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Wed Aug 10, 2016, 03:49 PM

 

Anyone else noticed that without Senator Sanders, discussion of issues has all but disappeared?

I'd love to see more posts about Hillary's plan to lower Medicare age to 55, and give us a public option, than outrage about dumbf*ck Don's constant idiotic remarks....



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Reply Anyone else noticed that without Senator Sanders, discussion of issues has all but disappeared? (Original post)
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 OP
CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2016 #1
Hortensis Aug 2016 #28
George II Aug 2016 #44
Hortensis Aug 2016 #46
George II Aug 2016 #47
Hortensis Aug 2016 #49
Squinch Aug 2016 #182
Hortensis Aug 2016 #200
lillypaddle Aug 2016 #134
Hortensis Aug 2016 #48
Poincare Aug 2016 #76
Hortensis Aug 2016 #78
saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #168
Hortensis Aug 2016 #171
R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2016 #95
KMOD Aug 2016 #103
R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2016 #110
Hortensis Aug 2016 #138
Squinch Aug 2016 #197
saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #169
Vattel Aug 2016 #2
stevil Aug 2016 #79
Vattel Aug 2016 #107
stevil Aug 2016 #115
Gaytheist212 Aug 2016 #142
Vattel Aug 2016 #172
Vattel Aug 2016 #173
Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #181
inwiththenew Aug 2016 #3
Bob Buttons Aug 2016 #75
Moonwalk Aug 2016 #164
madamesilverspurs Aug 2016 #4
Laurian Aug 2016 #5
gratuitous Aug 2016 #8
Squinch Aug 2016 #183
Auggie Aug 2016 #150
procon Aug 2016 #6
stopbush Aug 2016 #7
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2016 #15
Ghost Dog Aug 2016 #85
Hortensis Aug 2016 #98
Ghost Dog Aug 2016 #102
Hortensis Aug 2016 #105
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2016 #104
emulatorloo Aug 2016 #149
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #16
Johnyawl Aug 2016 #17
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #84
Johnyawl Aug 2016 #101
KMOD Aug 2016 #21
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #87
Hortensis Aug 2016 #83
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #89
Hortensis Aug 2016 #99
skepticscott Aug 2016 #22
Fla Dem Aug 2016 #116
msongs Aug 2016 #9
NurseJackie Aug 2016 #32
Jakes Progress Aug 2016 #59
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2016 #151
eleny Aug 2016 #10
misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #11
Pryderi Aug 2016 #12
Squinch Aug 2016 #184
eissa Aug 2016 #13
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2016 #14
Squinch Aug 2016 #185
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2016 #202
TomCADem Aug 2016 #18
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #90
ehrnst Aug 2016 #133
Squinch Aug 2016 #186
rufus dog Aug 2016 #19
Moonwalk Aug 2016 #53
rufus dog Aug 2016 #67
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KMOD Aug 2016 #20
FighttheFuture Aug 2016 #23
Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #135
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Blue_Adept Aug 2016 #24
Cryptoad Aug 2016 #25
Post removed Aug 2016 #26
KMOD Aug 2016 #29
cleanhippie Aug 2016 #30
KMOD Aug 2016 #34
misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #40
Hortensis Aug 2016 #51
xmas74 Aug 2016 #174
Hortensis Aug 2016 #175
xmas74 Aug 2016 #178
Hortensis Aug 2016 #179
Jakes Progress Aug 2016 #61
uponit7771 Aug 2016 #111
beachbumbob Aug 2016 #27
cwydro Aug 2016 #31
Andy823 Aug 2016 #65
cwydro Aug 2016 #81
Squinch Aug 2016 #189
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #92
Squinch Aug 2016 #190
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Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #33
George II Aug 2016 #35
DawgHouse Aug 2016 #42
uponit7771 Aug 2016 #112
DFW Aug 2016 #36
TacoD Aug 2016 #37
davidn3600 Aug 2016 #38
KMOD Aug 2016 #43
Bongo Prophet Aug 2016 #80
KMOD Aug 2016 #82
Hortensis Aug 2016 #74
Squinch Aug 2016 #191
oberliner Aug 2016 #39
DawgHouse Aug 2016 #41
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2016 #152
Squinch Aug 2016 #192
JoePhilly Aug 2016 #45
Grassy Knoll Aug 2016 #57
ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #64
JoePhilly Aug 2016 #68
ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #69
JoePhilly Aug 2016 #71
ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #162
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #93
Squinch Aug 2016 #193
Starry Messenger Aug 2016 #109
uponit7771 Aug 2016 #114
SunSeeker Aug 2016 #50
think Aug 2016 #52
MichiganVote Aug 2016 #54
alfredo Aug 2016 #55
etherealtruth Aug 2016 #56
Shandris Aug 2016 #58
Jakes Progress Aug 2016 #60
CBGLuthier Aug 2016 #62
ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #63
NCTraveler Aug 2016 #66
Hortensis Aug 2016 #88
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #97
GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #70
NotHardly Aug 2016 #72
riderinthestorm Aug 2016 #73
Doremus Aug 2016 #77
That Guy 888 Aug 2016 #86
Post removed Aug 2016 #91
grahamhgreen Aug 2016 #94
R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2016 #96
ornotna Aug 2016 #108
R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2016 #113
ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #163
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
Squinch Aug 2016 #194
LWolf Aug 2016 #106
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2016 #117
johnp3907 Aug 2016 #118
Vinca Aug 2016 #119
CentralMass Aug 2016 #120
betsuni Aug 2016 #121
Loki Aug 2016 #122
IronLionZion Aug 2016 #123
R B Garr Aug 2016 #124
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lapfog_1 Aug 2016 #126
workinclasszero Aug 2016 #127
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TwilightZone Aug 2016 #132
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Sunlei Aug 2016 #143
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66 dmhlt Aug 2016 #131
ehrnst Aug 2016 #136
MineralMan Aug 2016 #140
Squinch Aug 2016 #201
zentrum Aug 2016 #141
MADem Aug 2016 #145
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R B Garr Aug 2016 #155
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betsuni Aug 2016 #199
Lisa0825 Aug 2016 #153
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still_one Aug 2016 #157
egduj Aug 2016 #158
Gamecock Lefty Aug 2016 #159
still_one Aug 2016 #161
sheshe2 Aug 2016 #160
obamanut2012 Aug 2016 #165
Jim Lane Aug 2016 #167
alarimer Aug 2016 #170
WhiteTara Aug 2016 #176
B Calm Aug 2016 #177
Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #180

Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 03:51 PM

1. Now that you mention it, my dear grahamhgreen...

I had not noticed it.

But you're right. I would love to see more posts on those topics too.

But Trump is such an easy target.........and most of us would rather gossip.

It is a shame.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:01 PM

28. So talk issues. Or just listen to Hillary's speeches on many issues.

Both these posts, this whole thread!, are wasted opportunities by that standard.

