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MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:08 PM Jun 2017

Republicans Will Never Fix Healthcare. They Can't.

They can't because they don't understand that the only fix is a single-payer system that guarantees adequate healthcare for everyone and is funded by taxation.

That is the solution and it is the only solution that will finally provide equitable healthcare for all Americans. That has always been the case.

Until everyone recognizes that and stops trying to find some other way to handle it, we will have an unfair system that does not deliver healthcare to all. Nothing but a well-designed cradle-to-grave single payer system can ever do that.

When we finally realize that, it will be relatively easy to implement. We have a model for it in Medicare. All we have to do is expand that and set premiums for those who have not yet reached whatever age is deemed suitable for mostly-subsidized coverage. Right now, that age is 65. We oldsters still pay a premium for Part B 80% coverage, but it is not a high premium. Private insurers issue supplemental coverage to cover the other 20%. They love doing that. They fight over it. Let them fight over Medicare for All supplements, too, and get them off our backs.

Single Payer. Single Pool. Single, Profit-Free Administration. Simple, Equitable Healthcare for All.

Nothing less will work.

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Republicans Will Never Fix Healthcare. They Can't. (Original Post) MineralMan Jun 2017 OP
There is no workable *free market* solution to health insurance. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2017 #1
Exactly right. MineralMan Jun 2017 #3
I agree. But, shockey80 Jun 2017 #2
We should stop doing foolish things. MineralMan Jun 2017 #5
Some are fools, many are just greedy to make a profit off others' misery. brush Jun 2017 #7
also religion. The GOP will oppose all efforts to include abortion in a single payer system. TeamPooka Jun 2017 #33
Yep. progressoid Jun 2017 #45
What they need to do is stop using healthcare as a tax giveback FakeNoose Jun 2017 #4
Republicans are going to have to be dragged, kicking and screaming MineralMan Jun 2017 #6
Here it is.."Once they have universal healthcare, they'll love it, I guarantee." says it all... Stuart G Jun 2017 #15
For example, Germany: DetlefK Jun 2017 #8
I'm opposed to a class-based system. MineralMan Jun 2017 #9
Your analogy of the first class section is very apt! Moostache Jun 2017 #52
Thanks! "We all get there together..." is a great way to put it. MineralMan Jun 2017 #53
But that "bare-bones plan" is still quite comprehesive LiberalLovinLug Jun 2017 #43
Bottom Line: Nobody wants to be sick and need medical care. MineralMan Jun 2017 #10
They aren't able to even improve on it because of the manipulation of the Republican base. RDANGELO Jun 2017 #11
Yes. They continue to come at it from the wrong direction MineralMan Jun 2017 #12
We can't even move forward in Democratically controlled California SHRED Jun 2017 #13
That was debunked already as Raw misquoted what the speaker said cstanleytech Jun 2017 #22
I thought shelving it stops work on it SHRED Jun 2017 #23
No, it just means the current incarnation isnt getting a vote and thats all it means. cstanleytech Jun 2017 #25
They'll keep trying until they get it right. MineralMan Jun 2017 #29
And They Don't Want To. It's Simply Not Part Of Their Belief System. calimary Jun 2017 #14
That has always been the hugest elephant in the room ! They do not want to help Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2017 #21
We can sell it as the pro-business plan since it's the best deal for employers IronLionZion Jun 2017 #16
Why even involve the employer? At present, they stopbush Jun 2017 #30
Employers would save money in a single payer system IronLionZion Jun 2017 #36
another reason: they HATE social programs spanone Jun 2017 #17
Spot on as usual. Moral Compass Jun 2017 #18
Oh I think they can and they could fix it and that they understand it the problem is really that cstanleytech Jun 2017 #19
Common Sense vs. Predatory Sense. byronius Jun 2017 #20
As Churchill said, you could always count on the Americans to do the right thing MiddleClass Jun 2017 #24
They can not fix it. They have no empathy. They can not care about anyone but themselves and their LiberalArkie Jun 2017 #26
Yes. peggysue2 Jun 2017 #27
Oh, I think we'll eventually get single-payer, MineralMan Jun 2017 #31
Yes! peggysue2 Jun 2017 #32
Just because everyone else is doing it and it's cheaper underpants Jun 2017 #28
It's not that they can't fix it. They have the power to do so. They just don't care. Initech Jun 2017 #34
But Nancy Pelosi has already said that's not an option. WoonTars Jun 2017 #35
It is not an option with Republicans in control. MineralMan Jun 2017 #37
I wasn't assigning blame of anything on anyone. WoonTars Jun 2017 #38
I will give you the same advice you gave me. MineralMan Jun 2017 #40
I accept your apology... WoonTars Jun 2017 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author MiddleClass Jun 2017 #47
Didn't Orrin Hatch once admit NewJeffCT Jun 2017 #39
Yes. They know what is a preferable plan. MineralMan Jun 2017 #41
Thanks for this thread. Informative and highlights LuckyLib Jun 2017 #44
Thanks for taking the time to read it! MineralMan Jun 2017 #50
And my compliments to the 'chef'! For this informative sprinkleeninow Jun 2017 #51
Exactly. What is so damned hard to understand??? Hulk Jun 2017 #46
The GOP does not believe in government and so the GOP is bad at governing Gothmog Jun 2017 #48
Yes, I think you're right about that. MineralMan Jun 2017 #49
I'll play devil's advocate. I'd fight you to preserve my HSA option. AtheistCrusader Jun 2017 #54
In a universal, single-payer system, you'd have zero MineralMan Jun 2017 #59
So how do we undo the ACA, which actually further entrenched the broken system? MadDAsHell Jun 2017 #55
Single-payer was not possible when ACA was passed. MineralMan Jun 2017 #58
Just yesterday, one of the Right's long time spokesmen parroted the old saw .. Hieronymus Jun 2017 #56
It is the same with schools quaker bill Jun 2017 #57

