Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:13 AM Jun 2012

Architect In Diabetic Shock Beaten By Officers, Pepper Sprayed, and Repeatedly Tasered Before Dying

JONATHAN TURLEY:

A disturbing lawsuit has been filed against the Baltimore County Police Department by Linda Johnson over the death of her husband, Architect Carl D. Johnson on May 27, 2010. Johnson was pepper sprayed, tasered, and beaten before his death on the way home from Bible study class.

Linda Johnson is suing the Maryland State Police, Baltimore County Police, individual commanders and six officers. Her lawsuit claims that her husband suffered a diabetic attack after calling a friend and crashing on I-795. First to the scene was State Trooper Davon Parker who pepper sprayed Johnson after he lowered his window of his car, which had crashed into the median. When Johnson got out of the car, Parker clubbed him on the knee and then allegedly another officer (Loss) clubbed him. When Baltimore County Police Officer Nicholas Wolferman arrived, he also allegedly beat Johnson. Three more officers arrived and one, Baltimore County Officer Andrew O’Neill tasered Johnson twice. Officer Loss then allegedly punched him in the face. Eight more officers then arrived — leaving one wondering if there were any officers left at headquarters. The complaint states that “there were approximately 52 individuals that responded to the scene.”

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/06/07/lawsuit-architect-in-diabetic-shock-beaten-by-multiple-officers-pepper-sprayed-and-repeatedly-tasered-before-dying/
98 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Architect In Diabetic Shock Beaten By Officers, Pepper Sprayed, and Repeatedly Tasered Before Dying (Original Post) AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 OP
Could a judge today say this is a open and shut case of MindMover Jun 2012 #1
Or Murder? Manslaughter? Hooliganism? OMG, that poor man. freshwest Jun 2012 #6
Manslaughter DFW Jun 2012 #11
Thanks for the information, DFW. The fartherest north I've been on the East Coast is D.C. freshwest Jun 2012 #13
The death toll from police Taser use in Maryland plus other locations can be found at a web site AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #12
More information re your question about Maryland: AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #27
Without reading any further, my guess is that Carl Johnson was a black man? nt nanabugg Jun 2012 #89
Shameful, and blatantly criminal in any sane society. I'd be interested to see how the various Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #2
Painting with a very wide paint brush aren't you? rustydog Jun 2012 #17
Please do not compare killer cops to people with intellectual disabilities KamaAina Jun 2012 #20
Possibly, but the actions of the majority do. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #26
and if your friends turn a blind eye to such abuses.. frylock Jun 2012 #31
BS. Every LEO I've known has a mind set that everyone they arrest is a criminal and most people 1monster Jun 2012 #70
Keep that happy positive attitude if (God forbid) someone enters your workplace rustydog Jun 2012 #91
Even bad cops can do their jobs correctly sometimes... 1monster Jun 2012 #92
That's what I thought. "Heroes" indeed. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #73
Rustydog - why don't you and your good cops clean your house? Why do you cover for jerks? xtraxritical Jun 2012 #81
Because, apparently it is easier to blame everyone than hold the bad cops accountable. rustydog Jun 2012 #90
And still no answer... Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #93
The Only "Ignorance Bordering On Stupidity" Being Shown Here, Sir, You Are Displaying In Your Posts The Magistrate Jun 2012 #94
More teachers and firefighters? Certainly! Dawson Leery Jun 2012 #3
More cops can actually mean less police brutality KamaAina Jun 2012 #21
Tell that to this guy, it sounds like 52 people responded hughee99 Jun 2012 #35
I don't think it works that way. Mariana Jun 2012 #56
I think it's that overworked cops get stressed out KamaAina Jun 2012 #58
Having medical issues seems to be a criminal offense.. midnight Jun 2012 #4
Enforcing the Republican Health Plan ArcticFox Jun 2012 #5
I am in no way defending the officer's actions but diabetic conditions can mirror rustydog Jun 2012 #16
Lose their Jobs, Hell, Sir: Rot In Jail For Twenty Years, Minimum The Magistrate Jun 2012 #32
If they do any time at all it will be about three years UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #87
these cops should lose their freedom and quite possibly their lives.. frylock Jun 2012 #33
Why can't they use a net for restraint in these situations? Too sane? They're just chickens? xtraxritical Jun 2012 #82
Support the troops... orwell Jun 2012 #7
Horrifying. mzmolly Jun 2012 #8
The thing that bothers but also fascinates me is that here, as with coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #9
