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Doug the Dem

(1,297 posts)
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:05 AM Aug 2017

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (Doug the Dem) on Sat Aug 12, 2017, 04:23 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Original Post) Doug the Dem Aug 2017 OP
you never know with Trump. i think he would easily attack just to distract or if he thinks it will JI7 Aug 2017 #1
I think if he had the power to do it....he already would have. cbdo2007 Aug 2017 #54
Name ANY instance of a Trump action the exhibits strategic intent brooklynite Aug 2017 #100
I agree with no war queentonic Aug 2017 #2
Please Rec Doug the Dem Aug 2017 #3
you might try to explain your position a bit more and tone down the hyperbole DrDan Aug 2017 #18
The request was directed at queentonic Doug the Dem Aug 2017 #94
it was just some friendly advise that, you apparently are not interested in . . . and DrDan Aug 2017 #95
If you provided a good argument for your opinion, I would rec. n/t Chemisse Aug 2017 #30
Lol. No. nt cwydro Aug 2017 #55
Last I remember Sucha NastyWoman Aug 2017 #10
The military is not going to ignore orders from their superiors, and that includes Calista241 Aug 2017 #15
T H I S Cosmocat Aug 2017 #39
I don't believe that Trump feels he needs Congress lapfog_1 Aug 2017 #31
He absolutely doesn't need Congress to start a war. Calista241 Aug 2017 #46
plus he's a bluffer and a coward ginnyinWI Aug 2017 #52
And tRump would never win the election njhoneybadger Aug 2017 #4
Honestly? I'm worried because I don't know the full capacity of tRump's insanity... VOX Aug 2017 #5
He is a mentally ill person who is unstable and delusional. He cares for no one. nt AnotherMother4Peace Aug 2017 #49
this could be bdamomma Aug 2017 #78
As long as there are no missile tests toward US territory. gordianot Aug 2017 #6
Glad you are so confident that Trump(R) or the baby dictator will not do anything stupid. Squinch Aug 2017 #7
Well since it was in CAPS....... Not Ruth Aug 2017 #8
Lol...Yes, since it's in CAPS, I guess we've gotta believe!! whathehell Aug 2017 #11
I hope you are right Sucha NastyWoman Aug 2017 #9
It has to do with self-preservation. MoonRiver Aug 2017 #12
Trump is an idiot though with almost no grasp of complex matters Kentonio Aug 2017 #21
The most basic human instinct is the will to live. MoonRiver Aug 2017 #25
Nonsense - Suicide is one of the most common causes of death jberryhill Aug 2017 #33
The malignant narcissist will NEVER risk his privileged arse and position. MoonRiver Aug 2017 #38
What risk does he face? jberryhill Aug 2017 #43
He would risk everything if your scenario happened. MoonRiver Aug 2017 #44
"Everything" is somewhat meaningless jberryhill Aug 2017 #45
I Disagree RobinA Aug 2017 #76
I Disagree. MoonRiver Aug 2017 #90
A complete waste of oxygen like trump probably has Sugar Smack Aug 2017 #40
Right. RobinA Aug 2017 #73
Can anyone name what they're fighting over? A boundary? Resources? lindysalsagal Aug 2017 #13
Hurt fee-fees. Iggo Aug 2017 #66
I agree it is unlikely that North Korea will start a war. Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #14
My hunch is Kim is possibly more mentally stable than tRump! n/t RKP5637 Aug 2017 #53
I agree, 100%. Nt adigal Aug 2017 #99
Ignoring the fact tha NK is a totalitarian hell hole Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #101
Yep! He's seen what happens to nations that give it up. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2017 #104
How do you define "start a war"? metalbot Aug 2017 #106
Starting a war would involve an attack. Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #108
not on purpose.... samnsara Aug 2017 #16
Link? nt LexVegas Aug 2017 #17
good post DrDan Aug 2017 #19
Well that was convincing. MrsCoffee Aug 2017 #20
I am sure everyone will be reasonable edhopper Aug 2017 #22
Ah yes; every time a devastating war is avoided through diplomacy, Aristus Aug 2017 #69
Not the point edhopper Aug 2017 #83
You said 'everyone'. Aristus Aug 2017 #85
I was comparing the OP edhopper Aug 2017 #86
