David Freaking Frum- We Might Have To Remove Trump Due To Psychological Problems

[KittyWampus]

My mind is officially blown

On O'Donnell's show just now, David-Freaking-Frum just said we can rid of a POTUS via Impeachment or Article 25 of the Constitution

Amendment 25 - Presidential Disability and Succession

1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

What precipitated this?

Flynn as National Security Advisor. Frum said the National Security apparatus is blowing up at Flynn's appointment. Flynn is compromised and represents the penetration of Russia into American political system.


DAVID FREAKING FRUM

[Hekate]

1. Over the period of this campaign, we have found out who the real conservatives are, versus the...

....batshit crazy RW radicals.

Frum is a conservative.

[Dorian Gray]

35. I believe this is true

True conservatives seem horrified by the Trump situation. I have a little respect for that, even though I feel like the Republican Party set this in motion by their divisive social issue agenda.

[PatSeg]

51. And the flat out opportunists

The ones who have no real ideology or conscience. Everything they do is for self gain.

[LonePirate]

2. Removing Trump means President Pence. We're fucked either way.

There is a slight chance Trump might not embrace all aspects of the disastrous Republican agenda; but he has the support of millions of racists in this country.

Pence will quickly sign every horrific bill from a Republican Congress; but I don't think he commands the support of Trump's racist army.

We lose in both scenarios.

[Zorro]

3. Yep. Pence wants to turn the USA into a theocracy

[TeamPooka]

28. Pence is the Star Wars defence system protecting Trump as president.

[Feeling the Bern]

29. Like Quayle was for Bush

[2naSalit]

31. Yup...

insurance against any malady of the POTUS inflicted by the people.

[jg10003]

21. Pence is a right-wing religious ideologue, but at least he is not a wannabe strongman.

Trump is an existential threat to the republic. Pence merely has bad policy ideas. Trump wants to be the American version of Putin. Pence is just very conservative. The Republic can survive a President Pence. If Pence is president then we can elect Elizabeth Warren in 4 years and get the country back on track. But the constitutional republic that has endured for 228 years may not survive President Trump.

[Silver Gaia]

42. I have to agree. This would be an act of desperation, but Trump is insane.

I detest Mike Pence, but he is actually a Republican politician, just a far-right one. He is not, so far as I can tell, batshit crazy. Indiana survived having him as governor, and I believe we can survive him as POTUS. I fear that we would not survive 4 years of Trump as POTUS. He is dangerous.

[Fast Walker 52]

52. I concur

[still_one]

22. It buys us one thing, it will create a delay to go through the process, and that delay might

slow down some of the damage that they can cause

[Silver Gaia]

43. I agree with this, too.

[Patiod]

48. Good point

[wordpix]

56. "slow down some of the damage they can cause" - that goes for Trump's

incompetence, too. As long as he keeps doing stupid shit like floating Ghouly for Sec. of State, the wheels will be grinding very slowly.

[still_one]

57. of course

[Hortensis]

60. Vox's Matthew Iglesias feels that a Prez Pence would avoid the worst

danger of a Trump presidency--a super-entrenched kleptocracy of government and business committed to sustaining itself after destroying real institutional opposition, such as by the news media, by destroying some opponents to persuade the rest to fold.

Very interesting.

We have 100 days to stop Donald Trump from systemically corrupting our institutions: The transition period is our last best chance to save the republic

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/17/13626514/trump-systemic-corruption

[Ruth Bonner]

67. Excellent, chilling article. Thanks. EOM

[TheBlackAdder]

66. While Pence is abhorrent, Indiana is still livable. Can one truly live in Trump's vision of America?

[UTUSN]

4. Let's get that train *going*!1 The whole country should have seen the whackness from Day 1

All the talk about, "Let's give him a chance" is total B.S.

[madaboutharry]

5. David Frum has been beside himself since the primaries ended.

There were moments when he looked like his health was at risk. I have always loathed his republican politics, but he always struck me as a principled man. He is genuinely outraged and deeply fears for this country. He is a real patriot.

[LeftInTX]

6. I used to read his Frum Forum column during the 2012 primaries

He didn't have much patience for the clown car. From his writings I thought he was a moderate, but later on, I found out he was a neocon.