Yeah, that was my first reaction. raouldukelives Jun 2012 #67
There should be penalties for mzmolly Jun 2012 #69
oops gaspee Jun 2012 #10
Death by cop seems to be a rapidly increasing hifiguy Jun 2012 #14
and don't forget shanti Jun 2012 #24
Don't forget that the Abu Ghraib folks were COs Alcibiades Jun 2012 #86
kick for justice Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #15
KICK Phhhtttt Jun 2012 #18
I couldn't deduce from the news stories--do we know Mr. Johnson's race? librechik Jun 2012 #19
Much as I can believe this GCP Jun 2012 #22
You should try a search engine. The Doctor. Jun 2012 #37
Only one of two stories reported by the MSM. The other was reported by WBAL Radio. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #52
"Baltimore County police say Johnson got into a rumble with officers" hedgehog Jun 2012 #23
I can't find a picture of Carl D'Andre Johnson, but I'll wager dollars to Krispy Kremes KamaAina Jun 2012 #25
Kick Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #28
The cops have become the bandits and psychopaths we asked them to protect us from. Zalatix Jun 2012 #29
FUCK THA POLICE frylock Jun 2012 #30
Wow, what an amazing coincidence the few bad apples were the only ones to show up at the scene. ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #34
GREAT OBSERVATION, ZombieHorde! Th1onein Jun 2012 #85
Other side of story SecurityManager Jun 2012 #36
Well, that's different. Clearly a death sentence, hifiguy Jun 2012 #38
According to the news report, he sent 3 cops to the hospital Cowpunk Jun 2012 #60
The officers' account would have more credibility if they would release their videos. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #62
I am quite aware that cops often lie to cover their asses. Cowpunk Jun 2012 #95
You are wrong in saying that no one knows anything about the case. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #96
The fact that your list is full of generalities instead of specifics pretty much proves my point. Cowpunk Jun 2012 #97
False equivalency. The fact that you don't know everything doesn't mean that you don't know anything AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #98
The Usual Lies Murderers Tell, Sir: Nothing Worth Paying Attention To The Magistrate Jun 2012 #39
Even if true, at some point they needed to follow the manufacturer's guidelines and not AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #51
Are you joking? Not a damn thing's changed. redqueen Jun 2012 #76
O I forgot cops hated here SecurityManager Jun 2012 #40
People Who Murder Under Color Of Authority, Sir, Are Widely Disliked, And Damned Well Ought To Be The Magistrate Jun 2012 #41
Murdered? SecurityManager Jun 2012 #42
Try Reading What You Reply To, Sir: It Will Help make You look Less Ridiculous The Magistrate Jun 2012 #43
You just ignored the video and statements from others? SecurityManager Jun 2012 #44
Nothing Exculpatory There, Sir: No Defense Against A Depraved Indifference Charge The Magistrate Jun 2012 #48
surely, brownshirts thought they were justified too fascisthunter Jun 2012 #77
Two different state's attorneys, at two different times casually and indifferently acknowledged 1monster Jun 2012 #79
The depraved indifference standard is the one in Maryland. Robinson v State, 517 A. 2d 94 (1986) AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #46
"We pepper sprayed him. We beat him. And we Tasered him until he stopped moving. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #45
And That There Will Be No Prosecution, Sir, is the Real Problem Here The Magistrate Jun 2012 #54
No prosecutions. And the incident may not even interfere with police promotions. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #55
The man DIED after being repeatedly clubed, tazed, and pepper sprayed. What more 1monster Jun 2012 #78
Oh well, just another bad apple among the police. Bake Jun 2012 #47
Sounds like a bad apple ... tree. mzmolly Jun 2012 #71
The whole damn barrel ... hell, the whole damn orchard is rotten! Bake Jun 2012 #88
I'm assuming that he was malaise Jun 2012 #49
I haven't seen his picture Cali_Democrat Jun 2012 #50
Clearly that was not the case. Cowpunk Jun 2012 #61
It's being reported on TheBrownWatch. Cerridwen Jun 2012 #66
Yes indeed malaise Jun 2012 #74
Odd how the bad apples always coincidentally end up coming together RedCappedBandit Jun 2012 #53
I've noticed that too. Mariana Jun 2012 #57
Like it or not The Wizard Jun 2012 #59
I'd Like To Say... Unbelieveable... I Really Wound... WillyT Jun 2012 #63
Typical. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #64
This like this is why I am TERRIFIED of cops. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #65
BAN TASERS. nt BlueIris Jun 2012 #68
Did I miss what race he was ~ goclark Jun 2012 #72
fucking coockoo psychopaths fascisthunter Jun 2012 #75
What is most telling to me about this upsurge oppressive behavior...... DeSwiss Jun 2012 #80
Many, many years ago my uncle was thrown in jail magic59 Jun 2012 #83
Yay, Cops! Iggo Jun 2012 #84

