General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI hope Ossoff does not concede if Handel is declared "winner"
because if she is declared "winner" it won't be because she won the election fair and square
I hope that Ossoff will put paperless DRES, machine tabulated, and other forms of voter suppression on trial once and for all
-- and even if he IS declared the winner, I hope he will fight for election integrity
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)I remember literally seeing the votes flip on the Georgia SOS page when Max Cleland lost his seat.
Handel is a sleazy, lying, unethical POS and I'm sure she will pull out all the stops.
diva77
(7,684 posts)Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)diva77
(7,684 posts)it's untouchable
diva77
(7,684 posts)Why didn't they fight for legitimate recounts? Why did others who lost in "close" elections concede?
I want to know "why" as well
karynnj
(59,511 posts)A recount simply retallies the legitimately cast votes. In Kerry's case, there were shenanigans in Ohio. Democratic cities had fewer voting machines than they had in the primaries, where voting is always lower especially as Kerry already was the de facto nominee. This meant 4 hour lines. That suppression alone like stole the votes he needed to win - and there were other problems.
Kerry spoke of why he conceded. He could not PROVE that more people who actually voted, voted for him. You can not count votes not cast. He spoke of the country being at war. Not said, was that he definitely would not have had the support of many powers in the party.
Similarly, even now there is not proof that Trump did not get the most votes cast in those three states. So far, there is no proof of votes being changed. Like in 2004, there might have been significant voter suppression. Like in 2004. You can not count votes not cast.
In addition, many votes might have been lost to very targeted spreading of lies. However, there were lies employed by Adams and Jefferson.
Neither claimed they won, because they both believed in the process as did Gore.
brooklynite
(95,007 posts)Since people started yelling "vote hacking" in 2004, no candidate, campaign manager or Party leader (you know, the people who should know best) has claimed they lost due to vote flipping.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)District that has voted for white wingers for decades, including New Gingrich and Tommy Price. While Clinton lost by a percent or two in 2016, Tommy Price beat the Democrat (not a strong candidate) by 23%.
If there is reason to complain about vote tabulation, fine. But if Ossoff loses, the first think I'm going to think of is we lost in a district that would have been a major upset for Democrats to take, and we lost because our voters didn't turn out in excess of white wingers. That's pretty much the case in elections nowadays.
diva77
(7,684 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)diva77
(7,684 posts)Do you have link to polls you are referring to -- for my own benefit? thanks
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)They've been spreading crud, we laugh at, but the white wingers in the District have been accepting for decades. Hope voters change this time.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/house-races/338365-ossoff-handel-nearly-deadlocked-in-georgia-house-race
diva77
(7,684 posts)and the thing about early voting with DREs - theoretically, or not, it's like a statistical gift to those who have access to that info -- if you can access info. prior to election day, you can extrapolate to better know how to tweak the totals without being obvious
Ms. Toad
(34,130 posts)In most jurisdictions, the votes are stored but not tabulated until the close of the polls.
In addition virtually all jurisdictions control access ahead of time by requiring bipartisan presence when anyone is near the machines.
The information that is available ahead of time is generally limited to numbers of votes cast, party affiliation, sometimes names, and is public information (so it is accessible to everyone). GOTV efforts often rely on it to target voters who have not yet voted.
I don't recall any quirks that would make Georgia different - but I don't have that information at my fingertips anymore.
Motownman78
(491 posts)is really a toss-up. Plus you probably have people not truthfully letting on who they will vote for like what happened in 2016.
diva77
(7,684 posts)I can't remember where I read that there was a larger spread, but a 3% lead is too close - definitely not comfortable!
Motownman78
(491 posts)Motownman78
(491 posts)edhopper
(33,667 posts)to win.
And that everybody thinks it's normal.
diva77
(7,684 posts)with even a sliver of a lead...but they're not, unfortunately
YCHDT
(962 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)So, hell yes, I hope he doesn't concede. I could not care less if it "makes Dems look bad". Gerrymandering, voter suppression, and hacking make the rethugs look a hell of a lot worse.
diva77
(7,684 posts)Motownman78
(491 posts)Most people don't pay attention, and all they would see are "Democrats barely lose GA-06 race, Ossoff refusing to concede" breaking news banners.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)It would be national news. It would give Faux Nooze something to rant about for a week at least.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)The polls have not even opened, much less closed, all the recent polling data shows it within the margin of error, and people are screaming that if we lose it has to be fraud with nothing that rises to a level even close to being considered evedince in this case there on the table to back them up.
brooklynite
(95,007 posts)diva77
(7,684 posts)while, in fact, this was happening:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/26/volkswagen-scandal-emissions-tests-john-german-research
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
snip...The Volkswagen emissions scandal (also called "emissionsgate" or "dieselgate" started on 18 September 2015, when the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act to German automaker Volkswagen Group. The agency had found that Volkswagen had intentionally programmed turbocharged direct injection (TDI) diesel engines to activate some emissions controls only during laboratory emissions testing. The programming caused the vehicles' NOx output to meet US standards during regulatory testing but emit up to 40 times more NOx in real-world driving.[15] Volkswagen deployed this programming in about eleven million cars worldwide, and 500,000 in the United States, during model years 2009 through 2015.[16][17][18][19]...snip
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I use the above info. as an analogy for computerized "voting" machines - whether DREs, Central tabulators, optiscans, etc. have many vulnerabilities that are undetectable by just looking at them. The burden of proof needs to be on the machines to prove that they are not vulnerable to malicious code or other modes of impairing the voting process. They are simply not transparent and until the burden of proof is met, the most efficient, transparent way to conduct our elections is with hand counted paper ballots at the precinct level with public oversight. An election is a one day event and to depend on all IT to function 100% even if it were transparent, is an unrealistic expectation.
brooklynite
(95,007 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 27, 2017, 10:19 PM - Edit history (1)
The averge candidate, campaign manager or Party Chair is an expert in political mechanics...
diva77
(7,684 posts)brooklynite
(95,007 posts)diva77
(7,684 posts)I'm done with this thread for now...there are so many things I disagree with you about...
Good luck to you.
Chipper Chat
(9,708 posts)Ossoff will be in the lead all day and early evening let,s say 52 to 48 then around 11 pm a sudden surge of miraculously found republican votes from the "rural areas" wii flip the vote to 51 Handel to 49 ossoff. Same old shit. God I hope I'm wrong.
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)Chipper Chat
(9,708 posts)I remember how stunned I was at that result.