General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDoes anyone realize that if Al Franken resigns:
A. You will embolden the right wing smear machine to take out other Democrats in the near future.
B. Due process is unimportant.
C. Fewer good people will want to run for office.
D. People will remember Al Franken resigned in 2018 over sexual harassment, but gradually forget about Senator Moore's predatory behavior.
E. Once again, Republicans get away with rank hypocrisy.
spooky3
(34,452 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)Loud and clear. I just wish there was something more tangible to help Al in a tangible way.
I voted with the (vast) majority. btw.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)And I'm sure other liberal sites are rife with the same sentiment.
Are they this blinded to their own base?
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)This it utter, total bullshit.
When are we going to get real some Democratic party leadership? When??!!?
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)finesse the details. Too many moving parts, I guess.
ollie10
(2,091 posts)delisen
(6,043 posts)but haven't.
This is an authoritarian move on the part of these Senate Dems.
Wonder what else about Franken they don't like?
Willie Pep
(841 posts)Roy Moore, who has significantly worse accusations against him than Franken, may very well win his race. Republicans were going to vote for Trump no matter what.
This brings up an important difference between the parties. Republican voters are much more loyal and are willing to look past many, many deficiencies in candidates while Democratic voters don't and often seem to need extra motivation to go to the polls. This is a big Republican advantage.
onit2day
(1,201 posts)and repubs would still support him 'cause they need the vote. Dems senators better wake up because we need the votes and yet they are so quick to judge. Criminal sexual misconduct is not the same as sexual misconduct. I lost a lot of respect for those who railroaded Franken. They show themselves to be shortsighted. I'm just sick about this because we are fighting against an American take over and we needed Franken.
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)and he dared count the votes
Hugin
(33,140 posts)Trump Jr (aka Uday) refused to testify citing a ludicrous and non-existent client privilege.
It's beyond credulity for this to me a mere coincidence.
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)I am disgusted with the senate dems
oasis
(49,383 posts)He also should have choice words for "friends" who tossed him under the bus.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)questionseverything
(9,654 posts)onit2day
(1,201 posts)Willie Pep
(841 posts)I expect this to be a new form of ratfucking and as usual the Republicans will master it and deploy it very effectively.
spotthebird
(171 posts)It isn't possible that that no one is looking at the charges critically.
What is the subtext?
Perseus
(4,341 posts)I understand that five of the accusers are anonymous, could one of those be O'Keefe? have they sat down to think before they act? Obviously not!
Those five women need to come out and show their faces, otherwise it could be five Russian men just throwing trash at Franken.
It is very frustrating that these democratic women don't follow the rule of law, which demands that you are innocent until proven guilty. Shame on them. Are they republicans passing as democrats?
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)Perseus
(4,341 posts)It is the same as not voting...when we don't vote we automatically give the republicans a vote, and more than ever, today the country needs to get rid of them through voting, so please reconsider.
ollie10
(2,091 posts)But then again why don't our leaders want to EARN our votes and support? Fact is they don't care at all, not in the slightest. They need to get withe program...or we will lose. Then you can debate who lost first... but the idea is we lose.
onenote
(42,702 posts)I hate that Franken was forced from office, but let's stop with the cutting off our noses to spite our faces.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)is aided by some democrats thinking they are making points with I don't know who...maybe they think that if they use Franken as an example the republicans will follow? They couldn't be more wrong...
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Turbineguy
(37,329 posts)If we help get rid of Franken, we can be counted on to get rid of Mueller.
Trump won't have to fire Mueller if the Democrats do it for him.
ollie10
(2,091 posts)Look how easy it is!
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)"Yeah, I just talked to someone who said some bad things about Al but they don't want their names published so ... just take my word for it and fire him."
ollie10
(2,091 posts)keithbvadu2
(36,802 posts)Republicans say man who attacked woman with hammer can keep post as secretary
------------------------
New republican meme for abusing women... 'let it go'
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141931211
pansypoo53219
(20,976 posts)pandr32
(11,583 posts)catchnrelease
(1,945 posts)I feel like whoever is spearheading these attacks/allegations is just trying to take Franken down because he is so effective. It's like the first one with the USO woman didn't work and things kind of quieted down. Ok, lets send out another one. (The photo at the fair woman) That didn't take him down, so lets send in a couple more. (The first anonymous ones, who claim to be Democrats but won't say who they are) Now another anon claim. Like they will just keep finding women to make claims until he gives up and leaves.
The poor guy keeps taking shots but with little or no proof, and now his own party doesn't even want him to get a chance to defend himself in the ethics committee. I think that the accusers in this case need to come forward. Franken has no power over their lives in any way, so they should not be fearful of repercussions from him. (I am a woman, and don't feel that proof is required in all cases. Depends on each specific situation.)
I hope he sticks it out.
Lonestarblue
(9,988 posts)No. There are photos of him naked (need eye bleach! Yuk!), and he used taxpayer money to settle claims. He has said he will pay it back, but why is he not being harrassed the way Franken is? Republicans just shrug and say lets get back to business. Why are Democrats self destructing over this? If an investigation happens and Frankens accusers have proof, thats the time to consider resignationnot now.