Hillary addresses issues, usually local and regional, every single day. Perhaps you've only been listening to what the press chooses to show, the stuff you're complaining about in fact. You know how they do, but what are you listening to that you're missing all the discussion of issues? Everyone listening to her realizes very quickly why she's called a policy wonk.

As for DU, just pick one. How about discussing the issue of federal funding and organization to combat infectious diseases which know no state boundaries and will be spreading? Such as Zika? Hillary spoke on that just yesterday. The Republican House is holding up funding, of course. Should Democrats pass the House's bill with the restrictions on Planned Parenthood because containing Zika is the most important issue right now?

A bunch of issues there. How about states' rights versus federal power? The conservative desire to shrink government and federal taxation, thus federal assistance to states? God's role in plagues and the different party views on that? Climate change and spread of tropical diseases. Why the Republicans want to eliminate the National Institutes of Health? The role of hypocrisy in partisan politics? (Could partisanship survive without it?)

President Barack Obama has said he would veto the measure with the Planned Parenthood restrictions. But top Republicans have not relented either, and have increasingly put more pressure on Democrats to back off their blockade of the Zika measure, which has already passed the House.

“We would love for Sen. Kaine and others to end that filibuster and pass the bill, but it doesn’t sound like they’re prepared to do that,” said Don Stewart, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), referring to Clinton’s running mate, Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia. Apparently they believe an earmark for Planned Parenthood in the future is more important than preventing the threat of Zika now.”

Still, Clinton is demanding that Congress pass a separate, $1.1 billion Zika measure that the Senate cleared earlier this year with nearly 90 votes, or a new funding bill that was “free of politics,” according to a Clinton campaign aide.

The Zika virus is “one of the canaries in the mine,” Clinton said at the Miami health center, and she added that it’s a test in how the government and the public deals with an epidemic because “diseases are going to find their way here” given the rise in global travel and climate change.
During her tour of the clinic, Clinton asked doctors and others about who’s getting tested for Zika and what challenges they face in treating the fast-growing virus. She also noted that she has sent two campaign aides to Puerto Rico, another locale affected significantly by the Zika virus, for what she billed a “fact-finding mission.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/clinton-congress-reconvene-zika-226821#ixzz4Gxwd07gm



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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:32 PM

44. She's out discussing issues EVERY DAY. Sad that some who appear to be interested miss those talks.

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Response to George II (Reply #44)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:39 PM

46. Umhm. It's 100% our own choice to miss or focus on issues.

All Hillary's speeches are on line and available to all.

Of course not all will be interested in her plans to make it much easier for small business owners to meet differing tax requirements in different locations, but for some it's of compelling interest.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #46)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:42 PM

47. That's my point. If people aren't aware of the focus on issues, they don't want to be.

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Response to George II (Reply #47)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:44 PM

49. Oh, mine too, George. :)

I love having a policy wonk to vote for who's famous for boring audiences with nothing but talk of serious issues. But not everyone feels that way.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 10:43 PM

182. So here is the problem of an ebarrassment of riches: she has such detailed plans and policy

positions, and they have been posted and available for months. Since very early in the campaign.

So where other politicians are working things out and then putting them up for public review, they get press for that. She doesn't, because her stuff has been up and available for public review since early in the primary.

The fact that people mistake that preparedness and lack of drama for her not having policies or well publicized positions is very sad.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #182)

Sat Aug 13, 2016, 07:29 AM

200. Sad for sure, Squinch. The TV news does very little discussion

of issues for anyone, though. Both Trump's and Clinton's economic plan speeches were addressed mainly in terms of the criticisms each made of the other. Sad all right!

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 10:09 AM

134. Excellent post

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:42 PM

48. Graham, how about HRC's $275 B plan for new roads

and bridges, and the jobs that'll create? We could discuss that.

Here's an article that includes that and many other issues addressed in Hillary Clinton's 'Family First' economic plan explained. http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/10/news/economy/hillary-clinton-economy/

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #48)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:50 PM

76. You mean the Infrastructure bank plan

That privatizes public infrastructure by giving banks the option to go in halvsies with any generated proceeds. We used to issue bonds and pay for the stuff, wholly owned by the commons. Her plan is just another take on socialize the losses and privatize the gains. Besides the IEEE has put our modernization cost at 6 Trillion dollars. We have virtually zero percent for borrowing costs and we have to cry poor mouth to pay for it. Yeah plenty of money for the war machine, plenty for our wall street casinos, but bupkus for the people who have to live and die with outdated and decrepit infrastructure. Let me tell you something. Our insurance industry is starving for safe low risk investments aka government bonds. The losses are starting to catch up and if things keep going the way they are, your premiums for any risk management policy are going to skyrocket. Metlife just posted a 2 Billion dollar loss, because they couldn't hold out any longer. The deflationary economy is coming if something doesn't change with our moronic governance.

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Response to Poincare (Reply #76)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:53 PM

78. No, that's not what I mean. People who go to college

are taught to vet all sources used for papers for honesty and reliability. The reason for that had only a passing focus on not getting our papers handed back with failing grades. We were being taught the importance of using honest, unbiased sources.

But, on the issue of privatization, Hillary intends to put an end to the private, for-profit prison industry. Would you like to discuss that issue, Poincare?

Grahamhgreen? Want to discuss the issue of prison reform?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #48)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 03:37 PM

168. No President has

the authority to fund infrastructure. It is nice that Mrs. Clinton expresses her support. Without the US Congress and State legislators, nothing will come of it. "The answer my friends is blowing in the wind."

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Response to saidsimplesimon (Reply #168)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 07:40 PM

171. Too true to a large degree. Without presidential leadership,

it won't happen either. We're electing a president who intends to make it happen if she can, as well as democratic legislators who want to make it happen.

As opposed to someone who'll build a road if they make it yoooge and name it after him and legislators who are committed to lowering taxes for the wealthy and opening public lands to profiteering.

Don't forget to take friends out to vote and dinner.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:47 PM

95. Well, my dear Califirnia Peggy...

 

Great minds discuss ideas;
average minds discuss events;
small minds discuss people.

~Eleanor Roosevelt

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #95)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:07 PM

103. and what is your contribution to this discussion?

 

Many of us are discussing the issues.

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Response to KMOD (Reply #103)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 09:27 PM

110. My contribution is astute observation.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #110)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 10:21 AM

138. Not on ideas or events, however.

And the OP and initial response were complaining about the behavior, extremely inaccurately, I might add, of a person who is not Bernie Sanders. NOT discussing ideas or events.

Do YOU have an issue you would like to discuss?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #110)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:35 PM

197. You think so? I don't.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #95)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 03:39 PM

169. Eleanor is a woman

I admire. "small minds discuss people"

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 03:53 PM

2. I crave serious discussion about what to do about ISIL

 

(especially because I have a looming deadline for an article on that topic).

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Response to Vattel (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:56 PM

79. Honest question....

Do you have an opinion on what to do about ISIL?