It might go over some people's heads that tRump can be compared to Hitler KitSileya Aug 2017 #92
Even if it doesn't go nuclear, a conventional war would be devastating enough... ADX Aug 2017 #23
A year ago all my prognostications sounded as rational as yours. LanternWaste Aug 2017 #24
tell that to the fucking 'president' spanone Aug 2017 #26
It's unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibility. dawg Aug 2017 #27
Agree, people are over-reacting FLPanhandle Aug 2017 #28
Exactly, China (the world's newest superpower) won't allow it to happen. n/t FSogol Aug 2017 #29
China warns North Korea: Youre on your own if you go after the United States bathroommonkey76 Aug 2017 #32
IMHO knowing china and russia wont have there back has to be most concerning.......... Old Vet Aug 2017 #71
I'll hate to see what Trump does once the indictments are handed down. bathroommonkey76 Aug 2017 #72
Why is it that people forget that the President doesn't need congress' permission Catmusicfan Aug 2017 #34
NK may see their only course of action is to launch a preemptive attack on South Korea beachbum bob Aug 2017 #35
I thought of this, but it would be suicide for Kim LeftInTX Aug 2017 #57
Would it be? Kim might order it from a place of exile. His military would do it because he is a SweetieD Aug 2017 #58
He's enjoying being "The Supreme Leader" of NK LeftInTX Aug 2017 #60
I'll calm down when Trump is removed. liberalmuse Aug 2017 #36
Oh well if you say so. Demit Aug 2017 #37
AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW? mcar Aug 2017 #41
THAT'S SUPPOSED TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER? yellowcanine Aug 2017 #42
I'm going with you. trump maybe crazy but the generals aren't brush Aug 2017 #47
So Glad You Have a Crystal Ball and Can Predict the Behavior of Madmen. I Feel So Much Better dlk Aug 2017 #48
I would like to believe that Zambero Aug 2017 #50
Well, since the statement is in all-caps, it must be true. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2017 #51
Give me MFM008 Aug 2017 #56
And what do you bring to the topic? Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #59
Good to know, Now I can sleep sarisataka Aug 2017 #61
I happen right now to be reading a book about World War I. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #62
I agree completely. I was thinking of wwi as well but no one believes the worst will SweetieD Aug 2017 #68
I Was Thinking WWI RobinA Aug 2017 #80
thanks to China weighing in today, i tend to agree 0rganism Aug 2017 #63
I have to point this out. apnu Aug 2017 #64
+1,000 malaise Aug 2017 #65
I tend to agree. Iggo Aug 2017 #67
If Trump as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America workinclasszero Aug 2017 #70
I like your style, dude Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #74
Can you stop yelling at everyone and telling them to calm down? moda253 Aug 2017 #75
The Rude Pundit agrees. Enorgnoz Aug 2017 #77
No. 2 Exactly Thomas Hurt Aug 2017 #81
Well then Tiggeroshii Aug 2017 #79
Ok then Lotusflower70 Aug 2017 #82
When Mueller gets closer, he will order nuke attack, lets hope the generals Eliot Rosewater Aug 2017 #84
There is news, and then there is "reality TV news." hunter Aug 2017 #87
No but China and India look like they may be popping off on the border so get ready elehhhhna Aug 2017 #88
I disagree... there is zero chance that either TRUMP or Kim backs down. We will die when China Still In Wisconsin Aug 2017 #89
Sorry. There are a lot of reasons to be scared. kcr Aug 2017 #91
It certainly won't START that way...but it could eventually lead there.... WoonTars Aug 2017 #93
Here's what I figure jmowreader Aug 2017 #96
I partially agree but I disagree with "calm the heck down." This is an extraordinary time (nt) TacoD Aug 2017 #97
And you know this how? Sources? adigal Aug 2017 #98
I'm having visions of Kevin Bacon screaming 'All is well' Bradshaw3 Aug 2017 #102
I Live in Hawaii Ccarmona Aug 2017 #103
Agreed. This is all a dog and pony show. ImpeachTheGOP Aug 2017 #105
I wouldn't bet the farm on that nt doc03 Aug 2017 #107
Someone I spoke to today suggested that it's Trump himself who is the distraction Rhiannon12866 Aug 2017 #109