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
6. Or Murder? Manslaughter? Hooliganism? OMG, that poor man.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:55 AM
Jun 2012

I don't know anything about Maryland.

Is there a pattern of this there?



DFW

(54,378 posts)
11. Manslaughter
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 03:48 AM
Jun 2012

They wanted their jollies by trashing him. If he dies, things get complicated. A claim of "resisting arrest" doesn't wash if the man in custody dies, especially with a substantial number of cops watching over him. But it would be difficult to prove any kind of prior intent.

Maryland is a diverse state, with some parts very modern and sophisticated, but many parts rural with a lot of ignorant rednecks. There haven't been many (any?) well publicized incidents of people dying in Maryland from police brutality, so if any has gone on, it has been under the radar of national publicity. No longer. Their governor is a level-headed Democrat, and I'm confident he'll not let this slide.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
13. Thanks for the information, DFW. The fartherest north I've been on the East Coast is D.C.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:52 AM
Jun 2012

Even though the district itself is part or on the edge of Maryland (depending on how one regards it) I never even gave it a passing thought. I was soon making my way back south to I-10 and west again. I'm glad the Democratic governor will see that this is dealt with.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
12. The death toll from police Taser use in Maryland plus other locations can be found at a web site
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 03:58 AM
Jun 2012

maintained for North America deaths by the Canadian family members of a man who died after being Tasered.
http://truthnottasers.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-follows-are-names-where-known.html

There seems to be an upward trend throughout the entire United States. According to an Amnesty International report, the death toll in the U.S. from police Taser use since 2001 reached 500 earlier this year.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/press-releases/amnesty-international-urges-stricter-limits-on-police-taser-use-as-us-death-toll-reaches-500

Also noted in Amnesty International's press release, warnings to police about misuse have been disregarded.

There are continuing reports of police officers using multiple or prolonged shocks, despite warnings that such usage may increase the risk of adverse effects on the heart or respiratory system.

Deaths in the past year include Allen Kephart, 43, who died in May after he was stopped by police for an alleged traffic violation in San Bernardino County, Ca. He died after three officers shocked him up to 16 times. The officers were later cleared of wrongdoing.

Last November, Roger Anthony fell off his bicycle and died after a police officer in North Carolina shot him with a stun gun. The officer reportedly shocked Anthony – who had a disability and hearing problems – because he did not respond to an order to pull over.

From the compilation maintained at the Canadian web site, I counted 14 deaths in Maryland.
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
2. Shameful, and blatantly criminal in any sane society. I'd be interested to see how the various
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:19 AM
Jun 2012

departments react to this. I expect that they will bring down the blue stonewall.

But cops are your friends. They risk their lives to keep you safe from something or other. Blah, blah, blah...

rustydog

(9,186 posts)
17. Painting with a very wide paint brush aren't you?
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:14 PM
Jun 2012

I personally know several police officers current and retired. I work with law enforcement on a daily basis.
They are honorable, truthful, honest and do RISK their LIVES every day for our safety.

