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This message was self-deleted by its author (Doug the Dem) on Sat Aug 12, 2017, 04:23 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
JI7
(89,262 posts)save him from being held accoutable for his other actions .
he doesn't have the sense of "for the good of country" "good of others".
it's all about him. he would not feel bad about any innocent lives lost either the way LBJ did. he would not be troubled over others being hurt.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)brooklynite
(94,721 posts)queentonic
(243 posts)For once Congress has asserted itself by telling Trump he has to get their approval under the War Powers Act before doing anything militarily against North Korea. This tells the Joint Chiefs of Staff to ignore any commands from the Trump should he decide to act alone. Twice now the Pentagon has ignored the Trumpster and his tweets - the lost air craft carrier and the transgender tweet. People don't seem to appreciate the significance of this. Not only is the Trumpster at odds with Congress, the media, his own executive branch and his own party, but the military as well. He's really hemmed in.
Doug the Dem
(1,297 posts)I want as many people here to read this as possible.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Simply using profanity and capital letters does little to change anyone's mind.
I tend to agree - there will probably not be a nuclear confrontation. Not because of these boy-kings, but because cooler heads will prevail, advisors who have thought this through a bit more will keep the situation under control.
Doug the Dem
(1,297 posts)S/he agreed with my view, so I asked for the Rec.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)if you noticed, I also agreed with you
Chemisse
(30,817 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Sucha NastyWoman
(2,749 posts)Barbara Lee's bill to end the Authorization for the Use of Military Force was shot down by Ryan and the house leadership. Did I miss some new development on this?
Calista241
(5,586 posts)The President. That is a straight up fact. Anyone who doesn't think the US military will act when ordered to do so is deluding themselves.
Late in July, Admiral Scott Swift, commander of US Pacific Fleet, said he'd launch nuclear weapons on China if ordered to do so. He said that in response to a question at a conference in Australia.
His exact quote was:
Every member of the U.S. military has sworn an oath to defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and to obey the officers and the president of the United States as commander and chief appointed over us, Swift said.
This is core to the American democracy and any time you have a military that is moving away from a focus and an allegiance to civilian control, then we really have a significant problem, he added.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/07/27/u-s-pacific-fleet-commander-id-launch-nuclear-strike-against-china-if-trump-ordered/515410001/
Cosmocat
(14,571 posts)People who think otherwise have a real, and fundamental, lack of knowledge over the process in place.
lapfog_1
(29,219 posts)technically, the U.S. and North Korea never ended the last Korean War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Armistice_Agreement
there was a cease fire but no peace agreement.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Now if he wants to fight a protracted war, he'll need to work with Congress on how to get them to pay for it, but by then any conflict in Korea will be over.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)His past history points to "all talk, no action". He uses his big mouth as his main weapon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-has-been-making-ominous-threats-his-whole-life/2017/08/10/68e69646-7e0d-11e7-9d08-b79f191668ed_story.html?utm_term=.1a9ac069167d&wpisrc=nl_opinions&wpmm=1
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 11, 2017, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)
Desperate people do desperate things
VOX
(22,976 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:12 AM - Edit history (1)
He is consistent in ONE thing only: bringing chaos.
Who really knows what he's capable of? Hopefully, nothing major, of course. But is he a man near cracking up? I don't know for certain, but from what I've seen (and I've been around awhile), I wouldn't rule it out.
I'm convinced that there's something deeply dark going on with this wreck of an "administration." They're either deliberately trying to "de-construct" (per Bannon) the country, or they're terribly inept, bumbling, incompetent. Either scenario is not good.
AnotherMother4Peace
(4,251 posts)bdamomma
(63,919 posts)Bannon's wet dream, he's another sick a$$ person too.
gordianot
(15,243 posts)In spite of Trump's stupid rhetoric North Korea is playing a dangerous game.
Squinch
(50,993 posts)I don't share your confidence.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)OK
whathehell
(29,090 posts)Sucha NastyWoman
(2,749 posts)But then, I didn't think there was anyway that Trump could win the electoral college either. How anyone can have any certainty about anything that he can affect is hard for me to understand.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)As crazy as Rump and Kim Jong-un are, they don't want to die.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)There's no guarantee that he'd even understand the full consequences of such an action. He might think his nice friend Xi would just sit aside and watch.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I doubt the idiot is demented enough to start a war, when he would be the enemy's primary target.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Aside from which, Trump is not going to die if he launches a nuclear attack on North Korea.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)All hat no cattle.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)DPRK is not the Soviet Union which had the capability of bouncing the rubble here a few times over.