It's pretty bad when neocons are the new moderates

[LeftInTX]

7. Flynn is also Turkish dictator Erdogan's paid lap dog

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/lt-gen-michael-t-flynn-gu_b_13013248.html

Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, a Trump national security adviser, has been paid by Turkish money laundered through a Dutch company to lobby on behalf of the Turkish government. More than bad judgement, Flynn’s egregious conduct raises ethical questions. It also casts doubt on his suitability for public office.

The Flynn Intel Group signed a contract with the Dutch company, Inovo BV, on September 15. The contract requires Flynn to lobby on appropriations bills for the departments of State and Defense. Flynn’s duties also include keeping his client informed about “the transition between President Obama and President-Elect Trump.”

Inovo BV is thinly capitalized and operates in deficit on an ongoing basis. Did Flynn vet Inovo BV before signing his deal? Was he willfully ignorant about where the money was coming from?

Inovo BV is a front organization for Inovo Turkije, which profits from contracts with the Turkish government. Ekim Alptek, a close associate of Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, founded both Inovo BV and Inovo Turkije. Alptekin is chairman of the Turkish-American Business Council, an arm of the Foreign Economic Relations Board of Turkey, whose members are designated by the Economy Minister and the Turkish Grand National Assembly.

snip......

and from article that he wrote in his own words on Nov 8th

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/305021-our-ally-turkey-is-in-crisis-and-needs-our-support

Our ally Turkey is in crisis and needs our support
By Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn

It is fair to say that most Americans don’t know exactly what to make of our ally Turkey these days, as it endures a prolonged political crisis that challenges its long-term stability. The U.S. media is doing a bang-up job of reporting the Erdoğan government’s crackdown on dissidents, but it’s not putting it into perspective.

We must begin with understanding that Turkey is vital to U.S. interests. Turkey is really our strongest ally against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), as well as a source of stability in the region. It provides badly needed cooperation with U.S. military operations. But the Obama administration is keeping Erdoğan’s government at arm’s length — an unwise policy that threatens our long-standing alliance.

The primary bone of contention between the U.S. and Turkey is Fethullah Gülen, a shady Islamic mullah residing in Pennsylvania whom former President Clinton once called his “friend” in a well circulated video.

snip.......

[Ligyron]

47. but, but... I thought Trump was giving the boot to lobbyists?

Booted one right into the white House.

[bench scientist]

58. and took from the Russian Government to speak and sat RIGHT next to Putin.

https://twitter.com/mcfaul/status/755162656873467904

and here is a picture of the Flynn NEXT to Putin.

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/799443870194860032


How in the WORLD can he be NSA?

[LisaM]

63. Is that Jill Stein in the picture too?

Strange bedfellows indeed.

[annabanana]

62. THIS is what should be all over the TV machine tonight.

I have never seen such a dangerous appointment.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

8. Isn't it a strange time when we find commonality with Frum and Glenn Beck?

[tosh]

14. Very strange, indeed.

There is no other way to describe it.

[Grey Lemercier]

15. no, politics makes strange bedfellows

The US is so stuck in a binary system, black and white bright lines, both structurally and philosophically. All my adult life has been lived, more or less, in nations (the UK the least fluid due to first past the post system) that have proportional representation in their parliaments. Coalitions have to be built (almost always) to rule, and many times ideologically dissimilar, divergent groups form necessary coalitions to defeat a common enemy.

The US appears to be at a crossroads where similar strategies just might have to be employed.

[tblue37]

24. Coalitions are built in the US within parties before the election, rather than between parties

after the election.

[Grey Lemercier]

25. you are thinking in binary mode again, and also straight jacketing yourself by erecting

a "party only" dynamic.

There are a multiplicity of actors of varying size and power that come from outside the latticework of the 2 official parties that can have large and widespread effects on the political processes of the country.

[kcr]

34. Look. We have a two party system in the US. It's a fact.

It isn't "Thinking in binary mode" to acknowledge our two party system. The poster you were responding to was merely explaining how it works in our system. Not thinking in binary mode.