The actions of a retarded few should not give you license to bismirch all police officers out of ignorance.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
20. Please do not compare killer cops to people with intellectual disabilities
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:23 PM
Jun 2012
The actions of a retarded few

I feel a hell of a lot safer around my friends with ID than I do around cops.
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
26. Possibly, but the actions of the majority do.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:31 PM
Jun 2012

These truthful, honorable, and honest officers that you know; How many have testified against another of the "retarded few"? How many have turned one of their "retarded" in to IA for their crimes?

And BTW I used to know quite a few good guys that were cops as well. All of them were forced out of their departments because they wouldn't "play ball". They're still good guys, they're just not cops anymore.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
31. and if your friends turn a blind eye to such abuses..
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:12 PM
Jun 2012

then they aren't any better than the fuckers that engage in these atrocities.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
70. BS. Every LEO I've known has a mind set that everyone they arrest is a criminal and most people
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:17 PM
Jun 2012

are criminals that haven't been caught yet.

The good ones get out. The ones that would be good and stay in close their eyes and pretend they don't see or hear...

rustydog

(9,186 posts)
91. Keep that happy positive attitude if (God forbid) someone enters your workplace
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:52 PM
Jun 2012

and begins shooting everyone and everything in sight. Keep your thinly veiled contempt to yourself as the responding officers place thier lives in line to protect yours.

keep your happy positive attitude when police officers respond to an assault call and find a brutally raped victim and comes to their aid. Keep that happy thought about police hold it close to your heart.
It will serve you well.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
92. Even bad cops can do their jobs correctly sometimes...
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:19 PM
Jun 2012

but, my "thinly veiled contempt" has been earned by by the LEOs. My father was a cop. My neighbor for sixteen years was a cop (and considered a good one).

Keeping my "happy thoughts about police" will serve me well, because I know better than to reason with the person with the club, tazer, pepper spay, and gun...

rustydog

(9,186 posts)
90. Because, apparently it is easier to blame everyone than hold the bad cops accountable.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:44 PM
Jun 2012

That is all my post stated.

Punish the assholes, don't paint with such a broad, bigoted IGNORANT brush calling all law enforcement officers bad.
It shows ignorance bordering on stupidity and it is getting old.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
94. The Only "Ignorance Bordering On Stupidity" Being Shown Here, Sir, You Are Displaying In Your Posts
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 03:34 PM
Jun 2012

And indeed, it is getting very, very old....

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
21. More cops can actually mean less police brutality
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:25 PM
Jun 2012

Police brutality tends to happen where cops are stretched too thin. Case in point: L.A., which has always been underpoliced for its size.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
35. Tell that to this guy, it sounds like 52 people responded
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:19 PM
Jun 2012

to the call on this.

In general, though, I agree.

Mariana

(14,857 posts)
56. I don't think it works that way.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:52 PM
Jun 2012

Think about all the vids we've seen of police brutality or other crimes being committed by cops against citizens, in which there was more than one officer present. How many times did any officer take action to protect the victims of their colleagues? I can't think of a single example. Either they stand by and do nothing, or, more often, they actively participate in the beating, the false reporting, the testilying, or what have you.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
58. I think it's that overworked cops get stressed out
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 06:06 PM
Jun 2012

and are more likely to work out on a suspect (like Rodney King).

ArcticFox

(1,249 posts)
5. Enforcing the Republican Health Plan
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:44 AM
Jun 2012

No. one: don't get sick
No. two: if you do get sick, die quickly.

rustydog

(9,186 posts)
16. I am in no way defending the officer's actions but diabetic conditions can mirror
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:11 PM
Jun 2012

drug use. You sweat profusely,mumble like you're drunk or stoned, you can become violent...that said, It sure reads like this is a huge excessive force case.
These cops should lose their jobs.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
9. The thing that bothers but also fascinates me is that here, as with
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 02:17 AM
Jun 2012

Rodney King, a tremendous number of LE personnel show up and many stand around doing nothing while the abuse is going down. I find that almost more worrisome than the extra-judicial punishments being adminstered. Shades of the 'good German' syndrome.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
67. Yeah, that was my first reaction.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:13 PM
Jun 2012

Sometimes I think that condition is really the only thing that has trickled down since the term gained fashion. The morals & ethical stances of our leaders observed, celebrated and reenacted by faithful followers walking in lockstep in every facet of life.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
14. Death by cop seems to be a rapidly increasing
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:00 PM
Jun 2012

cause of mortality. Of course its's always the result of outliers, "bad apples" and lone wolves. There are no instititional problems with the hyper-militarized cops.