JI7

(89,262 posts)
1. you never know with Trump. i think he would easily attack just to distract or if he thinks it will
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:13 AM
Aug 2017

save him from being held accoutable for his other actions .

he doesn't have the sense of "for the good of country" "good of others".

it's all about him. he would not feel bad about any innocent lives lost either the way LBJ did. he would not be troubled over others being hurt.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
54. I think if he had the power to do it....he already would have.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 10:09 AM
Aug 2017

brooklynite

(94,721 posts)
100. Name ANY instance of a Trump action the exhibits strategic intent
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:34 PM
Aug 2017

queentonic

(243 posts)
2. I agree with no war
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:46 AM
Aug 2017

For once Congress has asserted itself by telling Trump he has to get their approval under the War Powers Act before doing anything militarily against North Korea. This tells the Joint Chiefs of Staff to ignore any commands from the Trump should he decide to act alone. Twice now the Pentagon has ignored the Trumpster and his tweets - the lost air craft carrier and the transgender tweet. People don't seem to appreciate the significance of this. Not only is the Trumpster at odds with Congress, the media, his own executive branch and his own party, but the military as well. He's really hemmed in.

 

Doug the Dem

(1,297 posts)
3. Please Rec
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:49 AM
Aug 2017

I want as many people here to read this as possible.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
18. you might try to explain your position a bit more and tone down the hyperbole
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:52 AM
Aug 2017

Simply using profanity and capital letters does little to change anyone's mind.

I tend to agree - there will probably not be a nuclear confrontation. Not because of these boy-kings, but because cooler heads will prevail, advisors who have thought this through a bit more will keep the situation under control.

 

Doug the Dem

(1,297 posts)
94. The request was directed at queentonic
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 04:34 PM
Aug 2017

S/he agreed with my view, so I asked for the Rec.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
95. it was just some friendly advise that, you apparently are not interested in . . . and
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:17 PM
Aug 2017

if you noticed, I also agreed with you

Chemisse

(30,817 posts)
30. If you provided a good argument for your opinion, I would rec. n/t
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:34 AM
Aug 2017
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
55. Lol. No. nt
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 10:09 AM
Aug 2017

Sucha NastyWoman

(2,749 posts)
10. Last I remember
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:05 AM
Aug 2017

Barbara Lee's bill to end the Authorization for the Use of Military Force was shot down by Ryan and the house leadership. Did I miss some new development on this?

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
15. The military is not going to ignore orders from their superiors, and that includes
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:25 AM
Aug 2017

The President. That is a straight up fact. Anyone who doesn't think the US military will act when ordered to do so is deluding themselves.

Late in July, Admiral Scott Swift, commander of US Pacific Fleet, said he'd launch nuclear weapons on China if ordered to do so. He said that in response to a question at a conference in Australia.

His exact quote was:

“Every member of the U.S. military has sworn an oath to defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and to obey the officers and the president of the United States as commander and chief appointed over us,” Swift said.

“This is core to the American democracy and any time you have a military that is moving away from a focus and an allegiance to civilian control, then we really have a significant problem,” he added.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/07/27/u-s-pacific-fleet-commander-id-launch-nuclear-strike-against-china-if-trump-ordered/515410001/

Cosmocat

(14,571 posts)
39. T H I S
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:01 AM
Aug 2017

People who think otherwise have a real, and fundamental, lack of knowledge over the process in place.

lapfog_1

(29,219 posts)
31. I don't believe that Trump feels he needs Congress
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:39 AM
Aug 2017

technically, the U.S. and North Korea never ended the last Korean War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Armistice_Agreement

there was a cease fire but no peace agreement.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
46. He absolutely doesn't need Congress to start a war.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:24 AM
Aug 2017

Now if he wants to fight a protracted war, he'll need to work with Congress on how to get them to pay for it, but by then any conflict in Korea will be over.

ginnyinWI

(17,276 posts)
52. plus he's a bluffer and a coward
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 10:04 AM
Aug 2017

njhoneybadger

(3,910 posts)
4. And tRump would never win the election
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 06:01 AM
Aug 2017

Last edited Fri Aug 11, 2017, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Desperate people do desperate things

VOX

(22,976 posts)
5. Honestly? I'm worried because I don't know the full capacity of tRump's insanity...
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 06:18 AM
Aug 2017

Last edited Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:12 AM - Edit history (1)

He is consistent in ONE thing only: bringing chaos.

Who really knows what he's capable of? Hopefully, nothing major, of course. But is he a man near cracking up? I don't know for certain, but from what I've seen (and I've been around awhile), I wouldn't rule it out.

I'm convinced that there's something deeply dark going on with this wreck of an "administration." They're either deliberately trying to "de-construct" (per Bannon) the country, or they're terribly inept, bumbling, incompetent. Either scenario is not good.

AnotherMother4Peace

(4,251 posts)
49. He is a mentally ill person who is unstable and delusional. He cares for no one. nt
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:57 AM
Aug 2017

bdamomma

(63,919 posts)
78. this could be
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:48 PM
Aug 2017

Bannon's wet dream, he's another sick a$$ person too.

gordianot

(15,243 posts)
6. As long as there are no missile tests toward US territory.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 06:22 AM
Aug 2017

In spite of Trump's stupid rhetoric North Korea is playing a dangerous game.

