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RandySF

(61,308 posts)
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 07:23 PM Dec 2016

Interesting talk with my dad's UAW neighbor

I'm in Michigan to visit dad for the holidays and had an interesting talk with his next door neighbor who happens to be a Skilled Trades UAW member. Over the course of the conversation, he mentioned that many of his coworkers ("all the ones who aren't black) voted from Trump despite the fact everyone is working all the overtime and double time they can handle. And my jaw dropped when he said even unionized teachers voted for Agent Orange as well (he coaches at a local school). So please, someone remind me about the "left behind" that Democrats forgot?

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Interesting talk with my dad's UAW neighbor (Original Post) RandySF Dec 2016 OP
Why? And who did they vote for in 2008? n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #1
They voted for Obama. former9thward Dec 2016 #11
All the serious analysis indicates that "Obama" voters really did not become tRump voters etherealtruth Dec 2016 #13
Kick themselves? Or bemoan vote suppression? KamaAina Dec 2016 #15
No Michigan law prevented counting votes where the tally's did not match etherealtruth Dec 2016 #16
Complacency. yallerdawg Dec 2016 #17
I am ashamed to admit that my youngest child (first presidential election) etherealtruth Dec 2016 #19
They're about to be in for a rude awakening. nt. SaschaHM Dec 2016 #2
They're about to be in for a rude awakening. LenaBaby61 Dec 2016 #28
Serious question:. Does this come as a surprise? AngryAmish Dec 2016 #3
I'm not at all surprised. EL34x4 Dec 2016 #10
When I was growing up, unions were some of the most racist organizations in the country. Hoyt Dec 2016 #4
Agreed Caliman73 Dec 2016 #8
I worked in a steel mill back in the 70s. The company and union was forced to agree to a doc03 Dec 2016 #9
Agreed :-( etherealtruth Dec 2016 #14
My union backed Hillary lunatica Dec 2016 #5
I believe their unions did as well, but according to this story, that's not how many of the members hughee99 Dec 2016 #7
The Teamsters also backed Portman in Ohio. former9thward Dec 2016 #18
Maybe they will like right to work. Historic NY Dec 2016 #6
I used to be active in a union marylandblue Dec 2016 #12
This is one of the most interesting threads I have seen on DU in a while... madinmaryland Dec 2016 #20
Once again voting against their best interests. Initech Dec 2016 #21
Agent Kay probably said it best cstanleytech Dec 2016 #23
Reagan Democrats bucolic_frolic Dec 2016 #22
Both my sons working union jobs mountain grammy Dec 2016 #24
This is true. And they would have pulled it off alone, but Russia helped them. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #25
Are they male or female? taught_me_patience Dec 2016 #26
That's some of it. But I know two female union members that voted for him. progressoid Dec 2016 #27
That's a shocker... They must really hate the Dept of Ed taught_me_patience Dec 2016 #29
Those two have been unusually quiet on Facebook since the election. progressoid Dec 2016 #30

former9thward

(32,368 posts)
11. They voted for Obama.
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:47 PM
Dec 2016

Across swing states — and others previously thought to be safe for Democrats — Trump colored dozens of counties red that hadn’t gone Republican in decades. Of the nearly 700 counties that twice sent Obama to the White House, a stunning one-third flipped to support Trump. Trump also won 194 of the 207 counties that voted for Obama either in 2008 or 2012.

Across swing states — and others previously thought to be safe for Democrats — Trump colored dozens of counties red that hadn’t gone Republican in decades.

By contrast, of those 2,200 counties that never supported Obama, Clinton was only able to win six. That’s just 0.3 percent crossover to the Democratic side.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/11/1595471/-The-reality-sets-in-and-MI-WI-PA-were-not-held-as-Obama-votes-went-to-Trump-Obama-voters

In 1996 Bill Clinton won almost half the counties in the U.S. In 2016 H. Clinton won only one fifth of the counties.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
13. All the serious analysis indicates that "Obama" voters really did not become tRump voters
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:53 PM
Dec 2016

Of course there are instances where this is true, but it is not how tRump won


Take Michigan for example. A state that Obama won in 2012 by 350,000 votes, Clinton lost by roughly 10,000. Why? She received 300,000 votes less than Obama did in 2012. Detroit and Wayne County should kick themselves because of the 595,253 votes they gave Obama in 2012, only 518,000 voted for Clinton in 2016. Mote than 75,000 Motown Obama voters did not bother to vote for Clinton! They did not become Trump voters – Trump received only 10,000 votes more than Romney did in this county. They simply stayed at home. If even a fraction of these lethargic Democrats had turned out to vote, Michigan would have stayed blue.

Wisconsin tells the same numbers story, even more dramatically. Trump got no new votes. He received exactly the same number of votes in America’s Dairyland as Romney did in 2012. Both received 1,409,000 votes. But Clinton again could not spark many Obama voters to turn out for her: she tallied 230,000 votes less than Obama did in 2012. This is how a 200,000-vote victory margin for Obama in the Badger State became a 30,000-vote defeat for Clinton.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/omribenshahar/2016/11/17/the-non-voters-who-decided-the-election-trump-won-because-of-lower-democratic-turnout/#40b71c0740a1
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
15. Kick themselves? Or bemoan vote suppression?
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:05 PM
Dec 2016

And did we ever find out why half the vote-tallying machines in Detroit were broken on election night?

