General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNot All Men Are Pigs.
But the ones who are, are swine. And lets stop pretending that we didnt know.
BY LYNN SHERR | NOVEMBER 29, 2017
One splendid July day five years ago, during the last presidential campaign when the bar of civility rested comfortably above the waist, I traveled to New Hampshire to interview Republican candidate Mitt Romney for a magazine piece. Before my sit-down with the governor and his wife, there was a photo shoot, and at the request of the photographer I stood back quietly, out of the way. It wasnt my turn, and I was happy to watch as he engaged the couple, snapping away before their lakeside home for the perfect cover image. Hed shot the Romneys before, and kept up a pleasant patter to keep them relaxed and lens-ready. At one point, with Romney about to attend the Summer Olympics in London, the cameraman zoomed in and asked playfully, If youd been an Olympic athlete, what sport might you have played?
The truth? For most of these men, the response from those who knew them best was, more commonly, Well, its about time. Not to mention the ones were waiting to hear about.
Romneys eyes twinkled as if hed been waiting for the question. Womens beach volleyball, he shot back, with a satisfied, boys-will-be-boys grin. The entourage chuckled. The candidate beamed. And his press person, clearly unaware that a founding feminist lurked in the wings, nudged me and whispered, smirking, He likes the uniforms.
I rolled my eyes. I was ever-so-slightly offended. But I neither complained nor used it in the piece. Mormon humor, I figured. And nowhere near as tacky as strapping your dog to the top of your car for a cross-country trip. Boys, even 65-year-old would-be presidents, will be boys.
I recall this previously unreported moment in American politico-sexual history out of nostalgia for the sort of mindless insults that every woman in the world has endured for centuries. Yes, they make you uncomfortable, because a man with whom you think you have a business relationship is fixating instead on naked or near-naked female bodies. But unless the striptease moves from fantasy to fact, the moment passes. We are used to it. We sigh. We move on and our clothing stays put.
Mitt Romney, at least that day in New Hampshire, was not guilty of sexual abuse. Just sexual boorishness. Theres a difference.
Not all men are pigs.
Certainly not Winston Churchill, who, in the stirring new movie The Darkest Hour, about his daunting role shaping the allied victory over Nazi Germany, terrifies his new secretary with his gruffness, his demands and his dictation of letters from the bedroom while wearing only his bedclothes. In bed.
As the film presents it, Churchills lifetime love affair with his beloved wife, Clemmie, precluded any Charlie Rose moments with unsuspecting underlings. More important, the life-and-death demands of wartime London removed the stigma from any such impropriety. His state of undress reflected the urgency of the moment, not the passions of an unleashed id. Or maybe just a weird guy. But not a sex fiend.
Not all men are pigs. No matter their politics.
Read the entire article at:
http://billmoyers.com/story/not-all-men-are-pigs-but-the-ones-who-are-are-swine/
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)my husband, my son and my sons in law are joys in my life. My male friends are wonderful, too. I guess I am just lucky...
whathehell
(29,067 posts)because I, too, have great men in my life but I HAVE experienced my share of Pigs. I can't imagine how you managed to avoid them, but lucky you!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)when I was in college...and a bad thing happened to me. I survived, but I had repressed it...
whathehell
(29,067 posts)about your earlier bad experience.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)My attacker had died in a motorcycle accident soon after and it just disappeared from my memory...he could never come back and attack me again and I was glad he had died. I had talked to a psychologist about it and I was in peace. It's all OK now...
lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)In any segment of society. Any demographic, profession, faith, nationality, on and on.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 29, 2017, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)
The way we show our children the respect we hold for each member of our family...this starts with family values .
SharonAnn
(13,772 posts)I can remember countless times where, when I was the only woman in a group of 100+ professionals, that one or two men would give me a really hard time at the social hour gatherings of our conferences. They would come over, ask me all sorts of sexual questions (What position do you like? Do you like long or thick?, etc.). The men with whom I was conversing would look uncomfortable, look away, or leave the group, but none of them ever confronted the swine and told him to "Stop that kind of talk! It's inappropriate". Nor did they take the swine away. They left it to me to deal with it while they all watched or slinked away.
Just one man saying "Swine, stop that! Don't be a jerk!" might've led the others to join in and the swine could've slunk away instead.
When I asked them later why they didn't step in, they said they didn't know what to do and besides, I could handle it.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)I WOULD KICK HIS ASS
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)I mean, look at the video below. See how many people are right there when someone has an accident and recognize how many just keep walking away even though they saw someone get hurt or in a bad space. Some may linger briefly but hardly anyone from my recollection actually goes to check or help anyone in these
And that's just a simple "pratfall" kind of situation. With the "general population" being more prudish in public/social settings in things regarding sex, most would do just as you said, look uncomfortable or walk away. And there's a whole host of situational reasons why they'd do that instead of getting involved.
maranadem
(54 posts)As a young man i was what could only be called very attractive. Attractive enough that i never had to hit on women. They hit on me. I also grew up in the Height Ashburry during the 60s and 70s. Free love was, how can I put this? Lets just say that I slept with probably more than my shareof women. I liked sex. At 67, i still do. Im not overweight and still have a full head of hair but i dont turn many heads anymore. Im old. I get it. Its O.K. To me, what made sex good, and i assign this at least a 60% rating, was the fact that the women i slept with wanted me as much as i wanted them. I cant imagine forcing myself on a women. Whats the point? You might as well fuck a blowup doll.
I spent my life in the building trades. Were we crude in those days? Probably. The wall behind the welding bench at one shop i worked in was covered in Playboy centerfolds but nobody EVER talked about women the way trump talked on that bus. Nobody!
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)Romney, in that situation, made an incorrect remark. It's just not politically savvy, but to err is human.
As for the volleyball remark when asked the question, I can easily see myself saying the same thing as a joke.
Hell, my gay teenage daughter would probably say the same thing.
So I guess I'll just be a pig, or a boor if they prefer, for saying that jokingly.
eleny
(46,166 posts)I saw an interview she gave several years ago. She described working in the White House for Johnson and how he'd have her come to the bathroom for a meeting while he was on the pot. Here's her quote from a 2014 interview and a link to that NPR interview.
"GOODWIN: ...I don't think I've ever met anybody as interesting as LBJ. I mean, who else, when they're in the middle of going to the bathroom, would have you come in and talk to them in the middle of it all?
SAGAL: Now wait a minute, we had heard that story about LBJ, that he would actually, in the middle of a conversation, often with the press, just walk into the bathroom, lower his pants, do his business while continuing the conversation. Did he do that with you?
GOODWIN: Yes."
https://www.npr.org/2014/01/18/263369125/not-my-job-historian-doris-kearns-goodwin-gets-quizzed-on-the-future