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babylonsister

(171,070 posts)
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 05:51 PM Mar 2017

Today's Russia hearings actually revealed something new and important

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/03/30/todays-russia-hearings-actually-revealed-something-new-and-important/?utm_term=.44ebe4a3c718

Today’s Russia hearings actually revealed something new and important
By Sarah Posner March 30 at 4:15 PM


snip//


In a moment that stunned the hearing room, Watts flatly stated that the president himself has become a cog in such Russian measures. When asked by Oklahoma Republican James Lankford, who appeared visibly dismayed, why, if Russians have long used these methods, they finally worked in this election cycle, Watts’ answer was extraordinary.

“I think this answer is very simple and is one no one is really saying in this room,” he said. Part of the reason, he went on, “is the commander in chief has used Russian active measures at times against his opponents.”

To buttress the claim that Trump (unwittingly or not) aided Russian disinformation efforts, Watts cited several instances. Among them: Trump’s citation of an apparently false Sputnik story at an October 2016 campaign appearance; his ongoing denial before and after the campaign of U.S. intelligence of Russian interference in the election; his claims of voter fraud and election rigging, which Watts said was pushed by RT and Sputnik; and Trump’s questioning of the citizenship of former President Barack Obama and even his primary rival Ted Cruz.

Watts added that one of the reasons such tactics are working is that Trump and/or his surrogates have repeated some of the claims, further spreading them through social media accounts that are owned both by real people and bots. Thus, the disinformation is kept alive and gradually becomes more real and plausible. “Part of the reason active measures work is because they parrot the same lines,” Watts said.


Republicans on the committee today seemed to be grappling with the enormity of what this could mean
— and, crucially, that this threat should not be seen through a partisan prism. Rubio questioned Watts about a series of such false news stories and hoaxes, including claims that a thousand Muslims had burned down the oldest church in Germany while shouting “Allahu Akbar,” that migrants had raped a German girl, and that the European Union planned to ban snowmen as racist. (If you’ve ever spent time on alt-right social media, there’s a familiar ring to these stories: they are exactly the sort of thing that gets spread and recycled, and reverberate as supposed evidence of the nefariousness of say, Muslims, or the overreach of “political correctness.”)

Rubio seemed to suggest that he sees these tactics as intended to divide Americans from one another. “Aren’t we in the midst of a blitzkrieg, for lack of a better term, of informational warfare conducted by Russian trolls, under the command of Vladimir Putin,” Rubio asked, that is designed to divide Americans “politically, socioeconomically, demographically, and the like?” Watts confirmed that one of the aims of Russian active measures is to “play on ethnic divisions.”