And I am Marie of Romania.

shanti

(21,675 posts)
24. and don't forget
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:30 PM
Jun 2012

the many ex-military who are joining police departments after their enlistment is up. after abu ghraib, this should come as no surprise.

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
86. Don't forget that the Abu Ghraib folks were COs
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:41 AM
Jun 2012

National Guardsmen who were an MP unit chock full of people who were correctional workers in a "civilian" context. The way they treated prisoners was no tomsething they did on their own, it's not the way they acted back home: it was the result of special training in how to break down an humiliate folks, especially Muslim men.

I'm sure many others carried these lessons home with them. I wonderhow many folks trained to do waterboarding who did do it against prisoners on behalf of the government abroad are now civilian law enforcement? They have already started this sort of thing at home, after all:



It is absolutely a slippery slope: once you authorize brutality in one context, it transfers to all others, degrading everyone in society.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
19. I couldn't deduce from the news stories--do we know Mr. Johnson's race?
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:17 PM
Jun 2012

incidents like this are usually motivated, esp in the South-near South. At any rate, I was going to guess the victim was African American. Tragedy doesn't begin to describe this.

GCP

(8,166 posts)
22. Much as I can believe this
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:25 PM
Jun 2012

I haven't been able to find one newspaper or TV report about this. All I can find are bloggers' reports on the lawsuit. I would like to know who took account of all the abuse going on. Did it come from the victim before he died? Or was in independently reported? Did he die of the abuse or diabetic complications?
There are so many unanswered questions, and I'm of an age where I don't just take what I read on the internet as gospel any more.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
52. Only one of two stories reported by the MSM. The other was reported by WBAL Radio.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:26 PM
Jun 2012

If this is reported elsewhere by the MSM, who is covering it?

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
25. I can't find a picture of Carl D'Andre Johnson, but I'll wager dollars to Krispy Kremes
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:35 PM
Jun 2012

that he was African American. The cops didn't see an architect. All they saw was a black man.

Note that this took place in Baltimore County, where Spiro Agnew was once county executive, not Baltimore City, which is independent and not part of any county.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
34. Wow, what an amazing coincidence the few bad apples were the only ones to show up at the scene.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:18 PM
Jun 2012

What are the odds?

SecurityManager

(124 posts)
36. Other side of story
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:25 PM
Jun 2012

Architect is not mentioned funny how things change when only one point of view is presented.

Police state he was combative, using obscenity and tried to drive off.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
38. Well, that's different. Clearly a death sentence,
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:31 PM
Jun 2012

to be executed immediately, is the proper fate for someone daring a cop to eff off.

Cowpunk

(719 posts)
60. According to the news report, he sent 3 cops to the hospital
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:05 PM
Jun 2012

There is ample reason here to believe there might be some truth to the officers' account. I am not usually one to defend the police in these types of incidents, but it sure seems like a lot of people are jumping the gun this time.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
62. The officers' account would have more credibility if they would release their videos.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:00 PM
Jun 2012

The news report that you referred to also includes portions of interviews with his neighbors who liked and respected him, and said that he was a good person.

"sent 3 cops to the hospital"? Some people know that police officers are uninhibited about exaggerating both the wrongdoing of those who they assault and their own injuries. It is common for police officers to assault people and then claim that the assaulted victims were "resisting arrest" even when there was no lawful basis for such arrests. It is also common for police officers to claim that they were injured.

I am willing to consider that there "might be some truth to the officers' account," but I am also willing to consider the other circumstances of the case. Who would expect an innocent person going into a diabetic shock, and who has been pepper sprayed, to respond with an obsenity (which may have offended the officers' sensibilities) and to flail out with his hands? At some point, their response went over the line. They didn't need to Tase and beat him to death.