Squinch

(50,993 posts)
7. Glad you are so confident that Trump(R) or the baby dictator will not do anything stupid.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 06:28 AM
Aug 2017

I don't share your confidence.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
8. Well since it was in CAPS.......
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 06:40 AM
Aug 2017

OK

whathehell

(29,090 posts)
11. Lol...Yes, since it's in CAPS, I guess we've gotta believe!!
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:06 AM
Aug 2017

Sucha NastyWoman

(2,749 posts)
9. I hope you are right
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 06:59 AM
Aug 2017

But then, I didn't think there was anyway that Trump could win the electoral college either. How anyone can have any certainty about anything that he can affect is hard for me to understand.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
12. It has to do with self-preservation.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:10 AM
Aug 2017

As crazy as Rump and Kim Jong-un are, they don't want to die.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
21. Trump is an idiot though with almost no grasp of complex matters
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:59 AM
Aug 2017

There's no guarantee that he'd even understand the full consequences of such an action. He might think his nice friend Xi would just sit aside and watch.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
25. The most basic human instinct is the will to live.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:28 AM
Aug 2017

I doubt the idiot is demented enough to start a war, when he would be the enemy's primary target.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
33. Nonsense - Suicide is one of the most common causes of death
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:43 AM
Aug 2017

Aside from which, Trump is not going to die if he launches a nuclear attack on North Korea.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
38. The malignant narcissist will NEVER risk his privileged arse and position.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:00 AM
Aug 2017

All hat no cattle.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
43. What risk does he face?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:14 AM
Aug 2017

DPRK is not the Soviet Union which had the capability of bouncing the rubble here a few times over.

We don't even know that DPRK has the capability to put an operational nuclear weapon onto a missile.

A regional conflagration on the Korean Peninsula which kills millions is no skin off his back.

He's in no personal danger.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
44. He would risk everything if your scenario happened.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:17 AM
Aug 2017

This is the last time I will reply to you.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
45. "Everything" is somewhat meaningless
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:22 AM
Aug 2017

I doubt he sees any downside at all.

In all likelihood, he probably figures that an all out first strike would eliminate their ability to retaliate with what few weapons they have.

Whether they pound the crap out of Seoul or Tokyo is not his problem.

He is a sociopath. Consequences to others do not factor in to his decision process.

RobinA

(9,894 posts)
76. I Disagree
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:40 PM
Aug 2017

The malignant narcissist will do something that he doesn't THINK will get him killed to preserve his oh so fragile self-concept. Whether he is an accurate judge of the consequences of his actions is, well, amply covered in most history books for starters. A narcissist is not a coward in the sense that he won't do risky things.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
90. I Disagree.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 02:34 PM
Aug 2017

Where do you get the idea that a narcissist is NOT a coward?

DSM-5 criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

A. An enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior the deviates
markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture. This
pattern is manifested in two (or more) of the following areas:
1. Cognition (i.e., ways of perceiving and interpreting self,
other people and events)
2. Affectivity (i.e., the range, intensity, liability, and
appropriateness of emotional response)
3. Interpersonal functioning
4. Impulse control
B. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad
range of personal and social situations.
C. The enduring pattern leads to clinically significant distress or
impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of
functioning.
D. The pattern is stable and of long duration, and its onset can be
traced back at least to adolescence or early adulthood.
E. The enduring pattern is not better accounted for as a manifestation
or consequence of another mental disorder.
F. The enduring pattern is not due to the direct physiological effects
of a substance (e.g., a drug abuse, a medication) or a general
medical condition (e.g., head trauma).
The essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in
personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of
pathological personality traits. To diagnose a personality disorder,
the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in self (identity or self-direction) and
interpersonal (empathy or intimacy) functioning.
B. One or more pathological personality trait domains or trait facets.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and
consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not better understood as
normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or sociocultural
environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct
physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse,
medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head
trauma).
© 2012 American Psychiatric Association. All Rights


http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/carrerasdegrado/psicologia/sitios_catedras/practicas_profesionales/820_clinica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf

Sugar Smack

(18,748 posts)
40. A complete waste of oxygen like trump probably has
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:03 AM
Aug 2017

several well-appointed & fully-stocked underground bunkers to choose from, whoever gets nuked.

RobinA

(9,894 posts)
73. Right.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:32 PM
Aug 2017

And no one ever does anything that could foreseeably get them killed.


lindysalsagal

(20,727 posts)
13. Can anyone name what they're fighting over? A boundary? Resources?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:17 AM
Aug 2017

They're both just playing to their own bases.