Initech
(100,075 posts)Al is one Senator who has been instrumental in keeping Net Neutrality alive. Without him, we're done.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)brooklynite
(94,552 posts)gristy
(10,667 posts)The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)Mr. Evil
(2,844 posts)Why are certain people in such a hurry to get rid of Al Franken? He has never had a reputation for this kind of behavior. No behind the scenes rumors or snickering cafeteria banter. No innuendo whatsoever. Donald Trump, on the other hand, has had plenty. Rumors abound about his 'conquests.' He's even admitted in the presence of several people what he does and how he treats women. We even have an audio recording of him personally describing his tactics (with Tic Tacs) on how he overwhelms them. No rush to rid the public of him. Why is that? Harvey Weinstein, abominable behavior. Roy Moore is now gaining support with detailed descriptions of his sick behavior with minors. What the fuck is wrong with this picture?!!!
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Thanks to our purity has a hole in their head. The Lee Atwater school of political trickery is laughing its collective ass off over the hand wringing and flaming hair exhibited by Democratic Senators today.
If we really want to show the world what Democracy looks like - we would insist on making sure that EVERYONES due process rights are protected. If, in the end, wrong-doing is found then and only then should the appropriate actions be taken.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)kairos12
(12,861 posts)ladym55
(2,577 posts)I guess if Al Franken needs to resign, then it should come the day AFTER Donald Trump and Clarence Thomas resign ... and Roy Moore retires to go fishing.
I keep feeling manipulated.
Green Line
(1,123 posts)I just copied it and sent it to my Senators and Reps.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)I realize all of that. Dems calling for him to resign are crazy and Im alarmed and very disappointed to say the least in all of them. They are playing into the hands of those who want to destroy whats left of this democracy. Who will be next to be accused and pushed out of office without any real evidence and without due process.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)Something along the lines of "On this spot Sheriff Smith was hanged on his own gallows for robbery". I couldn't even tell you where it was maybe Oregon or Eastern Washington.
We made the rules in which accusations of a sexual nature were to be held to a much lower standard of evidence or require no evidence at all, and now they're being used against us.
Our leadership is fragging a highly effective senator because they can't just bring themselves to be in contradiction of the brave new world of they are so proud of establishing.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)He resigns - they win: dems are weak, reps are strong, "see he admitted it", etc
He doesn't resign - they win: dems don't resign why should anyone else.
If it's "real" they win: Franken resigns, dems are as bad as rep, etc
If it's "fake" they win: "look how easy it is to make stuff up, fake news, etc"
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)onenote
(42,702 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)There is some legal protection for those who are elected...none for appointees.
"Both houses of the United States Congress have refused to seat new members based on Article I, Section 5 of the United States Constitution which states that, "Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties as each House may provide." This had been interpreted that members of the House of Representatives and of the Senate could refuse to recognize the election or appointment of a new representative or senator for any reason, often political heterodoxy or criminal record. Powell v. McCormack (1969) limited the powers of the Congress to refuse to seat an elected member to when the individual does not meet the specific constitutional requirements of age, citizenship or residency. From the decision by Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Therefore, we hold that, since Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., was duly elected by the voters of the 18th Congressional District of New York and was not ineligible to serve under any provision of the Constitution, the House was without power to exclude him from its membership."
DownriverDem
(6,228 posts)1) The Dems will attack trump and moore with credibility since Conyers and Franken are gone.
2) Politics has nothing to do with due process. It is down in the dirt mean and dirty.
3) Tons of women and men are running as Dems now.
4) No one will forget moore because if the Dems win control of either the House or Senate in 2018 they will investigate
him.
5) Please realize that the Dems are playing long ball. You are playing today.
benld74
(9,904 posts)AllaN01Bear
(18,205 posts)i smell a rat. plain and simple. funny that this was done to bill clinton, has been done to others. i always thought that there was a statute of limitations. and WHY now? alarm alarm. alarm.
MrPurple
(985 posts)If Al had made a speech today announcing that he was staying, the division in the party would have become a lead story and a major distraction. It stinks. I hate seeing someone of Al's talent and dedication forced out over charges that are likely made up and are too minor (he put his hand on my waist while taking a picture) to warrant resignation.
History will show that he resigned due to a sex scandal, which is absurd.
Also, this wouldn't be possible without the joke photo on the USO tour. That gave the illusion that there was substance for the other made up accusations to add onto. I wish the Democrats had stood their ground on this one because they haven't really gained anything and have banished one of their most valuable players.
Also, Tim Pawlenty or some Republican could possibly pick up this seat in the special election in the coming year.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)About Dems being wimps. They've folded. Talk about bringing a butter knife to a gun fight, they have capitulated to railroading and bullying!
What one DUer posted yesterday truly applies:
"These people (Rethugians) climbed out of the sewer. We may want to consider going into the gutter to fight them"
- Mississippi Burning
Al's leaving is so infuriating and fucking sad. How the HELL could they do this to him when TRump is in the WH planning to go nuclear to draw attention away from his pending prosecutions and Alabama is going to elect Roy Moore! What the FUCK!!
Dalton Mac
(76 posts)lame54
(35,290 posts)Hence the hullabaloo
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)idahoblue
(377 posts)that no person with a previous life can pass, man or woman. Ever touched a butt? Youre out. Brushed a breast? Out! Gave a friendly squeeze to a friend? Out! Tina Dupuy complains he grabbed her fat? Give me a break. They were posing for a picture in a room full of people and she was grinning ear to ear. Accuser #4 took her talking point directly from the Billy Bush tape. She really smells like a liar.
This is bullshit and Democrats fell right in it.