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Response to stevil (Reply #79)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:42 PM

107. Only an ill-informed opinion that Obama's approach is roughly the correct one.

 

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Response to Vattel (Reply #107)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 10:31 PM

115. Agree

Total war would calamitous.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:09 AM

142. Well...

One of the things that has gotten lost in this election is how HRC and the Russian Foreign Minister signed a political solution to the civil war in Syria. It was Kofi Annan's plan and, because of Russia's relationship with Syria and our being onboard with it, there was international momentum to put it in place. Alas, Obama was caught on a hot mic talking to Putin making promises of easier political dealings after the 2012 election. Well, he started getting hammered over being too soft on Russia and Obama pulled the agreement Hillary signed. Now, we have what we have there: a total humanitarian crisis and worse instability in the region.

As for now, things with Russia have to change. Putin has dug himself in, he now wants to keep Assad whereas he was once willing to toss him aside because he views Syria as his toehold in the Middle East and it is a "stick it to the west" thing. There is no resolving ISIS without resolving the Syrian civil war. Assad can only stay in power with Putin's money and weapons. There needs to be a no-fly zone over Syria. First of all, it would allow civilians to get out of cities where they are sitting ducks. Secondly, it deprives Assad of air superiority which weakens him greatly. Would Russia tempt fate and see if NATO would shoot one of his planes out of the sky? I doubt it because he has no credible way of retaliating if the plane got shot down. What did he do when Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet? He did nothing because he certainly couldn't attack Turkey because it is a member of NATO. I don't even think he'd let it get to the point where HRC moved to put one in place because his cessation of bombing would be a humiliation too. He might be given the choice to save face, make himself look like a power player, and help broker a political solution to Assad before HRC moves ahead to implement a No Fly Zone. Without Putin, Assad has nothing.

As for Iraq, this is a situation of taking territory back bit by bit. Honestly, the problem with ISIS in Iraq isn't so much fighting them now because it is clear that when faced with actual force and conventional warfare, they break easily. The real problem in Iraq is what happens after ISIS. The people fighting on the same side to defeat ISIS have completely differing political agendas than ours. The Kurds are fighting them because they don't want to be exterminated and they will most certainly want their own state when this is over. That will not go down well. Almost everyone in the region, especially Turkey, will fight this tooth and nail. I happen to believe that the US must stand by them and broker a decommissioning of its rebel/terrorist groups on those grounds. A Kurdistan would be just and possibly stabilizing state.

While that is happening, there are political issues in Iraq which make it ripe for sectarian uprisings and militia groups. Sunni members of Iraqi society must be given and feel they have an equal shot and stake in the country. ISIS didn't just roll up and kidnap everyone. They were welcomed by a great extent by Sunnis in Iraq who were marginalized and abused by the Shi'a dominated government. How one resolves the religious blood feud surrounding these religious sects is beyond me. The hatred is based on genuine religious fanaticism, literal tribalism, and Iraq will continue to be a cite for a proxy war between Iran and the Sunni states.

Saudi Arabia continues to spread salafism via military attacks on Yemen (which we support), madrasahs, and financial incentives. As they see their influence with us wane and get insecure about any rehabilitation of our relationship with Iran, they may feel emboldened or angered to meddle in Iraq directly or proxy states in the Gulf. Then there's the fact that the Sunni states hate Iran and would be inclined to interfere via terrorism with another Shi'a dominated state. No, there won't be an ISIS style machine taking over cities, towns, and regions in Iraq, but sectarian violence will persist in some form.

As for ISIS attacks in the West, this is just ISIS lashing out because it no longer can put videos up of them rolling through cities in Iraq and Syria. They are losing badly in their so-called caliphate and are actively discouraging their followers from coming there. They are telling people who might be influenced by them that random attacks in the West are now more "blessed" than the previously more blessed mission to fighting in Syria and Iraq. They are essentially taking victories where they can get them by exploiting vulnerabilities in Europe, be it societal or intelligence.

Europe seems incapable of learning the lesson we learned after 9/11: intelligence sharing between agencies is vital to stopping attacks. Belgium's state intelligence apparatus are a complete joke and the state itself doesn't function well. But, Europol is a mess. There needs to be actual real time intelligence sharing between all member states of the EU. The EU functions as a single state in many ways, but not in intelligence sharing. If they had streamlined intelligence sharing not hampered by national borders, a few of the deadlier attacks could have been disrupted. This is a major problem. And, they don't seem to understand that certain prison populations need to be segregated. Almost all of the European nationals who've been ISIS inspired attackers have been involved in petty crime and radicalized in jail only to recruit others. Of course there is the abject failure of European states to integrate the second generation immigrants of people from former colonies or colonized states. I know Europeans like to deny they have a race problem, but they do. The issue on integration of second generation immigrants and opening up opportunities is an issue I'm not prepared to address.

These are a few ideas and issues surrounding ISIS and the Middle East. I am sure Donald Trump is equipped to know, understand, and tackle.

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #142)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 06:14 AM

172. Thanks for the post of the month in terms of serious discussion.

 

Puzzled by the last sentence though. Were you being sarcastic?

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Response to Gaytheist212 (Reply #142)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 06:48 AM

173. I agree about the Kurds.

 

We have to draw a line there and be willing to do whatever is necessary and just to defend them. I believe that they have a right to secede, and I hope they do so.

It is tempting to think that Biden's old three-state solution to Iraq is the only feasible way to address Iraq's problems. But whereas an independent Kurdistan seems doable, I have no idea how an independent Sunni state could be brokered. If Sunnis and Shi'a in Iraq must live together under a single government, maybe a new constitution is in order, one that would be less majority-rule because it would require more power-sharing between the two groups. As long as you have majority rule and the majority is Shi'a, it is hard to see how Sunnis won't end up being on the losing end of the stick.

As for Syria, I don't see how getting rid of Assad helps anything. Stability and gradual movement towards reform seems to me to be a better approach, but I welcome being schooled on this point.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 06:40 PM

181. The truth is there is very little we can do.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 03:56 PM

3. Dicussion of anything other than Trump's latest comments

Have all but disappeared.

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Response to inwiththenew (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:47 PM

75. In the news? I totally agree.

In the news, for sure, that's the case. But as long as the news we're consuming is funded by ads, and as long as ad revenue is affected by number of views, we'll wind up having ratings-driven reporting. One reason I like the subscription model for news, since it shifts the focus away from clickbait and toward quality content. (Sometimes.)

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Response to inwiththenew (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 02:20 PM

164. I'm confused. How serious a problem is this? I mean, really....

...I not trying to be flippant here, but I just don't understand the implied alarm or discomfort with what seems to me to be a reasonable thing. We have to win this election. And so we have to pay attention, for now and the next 90 days, to what Trump is doing and saying. He IS the republican candidate. And we did the same when Obama was up against McCain and then Romney. I didn't see anyone fretting that we weren't discussing issues back then--not when we were all shocked by Romney's "percent" remark.

So, why does this focus on the republican candidate and what he's saying (and what he would likely do if elected) lead you to the assumption that we aren't discussing issues, and/or will not discuss issues 90 days from now? Why do you believe without Bernie Sanders we've somehow lost our way and can't return to discussing issues until and unless he comes back?

