make credible claims do it openly and present evidence that can be checked and verified. Anonymous sources are meaningless.
Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)Youre the Attorney, you tell me.
The four whos indictments that have already been made public, were indicted prior them becoming unsealed and entered into the public realm.
former9thward
(32,180 posts)All. But they are not "sealed". And none of the four were either. The idea that Mueller has indicted people and is somehow waiting to charge people is unsupported by any evidence.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)kentuck
(111,111 posts)He could be gone by then.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)Motley13
(3,867 posts)and it could be since the moron is off the rails
PJMcK
(22,078 posts)He's a secondary target.
The next target is probably Jared Kushner. He repeatedly lied about his meetings with foreigners during the campaign. Specifically, he didn't include those easily proven facts on his Standard Form 86 which he had to prepare and sign under oath in order to obtain his security clearance.
This violation, which carries a maximum prison term of five years, could be the lever that Mr. Mueller uses to force testimony out of Kushner. Kushner has been close to Trump during his transition and presidency and participated in many of Trump's decisions. His biggest mistake was urging Trump to fire James Comey and I think that could bring obstruction charges against him.
I'd like to see Junior and Usay both get busted but that's just for fun. Kushner is one of the real criminals in this cabal.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)28th of the month. At which time his Office files their Expenditures for the preceding month.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,549 posts)The political consequences of trying to kill it grow for them with every indictment.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)If he indicts a couple more of the Trump team, it will be more difficult to call it a "hoax" and say there is nothing there.
former9thward
(32,180 posts)Manafort and his partner were indicted for crimes long before Trump. Flynn and Papadopoulos were indicted on process crimes not substance crimes. This has been an 18 month investigation so far. One would think more would have come out of it by now.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)Lying to the FBI is a process crime. Although the lying was about talking with the Russians and lying about it.
Why do you think more has not come out of it by now?
former9thward
(32,180 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:00 AM - Edit history (1)
I don't think much of the Russia investigation. I don't think Clinton lost because Russia was hacking ballots. Do I think Russia deliberately interferes in other country's elections including ours? Hell, yes. They have been doing it since Soviet times. Their first known attempt, when Truman called them on it, was in 1948 when they financed Wallace's third party bid.
Our hands are not clean when it comes to interfering in elections either. The list is long there, including Russia. And no I am not suggesting equivalency.
If Mueller wants to indict people on crimes he will find them. If you picked names of New York developers and lenders out of a hat you would find criminal violations no matter what their party. I just don't think there will crimes involving conspiracy with Russia and the election.
rzemanfl
(29,589 posts)former9thward
(32,180 posts)I don't know why I put his name there. I edited it.
rzemanfl
(29,589 posts)kentuck
(111,111 posts)I think we need to view it from the perspective of an oligarch and how to protect oneself while making billions of dollars thru money-laundering and gaming the system. Also, we should look at the destruction of our institutions and the breakdown of government as we have known it. It is about power and propaganda.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)Link to tweet
Link to tweet
For me, Point 2 is a crucial one. The Intel Agencies of the US allies have a mountain of info (and apparently audio/video) on the treasonous activities of Trump and his gang. Ultimately this is the fail safe.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Donnie never thought he'd win the election but saw the campaign as a way to deal with his massive debt to Russian banks - make a financial deal that would help his son in law out of his massive financial problems and hurt Hillary so she couldn't be an effective president. He never expected ANY of this to come out. Why would it? That's why they were sloppy.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)..and he kept with his business deals after he was sworn in as President and continues even today.
Trump tower is filled with owners that are Russian mobsters. Been known in NYC for a long time. Donnie is covered in sleaze. His sucking up to Putin is revolting to watch but we know why it's happening. Mueller just needs to get the proof.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,440 posts)Trumpy bit off way more than he could chew. He campaigned on style with no substance. Now he's got no substance, and there's much worse in store for him.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)was important in its many messages. We pick up a seat but also, not only did many 2016 trump voters not want to vote for Moore, they also didn't give a crap that Donnie begged them to do it FOR HIM - they still stayed home/voted for someone else. Because he insists on living in his Fox News bubble, I don't think he even realizes the trouble he's in.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)That is a massive advantage for Mueller & those who refuse to allow Putin to steamroll the world.
We all collect & share Intel
Thanks for your post
marble falls
(57,647 posts)Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)course.
If he were convinced that the outcome of his investigation would do irreparable harm to the United States and its institutions. At this point he feels the opposite I think, but I am not sure how things will unfold in the future.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)The farthest he would probably go would be to recommend impeachment if it reached into the White House, which many think it probably does?
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)Kentuck, think about it. Say you are conducting a highly visible investigation.
And you find evidence of criminal activity, including treason, at the highest levels of government, in the White House, and also in the United States Congress. You have some very solid evidence and some is speculation. And you know that what you have found, and will continue to find, could have a very damaging impact on the country, its institutions, government, economy, etc.
But to do nothing could also be quite damaging.
So you have some choices to make?
hvn_nbr_2
(6,492 posts)1. He may still be working at flipping more people. I'm thinking in particular of the guy who was in charge of Cheeto's computer stuff (forget his name)--he has always seemed to me to be flippable and also to know a whole lot. There are probably several others, maybe even people that we've never even heard of.
2. one indictment against an inner-circle person (Jared or Don Jr. probably) on one charge that is not a charge that states (primarily NY) could charge. This approach would be to get Cadet Bone Spurs to show if he's going to use the pardon, maybe even trick him into using it so that the person can't claim the 5th amendment.
3. a massive set of indictments of several, even many, people with many individual charges, spelled out in significant detail, to bury the "witch hunt" and "nothing happened" memes under a ton of facts. I think that the level of wingnut attacks on Mueller, the investigation, and the FBI and all the wingnut calls to fire him may make this outcome closer on Mueller's horizon than it would otherwise be.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)with a lot of participants.
He would like to uncover as much as possible before indictments, I would think?
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)And the indictments are messages to other people.
He is using psychology as well as the law.
The very public morning raid on Manafort told us that.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)And that may be where the big crimes are?
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)At least that is what the press has been reporting.
I would assume Mueller is looking for material indicating a Russian /Trump quid pro quo or blackmail? Or at least the trail of how Trump has been incentivized by Putin in the past decade.
Irish_Dem
(48,180 posts)People leaving to spend more time with their family.
But no formal charges.
I think all four options are in play.
Response to kentuck (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
kentuck
(111,111 posts)What is wrong with the truth? What are you hiding? Why do you have to lie about everything to do with Russia? Why do you like Putin so much? Why do you have hundreds of LLC's all around the world? Why do you hate America? How did you get so lost? It may be unimportant to incurious people but some people care very much.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)kentuck
(111,111 posts)What is wrong with discussion of interesting topics?
brooklynite
(95,070 posts)...because thatt Not his job.