Iggo

(47,564 posts)
66. Hurt fee-fees.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:06 PM
Aug 2017

Voltaire2

(13,134 posts)
14. I agree it is unlikely that North Korea will start a war.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:24 AM
Aug 2017

I'm not as certain that the idiot we have won't.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
53. My hunch is Kim is possibly more mentally stable than tRump! n/t
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 10:06 AM
Aug 2017
 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
99. I agree, 100%. Nt
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:24 PM
Aug 2017

Voltaire2

(13,134 posts)
101. Ignoring the fact tha NK is a totalitarian hell hole
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:38 PM
Aug 2017

they were explicitly put on the list of nations that were going to be destroyed by our government after 9-11. The only clear path to avoiding that fate is to develop a nuclear deterrent, and that is what they are doing.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
104. Yep! He's seen what happens to nations that give it up. n/t
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:55 PM
Aug 2017

metalbot

(1,058 posts)
106. How do you define "start a war"?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:19 PM
Aug 2017

Yes, I think it's unlikely that N Korea would intentionally attack a US target.

That being said, firing missiles designed to hit 25 miles off Guam is effectively starting a war. I don't care who's president at that point - there's going to be a military response designed to ensure that no more missiles are fired at Guam. Is that response "starting a war", or was it the missile launch that started the war? Or would it be the response from N Korea at that point that "starts the war"?

Voltaire2

(13,134 posts)
108. Starting a war would involve an attack.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:26 PM
Aug 2017

Tossing a missile into the ocean, which is so far all they have done, is just what other nations testing missiles do.

The bluster from Kim is just that, bluster. The North Koreans do not respond submissively to threats, which is why past administrations have avoided this sort of pissing contest. Instead they just raise the stakes.

They've joined the nuclear club. We need to accept that reality and tone down the rhetoric. Stalinist regimes appear to have a life span of around 70 years. We should just wait for the natural end of the Kim era.

samnsara

(17,635 posts)
16. not on purpose....
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:34 AM
Aug 2017

LexVegas

(6,093 posts)
17. Link? nt
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:35 AM
Aug 2017

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
19. good post
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:53 AM
Aug 2017

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
20. Well that was convincing.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:54 AM
Aug 2017

edhopper

(33,612 posts)
22. I am sure everyone will be reasonable
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:22 AM
Aug 2017

[IMG][/IMG]

Aristus

(66,450 posts)
69. Ah yes; every time a devastating war is avoided through diplomacy,
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:12 PM
Aug 2017

the "APPEASEMENT!" screamers show up...

If we don't go to war against North Korea, does that mean Kim Jong-Un is going to annex the Czech Republic?

edhopper

(33,612 posts)
83. Not the point
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:54 PM
Aug 2017

but thank you for playing.

Where is Trump being diplomatic?

Aristus

(66,450 posts)
85. You said 'everyone'.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:57 PM
Aug 2017

That includes Canada, which has sent two envoys to NK to help calm things down...

edhopper

(33,612 posts)
86. I was comparing the OP
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:59 PM
Aug 2017

to Chamberlain, saying everyone involved, namely us and NK will act responsibly.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
92. It might go over some people's heads that tRump can be compared to Hitler
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 03:24 PM
Aug 2017

He might actually be convinced that he would win such a confrontation. It's actually quite horrifying to realize that Hitler might have been more realistic than the President of the USA is today. Nazi-Germany had a very real chance of winning, and decided to take the chance. tRump? He might just be willing to take the chance to have a "short, victorious war" in order to silence the criticism of the media and the investigations. Anyone who has not realized that this is a very real threat are ostriches putting their heads in the sand.

 

ADX

(1,622 posts)
23. Even if it doesn't go nuclear, a conventional war would be devastating enough...
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:24 AM
Aug 2017
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
24. A year ago all my prognostications sounded as rational as yours.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:28 AM
Aug 2017

Trump won't win the Republican primaries! Trump won't win the general election! Trump won't be president! We'd never elect an overly-emotional, hysterical, half-witted man-child who throws daily electronic temper tantrums!

A year ago, my prognostications sounded as rational and as level headed as yours.

spanone

(135,866 posts)
26. tell that to the fucking 'president'
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:29 AM
Aug 2017

dawg

(10,624 posts)
27. It's unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibility.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:29 AM
Aug 2017

Trump being President escalates the likelihood of scores of "black swan" risks like war with NK.