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,692 posts)
1. There is no workable *free market* solution to health insurance.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:14 PM
Jun 2017

That's why the GOP can't make it work. They can't think outside their restrictive free-market box, so they just keep moving the pieces around hoping somehow it will all come together - but it never will. Insurance, as originally conceived, is almost pure socialism. One of the earliest forms was invented in the 18th century or thereabouts by shippers who were losing a lot of money as a result of shipping accidents, shipwrecks and piracy. So they created a system whereby everybody would pay some amount of money into a pool, and anyone who lost their ship would be compensated out of the pool. If you never lost a ship you were still paying to compensate those who did. This kind of insurance works pretty well. Most other kinds of hazard insurance (car, homeowners, etc.) works pretty much the same way: lots of people pay premiums but only a relatively small percentage make claims, so the insurer can charge premiums that most people can afford. With life insurance eventually a claim will be made, but because premiums are paid over some period of time the insurer can invest the money and thus make enough to cover the eventual payout (which is why younger people pay lower premiums, determined by actuarial data).

Health insurance is different. Sooner or later everybody gets sick or injured, but it's impossible to predict when or how. Statistically, younger people are less likely to have to make claims, but they do get sick or injured, and they can end up with conditions that will require treatment for many years. And the ability to pay for health care isn't optional: You pay or maybe you die. Because medical treatment is very expensive and the need for it is not very predictable, if you are relying on private insurance a very large premium pool is necessary, which was the reason for the individual mandate. If everybody is paying into the pool, statistically, in any given year, not everybody will make claims and there will be enough to pay for those who do. But if the only people who pay premiums are the people who are more likely to need medical treatment (e.g., older people, the disabled, pregnant women) and need the coverage, there won't be enough money in the pool unless the premiums are extremely high or there are a whole lot of deductibles and exclusions. So the GOP is in an impenetrable box. Every version they come up with can make private health insurance "affordable" only if the coverage sucks. If it actually covers what most people need and doesn't have pre-existing condition exclusions and lifetime caps it's too expensive for many people. So lower income people will opt out entirely because they have no choice (the GOP is big on "choice&quot , and then the pool becomes even smaller and the premiums go up some more.

