BREAKING: Five sailors injured, 10 missing after U.S. Navy destroyer collides with a merchant ship

[USALiberal]

The USS John S. McCain!!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/another-us-navy-destroyer-collides-with-a-merchant-ship-rescue-efforts-underway/2017/08/20/c42f15b2-8602-11e7-9ce7-9e175d8953fa_story.html

SEOUL — Ten U.S. Navy sailors are missing and five have been injured after the USS John S. McCain destroyer collided with an oil tanker near Singapore early Monday morning.

This is the second time in two months that a Navy destroyer based at the 7th Fleet’s home port of Yokosuka, Japan, has been involved in a collision. Seven sailors were killed when the USS Fitzgerald collided with a tanker south of Japan in June.

How the hell is this happening????

[malaise]

1. This is looking like a complete breakdown

in discipline

[USALiberal]

3. Imagine a terrorist ship loaded with explosives trying this! Makes no sense to me. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. The US navy does not blow merchant ships out of the water the way they would a terrorist ship.

Or would you want them to?

[Stuart G]

4. Insanity!!!...???

[malaise]

9. Did you read the report on the investigation of the Fitzgerald?

This is madness

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/18/544387493/uss-fitzgerald-leaders-punished-crew-is-praised-after-collision-with-cargo-ship
<snip>

USS Fitzgerald Leaders Punished, Crew Is Praised After Collision With Cargo Ship

The U.S. Navy has relieved the USS Fitzgerald's commander and two other senior leaders of their duties — and it's also praising the crew for saving their ship after the destroyer collided with a large Philippine-flagged container ship off the coast of Japan on June 17.

"It was also evident from this review that the entire Fitzgerald crew demonstrated real toughness that night," the Navy said. "Following the collision these Sailors responded with urgency, determination and creativity to save their ship."

Inadequate leadership and flawed teamwork contributed to the crash, the Navy said after releasing the findings of its investigation into the crash. It also blamed poor seamanship by the crews of both the guided-missile cruiser and the ACX Crystal, whose gross tonnage was triple that of the U.S. ship.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. This is looking like a bunch of reactionary people jumping to conclusions.

A complete breakdown in posting self-discipline.

Ships do not turn on a dime.

We do not know who was at fault. Perhaps the merchant ship said they'd change course one way and then at the last minute changed another way, too late for the US ship.

There are many ways this could have happened without fault of the US ship.

[whopis01]

38. No, it is the logical conclusion

The John McCain was the more maneuverable vessel in this incident by a long shot. Without mistakes being made, it wouldn't have been in a position to get hit by the tanker, regardless of what actions the tanker took.

The merchant vessel may very well have done things incorrectly. But it is virtually impossible for the merchant vessel's actions to have placed the McCain in an unavoidable collision situation without mistakes also being made aboard the McCain.

[cwydro]

47. I'm going to bet it's on us yet again.

Just like the previous one.

[suffragette]

23. A Navy destroyer and an oil tanker this time. Bad, bad news.

[jpak]

2. Asymmetric warfare?

[Not Ruth]

5. We need to hire better sailors

[USALiberal]

6. Or actually look at the radar more often! n/t

[gladium et scutum]

30. Maybe we look at the radar to often

and do not look round the areas nearer the ship with a set of binoculars often enough.

[The River]

42. Lack of Human Eyeballs

I was a Signalman/lookout on an old (#19) aircraft carrier. We reported on and watched everything within our 9 mile horizon, 24/7. Signalmen were eliminated in the early 2000's as unnecessary.

Modern technology is so much more reliable...

[Warpy]

17. The sailors have been great

but they're not the ones steering the ship.

[UTUSN]

29. I'm not Alerting this post but it hurts

[haveahart]

7. One more time and I think the merchants are sending the US a message.

How awful for our sailors. This is tragic. What will 45 say about this since he promised the best military ever. Will he blame this on Obama?

[USALiberal]

11. Or he will blame Hillary. n/t

[gratuitous]

20. Will Trump even know about it? I mean, he's on vacation

You know how it is after you get back to the office after being gone for a couple of weeks. Trump won't know about it for a week at least. Sad!

[smirkymonkey]

49. He was informed of it. His response? "That's too bad".

No kidding. That was his actual response. He is the worlds biggest asshole! I hate him more every single day.

[secondwind]

8. WTF

[UTUSN]

10. WHAT the hell, again?!1 I'm not over the nightmare from 2 months ago.

[dalton99a]

12. Another destroyer collision???

WTF

[underpants]

13. Again? Sorry for the loss. Someone's career is justifiably over.

[cwydro]

48. Absolutely it is.

There's no excuse for this level of incompetence.

[Yonnie3]

14. Link to Navy reports

http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/News/

Updating periodically

[USALiberal]

15. Thanks for this!! n/t

[TheBlackAdder]

16. ...

[yortsed snacilbuper]

18. I was a snipe,

I always depended on the deck apes not to run into anything.