We don't even know that DPRK has the capability to put an operational nuclear weapon onto a missile.
A regional conflagration on the Korean Peninsula which kills millions is no skin off his back.
He's in no personal danger.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)This is the last time I will reply to you.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I doubt he sees any downside at all.
In all likelihood, he probably figures that an all out first strike would eliminate their ability to retaliate with what few weapons they have.
Whether they pound the crap out of Seoul or Tokyo is not his problem.
He is a sociopath. Consequences to others do not factor in to his decision process.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)The malignant narcissist will do something that he doesn't THINK will get him killed to preserve his oh so fragile self-concept. Whether he is an accurate judge of the consequences of his actions is, well, amply covered in most history books for starters. A narcissist is not a coward in the sense that he won't do risky things.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Where do you get the idea that a narcissist is NOT a coward?
DSM-5 criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture. This
pattern is manifested in two (or more) of the following areas:
1. Cognition (i.e., ways of perceiving and interpreting self,
other people and events)
2. Affectivity (i.e., the range, intensity, liability, and
appropriateness of emotional response)
3. Interpersonal functioning
4. Impulse control
B. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad
range of personal and social situations.
C. The enduring pattern leads to clinically significant distress or
impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of
functioning.
D. The pattern is stable and of long duration, and its onset can be
traced back at least to adolescence or early adulthood.
E. The enduring pattern is not better accounted for as a manifestation
or consequence of another mental disorder.
F. The enduring pattern is not due to the direct physiological effects
of a substance (e.g., a drug abuse, a medication) or a general
medical condition (e.g., head trauma).
The essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in
personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of
pathological personality traits. To diagnose a personality disorder,
the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in self (identity or self-direction) and
interpersonal (empathy or intimacy) functioning.
B. One or more pathological personality trait domains or trait facets.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and
consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not better understood as
normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or sociocultural
environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct
physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse,
medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head
trauma).
© 2012 American Psychiatric Association. All Rights
http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/carrerasdegrado/psicologia/sitios_catedras/practicas_profesionales/820_clinica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf
Sugar Smack
(18,748 posts)several well-appointed & fully-stocked underground bunkers to choose from, whoever gets nuked.
And no one ever does anything that could foreseeably get them killed.
lindysalsagal
(20,727 posts)They're both just playing to their own bases.
Iggo
(47,564 posts)Voltaire2
(13,134 posts)I'm not as certain that the idiot we have won't.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)Voltaire2
(13,134 posts)they were explicitly put on the list of nations that were going to be destroyed by our government after 9-11. The only clear path to avoiding that fate is to develop a nuclear deterrent, and that is what they are doing.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)metalbot
(1,058 posts)Yes, I think it's unlikely that N Korea would intentionally attack a US target.
That being said, firing missiles designed to hit 25 miles off Guam is effectively starting a war. I don't care who's president at that point - there's going to be a military response designed to ensure that no more missiles are fired at Guam. Is that response "starting a war", or was it the missile launch that started the war? Or would it be the response from N Korea at that point that "starts the war"?
Voltaire2
(13,134 posts)Tossing a missile into the ocean, which is so far all they have done, is just what other nations testing missiles do.
The bluster from Kim is just that, bluster. The North Koreans do not respond submissively to threats, which is why past administrations have avoided this sort of pissing contest. Instead they just raise the stakes.
They've joined the nuclear club. We need to accept that reality and tone down the rhetoric. Stalinist regimes appear to have a life span of around 70 years. We should just wait for the natural end of the Kim era.
samnsara
(17,635 posts)LexVegas
(6,093 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)edhopper
(33,612 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
Aristus
(66,450 posts)the "APPEASEMENT!" screamers show up...
If we don't go to war against North Korea, does that mean Kim Jong-Un is going to annex the Czech Republic?
edhopper
(33,612 posts)but thank you for playing.
Where is Trump being diplomatic?
Aristus
(66,450 posts)That includes Canada, which has sent two envoys to NK to help calm things down...
edhopper
(33,612 posts)to Chamberlain, saying everyone involved, namely us and NK will act responsibly.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)He might actually be convinced that he would win such a confrontation. It's actually quite horrifying to realize that Hitler might have been more realistic than the President of the USA is today. Nazi-Germany had a very real chance of winning, and decided to take the chance. tRump? He might just be willing to take the chance to have a "short, victorious war" in order to silence the criticism of the media and the investigations. Anyone who has not realized that this is a very real threat are ostriches putting their heads in the sand.