There is no way to make "free market" private health insurance work. Either it's shit coverage or it's too expensive. There's no way around it, but McConnell, even using his super turtle powers, can't figure that out because his tiny reptile brain can't imagine anything that operates outside the myth of the free market.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
3. Exactly right.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:21 PM
Jun 2017

I'm willing to let the insurance companies sell supplemental coverage, like they do for Medicare recipients. They love that, and it makes money for them, so let them have that 20% option.

Otherwise, it should all be single-payer, single-pool. If it were up to me, it would also be single premium rate, but that's not going to be popular. If everyone from birth to the age where a large subsidy covers most of the premium, premiums over a lifetime would be markedly lower for everyone. And that's the only way to measure it.

We'd also subsidize coverage for the poor, for what ever reason they are in poverty. Any single-payer system will have to include subsidies for those who are in poverty. We have a responsibility to protect the health of everyone in society, not just those who are able to earn a living wage. We have that responsibility because, well, we have that responsibility, since any of us can find ourselves in that situation for a variety of reasons.

Let's just do this and get it over with and move on to other issues. This whole healthcare debate is worthless and is holding us back.

 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
2. I agree. But,
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:17 PM
Jun 2017

In America we have a lot of idiots who believe everything has to be profit driven. Capitalism. They believe anything government run can't work. That is a lie. It is these americans that stop progress. They stop us from improving our lives. They are fools.

TeamPooka

(24,226 posts)
33. also religion. The GOP will oppose all efforts to include abortion in a single payer system.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:25 PM
Jun 2017

along with other stuff, day after pills etc.

FakeNoose

(32,639 posts)
4. What they need to do is stop using healthcare as a tax giveback
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:22 PM
Jun 2017

If the GOP weren't so doggone crazy about their tax breaks, they'd finally realize that these are totally separate issues.

But yes single-payer is the solution that is proven to work in other countries and there's every reason to believe it would work here. The GOP could possibly adopt that program some day, except their problem is they've taken so many payoffs from the insurance industry. Insurance has to "go away" in order for the GOP to suddenly realize how blind they've been. (I don't know how we could make that happen.)

I believe it's going to take a lot of baby steps before we get to that point. But we have to start somewhere instead of constantly jumping backwards. The ACA was the first big step but there's still a long way to go.

As for the tax breaks for the richest 400 families, I don't understand why the GOP thinks it's even necessary to make all new laws just for them. They already get everything they want, just about. But that's another thread for another day.



MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
6. Republicans are going to have to be dragged, kicking and screaming
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:24 PM
Jun 2017

over that line. Screw 'em. Once they have universal healthcare, they'll love it, I guarantee. So, screw their whining and mewling.

We need to win, take over the government and just freaking do it. If we win, we can do that. If we don't, this nonsense will simply continue.

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
15. Here it is.."Once they have universal healthcare, they'll love it, I guarantee." says it all...
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:24 PM
Jun 2017

......................how about Medicare?....would they like to replace that with something else?
Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll I doubt it..because Medicare works...far better than anyone expected..ever...

Some arguments against Medicare in the 60s............

Oh......it was going to create long lines at the doctors offices.??..well....no more than before..
Oh .....it was going to cause doctors to go broke??...absolutely not
Oh......it was going to create poorer care, because doctors could not treat extra patients?..no..
Oh......the costs would be too much?......NO....Medicare has allowed hospitals to give medical care that they couldn't give before..In a way..it is cost effective..more care...at less cost.

Yes, Once there is "universal healthcare.." they will love it....it too will be cost effective....only one group will not like it..................."insurance companies"..why? their profits will go down..those companies take a cut ..and that will not happen under "universal healthcare"


DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
8. For example, Germany:
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:29 PM
Jun 2017

In Germany there are two types of health-insurance: public and private.
* Each state has a government-funded health-insurance that offers a bare-bones plan at low premiums. It's operates as a "non-profit". It's nothing special, but it covers basic stuff like medication, glasses, dentist, vital surgeries and some kinds of therapy. The prices are set at federal level, but the administration of your account/file is at state-level.
* There are many health-insurance companies. They offer plans that have WAY better coverage, but also cost more.