I want to understand. Please explain.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:03 PM

4. Actually, no.

If that were the case, I wouldn't be having the vigorous discussions I'm enjoying.



.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:04 PM

5. Hillary talks about issues everyday! Trump and the media do not.

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Response to Laurian (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:08 PM

8. Well, today in Iowa she was talking about . . .

According to the synopsis at Daily Kos, Clinton talked about jobs, boosting small businesses, raising the minimum wage, the salutary effects of her economic proposals, and how as a nation we're stronger together.

So yeah, nothing about issues at all. At least, that's what we'll get from any reports the popular media may deign to file about her appearance.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 10:48 PM

183. But it wasn't out of BS's mouth, so our friend graham didn't hear it.

Hillary's voice is too high for some people to hear.

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Response to Laurian (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:40 AM

150. ^^^THIS^^^

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:06 PM

6. What is the correlation with Sanders you're referring to?

Do you want more discussions about Sanders, or are you saying Sanders was the motivation for most discussions on DU, or it's something altogether different? I'm stumped; this thread could have opened the dialog you pine for, but instead, you're just as focused on Trump as everyone else, which is certainly appropriate given today's news.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:06 PM

7. What needs to be discussed?

The platform is written, the conventions are over. The Ds spent 4 days laying out their platform and giving people a reason to vote for them. Sanders had unprecedented input into the platform. Hillary, Tim and their surrogates are on the hustings delivering the message of the platform to diverse groups of voters.

DU is behind our nominee and the platform. There is other work to be done that's more important than reaffirming what we've already affirmed. That work is centered on solidifying and expanding the base of people who will vote for Ds in the fall.

We're in the silly season that always precedes the debates. The debates usually center on issues (not a guarantee this year). That's the next opportunity for the issues to be discussed.

It has nothing to do with Sanders being out of the limelight. It's what happens every election cycle.

Just because you're unaware of what's going on doesn't mean it isn't happening.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:29 PM

15. Thanks for that dose of reality. As you said, the Dems spent FOUR days "discussing" the issues. nt

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:36 PM

85. The 'platform', a stepping-stone, gets jettisoned,

rest assured, once election consumated. It's not a problem.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #85)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:57 PM

98. Sounds like you assume it's jettisoned already, Ghost Dog.

Oh, I see you're from the Canary Islands. What issues are you involved in there, aside from climate crises, of course?

Have you checked the party platform against our nominee's own issues statements, btw? I haven't, but I know there's tremendous overlap.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #98)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:07 PM

102. Vital issues.

My point is that politicians, everywhere, tend to proceed as follows:

1. Elections! Say/ do whatever it takes to obtain power;
2. Now I'm in power. Completely different ballgame...

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #102)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:21 PM

105. Reality is that almost always politicians can

only hope to accomplish part of what they want. Sometimes a very small part. Plus, they usually can't be at all sure ahead of time just what is going to be possible or to what degree and what's going to turn out to require far too much sacrifice of other goals.

Will we get control of the Senate? Or only a majority. Or not even that? How many House seats will we gain, and how will the Republican half's shrinkage affect their willingness to cooperate in order to get what they want? What new leaders and power blocs will emerge in and out of government? How about all the state offices that would come into play for certain goals? Or not? How about future judicial decisions that will make all the difference to some issues?

How about the effect of natural disasters on each possible goal? Terrorist acts? International economic crises?

These are not things we knew while we were choosing our candidate and making up our platform.

Nevertheless, taking a stand and putting all the desired and possibly achievable goals on the table not only has value in itself by saying this is who we are and what we want for our nation, but it is usually a very helpful and often just plain necessary step if they are to be pursued.

Oh, and let's not forget 2018, when half the people claiming to be concerned now and the facile cynics may not bother to vote and we'll be at risk of losing everything we might have gained in this election. That little reality will have a profound effect on what our political capital is expended on and when.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #85)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:11 PM

104. I have no idea what you're talking about?

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #85)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:39 AM

149. Thank you, Miss Cleo. How much do I owe you?

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Response to stopbush (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:30 PM

16. Has the legislation been written, sponsored, or introduced for loweringg the Medicare age?

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:38 PM

17. of course not, the legislature is not in session at the moment


plus the republicans still hold the majority, so it wouldn't do any good anyway

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Response to Johnyawl (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:33 PM

84. Cmon, wouldn't take more than a day...

 

Be it resolved the Medicare eligibility age is hereby reduced to 55.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #84)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:02 PM

101. Call up Ryan and McConnell and tell them that.


They're in charge of the legislature at the moment.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:47 PM

21. she sponsored it in 2001

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/senate-bill/623/cosponsors

and remains in favor of it. She will get this done.

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Response to KMOD (Reply #21)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:37 PM

87. Allows buy in at 62. But this is great! Will show it around. Would love to have updated version.

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:30 PM

83. Hillary HAS committed to lowering the Medicare age

for certain groups. As a candidate, of course. She is not currently a legislator.

Would you like to discuss that, Grahamhgreen, or read Hillary's thoughts on it? Her proposal is called "Medicare for More." There are plenty of issues in that one topic alone. Nothing's free, after all, but there is a large group between 50 and 65 who are doing too well to qualify for Medicaid but not well enough to afford insurance without an employer contribution.



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Response to Hortensis (Reply #83)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:38 PM

89. Absolutely! The link above is very good!

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #89)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:00 PM

99. Bernie's plan was called "Medicare for All," and

I still want to work toward that. Talk of Joe Lieberman today reminded me that his opposition was THE one crucial vote that kept us from taking healthcare reform in that direction. He'd agreed to a public option, an expansion of Medicare, and a plan had already been developed for that, and then he changed his mind.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:49 PM

22. And, quite frankly

 

The tighter we can tie the Trump millstone around the necks of the Republican party, the better chance we have to re-take at least one chamber of Congress, and actually see some of the Democratic platform accomplished. We can talk issues until we're blue in the face between now and November, but if the GOP holds the House and Senate, it'll just be wasted breath, since they will stonewall any agenda of a Clinton White House.

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 11:19 PM

116. Yes, I don't understand why more people don't understand that dynamic.

Without congressional support; senate and house, it will be very difficult to pass major legislation. I'm hoping the Trump shipwreck will move some RWer's to compromise more than they have done for the past 8 years.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:10 PM

9. anyone else notice that Senator Sanders HIMSELF has "all but disappeared" nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:08 PM

32. Now that you mention it ...

... that's right. But, speaking from experience, whenever you buy a new house, that always takes up a lot of time.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #32)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:20 PM

59. Is he pulling a "Clean Gene" act?

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Response to msongs (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:55 AM

151. He's buying his $600,000 house; can't be too focused on issues right now.

 

Again, though, I don't understand this thread.

Just because the OP doesn't see HRC on the T.V. doesn't mean that she's not discussing issues.

This thread is ridiculous.