ADX
(1,622 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Trump won't win the Republican primaries! Trump won't win the general election! Trump won't be president! We'd never elect an overly-emotional, hysterical, half-witted man-child who throws daily electronic temper tantrums!
A year ago, my prognostications sounded as rational and as level headed as yours.
spanone
(135,866 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)Trump being President escalates the likelihood of scores of "black swan" risks like war with NK.
Perhaps no once scenario makes it above a 5% chance of actually happening, but in the aggregate, it becomes more and more likely that one of them eventually hits. You can only dodge a bullet so many times.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)North Korea has been blustering and threatening destruction to the US for many years. Usually, they get rewarded for their bluster by gifts of money/food.
They won't do a thing but make a lot of noise and hope for a negotiated package of more aid.
FSogol
(45,524 posts)bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)BEIJING China wont come to North Koreas help if it launches missiles threatening U.S. soil and there is retaliation, a state-owned newspaper warned on Friday, but it would intervene if Washington strikes first.
The Global Times newspaper is not an official mouthpiece of the Communist Party, but in this case its editorial probably does reflect government policy and can be considered semiofficial, experts said.
China has repeatedly warned both Washington and Pyongyang not to do anything that raises tensions or causes instability on the Korean Peninsula, and strongly reiterated that suggestion Friday.
The current situation on the Korean Peninsula is complicated and sensitive, Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said in a statement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92_story.html?utm_term=.8c04c7abc70d
The ball is in Lil Kim and Dennis Rodman's court.
Old Vet
(2,001 posts)Actually Trump is loving this bullshit since its taking the eye off the Russia investigation.
bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)It wouldn't surprise me if he dropped a couple of nukes in NK after that happens.
Catmusicfan
(816 posts)to launch a nuclear weapon. We have never had a President like Trump before. I will only speak for myself BUT I don't trust that nut job. I am scare he will launch something.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts).....if that happens wtf do you think trump is gonna do?
LeftInTX
(25,532 posts)He knows it.
I don't know how crazy Kim is. I can't predict what he will do. But so far it seems everything he has done has been "for show".
SweetieD
(1,660 posts)God to them. So say Kim retreats to zambia and orders the launch. It wouldn't be suicide for him but would be for his people. But he would not care.
Just thinking about how many African leaders have created wars in their homeland and then immediately went into exile while their people fight it out.
LeftInTX
(25,532 posts)I don't think he's going to leave.
If he leaves and orders a launch, he can never return. He would have to spend the rest of his life in exile in Zambia.
Nuclear weapons are not involved in Africa.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)Not panicking, just angry that this idiot is tweeting this shit. Waking up every single day to this stupidity is getting tiresome.
Demit
(11,238 posts)mcar
(42,372 posts)yellowcanine
(35,701 posts)WELL ALRIGHTY THEN!
Eh. As if an all out conventional war would be much better!
brush
(53,840 posts)They're ready to ... er, ah ... trump, any nutso ass whim he gets vis-a-vis the nuclear codes (please,
please, please, oh please let this be so).
dlk
(11,575 posts)Zambero
(8,965 posts)I'm hoping you are absolutely correct. However, I still recall all those assurances that Trump was "unelectable". He would most certainly lose in a landslide and take scores of down ticket GOP legislators with him. Sometimes a terrible situation is made worse by the false assurances that precede it. We're in uncharted territory at the moment, and relying on the likes of Donald Trump to remain level headed in a crisis is beyond delusional, given his potential for creating them on his own. Carefully chosen words and actions saw us through the Cuban missile crisis. Given the irrationality and unpredictability of two self-serving individuals with their backs to the wall here and in North Korea, I'm plenty concerned at the moment.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,831 posts)I feel much better now.
MFM008
(19,818 posts)A 100 percent guarantee please since your statement is so definitive.
Demsrule86
(68,657 posts)sarisataka
(18,765 posts)However I am also concerned about a conventional war on the Korean peninsula.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)In 1914 it was "obvious" to quite a few people that there wasn't going to be a general European war. Just a few days after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, people in Sarajevo were going on with their normal lives. The newspapers in France devoted all their attention to a sensational sex-scandal-murder-trial that was in progress. The government of the United Kingdom was focused on the politics of an Irish home rule bill. Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, who had interrupted his vacation after the death of his friend the Archduke, went back on vacation.
And yet, one thing was leading to another. Some of the national leaders involved were pig-headed, they were ignorant about the other countries and they believed what they wanted to believe, and they were afraid of looking weak. (Sound like any contemporary leaders you can think of?)