You are mandated by law to have any kind of health-insurance.

You cannot get a job in Germany without proving that you have any kind of health-insurance.

If you can prove that you are too poor to afford health-insurance, or if you are unemployed, then the government pays your health-insurance, but only for the public bare-bones plan.



A common complaint is that Germany is a Two-Class-society when it comes to healthcare: People with a private health-insurance have access to more and better healthcare. On the other hand, the public health-insurance is cheap and as long as you are a not-too-sick Twenty-something or Thirty-something, it's sufficient.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
9. I'm opposed to a class-based system.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:34 PM
Jun 2017

I am not opposed to private insurers covering some sort of co-pay, as they do now with Medicare Part B. They seem to love those supplement plans, which indicates that they profit from them. Throw them that bone. But, for people under some income level, simply don't charge the co-pay amount.

Personally, I'd like to see any plan that goes into effect be equal-care based. For the wealthy, who think they're entitled to more than equal care, let them patronize facilities that provide additional services and exclusive private rooms and luxury accommodations at their own freaking expense. I don't care about that one bit. But, make them pay for those extras out of their own fat wallets or through some sort of luxury insurance plan that they can choose. I don't really give a damn about wealthy people's needs. They can fly in the first class section of the plane or get catered to in some fancy hospital if they're willing to pay, but everyone gets care, based on current practice standards. The extra crap is extra, but not essential.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
52. Your analogy of the first class section is very apt!
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 03:48 PM
Jun 2017

The idea of first class in an airplane is essentially about choice and luxury more than arriving at a different destination or even arriving there faster! You get on the plane and we all get where we are going together (or in case of tragedy, not at all)...

Primary Health Care and Treatment should be the same...we all get there together. First Class champagne and hot towels are to me the same as elective plastic surgery...fine to be available, but not essential or standard by any means...

There are some hard conversations needed in this country to define "basic" or "primary" health care from "optional" and "experimental", but the discussion of whether healthcare is a fundamental right or privilege of birth and circumstance is not one we should keep having every time the levers of power have a new party in charge...though that argument has been going on since FDR!

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
53. Thanks! "We all get there together..." is a great way to put it.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 03:53 PM
Jun 2017

I appreciate your reply very much.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,173 posts)
43. But that "bare-bones plan" is still quite comprehesive
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:53 PM
Jun 2017

in that it covers "vital surgeries", cancer treatment, etc..

no matter what pre-condition. In fact the word pre-condition is not even a word in most countries. It is a particular American invented word.

Its true that most western democracies that have single payer have a kind of mixed system. Those changes usually occur during times when a country has elected a conservative administration. They try and chip away as much as they can. But there is always a core basic standard to uphold across the country by law. And that basic standard is usually quite good.

There is a mental shift to accepting that health care be a right, and not a privilege. Once Americans can get behind that, you are well on your way.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
10. Bottom Line: Nobody wants to be sick and need medical care.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:47 PM
Jun 2017

Nobody. Not the rich and not the poor. Everyone requires healthcare at varying times in their lives. Nobody wants to have surgery or get drugs to treat illnesses. Nobody wants to get sick.

But, everybody deserves treatment when they need it. And everyone should receive adequate, comprehensive treatment for their illnesses and injuries. No thinking person would ever suggest that one should not receive care simply because one can't afford to pay for it.

If you have money today, that's nice, but there is no assurance that you will always be in that enviable position. If you deny healthcare to people who cannot pay for it, you may well find yourself in that very situation at any time. Millions of people have lost jobs, including very high-paying jobs over the last couple of decades. They've suddenly found themselves in a position where they did not have the resources they once did.

For pete's sake, anyone can be reduced to poverty for unexpected reasons. For those who think they are invulnerable to such a situation, it's time for a wake-up call. Everyone deserves equitable healthcare, regardless of their current circumstances. It's something a society owes to the people in that society, period.