Cowpunk

(719 posts)
95. I am quite aware that cops often lie to cover their asses.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:37 PM
Jun 2012

Few people commenting on this thread seem to be aware that lawsuit complaints only tell one side of the story, and J. Turley surely knows better than to report such accusations as though they were fact. Saying these officers need to be punished based only on this account is like convicting someone on trial right after the D.A.'s opening statement.

I realize it is likely that the officers overreacted, but the fact is I don't know dick about this case. You also don't know dick about this case, and neither does anyone else commenting here. My point is only that there are too many unanswered questions to be screaming "Off with their heads!" at this time.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
96. You are wrong in saying that no one knows anything about the case.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 07:10 PM
Jun 2012

We know that a lawsuit was filed. Start with that.

Some of us are also familiar with Rule 11 in the Federal courts which is applicable to attorneys who file civil rights lawsuits without investigating the factual basis for their cases before filing them.

Some of us know that the sanctions applicable under Rule 11 can justify an award of attorney fees when a civil rights lawsuit is filed without a factual basis.

We also know that there is an upward trend of police brutalizing people, and doing so in an uninhibited manner with pepper spray, police clubs, and Tasers.

We also know that the driver was a law-abiding citizen and, from the video clip elsewhere on this thread, a number of his neighbors (or now former neighbors) verified that he was a good person.

We know that the police use video cameras.

We know that the police have not released any of their video footage. And we know that if they had any video footage justifying their actions, they would release it on their own to the MSM instead of just holding a news conference and making self-serving statements.

We know that the driver is dead. We also know, as stated in the headline, that the police pepper sprayed him, beat him, and repeatedly Tased him before his death.

We also know that the police protect their own. And they and their sympathizers will claim to not know things which they obviously do know.

And what is your reason for claiming that no one knows anything about this case?

Cowpunk

(719 posts)
97. The fact that your list is full of generalities instead of specifics pretty much proves my point.
Fri Jun 15, 2012, 02:21 AM
Jun 2012

Nevertheless, here's what I'd like to know:

Were the police videotaping during the arrest? If so, does the tape actually prove anything?

Has the medical examiner's report been released? What does it say?

Is there any concrete evidence that Mr. Johnson was in diabetic shock at the time of the incident?

Is there any history of Mr. Johnson behaving violently during any of his episodes?

Is there any evidence that Mr. Johnson had been acting out of character before the incident?

Had the officers been trained to recognize the symptoms of diabetic shock?

Do any witnesses corroborate either the police version or the wife's version of the incident?

How exactly did the wife of Mr. Johnson piece together her account of the incident?

Have the investigations into the incident been concluded, and if so, what were the findings?

Why is Mrs. Johnson filing suit 2 years after the death of her husband?

Is the suit filed by Mrs. Johnson technically a civil rights lawsuit?

If you have any definitive answers to these questions, I would thank you for enlightening me.




 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
98. False equivalency. The fact that you don't know everything doesn't mean that you don't know anything
Fri Jun 15, 2012, 12:04 PM
Jun 2012

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
39. The Usual Lies Murderers Tell, Sir: Nothing Worth Paying Attention To
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:31 PM
Jun 2012

Police are schooled in how to lie about their use of force, and not a word they say on the subject should be believed without independent corroboration. The lies grow more florid when someone is killed by police in circumstances where it is obvious to any rational person that deadly force was not required.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
51. Even if true, at some point they needed to follow the manufacturer's guidelines and not
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:16 PM
Jun 2012

repeatedly Tase him until his death.

Also, even if true, out of a respect for humanity, they needed to stop beating him until he died.

Was he combative after being pepper sprayed? Was he using an obscenity or two? Did he try to get away from the cop who sprayed him (which would, to some people, appear to the the opposite of being combative)? Even if true, was he being combative, using obscenities, and trying to drive away prior to each blow being delivered to him? Prior to each Tasing?

Not only are the claims of the police spokesman not sufficient to support the beating and zapping of him until he died, but the claim that sensibilities of the police were offended by his use of obsenities is not credible. He was a law-abiding citizen who was just coming from a Bible class.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
41. People Who Murder Under Color Of Authority, Sir, Are Widely Disliked, And Damned Well Ought To Be
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:39 PM
Jun 2012

You know perfectly well this was a criminally excessive use of force.

