I really feel for the Appalachian coal miners. Thousands have lost jobs. But millions of others

[nikibatts]

have also lost jobs and livelihoods. Just ask the millions of women and me who worked in telephone services, linemen, operators and others. Just talk to a few men and women of the thousands who lost jobs in sanitation, parking lot attendants, supermarket and bank cashiers. People need to get a grip and understand that this nation and other nations are NOT going back to the way things used to be. Your problem are with the billionaire oligarch who now find it more profitable to just hand money around among themselves, built high tech business that require little or no real workforce. Large sections of the building industry are now prefab and even the building industry requires fewer workers and especially highly trained carpenters and bricklayers. Even the infrastructure we are about to fix up will require far fewer jobs as automated toll roads and modern road materials require less maintenance.

The con is right about creating Apprentice jobs but his plan is not inclusive and not far-reaching enough to make major impact for a long time. The two main industries that will produce the most good paying jobs are the two industries that the GOP and its RW bigots are trying to kill off: green energy and healthcare.

We are not doing a good job of messaging!

[yardwork]

1. Hillary presented detailed plans for bringing green industry to Appalachia.

But people preferred to give in to their sexist, racist, xenophobic resentments and believe the orange liar instead.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Yup

That's the exact point that you see get buried as often as possible.

[we can do it]

14. Yep, it's hard time feeling sorry for people who continue to hurt themselves by supporting bigots.

[Adrahil]

17. Thank you!

So sick of the "bad messaging" bullshit.

Our side has detailed plans of how to help these folks and we've talked about them until we are blue in the face. But what they WANT to hear is "we'll give you your old jobs back."

That ain't happening. But the Deplorables don't wanna hear it.

[lunamagica]

20. Thank you!

[Sunlei]

21. I remember, Hillary had detailed plans for green energy. ACA has already created over 400,000 jobs!

green energy and healthcare are where the jobs are!

[Bleacher Creature]

28. All of this. I agree with it 100%. NT

[Hekate]

31. Very true, she did. Also infuriating and sad not being able to penetrate the culture of grievance. n

[HAB911]

2. Brother in arms

very well put. I spent 45 years installing central offices and pbx around the country. Today it's all being dumpsterized. It's called progress and all those snowflakes that want to return to 1950 need to get real.

[luvMIdog]

4. One of my first jobs was on a PBX. :) No one knows what they are now :)

[irisblue]

10. I did that as a work study job @ college in the mid 70s

I'm feeling old now.

[lunasun]

26. Or imagine you still insist on making vacuum tubes . Trump bring back vacuum tube manufacturing

Sure there are a few exceptions but it's an era gone
As you stated ..get real

[Hekate]

32. My dad worked on aircraft from the end of WWII for 45 years. He survived rolling layoffs...

...the whole time. I asked him once how he managed that, and he said the first men to get laid off permanently were the ones who only knew vacuum tubes.

He was an inspector, and kept learning on the job and at night school. In his 40s he started the 2-year electronics course at the local college, which took him 4 years of night classes to complete. He never was laid off.

[lunasun]

34. I've had to change course each time for the better imo .it sure did keep me from getting behind

as far as being employable. I know people who didn't want to learn again or change . You know what changed?
Their opportunities

[LuvLoogie]

30. Private Branch Exchanges are still being installed, but they are digital systems.

[HAB911]

35. Yep

In 1968 I worked on one of the last electromechanical PBX that was edging into digital with time division multiplexing on battery and ground. All subsequent were digital common control. Mainly what I was referencing was circuit switched vs IP. My home phone is IP and all the circuit switched central offices I helped install and test are planned to be removed soon.

[theophilus]

3. Totally agree.

All progressives should show empathy for others, even Republicans. That does not mean we need to sanction their horrible political choices. Only by caring for others do Progressives have a chance and we can't be selective.

The next step is to offer an alternative of hope and practical progress. Green Jobs and Healthcare should take the lead in all campaigns coming up for 2018. Keep is simple and go where the polling is. That doesn't mean we give up any of the hot button issues. We just need to refrain from pressing the buttons until we get into the position to actually do something.

[janterry]

5. The miners know this

they KNOW this. And yet they still voted against their own self-interest.

Like so many others

[Panich52]

6. Trump's "open coal mines" idea won't create that many

jobs anyway. Coal CEOs are moving on and mines in operation are increasingly automated. I get so mad & frustrated w/ my fellow Hillbillies for continuing to buy into the perverted "16 Tons" as tradition and their only means of economic relief. HRC's ideas on transforming econs to a more forward-thinking path was drowned out by "close the mines."

Manchin & other Dems barely holding on to seats feel a need to bolster the doomed coal path when they should be aiding those trying to break the destructive path. Apparently, the plague of "coal tradition" is so ingrained, that the coal chemical spill of couple years ago in southern WV has been forgotten.

I may live in PA, but I'm a WV Hillbilly thru & thru who loves many of the mountain traditions, but cringes over CIA's grip on the populace & economy.

[Blue_true]

12. The sad thing.

Is coal country is beautiful country. Leaders there can set up a green economy, tourism and medical tourism industry that far surpasses anything that coal ever done there. City folk will flock to mountain resorts that allow them to get away for a few days if those resorts are set up right and are maintained. A person needing medical care and convalescence and can afford to leave home for it would love to do that looking out on beautiful scenery from their hospital room. Even providing quality healthcare to locals can become an important economic engine if managed right.

[nikibatts]

22. It seems they only know mining and don't want to learn anything else. And Trump promised them so

there is that.

[Blue_true]

23. Look, coal is dead. Nothing will change that.

Natural gas is easier to use in power generation and nothing comes out of it but CO2. With coal, there are toxic chemicals in the burn gases, fouling of furnaces and a ash pile to get rid of. Even in red states, citizens won't accept dead forests and dumping of ash and it's toxins into rivers.