In the present case, I think it more likely than not that there will NOT be a war. Nevertheless, I don't agree with completely dismissing the possibility.
Incidentally, for anyone interested in history, I can recommend A World Undone: The Story of the Great War, 1914 to 1918 by G. J. Meyer. I'm "reading" the audiobook narrated by Robin Sachs. I'm still only up to September 1914 but I already feel confident in praising both the writing and the narration.
SweetieD
(1,660 posts)happen until it does. There will be another world war and the question isn't if but when. Will it happen in our lifetime or a 100 years from now.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)as well. Although my reading has made it clear that a general feeling that war was coming was, for a variety of reasons, in the air, it does also seem like the actual start of the war was a bunch of armies that went off when no one was looking.
0rganism
(23,968 posts)guess they didn't want that shit in their neighborhood, and they found a solution where our government couldn't find its ass with a map
apnu
(8,758 posts)You said "fuck" in the title, but "heck" in the body. Why take your foot off the gas at all?
Once you go to "fuck", you're committed, so embrace it. I do.
malaise
(269,157 posts)That simple
Iggo
(47,564 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)gives the order to launch a massive nuclear strike on NK it will be carried out in minutes, you can bet your life on it.
I'm not saying its a good thing, but I am saying without a doubt that order will be carried out.
Here are the steps that lead to WW3 or whatever it is that Dolt 45 would unleash on humanity:
To Launch a Nuclear Strike, Donald Trump Would Follow These Steps
By Dave Merrill, Nafeesa Syeed and Brittany Harris
Updated January 20, 2017
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-nuclear-weapon-launch/
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)moda253
(615 posts)Thanks.
Enorgnoz
(8 posts)Source: http://rudepundit.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/advice-to-young-folk-freaking-out-about.html
2. Most of what you're hearing is public relations bullshit. Trump has a bunch of brain-damaged yahoos who thrill to his fake John Wayne act. Kim Jong Un needs his poor, starving people to think that everyone else wants to kill them and only Kim can protect them. (So, really, they're not so different.) But behind the scenes, there are constant negotiations and dialogues with people actually skilled at this sort of thing trying to figure shit out. This was true during the Soviet/U.S. standoff, and it's true now.
Just sayin'.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)The same. Trump is playing right into Fat Totalitarian 3's hands by spewing action movie one liners.
Propaganda for the gibbering masses here is perfectly complementary for propaganda to the cowering masses there.
Otherwise Trump has already cemented his reputation as a ineffective leader and a pathological liar.
Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)That settles it!
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)It's scary to hear him use the soldiers as pawns in his war games but it's also fucked up to hear Senator Graham talking about working around Congress to execute them. Hopefully sanity prevails.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)refuse.
Trump will cause the death of one billion people if it would protect him from mueller, sorry you havent figured that out yet
hunter
(38,325 posts)All the news on TV is "reality TV news" which is why I don't watch it. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, all of it.
Of course that's why Trump is president, too many people believe that shit.
Our mass media is a shit cannon. Trump is using it to hide his own criminality as a money launderer for Russian oligarchs, as a reality show television pretend billionaire, as a creepy old man pervert who walks into the dressing rooms of teenagers, and as a guy who can't see his own penis in the bathroom mirror.
North Korea is being it's usual kindergarten playground bully self and it's pretty God Damned fucking pathetic we have a kindergarten bully president who is responding to them in kind.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)For the record they're not going to Nuke each other either.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)retaliates for TRUMP's pre-emptive strike.
kcr
(15,320 posts)For one thing, we've never had a certifiably insane, unpredictable president before. For another, a nuclear war isn't the only thing to worry about.
WoonTars
(694 posts)....
jmowreader
(50,562 posts)Trump isn't going to start an unprovoked nuclear war. There is no chance he stays in office if he does. It'll either be impeachment, the 25th Amendment, or one of the 300 generals Trump has surrounded himself with is going to decide the Commander in Chief is subject to the UCMJ and charge him with all 57 punitive articles in the UCMJ.
KJU has a bigger problem: if he launches a nuclear-tipped missile there's a good chance it'll land somewhere they didn't intend it to go, and a better chance his generals will shoot him.
So...sabers will rattle really loud, but that's it.
TacoD
(581 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)I think it will calm down, but with Trump, anything is possible.
Bradshaw3
(7,529 posts)Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)Of course I'm scared shitless because we have two madmen running NKorea & the US.
ImpeachTheGOP
(89 posts)On both sides.
doc03
(35,363 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,927 posts)While his handlers can do whatever they want behind the scenes.