You know there was no real justification for the killing of this man, that this death was the result of a depraved indifference to the consequences of their actions by police officers.

You know that incidents like this occur too frequently, and that they will continue to occur until they are treated as the heinous crimes they are, with long terms of incarceration, or even execution, being the consequences for the officers who do such deeds.

SecurityManager

(124 posts)
42. Murdered?
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:42 PM
Jun 2012

Do you not need facts before a crazy accusation as that?

Are you so naive to believe law enforcement are simply out to kill?

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
43. Try Reading What You Reply To, Sir: It Will Help make You look Less Ridiculous
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:54 PM
Jun 2012

The action of these officers clearly demonstrates depraved indifference to the consequences of their actions, which is a legal standard for murder in many jurisdictions.

Beyond that, you seem to be under a mis-apprehension regarding the concept of premeditation: that can take place quite literally in the blink of an eye, meaning simply that the intent to achieve a certain effect by an act was formed before the act was carried out, whether weeks of seconds is immaterial. There is no immediately apparent evidence an intention to kill was formed, at none disclosed publicly so far, but it is abundantly clear that far more force was used than necessary, and that depraved indifference to the consequences of the force used was displayed by those employing it, and witnessing its employment by fellow officers.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
48. Nothing Exculpatory There, Sir: No Defense Against A Depraved Indifference Charge
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:08 PM
Jun 2012

You seem to be afflicted with the belief police are always justified in use of force in whatever degree, and always truthful in their statements regarding the behavior of people they use force against. People who honestly believe these two propositions really ought not be allowed out fo doors without attendants....

"They don't take chocolate money out in the real world, Arthur...."

1monster

(11,012 posts)
79. Two different state's attorneys, at two different times casually and indifferently acknowledged
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:45 PM
Jun 2012

to me that "cops lie all the time" and that they, the state's attorneys had no problem with them lying.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
45. "We pepper sprayed him. We beat him. And we Tasered him until he stopped moving.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:02 PM
Jun 2012

But we really didn't mean to kill him."

That's the defense?

At some point prior to death, police officers need to follow the manufacturer's guideline and not repeatedly Tase people.

Those who will not following the manufacturer's guidelines and, while knowing that electrifying people with Taser shocks can and has caused homicides, are taking a risk that they are going to kill someone.

Killing someone while having a depraved indifference can support a conviction for second-degree murder under appropriate circumstances. A conviction for second-degree murder does not require proof of intent as does first-degree murder. That's the law. It's on the books.

No one is going to prosecute these cops for anything, however. That's the way that the system works.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
54. And That There Will Be No Prosecution, Sir, is the Real Problem Here
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:34 PM
Jun 2012

Cities and counties and states pay out millions of dollars every year in civil judgments won in cases of assault and killings by police, and in almost every instance, the police department of the city or county or state would not even call the complaint of police mis-conduct founded, let alone press criminal or even administrative charges.

It should be law that, if a civil judgement is won against police for injury or death inflicted on a person, the prosecutor must bring criminal charges against the officers named in the suit. To prevail in a civil suit requires meeting the standard for criminal indictment, if not conviction.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
55. No prosecutions. And the incident may not even interfere with police promotions.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:46 PM
Jun 2012

Last year, in 2011, Prince George’s County Executive nominated at least one of those involved with a set-up raid on the house of a Maryland Mayor of Berwyn Heights which resulted in police abuse and the shooting deaths of his two black Labrador retrievers.

In addition to having his two dogs killed, Calvo and his mother-in-law were handcuffed for several hours, and questioned at gunpoint.

(The Mayor) also learned just how obstinate and unapologetic police and government officials can be, even (or especially) when they're clearly in the wrong. Prince George's County Police Chief Melvin High actually praised his officers' conduct, insisting that if they had to do it again they'd conduct the Calvo raid the same way. "Our investigators went in and showed both restraint and compassion," he told a local TV station.
http://reason.com/archives/2009/07/13/swat-gone-wild-in-maryland



1monster

(11,012 posts)
78. The man DIED after being repeatedly clubed, tazed, and pepper sprayed. What more
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:42 PM
Jun 2012

evidence do you need that their was excessive force used?