Healthcare should not be a profit center. It is a fundamental need that we all will have. Nobody should be allowed to profit from people's illnesses or misery. That's a basic concept. If you wouldn't want to be denied healthcare, you should not deny it to anyone else. Period!

RDANGELO

(3,433 posts)
11. They aren't able to even improve on it because of the manipulation of the Republican base.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:52 PM
Jun 2017

They have these people believing that any redistribution of income is an abomination. Fox news and right wing radio has been extremely successful in turning the Republican party into somewhat of a cult, where they choose to believe something because that's what they are told. That is good for winning elections, but bad for governing because you have a base that is disconnected from the rest of society.

You have a situation where the Republican base expects the Republican politicians to completely repeal the ACA and reconstruct a health care plan with no income redistribution. That means that they have to ax the tax on the wealthy which decreases the subsidies, which makes the plans even more unaffordable.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
12. Yes. They continue to come at it from the wrong direction
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 12:54 PM
Jun 2017

every time. That prevents them from seeing the obvious and just solution.

cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
25. No, it just means the current incarnation isnt getting a vote and thats all it means.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:56 PM
Jun 2017

If they can manage to find a way to fix the problems and find funding then it like many pieces of legislation can be brought back and then voted on.

calimary

(81,264 posts)
14. And They Don't Want To. It's Simply Not Part Of Their Belief System.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:21 PM
Jun 2017

They think government is there basically to make war.

They haven't wanted this kind of thing since FDR pushed the New Deal through that helped lift the US out of the Great Depression. They do not see government as being in that "line of business" - you know, the business of HELPING PEOPLE!

They simply do NOT want to help you or anybody else in need. They don't think they should have to! They don't think it's government's job. They don't believe that this is part of what government is supposed to do.

The republi-CON party has wanted to dismantle the New Deal since the moment it was conceived. Because they don't believe that's what government is supposed to do.

Everybody - you're on your own. Every man for himself. Boot yourself up by your own bootstraps. And what if you don't have boots? Well, then, that's just too bad. It sucks to be you.

THAT is your modern-day republi-CON party. They DON'T want to help you. They don't believe it's their job, in the first place.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
21. That has always been the hugest elephant in the room ! They do not want to help
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:36 PM
Jun 2017

people that ACA helped. Period.

I knew long ago that this Repeal and Replace (with something better) was a ridiculous scam. They were scamming people that they actually cared. It could only last so long.

I actually thing the "with something better" part came from Conald. The GOP really and truly just wanted the Repeal - because it helped people. He acted SO frickin confident that he was so frickin brilliant that HE could come up with something better. So GOP believed him. But, little did they know that trump was talking out of his ass. He was acting like people just spouting off in their own living rooms - " Oh man, I could run the olympics better than these schmucks." for example. You don't really mean it - but he really meant it.

Bottom line - clashing goals - Make it better and Keep it cheap (take the rich tax off)

IronLionZion

(45,442 posts)
16. We can sell it as the pro-business plan since it's the best deal for employers
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:30 PM
Jun 2017

Employers shouldn't have to struggle to find plans for their workers that they can afford. They should just pay a fixed percentage for each worker to use the single payer system. It also levels the playing field for small independent businesses and large corporations in recruiting talented workers.

So this is the job creating plan that helps small businesses. It also helps create jobs for health care providers: doctors, nurses, lab techs, and others.

We don't have to worry about insurance companies leaving small rural states because the national health insurance is nation-wide. We don't want our friends in Trump country to get screwed, right?

Standardized reimbursement rates for routine procedures will help control the costs on the provider side.

We already have Medicare and payroll taxes. I bet somebody must have bitched and moaned when that socialist law was passed in 1965 while many others understood why it was a great idea.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
30. Why even involve the employer? At present, they
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:15 PM
Jun 2017

get a tax break for offering insurance to employees. Take away the tax break, put the additional taxes collected into a health care pool and let the government do single payer.