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
16. No Michigan law prevented counting votes where the tally's did not match
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:10 PM
Dec 2016

Voting was "down" in Detroit .... and reported as such all day.

I am not in the camp believing that Clinton did not inspire voters (at least in Michigan) .... my feelings (and they are just my feelings) are that people didn't make a strong enough effort (were complacent) because they did not believe an ignorant malignant buffoon could actually win.

Unfortunately we are all paying for their complacency

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
19. I am ashamed to admit that my youngest child (first presidential election)
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:31 PM
Dec 2016

.... was "too tired" after work to go and vote (the other two proudly voted for Clinton).

He truly did not believe it was possible for that fool to win .... unfortunately, that is a story i have heard multiple times (purely anecdotal ....however, my initial link isn't )

LenaBaby61

(6,987 posts)
28. They're about to be in for a rude awakening.
Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:02 AM
Dec 2016

Yep ....

NO overtime.

Little or no health insurance, and if they DO have health insurance it'll be just not like having ANY.

Oh well ... they get what they voted for. Unfortunately, so will those of us who weren't idiots and fools.




 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
3. Serious question:. Does this come as a surprise?
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 07:34 PM
Dec 2016

If so, I posit your model of human cognition does not comport with reality.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
10. I'm not at all surprised.
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:37 PM
Dec 2016

I just didn't see Hillary trying to connect with these white, blue collar union guys. Trump, on the other hand, took the effort.

Caliman73

(11,764 posts)
8. Agreed
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:28 PM
Dec 2016

While Unions are generally seen positively by Democrats and progressives because they have fought for and supported the rights of working and middle class people to bargain collectively, our ignorance of the history of the country and Unions does not serve us well with regards to what tends to drive people's actions.

Union members are just regular people who happen to be in positions now, that were able to organize at one point. Being in a Union doesn't make you tolerant or enlightened in any way. It just means you banded together with others for your common interests. Unions historically excluded Blacks and Latinos until they were unable to either legally or socially anymore. They reflected all facets of the population at the time that they were created and depending on the general membership.

Unions are good things in general, but not all union members are good people individually. Unions have done some pretty bad things in their histories as well, so it isn't a surprise that some Union members would vote for Trump. They think that their benefits and salaries are safe so why not vote against those "elitist", "PC", "Liberals" with their gay marriage and no prayer in school. The sad thing is that they will realize too late that they made a mistake, and we all have to pay for it.

doc03

(35,584 posts)
9. I worked in a steel mill back in the 70s. The company and union was forced to agree to a
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:31 PM
Dec 2016

Consent Decree over racial discrimination. When blacks were hired for their first assignment they
were put in the blast furnace or the coke plant, the two dirtiest worst paying departments. At that time
we had departmental seniority so you were locked in those jobs for life. So in order to get out of millions
of dollars in fines the companies and unions agreed to a re-alignment. What that was they eliminated
departmental seniority and to plant seniority starting at the oldest person in the plant and gave them the
choice of what department they would work in. It caused lots of bad feelings at the time the government
even sent Federal Marshals in to force the white employees to break the blacks in. I retired in 2009 and
by then I think everyone worked very well together especially as the older ones retired.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
7. I believe their unions did as well, but according to this story, that's not how many of the members
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:27 PM
Dec 2016

voted.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
12. I used to be active in a union
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:52 PM
Dec 2016

And I found that union leadership could be as out of touch as any other "elitist."

madinmaryland

(64,938 posts)
20. This is one of the most interesting threads I have seen on DU in a while...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:32 PM
Dec 2016

We have been seeing the Archie Bunkerism of unions over the last 40 years, which led to the Reagan Democrats. Enough Democratic Union members have changed their allegiances to Repubican, while supporting the busting of their unions. I don't know what the motivation is. Some are saying it is racism, which it may well be. It is most likely racism fomented by the ruling billionaires to create a divide in the working class.

cstanleytech

(26,467 posts)
23. Agent Kay probably said it best
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:11 PM
Dec 2016

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
In this case the largest effect was probably due to the empty promise to bring back jobs and many people fell for it lock stock and barrel.

bucolic_frolic

(43,977 posts)
22. Reagan Democrats
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:09 PM
Dec 2016

Cultural issues (LGBTQ - bathroom issues, wedding cakes - marijuana, affirmative action, equal pay)
did not go well with these folks. Obama policy moved too fast, HRC ran with it and ignored blue collar
America. Our pollsters said they knew how every household would vote. Their campaign was built on
polls, issues, registrations, GOTV. But something different was going on. Personally, I think they were
too young to understand that. But what do I know.

mountain grammy

(26,766 posts)
24. Both my sons working union jobs
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:26 PM
Dec 2016

told me the same. They think it's the macho trump, a lot of misogyny, and, of course, the all time favorite, racism. They're both disgusted and disillusioned and so am I, but our states went for Hillary, so there's that.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
29. That's a shocker... They must really hate the Dept of Ed
Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:09 AM
Dec 2016

And common core. I wonder what they think of devoss and her plans to privatize education and starve public education.

progressoid

(50,117 posts)
30. Those two have been unusually quiet on Facebook since the election.
Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:19 AM
Dec 2016

On the plus side, another teacher I know put a scathing post about Devoss on facebook. She was NOT happy. And she rarely makes political statements.

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