Bake

(21,977 posts)
88. The whole damn barrel ... hell, the whole damn orchard is rotten!
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:41 PM
Jun 2012

I'm sick of hearing about these "bad apples."

Time t cut down the tree to the root!

Bake

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
50. I haven't seen his picture
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:12 PM
Jun 2012

I would guesstimate there's an 80% chance he's black. Of course, I could be wrong, but incidents like this tend to happen to blacks more often because America is an inherently racist society.

Cowpunk

(719 posts)
61. Clearly that was not the case.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:21 PM
Jun 2012

Driving While Black means being pulled over for no other reason than your ethnicity. The police received calls about a man driving recklessly, after which he crashed. This thread has really brought out the worst in people. Everyone just knows the cops beat this guy for no good reason, despite ample evidence there was some kind of altercation.

Cerridwen

(13,258 posts)
66. It's being reported on TheBrownWatch.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:48 PM
Jun 2012

My guess would be, yes, DWB.

My first thought was a bit tangential to yours. I noticed they made an effort to point out he was a successful architect and returning from bible study. Ya know, not one of "those" black people.

Subtle racism is not so subtle.

Mariana

(14,857 posts)
57. I've noticed that too.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 06:03 PM
Jun 2012

I'm trying to think of a single example of a case like this in which any officer took any action to protect the victim of his or her fellow officers. I'm not coming up with any. In ALL of the vids I've seen in which more than one cop is present when a citizen is being abused, none of them attempts to put a stop to it. Most of the time, they actively join in.

The Wizard

(12,545 posts)
59. Like it or not
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 06:34 PM
Jun 2012

we have become a police state with paramilitary police who are above the law. The uniform worship has been over the edge for quite some time. Yes police are trained to lie under oath, hence the lack of prosecution when crimes are committed under the color of law. They only get into trouble when they beat the shit out of one of the wealthy elites. As for society in general, they are a genuine threat. And most of them vote Repube, surprise surprise. They are mental defectives with high powered weapons to use with impunity and a license to kill.
Do you feel secure or threatened if the police are coming in your direction? Even if they have the wrong person they will conspire to create an offense to use against their victims.
Unmitigated violence against law abiding citizens will only lead to chaos and a general demise in civilization.
First they came for the Jews..............

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
63. I'd Like To Say... Unbelieveable... I Really Wound...
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:04 PM
Jun 2012

but I no longer can.



I hope they all lose their jobs, their pensions, and their freedom.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
64. Typical.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:12 PM
Jun 2012

I live in OC California and if a husband and wife have a loud argument and someone calls the cops the whole damn neighborhood goes on lockdown. They close the streets and act like anyone coming out from curiosity over what all the excitement is about is a threat. Next thing you know they have 20 or thirty cars show up and cops are acting like the entire population is rising up against them. Police helicopters circle overhead and people are ordered to return to their homes or face arrest.

All this can be caused from someone not being able to find their car keys.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
65. This like this is why I am TERRIFIED of cops.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:28 PM
Jun 2012

I am sure many cops would consider my odd autistic mannerisms and evidence for something.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
80. What is most telling to me about this upsurge oppressive behavior......
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:32 PM
Jun 2012

...is the total lack of any federal agency concern or involvement in investigating and/or suing these crooked cops who are clearly violating the civil rights of its citizens. Investigations like was done to those fat ass, cigar-chomping, sweat-encrusted sheriffs down here in the South during the 60s and 70s.

- Now it's more likely that the feds would give the cops a grant from Homeland Security for more killing & maiming devices, along with offers for new shiny drones......


''Power does what it wants. Now they're just more naked about it. Now they just put it out in front and say ''this is what we're doing to you folks.'' This country's finished. It's been sliding down for a long time. Everybody's got a cellphone that makes pancakes and they don't want to rock the boat. They don't want to make any trouble. The people of this country have been bought-off with gizmos and toys. No one questions anything anymore.'' ~George Carlin


K&R
 

magic59

(429 posts)
83. Many, many years ago my uncle was thrown in jail
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:19 AM
Jun 2012

because cops thought he was drunk. It was a brain tumor and he died from it. He was a WWII vet.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Architect In Diabetic Sho...