And the primaries are OVER! Looks like some people still can't get over it.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:10 PM

10. I see your point but Trump's lunacy would still prevail in the news

Bernie would be valiant in trying to keep things on track. But he'd be fighting off "commie" smearing from now until election day. Trump would find a new high gear.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:13 PM

11. Some have borrowed her platform & some have called for her murder.

But the obvious common thing they have all done is to censor her message.

Because Hillary Clinton's 2016 message knocks all the loser candidates outta the ball park.

None hold a candle to her strength, her intellect, her experience nor her compassion.

Without slandering her character they have nothing.
Without censoring her message they would never have lasted as long as they did.

Which is why she abandoned the Press and big rallies and simply took her campaign directly to the people who waited to hear from this bright & accomplished woman.

And it worked beautifully.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:21 PM

12. Be careful! This could be construed as bashing a democrat and will be deleted. n/t

 

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Response to Pryderi (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 10:51 PM

184. You poor dear.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:25 PM

13. It's hard to stick to the issues when one candidate

continues to make one bizarre move after another. Our media would rather cover the continuous garbage coming out of his mouth, than anything relevant the Clinton campaign is doing.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:27 PM

14. If it's really true that you want to actually hear what the candidate is saying, you certainly.....

have other options. DU is a hodge-podge of discussions. People post direct links to Hillary's rallies all the time, and they usually drop like a stone. So, if discussion is your true intent, there's no excuse for not being informed. And on that subject, I don't remember DU being a bastion of real discussion during the primaries either. It was a contest, just like it is now.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 10:54 PM

185. Also, Hillary's policy positions and plans have been available to the public for the better

part of a year. And they are detailed and comprehensive.

If there is something the poster wanted to discuss, I wonder why he didn't discuss it.

This crediting Sanders for everything is obnoxious and dumb.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #185)

Sat Aug 13, 2016, 06:22 PM

202. "This crediting Sanders for everything is obnoxious and dumb."

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:38 PM

18. False Premise. With Sanders, Media Focused on the Math

No difference. Hillary gave a speech about her economic proposals today, but all the focus is on Trump's request that some 2nd Amendment supporter take her out.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:40 PM

90. Is there a link to that speech? I'll definitely Rec anything with policy positions, thanks!

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #90)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 09:59 AM

133. Here is a link to all her speeches - updated daily

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #90)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 10:56 PM

186. Why don't you start a thread on that speech, since you want to discuss policy?

Or does it not count if you haven't heard it in some kind of BS context?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:38 PM

19. And the powers that be win again

 

At the beginning of the year I posted why I supported Sanders. He has a unique ability to always turn the discussion back to the issues at hand. Most of us go for the tit for tat! With Trump the media can now just cover the circus and the he said/she said.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511279878

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:55 PM

53. I'm confused. Are you saying that the focus here on Trump rather than issues...

...wouldn't be happening if Sanders was the Dem candidate? Cause I really, really, REALLY don't believe for one second that the situation would be any different. With Trump as the other presidential candidate, Sanders wouldn't fuel any more discussion about issues in the media, or any more than what there is here than Hillary. It's pretty hard to discuss such issues when Trump keeps saying outrageous things that just can't be ignored.

If you meant, on the other hand, that you wish Sanders was still around making policy remarks contrary to those of Hillary that we could discuss here...well, I'd kinda sorta rather everyone would keep focused on winning the election first. If we can get through this, swear in Hillary and bid farewell to Trump, then, believe me, discussion of the issues will be back quick smart. No one has ever gone easy on Hillary, and I'm quite sure that, during her swearing in, there will be posts galore here criticizing her choice of pastor (like with Obama, remember?), her speech, cabinet choices, etc. And then there will be even more discussions about her first 100 days and what she'd said she'd get done, but failed to get done and what she should have gotten done...

Just think of us on break like Congress for the moment. We'll get back to our old tit-for-tat on the issues soon enough.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #53)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:33 PM

67. I think the media is always looking for the diversion

 

And no matter who was running, Trump would get the attention.

Does the media do it on purpose or do Americans have such short attentions spans that they want to be entertained. I think a bit of both, but it is damn surely destructive.

At this point I think the objective needs to switch to taking out as many Republicans as possible so Hillary has a Dem Senate and a potentially a more sane House. Although I believe the pubs will not learn and continue to obstruct.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #67)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:02 PM

100. I don't disagree that it's destructive, but let's be real here...

...if you got back to Jefferson vs. Adams, and read what one side said to the other in the newspapers (through surrogates, as it was considered uncouth for those running to attack each other personally), you'll find the back-and-forth letters remarkably like internet trolling--including being under pseudonyms! And the newspaper essays by one side or the other remarkably like some of the worst, most bias, most vile pundits we have today. Hannity's a cupcake compared to some of the late 18th, early 19th century commentators.

It was vicious, mean, personal, brutal. And barely at all on the issues vs. "entertaining." Of course, this was a period where fist-fights and, notably, duels weren't uncommon in the congress. Lincoln vs. Douglas debates were watched by picnickers as entertainment. Prior to television, this was drama. So, again, while I agree that the media, for it's first four decades (1960-2000 when Faux news influenced the Gore-Bush election) took elections very seriously and not as mere entertainment...and while I'll totally agree that being entertainment oriented is destructive....We can't really say, I think, that this is all that surprising. I think, alas, taking it seriously and focusing on the issues rather than the entertainment value was actually unique. Viewing it as entertainment seems to have been the norm from the get-go of our nation. We took a break for about thirty years, and have now gone back to what was much more common in the first 200 years of our nationhood.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 10:58 PM

187. So you want to focus on the issues at hand, but your post is about someone who isn't even

in the race?

Kay.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:40 PM

20. Hillary has been fighting to reduce the medicare age to 55

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:55 PM

23. Well... Trump seems to be discussing them! I hope Hillary is taking notice. That's the

 

real danger. He could con enough dupes to vote for him on Bernie's messages!

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Response to FighttheFuture (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 10:10 AM

135. Trump talks about issues?

 

What bizzaro world do you live in? Hillary has spoken about issues non stop. Trump just insults and denigrates.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #135)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:30 AM

144. I know its hard to believe, but he does occasionally hit on things like free-trade, NAFTA, etc. that

 

people do remember. Look it up. I will not waste my time on researching Trump. I just have a good memory and know what I saw in the daily spraying of Agent Orange.

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Response to FighttheFuture (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:41 PM

198. That's very concerning. You should be concerned about that for us.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #198)

Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:04 AM

203. I am. You should be as well. Don't be a typical lazy ignorant voter that exist om all sides.

 

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Response to FighttheFuture (Reply #203)

Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:07 AM

204. You shouldn't lecture people you know nothing about on subjects you know nothing about.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #204)

Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:11 AM

205. Just as you shouldn't dismiss legitimate concerns in such a sarcastic manner from people you

 

know nothing about.