IronLionZion

(45,442 posts)
36. Employers would save money in a single payer system
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:37 PM
Jun 2017

instead of paying for their employees to have insurance

cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
19. Oh I think they can and they could fix it and that they understand it the problem is really that
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:35 PM
Jun 2017

they dont care.
As long as they already have it they are pro throw everyone else under the bus its simple as that.

byronius

(7,394 posts)
20. Common Sense vs. Predatory Sense.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:36 PM
Jun 2017

I've read that it's a genetic propensity. It seems like it must be -- I cannot imagine thinking the way they do. What a nightmare it would be to be trapped inside that kind of mindspace.

Gollum.

MiddleClass

(888 posts)
24. As Churchill said, you could always count on the Americans to do the right thing
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:53 PM
Jun 2017

After they have exhausted all other possibilities.

The most achievable, public option for Obama care, technically, Medicare for all.

Premiums, total cost divided by total covered. 65+ no change, current subsidies apply to this only.

Cost taxpayers nothing outside of what they're already paying today.

The Obama care subsidies are coming from Medicare in the first place,

it was a 30 percent subsidy for the Medicare advantage, privatize idea which Obama commandeered.

The way that would end up being structured Republicans couldn't claim of taxpayer money going to Obama care

LiberalArkie

(15,715 posts)
26. They can not fix it. They have no empathy. They can not care about anyone but themselves and their
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 01:56 PM
Jun 2017

equals and contributors.

peggysue2

(10,828 posts)
27. Yes.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:00 PM
Jun 2017

Republicans will need to be hog-tied and gagged to push single-payer into existence. But I also agree that once the matter is settled into place, the howling will subside dramatically because the price tag for a single-payer system will choke off the argument. We see the evidence in other countries, be it strictly single payer or a combination of public/private plan options: more efficiency and cost effectiveness.

Josh Marshall had an essay up regarding the Democratic/Republican divide on healthcare. He reminds the reader that the objectives of the two parties on any healthcare agenda are diametrically opposed. The ACA for all its stumbles and flaws sought to increase the number of people with healthcare. The law undeniably did that. That is not, however, the objective of the Republican plan(s). The House bills dropped 24 million and 23 million recipients, respectively. The Senate bill would drop 22 million. That's not a bug; it's purposeful to save taxes and free up money for the Grand Tax Payday, the prime objective. Republicans start with the premise that government should not be involved, that government-related healthcare programs are proven failures. Only the marketplace can solve the problem, they say. They cite the VA as an example. Yet Medicare is absolutely successful and wildly popular, something the GOP despises.

So in addition to hogtied and gagged, I'm guessing anesthetized would be in order for Republican members :0). I do find it interesting that conservative writers are now predicting that Republican failure on the issue will ultimately lead to a single-payer system.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
31. Oh, I think we'll eventually get single-payer,
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:18 PM
Jun 2017

simply because it makes the most sense, serves the most people, and costs the least per person insured. What the heck's not to like about that.

We need to get solid majorities in Congress and elect a Democrat as President. That's all, Screw the Republicans after that.

Initech

(100,075 posts)
34. It's not that they can't fix it. They have the power to do so. They just don't care.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:32 PM
Jun 2017

They care more about their billionaire donors getting tax breaks than they do the health and well being of the people. Until we get big money out of politics, don't ever expect that to change.

WoonTars

(694 posts)
35. But Nancy Pelosi has already said that's not an option.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:33 PM
Jun 2017

So how can we convince the republicans, when the leadership of our own party isn't even on board?

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
37. It is not an option with Republicans in control.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:37 PM
Jun 2017

So, we don't convince the Republicans; we defeat them utterly. Nancy Pelosi is speaking of the current situation, not what might be the situation in the future. This is not Nancy Pelosi's fault. It is the fault of the voters who do not bother to vote for people who will enact the policies that benefit them.

Don't blame Nancy Pelosi for the Republicans being in control of all three branches of government. Blame those who did not vote or did not vote for Democrats. Assign blame where it belongs.

Thanks.

WoonTars

(694 posts)
38. I wasn't assigning blame of anything on anyone.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:41 PM
Jun 2017

Please read my posts properly before responding.

Thanks.