Perhaps no once scenario makes it above a 5% chance of actually happening, but in the aggregate, it becomes more and more likely that one of them eventually hits. You can only dodge a bullet so many times.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
28. Agree, people are over-reacting
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:32 AM
Aug 2017

North Korea has been blustering and threatening destruction to the US for many years. Usually, they get rewarded for their bluster by gifts of money/food.

They won't do a thing but make a lot of noise and hope for a negotiated package of more aid.

FSogol

(45,524 posts)
29. Exactly, China (the world's newest superpower) won't allow it to happen. n/t
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:33 AM
Aug 2017
 

bathroommonkey76

(3,827 posts)
32. China warns North Korea: Youre on your own if you go after the United States
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:43 AM
Aug 2017

BEIJING — China won’t come to North Korea’s help if it launches missiles threatening U.S. soil and there is retaliation, a state-owned newspaper warned on Friday, but it would intervene if Washington strikes first.

The Global Times newspaper is not an official mouthpiece of the Communist Party, but in this case its editorial probably does reflect government policy and can be considered “semiofficial,” experts said.

China has repeatedly warned both Washington and Pyongyang not to do anything that raises tensions or causes instability on the Korean Peninsula, and strongly reiterated that suggestion Friday.

“The current situation on the Korean Peninsula is complicated and sensitive,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said in a statement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92_story.html?utm_term=.8c04c7abc70d


The ball is in Lil Kim and Dennis Rodman's court.

Old Vet

(2,001 posts)
71. IMHO knowing china and russia wont have there back has to be most concerning..........
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:26 PM
Aug 2017

Actually Trump is loving this bullshit since its taking the eye off the Russia investigation.

 

bathroommonkey76

(3,827 posts)
72. I'll hate to see what Trump does once the indictments are handed down.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:29 PM
Aug 2017

It wouldn't surprise me if he dropped a couple of nukes in NK after that happens.

Catmusicfan

(816 posts)
34. Why is it that people forget that the President doesn't need congress' permission
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:49 AM
Aug 2017

to launch a nuclear weapon. We have never had a President like Trump before. I will only speak for myself BUT I don't trust that nut job. I am scare he will launch something.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
35. NK may see their only course of action is to launch a preemptive attack on South Korea
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:50 AM
Aug 2017

.....if that happens wtf do you think trump is gonna do?

LeftInTX

(25,532 posts)
57. I thought of this, but it would be suicide for Kim
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 11:58 AM
Aug 2017

He knows it.

I don't know how crazy Kim is. I can't predict what he will do. But so far it seems everything he has done has been "for show".

SweetieD

(1,660 posts)
58. Would it be? Kim might order it from a place of exile. His military would do it because he is a
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 12:05 PM
Aug 2017

God to them. So say Kim retreats to zambia and orders the launch. It wouldn't be suicide for him but would be for his people. But he would not care.

Just thinking about how many African leaders have created wars in their homeland and then immediately went into exile while their people fight it out.

LeftInTX

(25,532 posts)
60. He's enjoying being "The Supreme Leader" of NK
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 12:35 PM
Aug 2017

I don't think he's going to leave.

If he leaves and orders a launch, he can never return. He would have to spend the rest of his life in exile in Zambia.

Nuclear weapons are not involved in Africa.

liberalmuse

(18,672 posts)
36. I'll calm down when Trump is removed.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:54 AM
Aug 2017

Not panicking, just angry that this idiot is tweeting this shit. Waking up every single day to this stupidity is getting tiresome.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
37. Oh well if you say so.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 08:55 AM
Aug 2017

mcar

(42,372 posts)
41. AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:04 AM
Aug 2017

yellowcanine

(35,701 posts)
42. THAT'S SUPPOSED TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:07 AM
Aug 2017

WELL ALRIGHTY THEN!

Eh. As if an all out conventional war would be much better!

brush

(53,840 posts)
47. I'm going with you. trump maybe crazy but the generals aren't
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:44 AM
Aug 2017

They're ready to ... er, ah ... trump, any nutso ass whim he gets vis-a-vis the nuclear codes (please,

please, please, oh please let this be so).

dlk

(11,575 posts)
48. So Glad You Have a Crystal Ball and Can Predict the Behavior of Madmen. I Feel So Much Better
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 09:45 AM
Aug 2017

Zambero

(8,965 posts)
50. I would like to believe that
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 10:01 AM
Aug 2017

I'm hoping you are absolutely correct. However, I still recall all those assurances that Trump was "unelectable". He would most certainly lose in a landslide and take scores of down ticket GOP legislators with him. Sometimes a terrible situation is made worse by the false assurances that precede it. We're in uncharted territory at the moment, and relying on the likes of Donald Trump to remain level headed in a crisis is beyond delusional, given his potential for creating them on his own. Carefully chosen words and actions saw us through the Cuban missile crisis. Given the irrationality and unpredictability of two self-serving individuals with their backs to the wall here and in North Korea, I'm plenty concerned at the moment.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,831 posts)
51. Well, since the statement is in all-caps, it must be true.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 10:04 AM
Aug 2017

I feel much better now.