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Response to FighttheFuture (Reply #205)

Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:12 AM

206. When I see legitimate concerns, I don't dismiss them.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #206)

Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:24 AM

207. So you are saying that "free-trade"--Trade agreements as Treaties and all that goes with it,

 

jobs offshoring, hollowing out of the middle class, etc. are not legitimate concerns?

I stand my be previous statement.

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Response to FighttheFuture (Reply #207)

Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:33 AM

208. My, my. What a big straw man you built for yourself there!

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Response to Squinch (Reply #208)

Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:37 AM

209. Only in your mind.

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:55 PM

24. August is all about the drama

Post convention time and the lead-up to debates are pretty much the getting to know you period where the networks try to find drama to create interest. Trump is doing that all by himself.

What are the candidates doing, is the better question. As you can see, they're all hitting the campaign trail and going to meet various groups, rallies, and events, in order to present their case to people directly.

THAT'S where the action is.

If you're waiting for issues to be discussed on TV news, well, you're about 30+ years too late for that.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 04:58 PM

25. When ur

opponent is self destructing like Hillary's opponent is,,,,, stand back watch with the rest of the world. Now is not the time for policy discussion.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:01 PM

29. Hillary has been running solely on issues.

 

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Response to KMOD (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:02 PM

30. Uhm, if you say so.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #30)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:14 PM

34. I like smilies, too

 

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #30)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:24 PM

40. Are you really interested? She's been speaking on issues all along.

Here. This site has a whole long list of speeches she's given on all her issues.

https://still4hill.com/
If you scroll to the bottom there are her speeches, on all her issues.

And her well written platform is all there at her website.


There's no reason for anyone to question where she stands. Unless they really aren't interested in the first place.

She had her platform in place when she entered the race.
Not just the what, but the how to get it accomplished.

I can't believe, in a Presidential election people rely on social media & tv news to make their decision for them.
The millions of supporters of her base know where she stands on issues. They took the time to find out.



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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #30)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:52 PM

51. I also say so. Hillary's a notorious policy wonk

whose normal mode for years has been talking nothing but issues, problems, possible fixes -- instead of entertaining audiences with trivia. She loves that stuff. You would know that if you knew even a little bit more about her than you apparently do.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #51)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 10:42 AM

174. This is exactly why I've always liked her.

I hate just talk. I prefer a policy wink because I want someone who takes their time, studies the issue from all sides and then develops an evenhanded plan.

It's not a sexy approach but it's what an adult does. The nerd in me, the little girl whom always got far too caught up in every detail, loves what others find boring about her. I don't agree with everything she says and does but I appreciate her thoroughness.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #174)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 05:25 PM

175. Me too, 100%. Despite the criticism some are trying to make stick,

she actually spent years running on and on with the policy discussions she loves and resisting pepping up her speeches with more "politician-speak." She was still boring gatherings with too much substance when she ran for the senate in NY.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #175)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 05:42 PM

178. I like being bored, just a bit,

if the boring bits are stock full of details about the issue, what the plan is, why it needs implemented and how to do so. It's smart, nerdy girl, sit in front of the teacher at its best and I love it.

I don't want talk-I want action. I don't want half assed action, either. I want well thought out preparations that include every contingency available. She does just that. I love it.


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Response to xmas74 (Reply #178)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 05:50 PM

179. Yes. She gave a talk at Stanford about counterterrorism

a few months ago, and she's very impressive talking to knowledgeable people about serious topics, a whole different level from the typical campaign speech.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #30)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:23 PM

61. Uhm, if you actually listened to the candidate.

But what fun is that?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #30)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 09:29 PM

111. Yeah, to those who don't hate her to the point of not paying a bit of attention you can see she's...

... talking about the issues

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:00 PM

27. Issues are secondary ......stop trump is primary....

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:02 PM

31. So why not post an OP about issues?

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Response to cwydro (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:30 PM

65. I was wondering the same thing

It's not that hard to start a thread on any issue one wants to discuss.

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #65)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:14 PM

81. True dat.

Maybe just easier to start one asking why OTHERS don't do so lol.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #81)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:04 PM

189. Those pesky others!

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Response to cwydro (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:43 PM

92. That's why I included the Medicare thing. Opting in at 55, and providing a public option are huge!

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #92)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:05 PM

190. That's your policy discussion?

You'd probably be able to talk about it much more cogently if you watched some of Hillary's policy speeches, or read some of her very detailed plans and policy positions which have been available to you for the better part of a year.

Maybe if we got Sanders to read them aloud to you you'd be able to acknowledge them?

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Response to cwydro (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:02 PM

188. Because the real motive behind this call for "discussion of the issues" was to push for

support for someone who is not even in the race.

Kind of funny when you think of it.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:08 PM

33. The media loves the Trump slow motion train wreck for higher ratings than issues. . . . nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:19 PM

35. If you don't think Clinton is discussing issues you aren't watching/reading the same news others are

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Response to George II (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:29 PM

42. Exactly.

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Response to George II (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 09:30 PM

112. +1

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:19 PM

36. No, I noticed no such thing

Maybe some of the media is focusing on Trump because it's so easy. But after all, we haven't stopped thinking about issues, have we? And who said that we are "without Sanders?" He didn't shrivel up disappear, he just joined the effort to defeat Trump when he didn't win the nomination--nothing other than what Hillary did in 2008.

I don't recall him saying "never mind."

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:22 PM

37. That the media prefers to focus on Trump's dumbfuckery

rather than the issues is not in dispute. That Sanders has anything to do with it is very much so.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:24 PM

38. That train left a LONG TIME AGO

 

This election isn't about the issues.

Very few people are actually voting FOR someone.....they are voting AGAINST someone.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:31 PM

43. I, and millions of others are voting

 

for Hillary Clinton! And I'm very excited about doing so.

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Response to KMOD (Reply #43)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:57 PM

80. I will also be voting with great satisfaction FOR Hillary, FOR progress.

I love how the OP sets a great example of "discussing the issues" all through this thread.
Be the example you want to see, right?

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Response to Bongo Prophet (Reply #80)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:27 PM

82. Indeed.

 

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:46 PM

74. 100% WRONG. For millions it's ALL about issues.

Last edited Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:33 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm one of them. I don't do exciting movements or follow leaders. I turn on to issues and competence in achieving them and am delighted to have someone to vote for who's spent years studying our problems and developing possible solutions because that's what she loves and what she does best.

If you're not easily bored by issues, you might listen to one of her talks to educated audiences. She can speak for hours at different levels depending on her audience.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #38)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:09 PM

191. Nope.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:24 PM

39. No, it's exactly the same as when Sanders was in the race, issues-wise

 

The difference now is that there is less back and forth between Sanders and Clinton supporters attacking each other.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:28 PM

41. No, 45 talks about issues all the time.

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Response to DawgHouse (Reply #41)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:58 AM

152. I see what you did there! ;)

 

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Response to DawgHouse (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:11 PM

192. Heh heh

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:32 PM

45. I see a lot fewer "Hillary's gonna get indicted" threads.

Which drowned out almost everything else for 4 months.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #45)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:13 PM

57. Amen

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #45)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:29 PM

64. Well there does remain a...miasma...of "concern"

All too frequently.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #64)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:33 PM

68. Yea ... but most of those are pretty weak and transparent.

I'm just happy to notice that many fake Bernie supporters (and they were fake) have moved on to infest other sites.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #68)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:39 PM

69. Me too

Looked at that way, it's just good news all around.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #69)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:41 PM

71. Its nice to have DU supporting Democrats again.

TRump and the GOP are incredibly dangerous.