Even in the area of Coke for metal smelting, coal's days are numbered. Hightech ceramics that can work with natural gas and electric and can be reused and recycled will soon make coal obsolete.

[Panich52]

36. How true. And also sad that Trump has rescinded ban on

extraction industries on public lands, meaning those similar sites of natural beauty are subject to habitat-dividing access roads and contamination from noise & pollution.

As for those wild, wonderful hills, so suitable f/ the peaceful reflection you pointed out are more likely to be destroyed by mountaintopping than usual mining. Coal companies can take down a mountain w/ automation, and very few jobs are needed for that. Oh, and as the mountain is leveled, the streams & valleys are filled in. WV had only had 1 tornado until recently—those hills protect the state.

BTW, "Last Week w/ John Oliver" covers coal this week. Ought to watch.

[duncang]

7. One other sad point.

Is some of them will wait around for his promised jobs.

[Blue_true]

13. Yep, to their detriment. nt

[Ilsa]

9. I watched a portion of my county's public building

being built. The exterior walls on three sides were pre-fab. It took a giant crane operator and a few others to put them up in a couple of days.

A lot of jobs of yesteryear are going away, or fewer of those positions are needed. But new jobs are coming developing. But we will need an educated workforce to be able to learn those jobs.

[Blue_true]

15. We need politicians to start seriously thinking about guaranteed income for all adults.

Automation, AI and other technology will eventually eliminate 85-90% of all jobs, then what? We can't out train that. A elite, highly educated and skilled 10-15% will either have jobs or own the means of production, society can't survive that without GI for those with no work available. If someone on GI find small work on the side, let them have it without risking their GI. GI would also bring uncomfortable issues about who should have children and how many. A GI world could have ugly undertones if not conceived right and fairly, but the coming alternative certainly won't work.

[procon]

11. In the 70s when the So Cal aerospace industry was booming

there were very successful apprenticeship programs in partnership. My brother went straight from high school to our local JC and signed up for the full time training program. It was a partnership between local, state and federal governments, unions and employers that covered the cost so kids just had to show up on time. Local buses offered discounted fares and many business gave out coupons and special prices to those in the program.

Kids started off learning the basics in the classroom and then moved to one of the local aerospace manufacturing plants to team up with union workers for hands on job training. They got paid, but had to follow the rules and some kids just couldn't cut it and got dropped. My brother was so proud of his first paycheck and like most of the participants, he was hired by the company he apprenticed at and worked there until he retired.

Even on a small scale, partnership apprenticeship programs in could revitalize many communities. The initial costs would be mitigated by the return of money being spent when those apprentices learn new skills and started earning a paycheck.

[mopinko]

16. health care jobs were #1 in coal country

but, yeah, cant have that. kill obamacare.
the stoopid.

[lindysalsagal]

18. You forgot education. Teaching jobs are jobs. They're gonna reduce it to minimum wage abuse.

With no perks, and won't that be fun when there's no healthcare....

[crazycatlady]

19. Much of coal country is losing population

When there are no jobs, people don't have as many kids and the schools lose population so fewer teachers will be needed.

Many coal country kids get out as soon as they graduate and don't return.

[Xolodno]

24. Yes we are doing a good job....its a different problem...

Denial, Fear and Blame.

Denial

They see the writing on the wall, they know that coal mining is bad for their health...but somehow think they can magically beat it unlike their father, grandfather, uncles, etc., they know the jobs aren't coming back...but think, "hey I might get a job in coal mining and it may last my working years and I sure can't have regulations finish it early". "But my neighbor Bob here, may not get a job, but he'll find something".

Fear

All they know is coal mining...and were told when they were young and followed through that coal mining will take care of you and your family so don't bother too much with school. When they hear "green energy", tourism, healthcare, etc. along with new training...they panic. They honestly do not believe they are smart enough or have the capabilities to get a job in a new industry. So they fear they won't be able to provide, they fear they will end up on government aid...aid they voted to cut, fear being the person who uses the undeniable state debit card at the grocery store.

Blame

They don't to accept responsibility of their denial and fear, but look for someone and/or something to blame. As its easier to accept. Deflecting responsibility is far easier than accepting it. So they willingly buy into the snake oil of the politician who says "liberals and their regulations" and their church minister who says "they are being punished by God for the "indecency" of others". It's easy to say, its nothing I've done...when, actuality, in regards to not accepting reality, it is.

[jaysunb]

33. +1 n/t

[3catwoman3]

25. One of many things I find hard to understand...

...is why anyone would prefer to work underground at a dangerous, dirty, physically exhausting job that can kill you if something goes wrong, when you could work in a clean modern plant at safe job. If the income were the same, whyever not?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. I worked as a telephone operator for Ma Bell

for about three years, starting in 1967.

At the time direct long-distance dialing was still in its infancy, and many long distance calls were placed through operators. But almost every local call was by then directly dialed. I was told by the woman who trained me, who'd started working as an operator 50 years earlier, that if all calls still had to go through operators (often called "Central), then every single adult woman in the country (because the operators were exclusively women at the time) would be needed to do that work.

That's just one small example.

And the potential jobs in green energy are many. But idiots like Trump seem to think that coal is the energy future of this country. His ignorance should no longer astonish me, but it does.

[liberal N proud]

29. Nope, I don't feel sorry for those fools

I feel for the children who have to suffer because their I'll informed parents vote against their own future.

I have driven through Appalachia many times, stopped and listened to the people, they have no clue about worldly things, they have no clue how they are part of or how they are affected by world events.

They took us all down this long dark path into trump hell.