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bigtree

(85,996 posts)
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:26 AM Jun 2017

Tim Ryan believes we should gloss over issues of race, gender, ethnicity with an economic argument

Last edited Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:12 AM - Edit history (2)

Ryan on MTP, November 2016 :

I think, in part, we try to slice the electorate up. And we try to say, "You're black, you're brown, you're gay, you're straight, you're a woman, you're a man." The reality of it is there's no juice in that kind of campaign. There's no energy in that because it's divided.

The key to, and-- magic of, good campaigns, is when you pull people together. You unite them around a common theme. And look, if you're black, white, gay, straight, brown, you want a good job. You know, we focus sometimes too much on the minimum wage and we should be talking about living wages and middle class wages and pensions and benefits and the kind of thing that people in the industrial Midwest talk about all the time.

____________________________

This is a centrist's attempt to sideline concerns particular to gays, blacks, women in favor of what he believes is an all-encompassing economic argument.

What Ryan is angling for is a muffling of the voices of the vast majority of Democratic voters who actually show up at the polls, in order to draw in conservative voters, like him, who can't bear to hear about the needs and concerns endemic to individuals and groups of individuals who choose to organize under our Democratic banner.

Essentially, Tim Ryan wants our party to posture to appeal to republicans. He's envious of the way Trump was able to rally white moderates, reasoning that it was an economic appeal which assuaged their anti-Democratic fever. But Trump did more than sell them on some economic plan. He reached out to stroke the deep resentment those voters were expressing against anyone who didn't look like them or think like them.

Trump ran a lurid and prevaricating campaign which would have been an anathema to his republican predecessors. I'm not talking about the types of campaign rhetoric that came from Sanders during the primary that Hillary's 'Wall Street connections' meant that she couldn't or wouldn't represent the working class. Whatever the truth is about Hillary and that nebulous campaign meme, 'Wall Street connections' couldn't be all that important to anyone who voted for this ruthless capitalist who's demonstrated nothing but antipathy to the people who've worked for him over the entirety of his privileged life.

Trump appealed to the insecurity of some white Americans who have been convinced their share of the nation's economic benefits are being unfairly threatened by blacks, immigrants, and anyone else who dare assert their rightful role in our country's economy. The oft-bigoted demagogue left no dog-whistle behind as he promised to restore these psychologically-displaced souls to their assumed place of prominence in society.

Take the issue of race in the election, for example. If there was one message the white working-class got from Hillary in that campaign, it almost certainly was that black lives were going to matter in her presidency. Hillary challenged white Americans to acknowledge their economic successes and take heed of those who have been left behind in the recovering economy. More importantly, Hillary insisted that white Americans should recognize and appreciate the role race plays in the failure of the black community to fully benefit from the economic recovery.

"For many white Americans," Hillary said, "it’s tempting to believe that bigotry is largely behind us. That would leave us with a lot less work, wouldn’t it? But more than half a century after Rosa Parks sat and Dr. King marched and John Lewis bled, race still plays a significant role in determining who gets ahead in America and who gets left behind."

That seemingly obvious reasoning should be commonplace in our political debate, but these truths have been overlooked throughout our nation's history. Black economic gains have always lagged behind those of white Americans, certainly not just during the Obama administration. In the present economy, blacks have experienced the slowest economic recovery of any group of Americans.

Why would anyone who claims to have the interests of our diverse party at heart want to homogenize concerns like these into phony economic populism which treats everyone on the economic and societal ladder as if we were starting on level ground?

Ryan's argument for condensing our diverse party's myriad concerns and needs into an appeal directed at one group of Americans is not only wrong, it's foolhardy. It's also the 'identity politics' he's denouncing, he's just advocating identifying our party's agenda, primarily, with one group of Americans. White males.