It’s not clear yet how much significance these revelations have, if any, to the ongoing probe into possible Russian-Trump campaign collusion. But the gravity of today’s hearing — combined with the New York Times revelations — may prod Senate Republicans into stepping up, particularly to fill the vacuum caused by Nunes’ plummeting credibility.
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Today's Russia hearings actually revealed something new and important (Original Post) babylonsister Mar 2017 OP
Here's the thing, whether they coordinate w/Russia or not, FOX & rightwing media have done this KittyWampus Mar 2017 #1
Precisely malaise Mar 2017 #3
Exactly! Blue_Roses Mar 2017 #21
While that is true NewJeffCT Mar 2017 #38
You can hear the excuses now gratuitous Mar 2017 #2
This. teezy Mar 2017 #27
The "locker room talk" defense. Hugin Mar 2017 #37
My favorite part: "I think this answer is very simple and is one no one is really saying in this Amaryllis Mar 2017 #4
Excellent! BadgerMom Mar 2017 #5
Yes indeedy. LOL iluvtennis Mar 2017 #8
We need evidence of Trump or aides conspiring so the phrase "unwittingly or not" isn't necessary. Hoyt Mar 2017 #6
They use the "some people say ..." or "I just saw/read ..." dodge bigbrother05 Mar 2017 #34
The web brigades of St. Petersburg, Russia Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2017 #7
So, if you disagree with tRump. Will you get a visit from the invrabbit Mar 2017 #9
Well, now that our online privacy is being taken away, who knows? nt babylonsister Mar 2017 #11
Another chill down my spine... LakeArenal Mar 2017 #10
So this explains all the insane stories constantly pushed by the extreme right! Kablooie Mar 2017 #12
Puts a new light on the FAUX hypnotism machine. Amaryllis Mar 2017 #13
Yup, read George Lakoff davekriss Mar 2017 #14
And the insane stories pushed by the extreme left. yardwork Mar 2017 #24
Yes- let's not forget Wiki Leaks mania scooped up loads of lefties too! bettyellen Mar 2017 #28
They count on the repetition to mask the circular links bigbrother05 Mar 2017 #35
KnR Hekate Mar 2017 #15
Wonder if it's zentrum Mar 2017 #16
I share that with him. I feel it and I don't even know babylonsister Mar 2017 #26
Russia wants global warming to double their arable farmland... bettyellen Mar 2017 #29
Agree. Utter ruthlessness. nt zentrum Mar 2017 #32
Divide and conquer bucolic_frolic Mar 2017 #17
Agreed and "play on ethnic divisions" Get the People fighting with each other. MarcA Mar 2017 #18
Watts was so great today Nwgirl503 Mar 2017 #19
OMG. This is actually distressing to hear this information. nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2017 #20
Really? These fake stories have been all over DU for more than a year. yardwork Mar 2017 #23
But...but...his name is CLINTON Watts! Which proves he's just shilling for the Clintons! TrollBuster9090 Mar 2017 #22
Recommended. H2O Man Mar 2017 #25
Excellent post, Babylonsister! herding cats Mar 2017 #30
I thought that Watts' testimony was excellent. n/t MBS Mar 2017 #31
"Trumps questioning of the citizenship of former President Barack Obama and even his primary rival Cha Mar 2017 #33
Did You Ever Notice How, During the Election Campaign, panfluteman Mar 2017 #36
 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
1. Here's the thing, whether they coordinate w/Russia or not, FOX & rightwing media have done this
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 05:54 PM
Mar 2017

for decades.

malaise

(269,049 posts)
3. Precisely
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 05:59 PM
Mar 2017

and sadly so have the US government and American interests in several countries.

It's a fugging mess

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
38. While that is true
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:52 AM
Mar 2017

Facebook has a much bigger audience than Fox News, as does Twitter.

Wasn't the fake news story about the pope (whom Trump insulted) endorsing Trump shared millions of times across Facebook and Twitter, while the debunking from Snopes was shared like 20,000 times?

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
2. You can hear the excuses now
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 05:57 PM
Mar 2017

"Oh, Candidate Trump didn't mean anything by it when he told the hackers to hit Secretary Clinton." It's truly amazing how President Trump's defenders can read his mind so perfectly, knowing precisely when he's just jacking it and when he's deadly serious. Anything that sounds ominous is supposed to be a joke - until Trump follows through, that is. Then it's "You libtards should have known he means what he says!" But if you take Trump seriously from the get-go, it's "Can't you take a joke? He's just kidding around!"

teezy

(269 posts)
27. This.
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 09:21 PM
Mar 2017

Someone on Twitter nailed it when they described Trump voter rationale as "pretzel logic". These people work overtime making idiotic excuses for the indefensible and drawing unrelated parallels (Trump treason vs. Hilary e-mails). They're acrobats of bullshit.

Hugin

(33,162 posts)
37. The "locker room talk" defense.
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:15 AM
Mar 2017

Yep, I've heard the Trumpanzees may resort to such a thing on occasion. So, it would seem.

Amaryllis

(9,524 posts)
4. My favorite part: "I think this answer is very simple and is one no one is really saying in this
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 06:12 PM
Mar 2017

Last edited Thu Mar 30, 2017, 07:45 PM - Edit history (1)

room." He named the elephant in the room. (pardon the pun).

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
6. We need evidence of Trump or aides conspiring so the phrase "unwittingly or not" isn't necessary.
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 06:35 PM
Mar 2017
"To buttress the claim that Trump (unwittingly or not) aided Russian disinformation efforts, Watts cited . . . . . ."

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
34. They use the "some people say ..." or "I just saw/read ..." dodge
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 08:56 AM
Mar 2017

Rinse, lather, repeat.