[Grey Lemercier]

37. I have a degree in Political Science, amongst others, I am well aware of the deepest

aspects of the American System, which, as an aside, actually is the name of the Alexander Hamilton-designed original economic model of trade, government as driver of growth and the credit to enable that, a model that was so successful in the beginning of the nation.

The binary thinking I was referring to was the refusal to see beyond the official delineations amd demarcations of the 2 parties themselves, and reach out across power structures (for example NGO's and policy-focused think tanks) and also across idealogically disparate lines to find commonalities of some achievable goals at macro-political levels.

Try to walk back the newly hatched but already fanged and raging dragon of white alt-right enhanced nationalism for instance by linking up with some on the right who care for the holistic health of the body politic in terms of preventing a 4th Reich erected.

[peggysue2]

16. Pretty Scary

Isn't it? I've listened to Glenn Beck recently, a man who I've always perceived as flat-out crazed. Beck of the: 'empathy is the most dangerous word in the dictionary because it stands in the way of . . . liberty.'

What????

Yet suddenly, that raving, nonsensical Glenn Beck sounds--almost reasonable, aghast at Trump but even more so with Bannon, The Donald's Alt-right guru and the other orbiting sycophants.

We are indeed in strange times. But to fight the dark times coming, we may have to join with weird, unlikely bedfellows. Just to survive the destructive onslaught.

Winter is coming.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. I take Frum at his word. Beck is simply building a new persona so he can keep on keeping' on.

[Dorian Gray]

36. Because

Trump is freaking alarming.

I have friends who identify as conservative and they are horrified by Trump.

It's why I never in a million years thought he could win.

[Wilms]

9. Frum is a neocon. Trump isn't.

That's their problem with him.

[radical noodle]

12. It's more than that

Frum thinks he's dangerous, inept and unfit for president. He was like many other Republicans who thought Trump was not knowledgeable enough nor was he willing to learn anything.

[radical noodle]

10. Frum has been very vocal against Trump

both before and after the election. He highlights every issue. Follow him on Twitter. Yes, he's still a conservative but he will keep you informed correctly about Trump's misdeeds.

[Grey Lemercier]

11. Better brush up on the 25th Amendment if Trump wins (from August)

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/290204-better-brush-up-on-the-25th-amendment-if-trump-wins

The conventions are over. The tweets and the tantrums have only just intensified. President Obama played it cool, telling us not to fret or to worry. Instead he said, if you’re mad, or scared don’t boo: Vote. Still, it is hard not to worry or to fret; one-man-one-vote only goes so far within the scope of our electoral college. As such, a Donald Trump Presidency is no laughing matter, not anymore. Unfortunately, it never was!

Despite her party’s successes in Philadelphia, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has a long way to go to earn the trust of Americans. Her election is not inevitable, which is nearly unthinkable given who her chief rival is. Trump, the business mogul, reality television star and twitter handler could very well become the next president and leader of the free world.

As Trump’s campaign morphed from a political gamble and business risk, to winning and winning big, the Republican Party elected to nominate a man who wears his emotions on his twitter page. Trump is not discreet; he is not 140 characters shy. He routinely mixes bravado, mendacity, imprudent rhetoric and violent imagery to offer Americans a dark and gloomy alternative to Washington’s recipe for gridlock. It's Trump’s political game: to tear down and to personally attack his opponents. It is prudent and justified to question Trump’s fitness for the role of President of the United States.
As someone who works in the health and mental health field, the mere possibility of a Donald Trump presidency alarms me. How did he pass the proverbial litmus test? Did Trump’s privilege and billions of dollars in assets prevent his party from fully evaluating his competence to lead America, and the free world? Hindsight is always 20/20.

I understand the process by which Trump ran, was elected by voters, and was finally nominated by delegates of the GOP to be at the head of his party’s ballot. As a former student of history, I know that the democratic process must be respected, not resented. It’s why democracy works: it represents the voice of the masses, even the voiceless.

For democracy to continue to work, Americans must do their homework and prepare for a Trump Presidency.

To prepare for a Trump Presidency, I urge Americans to study and to know the 25th Amendment. Knowing what we know now about Trump, e.g., how he thinks and how he reacts, it is a real possibility that his cabinet might have to exercise their rights under the 25th Amendment to the Constitution, specifically Article II Section IV.

snip

[Quackers]

68. I had just found this. I'm glad someone has already shared it. nt

[Wounded Bear]

13. He was referencing Section 4...

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Basically, if the VP and both houses of Congress agree, we can have a coup.