That's basically Trumpism, dressed up in a self-opportunistic appeal designed to unseat a Democratic leader who has endeavored throughout the entirety of her career to represent ALL of our needs and concerns, not just those of a privileged few.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Tim Ryan believes we should gloss over issues of race, gender, ethnicity with an economic argument (Original Post) bigtree Jun 2017 OP
I didn't hear that. kentuck Jun 2017 #1
we have an all-encompassing economic message already bigtree Jun 2017 #2
"and bring an economic message to our Party" NCTraveler Jun 2017 #5
some of us need to go forward on those issues dsc Jun 2017 #8
Post removed Post removed Jun 2017 #3
This sounds like the same "blah blah white working class" bullshit... Spider Jerusalem Jun 2017 #4
They contradict themselves gollygee Jun 2017 #6
The reality is that the electorate is sliced up into groups Progressive dog Jun 2017 #7
If Ryan had a strong economic message we would be rallying delisen Jun 2017 #9
Did his district vote for Trump? Thrill Jun 2017 #10
As much as we watch race, gender and nationality cause death to these groups, pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #11
Tim Ryan would be the first one to sell out to Trump and cave in on bullwinkle428 Jun 2017 #12
I think that we could Bettie Jun 2017 #13
kick bigtree Jun 2017 #14
» bigtree Jun 2017 #15
And yet.. tim ryan ".. the hand wringer.." Cha Jun 2017 #16
ha! bigtree Jun 2017 #19
GeorgeII saw it on tv.. Cha Jun 2017 #20
we do need to do better amongst white people without college degrees. geek tragedy Jun 2017 #17
whatever the solution bigtree Jun 2017 #18
Exactly. Cha Jun 2017 #21
That is wrong. Our problems today are happening because we glossed over those rights. nt Blue_true Jun 2017 #22
I agree with him that the economic message should be discussed more often... Buckeye_Democrat Jun 2017 #23

kentuck

(111,092 posts)
1. I didn't hear that.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:30 AM
Jun 2017

I heard that we keep the progress we have made and bring an economic message to our Party also. I don't think any Democrats want to go backward?

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
2. we have an all-encompassing economic message already
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:41 AM
Jun 2017

... what Ryan wants is to amplify the type of sophistry Trump used to assuage the 'economic anxiety' of white moderates and conservatives to persuade them to vote Democratic.

The way forward isn't for our party to emulate republicans or mollycoddle rural bigots who can't find room in their world for concerns and needs particular to gays, blacks, or women.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
5. "and bring an economic message to our Party"
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:02 AM
Jun 2017

Those who aren't aware of our economic message have come to that conclusion for less than savory reasons.

dsc

(52,161 posts)
8. some of us need to go forward on those issues
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:54 AM
Jun 2017

and that won't happen if they are sidelined as he would have done. In a majority of states, with a majority of the population, LGBT people can be fired for simply being LGBT. In all 50 states blacks are vastly over represented in prisons. In many states women have a vastly limited right to abortion and in all of them they are paid less than a man for the same work. Rep. Ryan has a career of not caring about any of that.

Response to bigtree (Original post)

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
4. This sounds like the same "blah blah white working class" bullshit...
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:59 AM
Jun 2017

that I got sick of about a week after the election (along with a call to "get rid of 'divisive' identity politics", because white identity is the only identity that matters and fuck issues that matter to women, people of colour, LGBT, etc). Unfortunately "identity politics are Bad" and "we need to win back the White Working Class" are ideas that have a not unsurprising amount of traction here among some people (considering that DU generally skews Old and White). Unfortunately for this idea, LGBT issues and black issues and women's issues are ALSO economic issues (if you can be legally discriminated against in hiring for being gay, or transgender, or have your earnings potential and hireability curtailed because you can't access birth control and reproductive health services and childcare, etcetera, then "we need to focus on living wages and the things they talk about in the industrial Midwest" aren't doing a lot for you).

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
6. They contradict themselves
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:22 AM
Jun 2017

"we need to win back the white working class" is identity politics. When they complain about identity politics, they only mean for identities like people of color, women, lgbt, etc. They're fine with white male hetero identity politics. In fact, they seem to focus on it, all while complaining about identity politics.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
7. The reality is that the electorate is sliced up into groups
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:52 AM
Jun 2017

because those groups are treated as if they are not equal. It is impossible to maintain a democratic government where that is the case. That is why equality is and should remain the priority of our party until it is achieved. While we can never stop prejudice, we can certainly stop discrimination and we must.

delisen

(6,043 posts)
9. If Ryan had a strong economic message we would be rallying
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:18 AM
Jun 2017

around him, and marching to the beat of his drum.