Contrast with McCain calling out the "Obama is a Muslim" nitwits in 2008.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
7. The web brigades of St. Petersburg, Russia
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 06:50 PM
Mar 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades

Ukraine conflict: Inside Russia's Kremlin troll army, BBC http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31962644

Documents Show How Russia's Troll Army Hit America". BuzzFeed. 2014-07-08 http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america

http://kremlintrolls.com/
There now is a new site to address Kremlin active measures, particularly as those manifest themselves online. Note: there is no connection between this site (kremlintrolls.com) or me (@webradius) and the person or persons currently d/b/a @kremlintrolls on Twitter.


http://aktivnyye.com/t/20161125-one_simple_trick.html
Put another way, if you start with any given piece of disinformation and try to trace it back to the source, you're doing it the hard way. Spend a little time observing how disinformation is distributed in support of Kremlin policy objectives and you will start noticing the same people and patterns of behavior. Identify the distribution channels and you will know what the latest Kremlin campaign is not by analyzing the content or tracing it back to a particular website, but by noting who is distributing it, and where.

Note (added 2016-12-09): For an example of how this plays out in real time, see our article in the Daily Beast, and the addenda here. In short, we were already monitoring people like Marcel Sardo due to their involvement in distributing or promoting disinfo. So rather than finding a story about a non-existent attack on the NATO base at Incerlik and trying to trace it back to a source, we noted that Sardo was trying to make something of a story about an attack on the base at Incerlik that as far as we knew did not occur. It's small but important distinction.

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
12. So this explains all the insane stories constantly pushed by the extreme right!
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 07:27 PM
Mar 2017

They are deliberately devised by Russian hackers and widely spread through right wing media by bots!
After it's been repeated enough times on many, many sites people are tricked into thinking it's real.

davekriss

(4,618 posts)
14. Yup, read George Lakoff
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 07:39 PM
Mar 2017

Very effective strategy. Lakoff also gives advice on what we should do, and should not do, in response. (At work so can't hunt down links right now, but Google - or DuckDuckGo - is our friend.)

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
35. They count on the repetition to mask the circular links
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 08:58 AM
Mar 2017

Drop a big enough turd in the cesspool and someone will report it as a tsunami.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
16. Wonder if it's
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 07:49 PM
Mar 2017

....a piece of Russian propaganda when Trump says climate change is a hoax perpetuated by China, of all places.

I think it's hard for us to imagine the depth of contempt that Putin feels for his puppet.

babylonsister

(171,070 posts)
26. I share that with him. I feel it and I don't even know
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 09:06 PM
Mar 2017

what's really going on-yet.

But there's lots of it to go around, and Putin is right up there with dt.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
29. Russia wants global warming to double their arable farmland...
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 09:45 PM
Mar 2017

It fits in well with their plans to drill in the attic with the technology that only Exxon can give them.

bucolic_frolic

(43,176 posts)
17. Divide and conquer
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 07:55 PM
Mar 2017

Blackmail the usurper, weaken democracy, plunder the commons,
collapse the currency, and America falls.

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
18. Agreed and "play on ethnic divisions" Get the People fighting with each other.
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 08:11 PM
Mar 2017

And its probably more than just the Russian Mafia.

Nwgirl503

(406 posts)
19. Watts was so great today
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 08:29 PM
Mar 2017

We need more of him. I also loved where he brought up how many Russians have ended up dead in the last few months.

yardwork

(61,649 posts)
23. Really? These fake stories have been all over DU for more than a year.
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 09:00 PM
Mar 2017

None of this is a surprise to me. I'm glad that it's being discussed.

herding cats

(19,565 posts)
30. Excellent post, Babylonsister!
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 09:54 PM
Mar 2017

I had an extensive discussion on this topic over dinner with my spouse and another couple tonight. We had a (recorded) watch party of sorts.

This is a stand out moment of the hearing. Not the only one, but a big one.

Cha

(297,289 posts)
33. "Trumps questioning of the citizenship of former President Barack Obama and even his primary rival
Thu Mar 30, 2017, 11:47 PM
Mar 2017
Ted Cruz."

I want that to forever come back and bite him hard.

And, this.. " Watts confirmed that one of the aims of Russian active measures is to “play on ethnic divisions.”

panfluteman

(2,065 posts)
36. Did You Ever Notice How, During the Election Campaign,
Fri Mar 31, 2017, 09:06 AM
Mar 2017

Whenever Trump opened his mouth, it was always to sow division and hatred, pitting this group against that group or another? It seemed to be so instinctive and automatic, almost like a knee jerk reaction with him. Well heck - if Watts is right, he was just following the same basic strategy as Putin's trolls and bots. And isn't that de facto collusion right there?

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