And we now have a chance to break the GOP into pieces ... take the Senate ... make critical gains in the House ... and that should be everyone's focus.

That's the only way we can ever enact the policies we all want.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #71)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 01:29 PM

162. So true

In my state of Washington, we are hoping for a good Dem showing. However, I was just on the Olympic peninsula and saw my first (large) Trump signs, plus support for various republicans. Washington state is very purple in actuality--we can never take the hope of a Democratic congress for granted

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #45)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:45 PM

93. Thank god. No way Washington will indict Clinton. Last time I saw Christie and Hillary,

 

they were hugging

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #93)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:12 PM

193. How are those two facts related? Is that you talking about issues?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #45)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:47 PM

109. That and "Just you wait until CA!!11"

I saved a few in my bookmarks, which I cherish like old violets.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #45)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 09:30 PM

114. +1

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:49 PM

50. No. Just less flame fests. And I don't miss that shit.

But if you want to talk about issues, why don't you just post a thread about an issue?


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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:55 PM

52. So many issues discussed in this thread alone...

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:57 PM

54. Without the primary, I see a lot less arguing and much more discussion on DU.

 

Maybe you go to another site and see something different. Nothing stopping you from bringing something up.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 05:57 PM

55. It takes at least two to have a conversation.

She talks issues on the stump.

Trump is self destructing, and Hillary is doing nothing to distracting him from that task.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:10 PM

56. No

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:17 PM

58. As those of us familiar with Warhammer and Eldrad of Ulthwe like to say...

 

"Just as planned."

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:22 PM

60. Churn, churn, churn.

Or you could actually listen to the candidate. You know, besides on the sound bite express.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:25 PM

62. Now now, there have been plenty of posts about the important issue of BS buying a new vacation home

brought to you from the "we will decide when we have kicked him enough" crowd.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:28 PM

63. No.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:32 PM

66. Issue threads sink like a rock.

 

Most did during the primary as well. I can point you to numerous ops dealing with nothing but issues and you will find very few comments. That isn't something new or Sanders related as you claim.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512353651

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #66)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:37 PM

88. Lots of education issues addressed. Thanks, NCtraveler.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #66)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:48 PM

97. OMG. 3 recs. We can do better, surely.

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:41 PM

70. Talking issues right now

Would like reading a good book while a freight train crashes outside your kitchen window.

A time for everything. But what we are seeing now is unprecedented and will be discussed 100 years from now.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:43 PM

72. A Trump noise problem not a Sanders or Hillary problem... in the media

It is hard to get a word in edgewise on the media from the Hillary campaign for the simple reason the noise box that is Trump sucks all the air and space out of the news cycle. Maybe what you'd love to do is post media notes about the coverage of her campaign and what it is doing in the local areas where she is presenting... that would be useful rather than backhanded bashing.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:44 PM

73. Issues here? No. GD16 has rarely discussed issues. nt

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:51 PM

77. I second that motion but we may as well hold our breath. nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:37 PM

86. I believe this post is about DU, not the media.

 

When I clicked on this link there were about 104 posts on the home tab of Democratic Underground.

40 are about trump! That includes 4 out of the 5 posts highlighted in TRENDING NOW, 4 out of the 5 post under GREATEST THREADS concern drumpf. Of the 10 posts under THE LEFT COLUMN, 9 concern drumpf and one concerns the dying gop(The Tim Kaine story is about a letter from a lifelong republican and his concern about…. trump).

3… just 3 are about Nominee Clinton!

Keep in mind that 104 includes all posts, including those under COOL, GREAT READS, PLACES, that don’t necessarily touch on the current election.

While trump is a moron, that doesn't mean that the republicans are going to just lose the House and Senate because of it. I think if anything they're going to cheat more than usual. How about the Clinton's Fifty State Strategy? I see some people talking about GOTV within threads concerning the election, but no threads concerning what DU'ers can do. Anything about republican/tea baggers planning to disrupt polls while "guarding against voter fraud"? Complacency towards republicans will lessen the chances of victory(which do look good if you're a Democrat) and may reduce the margin of victory.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #91)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:46 PM

94. Just hoping this will lead to more policy posts....

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #94)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 07:47 PM

96. Ain't gonna happen.

 


Great minds discuss ideas;
average minds discuss events;
small minds discuss people.

~Eleanor Roosevelt

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #96)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:44 PM

108. Well, that explains

the - Have you seen the loons over at JPR posts.

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Response to ornotna (Reply #108)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 09:30 PM

113. One not need to go off their own lake

 


to see the loons in the next one.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #113)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 01:40 PM

163. So very, very true.

*sigh*

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #163)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:15 PM

194. .

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 08:28 PM

106. As expected. nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Aug 10, 2016, 11:21 PM

117. Lol. No, I haven't noticed such things but given that Donald trump

 

Is having a national meltdown people are rightfully worried about the fate of the nation and less about specific policy.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 07:29 AM

118. Nope.

Just the opposite.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 07:31 AM

119. We have regressed into the Batshit Crazy vs. Emails portion of the election season.

I miss Bernie.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 07:34 AM

120. Yes.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 07:35 AM

121. No.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 07:52 AM

122. No.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 07:58 AM

123. What do you think they speak about on the campaign stops and town halls?

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/

It's on C-SPAN and youtube if you want to watch Hillary and Tim discuss issues like health care and jobs every day.

Avoid Trump's videos.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 08:11 AM

124. No. But maybe it feels that way to some because the main "issue" was

Hillary hating, and now we're focused on the real enemy.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 08:15 AM

125. It's hard to talk issues when there's a clown on stage lighting his farts on fire & smearing poop on

The walls.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 08:27 AM

126. There is only ONE issue now

the overwhelming disqualification for high office ( or any office ) of one demagogue, Donald Trump.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 08:32 AM

127. When the nazis are kicking down your door

 

it tends to take up most your attention.


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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 08:33 AM

128. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/ <- yes, 'issues' detail seem to be missing from this link

The issues including 'healthcare' were there last week. ?

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #128)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 09:48 AM

132. It's still there. Click on "Health"

Then "Healthcare"

Not sure what you're seeing, but it's very easy to find.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #132)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 10:17 AM

137. Thanks, when I click the word 'issues' on the website, no detail of issues shows anymore

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/

Above is the main page of her website. main page was updated/changed a couple times this past week.

Along the top menu-bar is the link word "issues", that link doesn't go to any detail list of issues anymore for me.

perhaps the website works differently for cellphones or the list of 'issue details' is in a different place.