He does not have a strong economic message for the country. His message is simply that other Democrats do not have a strong economic message but must develop one to his liking or will lose.

These calculated "progressive" outbursts are distracting. We have politician who hate the current Democratic Party--they are called Republicans. Do you think we need more?

I would have a lot more respect for the complainers if they actually fleshed out their economic vision instead of repeating slogans ad nauseam.











 

pirateshipdude

(967 posts)
11. As much as we watch race, gender and nationality cause death to these groups,
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:25 AM
Jun 2017

I would suggest that would be cowardly for the Democratic Party.

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
12. Tim Ryan would be the first one to sell out to Trump and cave in on
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:29 AM
Jun 2017

his demands to sign on for a tax cut to the rich, in the name of "bi-partisanship".

Major credit to Nancy P. for the holding the caucus together and not allowing that shit to happen.

Bettie

(16,100 posts)
13. I think that we could
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:56 AM
Jun 2017

stand to be a bit more vocal about the economic portion of the platform.

Doesn't mean dropping anything else, but rather, making a choice to pull it forward more often, because a good economy can work for everyone; for all of the many and varied smaller groupings in the country. Rising tide lifting all boats sort of thing.

ETA: Not saying this guy is right, but that vocalizing it more often could be helpful.

Cha

(297,196 posts)
16. And yet.. tim ryan ".. the hand wringer.."
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:42 PM
Jun 2017

"He's interviewing Tim Ryan of Ohio, who is going on and on about how bad Pelosi is, saying "she has no plan for this", "she has no plan for that". Finally Chuck Todd interrupted him and asked, "so where's yours?"

He was dumbfounded and didn't know how to answer.

Then he asked, "other than hand wringing, what do you do?"

Still no sensible answer."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9239969

Mahlao, bigtree.. shocking from chuck todd

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
19. ha!
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 08:01 PM
Jun 2017

...good catch, Cha!

Ryan has nothing but his opportunistic rhetoric about changing leadership.

As Barbara Jordan famously said, 'change - from what, to what?'

Cha

(297,196 posts)
20. GeorgeII saw it on tv..
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:46 PM
Jun 2017

I'm just passing it on.

ryan is a vulture.. and not very skilled at that, either.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
17. we do need to do better amongst white people without college degrees.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:45 PM
Jun 2017

we need the votes, period. Doesn't matter how much we run up the score in Brooklyn if we can't win the suburban and exurban swing districts.

So, what's the solution for winning them over?

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
18. whatever the solution
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:48 PM
Jun 2017

...it's not going to be found in regressive calls to moderate our agenda.

That's what Tim Ryan represents and promotes.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
23. I agree with him that the economic message should be discussed more often...
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:48 PM
Jun 2017

... although that doesn't mean race, sex and other issues should be dropped.

I've worked with many poor and lower middle class people over the years, and many of them vote for Republicans for economic reasons!

Why? They've been convinced by right-wing propagandists (and even some neoliberals) that the "free market" is fair and government interference is unfair! It's a very anti-democratic notion, but those people have accepted that the economy is off-limits to their input and the input of others because the capitalistic "God" has decided the matter.

People don't just vote for their own self interest. Many of them vote because their ideas of "right and wrong" regarding economics have been so perverted that they label redistribution of wealth as "theft" despite how such actions might benefit them!

In my opinion, those people need to hear explanations from Democrats about why the economic system is unfair so they'll realize that taxation and redistribution is necessary and good.

Edit: If it seems incredible that people submit to the supposed authority of free-market capitalism even if it goes against their self interest, bear in mind that people in Europe used to accept the authority of monarchs. I've even had poor co-workers, working their butts off for little pay, expressing concern about taxes on the wealthy because "they're the ones who give us jobs!" How is that much different than a serf singing the praise of his/her gluttonous king?

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