[USALiberal]

19. Seems like that would be a high priority task. n/t

[sunonmars]

24. Trumps response was "that's too bad" and I am not joking

Just breaking on news now

[Nevernose]

25. Officers need to start being stationed at Ft Leavenworth

Assuming that they were responsible, even in a significant part. Examples need to be made.

I feel the same way about corporate officers when foreseeable accidents occur.

[Purveyor]

31. Hear, hear! eom

[BadgerMom]

26. I'm not in the Navy.

I don't believe my comments on this distant website need to conform to any idea of discipline. I AM a US voter and tax payer with a working brain and something seems amiss.

There have been 4 US ships involved in collisions in just over 12 months. The USS Louisiana, a sub, hit another Naval vessel off Washington state on 8/18/16. (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=96326) The USS Lake Champlain, a guided missile cruiser, hit a South Korean fishing boat on 5/9/17. (https://news.usni.org/2017/05/09/cruiser) These were followed by the collisions of the USS Fitzgerald and the USS McCain, the same class of ship out of the same port. Both ran into enormous ships, a cargo freighter and a tanker, in heavily trafficked waterways. I'm 64. I've been a news reader since my late teens. I feel secure stating this is unusual. I don't think the cluster of similar accidents is coincidence.

Additionally, this article caught my eye.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/amp/
The writer in New Scientist discusses "spoofing GPS." Merchant vessels in the Black Sea were made to appear to be 32 km inland. The article was picked up by the Daily Mail (ugh--I know) and their expert fretted over the potential for abuse of the technology, a technology developed in Russia.

I could not be more aware of how tinfoil-hat-looney-conspiracy-theorist this sounds. But I do think it's not beyond the realm of possibility today that this is cyber warfare. Will the CIC do anything? Will our generals and admirals stand for his inaction if he does nothing?

[SonofDonald]

34. You could be on to something there.

I bet that's a very plausible scenario, interesting, digital terrorism.

[SonofDonald]

35. Check this out

"It's From Aug 7th : Cyber threats prompt return of Radio for a Ship Navigation".

A post by femmedem in general discussion about exactly that issue, and ships going to radio navigation because of this threat.

[Dawson Leery]

27. Why so many collisions in the past year?

Something is very wrong here.

[CozyMystery]

28. A Look at Earlier Collisions Involving Navy Vessels (NYT)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/19/us/navy-ship-collisions-history.html?mcubz=0

See also, https://fas.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/NavalAccidents1945-1988.pdf (Neptune Paper No. 3: Naval Accidents 1945-1988)

[BamaRefugee]

32. Russian/Chinese electronic jamming of US instrumentation?

[sarisataka]

36. Can't jam

a Mk 1 Eyeball...

[BamaRefugee]

37. The article says it happened in darkness

I would assume there's a greater reliance on electronics when the Mk.1 eyeball is operating in it's least effective conditions? If someone is waiting to make a major and sudden change in course of a war ship until they can actually SEE an oncoming ship in the dark, maybe they need to review how things are taught to naval commanders?

[sarisataka]

39. People have sailed the seas

For several thousand years, half the time it was dark. I am 100% certain at least one of the ships had navigation lights on.

The rumor of steering issues on the destroyer is intriguing.

[BamaRefugee]

43. like I said Jamming the Steering! ;-)

who knows, but 4 incidences all alike in what, a year? It's WAAAAY past the "blame it on the skipper" stage.
I love the "several thousand years" line, are you getting a dig in on those "the Earth is 6000 years old" fundamentalists? nice job!

[sarisataka]

46. I'm not sure

How sail-by-wire the ABs are but that could be a vulnerability if they cannot quickly switch to manual steering.

I've always been willing to credit my Supreme Being with the ability to create a large, ancient, expanding, changing universe. Evolving is a nice term. Luckily this evolving universe has science so us poor monkeys can make heads or tails of it.

Now if anyone wishes to philosophically discuss the invisible, intangible, unprovable spiritual side, including if such exists, then science is less useful.

The age of the physical universe is definitely science.

[VigilantG]

33. And Trump wants so badly to privatize our military.

I sure don't like my thinking on this right now...seems suspicious though.

[uponit7771]

40. Logically a person who isnt versed in these matters would think for an instant the vessels are small

... but they're not, these vessels are huge !!!

[MineralMan]

41. Inattention, poor judgment, or a combination of both.

Last edited Mon Aug 21, 2017, 11:34 AM - Edit history (1)

That's a busy area for ship traffic, which means that everyone needs to be paying close attention and using good judgment to avoid such collisions. Unlike many merchant vessels, U.S. Navy ships have more than adequate staff on the bridge for navigation. They also have excellent radar systems and communications capabilities.

Someone dropped a ball or several balls who should have been busy avoiding such a collision. It's truly unfortunate to lose two guided missile destroyers in that area in such a short time.

Heads will roll over this, but that doesn't prevent anything. It simply punishes those who dropped those balls.

[BamaRefugee]

44. hmmmmm. "unfortunate to lose 2 guided missile destroyers" NEAR NORTH KOREA..interesting n/t

[malaise]

45. Based on the report for the Fitzgerald

your post seems logical and rational