WoonTars

(694 posts)
42. I accept your apology...
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:49 PM
Jun 2017

....i wasn't blaming anyone for anything....but you chose to lecture me as though i did....i get it...everyone makes mistakes!

Response to WoonTars (Reply #35)

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
39. Didn't Orrin Hatch once admit
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:42 PM
Jun 2017

that they were determined to defeat Obamacare because if it was passed, it would prove to be too good and too popular to repeal.

And, W himself once (mistakenly) admitted that the VA system (single payer, but just for veterans) had advantages that the private sector did not.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
41. Yes. They know what is a preferable plan.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 02:44 PM
Jun 2017

They just don't like it. It's not greedy enough to suit them and their wealthy supporters.

The answer is obvious, really, but it won't enrich anyone. It will only ensure decent healthcare for all, something that is of little interest to Republican office-holders.

sprinkleeninow

(20,246 posts)
51. And my compliments to the 'chef'! For this informative
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 03:35 PM
Jun 2017

thread and responses. 📝 👍
Love ya, DUers.
-sprink

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
46. Exactly. What is so damned hard to understand???
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 03:04 PM
Jun 2017

Single payer for ALL. If you WANT "better coverage", then buy a fucking private policy from the corporate parasites.

What is so damned hard to understand?

Oh, and raise taxes back up to post WWII era until we balance things out.

Simple.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
49. Yes, I think you're right about that.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 03:19 PM
Jun 2017

So, let them not bother with government. We can handle that for them.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
54. I'll play devil's advocate. I'd fight you to preserve my HSA option.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 04:40 PM
Jun 2017

If you want to expand Medicare/Medicaid to additional income brackets, and open it up as an option, cool, I'm willing to share the tax burden to accomplish that. But if you try to take away my HSA, or eliminate my access to care utilizing the HSA as payment, we are going to fight.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
59. In a universal, single-payer system, you'd have zero
Thu Jun 29, 2017, 09:26 AM
Jun 2017

need for an HSA, frankly. Now, I don't know how large your HSA is or will be, so I can't really guess how far it will stretch if you have a medical condition that requires long-term and very costly care. Many people are in that situation. You might be someday, as well, and exhaust your HSA funds.

Under universal, single-payer healthcare, that will not be a concern. If you're sick, you will get treated. Period. No HSA required.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
55. So how do we undo the ACA, which actually further entrenched the broken system?
Thu Jun 29, 2017, 01:38 AM
Jun 2017

I feel like we've lost all credibility to argue for single payer when just 7 years ago we passed a law MANDATING the current employer-based approach...

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
58. Single-payer was not possible when ACA was passed.
Thu Jun 29, 2017, 09:24 AM
Jun 2017

There was no way it could have gotten through Congress. So, a system that helped to insure millions more than could be insured prior to ACA were able to be insured.

That new system had many flaws, because it was only a stop-gap measure. The fix is single-payer, but we can't get that without large majorities in Congress and a progressive President. That's the thing we have to do about it. That's the only way it can happen. So, we have our work cut out for us, it seems.

Hieronymus

(6,039 posts)
56. Just yesterday, one of the Right's long time spokesmen parroted the old saw ..
Thu Jun 29, 2017, 05:24 AM
Jun 2017

that Canadians are pouring into the US for health care.
Ali Velshi, who is Canadian, set him straight. They just won't give up on that lie.

quaker bill

(8,224 posts)
57. It is the same with schools
Thu Jun 29, 2017, 06:16 AM
Jun 2017

Republicans will try anything except the one thing that works, a uniformly well funded public system. Study upon study shows that the one factor that accounts for the vast majority in variability in outcome is money, as in the income of the parents, and the money spent on schools. They simply like things to be unfair and uneven, because they think the struggle to be among the few that make it is what makes the economy better. They are misdirected nihilists afflicted with the puritan work ethic.

With healthcare it is the same. They think outcomes should be vastly different to create social incentive for harder work. In fact it just creates depression and wastes vast quantities of talent and energy. Republicans would prefer that no one gets anything than worry that their brown neighbor down the street might be getting a slightly better deal.

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