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
56. Give me
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 11:35 AM
Aug 2017

A 100 percent guarantee please since your statement is so definitive.

Demsrule86

(68,657 posts)
59. And what do you bring to the topic?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 12:12 PM
Aug 2017

sarisataka

(18,765 posts)
61. Good to know, Now I can sleep
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 12:39 PM
Aug 2017

However I am also concerned about a conventional war on the Korean peninsula.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
62. I happen right now to be reading a book about World War I.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 12:41 PM
Aug 2017

In 1914 it was "obvious" to quite a few people that there wasn't going to be a general European war. Just a few days after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, people in Sarajevo were going on with their normal lives. The newspapers in France devoted all their attention to a sensational sex-scandal-murder-trial that was in progress. The government of the United Kingdom was focused on the politics of an Irish home rule bill. Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, who had interrupted his vacation after the death of his friend the Archduke, went back on vacation.

And yet, one thing was leading to another. Some of the national leaders involved were pig-headed, they were ignorant about the other countries and they believed what they wanted to believe, and they were afraid of looking weak. (Sound like any contemporary leaders you can think of?)

In the present case, I think it more likely than not that there will NOT be a war. Nevertheless, I don't agree with completely dismissing the possibility.

Incidentally, for anyone interested in history, I can recommend A World Undone: The Story of the Great War, 1914 to 1918 by G. J. Meyer. I'm "reading" the audiobook narrated by Robin Sachs. I'm still only up to September 1914 but I already feel confident in praising both the writing and the narration.

SweetieD

(1,660 posts)
68. I agree completely. I was thinking of wwi as well but no one believes the worst will
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:09 PM
Aug 2017

happen until it does. There will be another world war and the question isn't if but when. Will it happen in our lifetime or a 100 years from now.

RobinA

(9,894 posts)
80. I Was Thinking WWI
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:49 PM
Aug 2017

as well. Although my reading has made it clear that a general feeling that war was coming was, for a variety of reasons, in the air, it does also seem like the actual start of the war was a bunch of armies that went off when no one was looking.

0rganism

(23,968 posts)
63. thanks to China weighing in today, i tend to agree
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 12:41 PM
Aug 2017

guess they didn't want that shit in their neighborhood, and they found a solution where our government couldn't find its ass with a map

apnu

(8,758 posts)
64. I have to point this out.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:01 PM
Aug 2017

You said "fuck" in the title, but "heck" in the body. Why take your foot off the gas at all?

Once you go to "fuck", you're committed, so embrace it. I do.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
65. +1,000
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:05 PM
Aug 2017

That simple

Iggo

(47,564 posts)
67. I tend to agree.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:08 PM
Aug 2017
 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
70. If Trump as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:16 PM
Aug 2017

gives the order to launch a massive nuclear strike on NK it will be carried out in minutes, you can bet your life on it.

I'm not saying its a good thing, but I am saying without a doubt that order will be carried out.

Here are the steps that lead to WW3 or whatever it is that Dolt 45 would unleash on humanity:



To Launch a Nuclear Strike, Donald Trump Would Follow These Steps
By Dave Merrill, Nafeesa Syeed and Brittany Harris
Updated January 20, 2017

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-nuclear-weapon-launch/

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
74. I like your style, dude
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:35 PM
Aug 2017

 

moda253

(615 posts)
75. Can you stop yelling at everyone and telling them to calm down?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:39 PM
Aug 2017

Thanks.

Enorgnoz

(8 posts)
77. The Rude Pundit agrees.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:44 PM
Aug 2017

Source: http://rudepundit.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/advice-to-young-folk-freaking-out-about.html

1. Calm the fuck down. Yeah, yeah, I know that that our dumb-as-a-stump, pussy-grabbin' president keeps huffin' and puffin' about the United States being ready to blow North Korea's shit up, and I know that North Korea is led by an inbred half-wit who claps like a slow little boy when he sees things go "boom," but that doesn't mean either of them is idjit enough to nuke the other. You're still gonna die because of climate change or heart disease, but that'll take a little longer.