So the Talibangelists have their opportunity to induce Christian Sharia to our country. Oh goodie.

[question everything]

17. That's what they want. To remove him and have Pence

as the more "acceptable" Republicans.

Can't wait to see all the riots with pitchforks.

[CanonRay]

18. So then we get Pence

Frying pan vs fire?

[burrowowl]

20. At the moment

it seems like there is no way out.

Go Warren! Go Sanders! People run for state, run for local!

I am so afraid that Fascism is here to stay.

[proud patriot]

23. What happens if

shit goes down prior to Inauguration ?

[cilla4progress]

26. Yes. I've been really looking forward to

When the right wingers turn on each other. Alas, I thought it would be with the election of Hillary. Instead it's us. But it will be far more vicious on the right.

[lonestarnot]

27. And the clock ticked up a couple of seconds.

[TygrBright]

30. "President Pence" are the only two words scarier than "President Trump" n/t

[DesertFlower]

32. he did say "it's very hard to do".

[world wide wally]

33. Why do I keep thinking of the Bataan Death March?

Like we are lemmings moving in slow motion to the edge of cliff and we see where we are headed, but there is no way to stop it.
Kind of a helpless feeling… isn't it?

[smirkymonkey]

40. That's a good way to describe it. That's pretty much exactly how I feel.

Like you said, the worst part of it is that you can see where it's headed but there is nothing we can do about it now. It's so demoralizing and depressing.

[KittyWampus]

46. I actually feel like it's just before Katrina hit. We were on DU and the meteorologists KNEW

that it would be catastrophic and were begging people to leave... yet the government in LA didn't force evacuations until it was too late and many people stayed.

And then the aftermath, with an incompetent crony at the head of FEMA.

[HAB911]

39. The coming Theocracy willl not be pretty

https://leanleft.com/2016/11/16/republicans-are-ready-to-unleash-the-most-unconstitutional-law-ever-conceived/

[Patiod]

49. I'm guessing it will not apply to taxes

Since my religion, in all seriousness, objects to paying taxes to fund the military.

But the IRS comes down damned hard on people who have tried to withhold the percent of their taxes that fund the military (which is fine, since the whole system would collapse if we all funded only our own pet projects0.

[HAB911]

50. It will open Pandora's Box

And there is absolutely no telling what it will lead to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028288021

[Fast Walker 52]

53. I don't sense the Pence will cancel our democracy, and we can beat him at the ballot box

[HAB911]

54. Gee, I wish I had your goggles

[boston bean]

41. If he is removed as a looney toon, how can they justify a looney tunes choice for VP?

[spanone]

44. frum wants pence.

[BSdetect]

45. With the lobbyist grip on the House members

there is no chance of getting them to risk losing their seats. There would have to be a deal with the DP to defeat the t party etc

Let's fix the Federal election rules. Make each state have the same voting rights and times for early voting. Fix the gerrymandering scams.

[wordpix]

55. Frum needs to check under his car every morning - Trumple won't like that!

I was amazed that Frum said it.

[Quackers]

69. The idea was actually floated in August on TheHill.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/290204-better-brush-up-on-the-25th-amendment-if-trump-wins

[SleeplessinSoCal]

59. Who is the logical successor to Trump views? Trump is unfit and proving himself moreso daily.

He needs to be booted asap. Expose the Putin hack and convince the electoral college to support the popular vote. There is time.

[red dog 1]

61. K&R

Trump will never be impeached by a Republican Congress - never!

[duffyduff]

64. Jeff Zucker is just salivating over the prospect.

The ratings will go through the roof.

Unfortunately, the prospect of Pence will sink the ratings and ad revenues to historic levels.

It'll be time to find another plane crash to cover endlessly.

[mrmpa]

65. If there is any way to rid us of Trump before...........

he takes the oath of office, it does not mean that Pence would be forwarded as the next President. He did not run nor was he elected to the position of President.

I don't know what would happen, but I believe it is in the best interest of the US that somehow Trump be compromised prior to January 20th.