IMO the top menu bar should have the detail list of the main 'issues' very easy to find. perhaps you can find the "55 healthcare detail" and post it here for the OP.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #137)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 10:45 AM

139. "Issues" just takes one to the main issues page.

The links for the issue categories are below the picture on that page: All Issues, Economy and Jobs, Education, etc.

Click on any category and you should get sub-categories.

Click on a sub-category and you should get details.

For example, if you click on Health and then Healthcare, you should get this page:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/

Edit: the item about people over 55 being able to buy into Medicare is in the first bullet point on that page.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #139)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:19 AM

143. Thanks, the top menu link issues- https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

"The links for the issue categories are below the picture on that page: All Issues, Economy and Jobs, Education, etc."

I get the main picture, with no "issue categories" below the picture.

But thanks for the link, your link worked fine. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/

Here is the "over 55" info for the OP

Defend and expand the Affordable Care Act, which covers 20 million people. Hillary will stand up to Republican-led attacks on this landmark law—and build on its success to bring the promise of affordable health care to more people and make a “public option” possible. She will also support letting people over 55 years old buy into Medicare.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 08:35 AM

129. It's Hillary's fault that the Corporate Media

 

is in love with Donald Trump and won't cover her speeches?

Oh, I see.

THE PRIMARIES ARE OVER!!!!!!

Trashing this stupid thread!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 09:08 AM

130. Nope. What I noticed is detailed policy speeches by Clinton being overshadowed by the latest...

...Trump outrage. Trump's strategy worked during the primaries, but I believe it is working against him now. Don't worry, as so long as we get out the vote, Trump is just a (very nasty) footnote in our country's history. I don't know why you brought Sanders into this. If he had won the primary he'd be dealing with the same thing. But let's stop re-hashing that, OK?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 09:34 AM

131. No

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 10:49 AM

140. Anyone can bring up issues in an original post.

If that's the discussion you want, I suggest that you post some issues-related OPs. Right now, we're working on lowering Donald Trump's poll numbers, though. Electing Hillary Clinton in November is the goal.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #140)

Sat Aug 13, 2016, 07:47 AM

201. Yes. It's very odd, isn't it? If he wanted to discuss issues, why does't he discuss issues?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 10:52 AM

141. Absolutely have.

It's a marked difference. Glad you said it.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:31 AM

145. What does that even mean? I guess you haven't watched any of HRC's speeches, lately?

The primary is over--the bashing should stop, and this thread is a thinly-veiled bash.

We are in General Election mode, and the contest is against an orange moron named Trump.

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Response to MADem (Reply #145)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:33 AM

147. It means "all DU'ers are stupid low information voters except fo me"



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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #147)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:36 AM

148. Mmmm hmmm! nt

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #147)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:19 PM

195. Exactly! Also: "YOU PEOPLE never talk about important issues! To show how bad that is, I'll talk

about someone who hasn't been in the race for months! And then I'll throw out the name of an issue without any discussion of it!"

Such crap...

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Response to MADem (Reply #145)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 12:17 PM

155. +1. Agreed, and "thinly-veiled" is being kind.

It's a pretty blatant bash, but we can't notice the obvious or posts get removed.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #155)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 02:44 PM

166. HRC just NOW gave a wonderful speech where she talked about increasing wages

and creating jobs, among other "issues" at a rally that the cable news covered -- but I guess it's easier to criticize than to listen... or something!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 11:31 AM

146. No. But thanks for stirring the pot.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #146)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 12:15 PM

154. +1, I wonder if I started a thread entitled, "Isn't it great Bernie Sanders is gone

so we can concentrate on real issues instead of personal smears masquerading as "issues" -- I wonder how long that thread would last. Hmmm.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #154)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 11:21 PM

196. Very good question.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #154)

Sat Aug 13, 2016, 12:39 AM

199. It would be like fireworks: a brief, beautiful burst of light, then nothing.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 12:14 PM

153. The primaries are over. nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 12:21 PM

156. I've noticed fewer posts linking to HA Goodman. (That's good, right?)

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 12:22 PM

157. Is this an OP to bring up a false narritive? Almost everyday there is posts here linking

Last edited Thu Aug 11, 2016, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary's speeches and events which discuss the issues you want to engage

Pick up any paper

Today she will present her economic plan, she has also been talking about reforming student debt, and tuition free college, and a multitude of issues discussed schussed during the primary

Sorry but this is an empty thread, 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'

Apologizes to Will Shakespeare

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 12:44 PM

158. Definitely noticeable.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 01:07 PM

159. I already know where Hillary stands on the issues.

That's why I voted for her in the primaries!

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Response to Gamecock Lefty (Reply #159)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 01:24 PM

161. She is giving a major economic speech today, which will include tuition free college, et. I wonder

if those that seem to feel that there is no discussion of the issues during the primary are even paying attention to what happens everyday on the campaign trail, and what is being talked about

In other words, last time I looked DU member can bring up any topic for discussion.



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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 01:23 PM

160. No.

And the Primary is over!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 02:24 PM

165. We don't need anything to divide the HRC and BS primary supporters

True supporters of BS are endorsing Hillary, and true HRC supporters welcome Bernie supporters.

We are all on the same side, and OPs like this do not help.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 03:21 PM

167. The media coverage is shaped by the nature of the contest they're covering.

 

In the primaries, Sanders made a conscious decision not to go after Clinton's "damn emails" or any of the other personal attacks that might have gained votes. Instead, he focused on their ideological differences. Clinton, expecting to win and not wanting to alienate the Sanders supporters any more than necessary, similarly did little to attack Sanders personally. (Of course, she had less material in the first place. Some of her supporters said Sanders's insensitivity to issues of racial justice was shown by his decision to move from New York to Vermont. I'm sure no one on Clinton's staff thought "Vermontgate" had any legs.) The media covered issues because neither candidate was giving them much else to talk about.

The general election is different. Trump has addressed issues somewhat -- such as his call to repeal Obamacare -- but his focus has been, shall we charitably say, less substantive overall. For Clinton's part, she articulates issue positions, as in the press releases and website pages that numerous posts in this thread have trumpeted. Nevertheless, in terms of winning over the undecideds or persuading Republicans to switch, that's not where the action is. Most of the voters who oppose huge tax cuts for the rich are already supporting Clinton. By contrast, tearing down Trump by attacking his personal lack of qualification for the Presidency promises a much greater reward. On top of that, the media, given the choice, will cover a juicy personal issue (be it "Second Amendment" remedies or Clinton Foundation emails) in preference to somebody's boring five-point plan to rebuild the infrastructure or whatever.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Aug 11, 2016, 03:48 PM

170. Well, Trump's idiocy has sucked all the air out of the room.

I don't think this is an issues-based election anymore.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 05:38 PM

176. No.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 05:41 PM

177. It's getting pretty bad. This morning I had a post hidden for asking questions.

 

And it didn't have a damn thing to do with the primary. It was about the Democratic platform!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Fri Aug 12, 2016, 06:39 PM

180. NO I didn't.

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