2. Most of what you're hearing is public relations bullshit. Trump has a bunch of brain-damaged yahoos who thrill to his fake John Wayne act. Kim Jong Un needs his poor, starving people to think that everyone else wants to kill them and only Kim can protect them. (So, really, they're not so different.) But behind the scenes, there are constant negotiations and dialogues with people actually skilled at this sort of thing trying to figure shit out. This was true during the Soviet/U.S. standoff, and it's true now.


Just sayin'.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
81. No. 2 Exactly
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:54 PM
Aug 2017

The same. Trump is playing right into Fat Totalitarian 3's hands by spewing action movie one liners.

Propaganda for the gibbering masses here is perfectly complementary for propaganda to the cowering masses there.

Otherwise Trump has already cemented his reputation as a ineffective leader and a pathological liar.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
79. Well then
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:48 PM
Aug 2017

That settles it!

Lotusflower70

(3,077 posts)
82. Ok then
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:54 PM
Aug 2017

It's scary to hear him use the soldiers as pawns in his war games but it's also fucked up to hear Senator Graham talking about working around Congress to execute them. Hopefully sanity prevails.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,121 posts)
84. When Mueller gets closer, he will order nuke attack, lets hope the generals
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 01:55 PM
Aug 2017

refuse.

Trump will cause the death of one billion people if it would protect him from mueller, sorry you havent figured that out yet

hunter

(38,325 posts)
87. There is news, and then there is "reality TV news."
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 02:11 PM
Aug 2017

All the news on TV is "reality TV news" which is why I don't watch it. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, all of it.

Of course that's why Trump is president, too many people believe that shit.

Our mass media is a shit cannon. Trump is using it to hide his own criminality as a money launderer for Russian oligarchs, as a reality show television pretend billionaire, as a creepy old man pervert who walks into the dressing rooms of teenagers, and as a guy who can't see his own penis in the bathroom mirror.

North Korea is being it's usual kindergarten playground bully self and it's pretty God Damned fucking pathetic we have a kindergarten bully president who is responding to them in kind.


 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
88. No but China and India look like they may be popping off on the border so get ready
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 02:14 PM
Aug 2017

For the record they're not going to Nuke each other either.


 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
89. I disagree... there is zero chance that either TRUMP or Kim backs down. We will die when China
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 02:24 PM
Aug 2017

retaliates for TRUMP's pre-emptive strike.

kcr

(15,320 posts)
91. Sorry. There are a lot of reasons to be scared.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 02:39 PM
Aug 2017

For one thing, we've never had a certifiably insane, unpredictable president before. For another, a nuclear war isn't the only thing to worry about.

WoonTars

(694 posts)
93. It certainly won't START that way...but it could eventually lead there....
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 03:41 PM
Aug 2017

....

jmowreader

(50,562 posts)
96. Here's what I figure
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:18 PM
Aug 2017

Trump isn't going to start an unprovoked nuclear war. There is no chance he stays in office if he does. It'll either be impeachment, the 25th Amendment, or one of the 300 generals Trump has surrounded himself with is going to decide the Commander in Chief is subject to the UCMJ and charge him with all 57 punitive articles in the UCMJ.

KJU has a bigger problem: if he launches a nuclear-tipped missile there's a good chance it'll land somewhere they didn't intend it to go, and a better chance his generals will shoot him.

So...sabers will rattle really loud, but that's it.

TacoD

(581 posts)
97. I partially agree but I disagree with "calm the heck down." This is an extraordinary time (nt)
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:19 PM
Aug 2017
 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
98. And you know this how? Sources?
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:24 PM
Aug 2017

I think it will calm down, but with Trump, anything is possible.

Bradshaw3

(7,529 posts)
102. I'm having visions of Kevin Bacon screaming 'All is well'
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:42 PM
Aug 2017
 

Ccarmona

(1,180 posts)
103. I Live in Hawaii
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:52 PM
Aug 2017

Of course I'm scared shitless because we have two madmen running NKorea & the US.

 

ImpeachTheGOP

(89 posts)
105. Agreed. This is all a dog and pony show.
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 06:39 PM
Aug 2017

On both sides.

doc03

(35,363 posts)
107. I wouldn't bet the farm on that nt
Fri Aug 11, 2017, 07:29 PM
Aug 2017

Rhiannon12866

(205,927 posts)
109. Someone I spoke to today suggested that it's Trump himself who is the distraction
Sat Aug 12, 2017, 01:07 AM
Aug 2017

While his handlers can do whatever they want behind the scenes.

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