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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNBC's Pete Williams reporting there are some indications Sovereign Citizens may be involved .....
.... in the Baton Rouge shootings.
That's certainly different from the conclusion to which many have seemingly jumped.
If you don't know this group, read this on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)This is extremely huge to say the least.
Stinky The Clown
(67,847 posts)So far it is all pretty nebulous, but that's how some facts uncover themselves.
Mika
(17,751 posts)Williams, a graduate of Stanford University, began his career in local news with the Casper, Wyoming, television station KTWO and its eponymous radio station in 1974.
In 1986, Williams became press secretary for U.S. Representative Dick Cheney and followed Cheney to the United States Department of Defense as Cheney became United States Secretary of Defense to be the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs in 1989 during the George H. W. Bush administration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Williams_(journalist)
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)LOL! BTW - Dick Cheney visited his buddy, Joe Meyer (future AG of Wyoming) who lived in my parents' basement while in school at Laramie. Does that make me suspect?
Pete Williams has proven himself numerous times to be extremely credible and honorable. Until I see evidence of bias - other than working for someone to earn a living - I will stand by my statement.
PatSeg
(47,770 posts)He has proven to be a credible and trustworthy journalist.
Mika
(17,751 posts)Oh well.
While serving as a Pentagon spokesperson, he was accused of allegedly working to cover up the large-scale irregular military activities that had occurred during the US invasion of Panama under the pretense of apprehending Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega, which was later featured in the documentary film The Panama Deception (1992).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Williams_(journalist)#Press_secretary
Plus, I'm not inferring guilt by association... just action.
Cheers.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)it's much like referring to Reader's Digest in a debate - I do not consider Wikipedia a credible source and do not find this dispositive. Nice try though.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,075 posts)People who condemn Wikipedia articles have little idea of how well referenced articles are, especially articles on controversial topics. Any changes or additions are typically debated in depth as needed.
If you really read an article and actually think it is mistaken, and have a credible reference to back your point up (not personal recollection), then step in and edit it and include the reference. Even if you get the formatting wrong, editors (like me) will fix it up.
If you actually read the Wikipedia article, which is even-handed, you would see that it points out (in support of you) that
10. Freedlander, David (April 20, 2013). "NBC, Today Show Get Boston Marathon Bombing Coverage Right". The Daily Beast. Retrieved June 6, 2013.
11. Byers, Dylan (April 19, 2013). "Pete Williams and the threat to CNN". Dylan Byers on Media (blog of Politico). Retrieved June 6, 2013.
12. Resnick, Brian (April 19, 2013). "Pete Williams' Reporting Philosophy, And Why He's Getting Boston Right". National Journal. Retrieved June 6, 2013.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)Your observations are noted and will go into my notebook.
You are trying too hard, but that is just my opinion
MinM
(2,650 posts)Much of Williams coverage was taken up by a selective and slanted account of what the Walsh report didnt prove about Reagan/Bush administration wrongdoing:
His report claims no proof that President Reagan authorized or knew of a scheme to take money from arms sales to Iran and give it to the Nicaraguan Contras. Or that Vice President Bush or Attorney General Meese knew of it either. And no evidence that Reagan authorized Lt. Col. Oliver North to set up the secret Contra-supply operation.
But Williams couldnt find room to mention anything that Walsh said that Bush was culpable of, including lying to the public about his central role in the Iran arms sales, and withholding evidence from the inquiry. Also unmentioned by Williams were Walshs angry criticisms of Bushs last-minute pardons. If Bush was watching NBC, he would have been proud to see how dedicated Williams was to protecting his ex-boss.
http://fair.org/extra/walsh-reports-scandalous-coverage/
matt819
(10,749 posts)Independent of Baton Rouge, I was thinking that it's amazing that the sovereign citizen buffoonery has not met with more resistance from law enforcement, which treats it, maybe correctly/maybe not, as something of a joke.
Then I got to thinking what would happen if African-Americans started declaring themselves sovereign citizens. You know full well that law enforcement would declare war on sovereign citizens.
On the flip side, if a police force in some city decided to start using traffic stops to stop white people. Who knows, maybe some of those stops will result in police murders of unarmed white people. Would that have an effect on how police murders are viewed/treated?
Just random thoughts on a hot Sunday afternoon.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)chillfactor
(7,590 posts)I had no idea who these nutcases were......
Mika
(17,751 posts)DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)Those loons had a shootout with police on the side of I40. They fled and had a final shootout in a busy Walmart parking lot.
They are crazy.
B2G
(9,766 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)Seeing as how the SPLC lists them as a racist, anti-semantic group.
annavictorious
(934 posts)cadaverdog
(228 posts)I guess you could argue that there are a few people on this forum that are "anti-semantic" from time to time, but not in a hateful sort of way.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)Well, Maybe A Black 'Sovereign Citizen' Will Get People's Attention
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/well-maybe-black-sovereign-citizen-w
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)What may be even stranger about Gaines and his black Fort Wayne cohorts is that the sovereign citizens ideology to which they adhere a conspiratorial belief system that argues that most Americans are not subject to most tax and criminal laws promulgated by the government was originally thoroughly anti-black. But its racist roots have been virtually forgotten by increasing numbers of black Americans who have melded it with selective interpretations of the teachings of pioneer black nationalist Noble Drew Ali, who founded the exclusively black Moorish Science Temple of America (MSTA) almost 100 years ago.
The core ideas of the sovereign citizens movement originated in the racist and anti-Semitic Posse Comitatus group, which roiled the Midwest in the 1970s and 1980s and believed that the county sheriff is the highest legitimate law enforcement authority. Posse ideologues argued, in effect, that God gave America to the white man and therefore the government cannot abridge most rights of whites unless they submit to a contract with that government. But black people were only made citizens by the 14th Amendment, they argued, meaning that they have permanently contracted with the government and therefore must obey all its dictates.
The movement of sovereign citizens most of whom are clearly unaware of the ideologys racist roots has grown extremely rapidly in the last two or three years. And, while black Americans remain a relatively small fraction of the estimated 300,000 sovereign citizens nationwide, it seems clear that their numbers are growing. In the last year, more and more black sovereigns, including several arrested in Georgia and elsewhere for using bogus documents to try to steal houses, have been implementing the movements basic ideas and techniques, which have spread into a number of radical black nationalist groups.
That convergence may not be entirely surprising, given that the MSTAs Noble Drew Ali taught that black Moors were Americas original inhabitants and are therefore entitled to self-governing, nation-within-a-nation status. (Many American black nationalist groups refer mistakenly to the people of northern Africa as black; in fact, the Moors were a mix of Arabs, Berbers and black people.) Today, black nationalists who see themselves as Moors and white sovereign citizens both believe they have key rights that pre-date by eons the present government.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)there are a lot of people who consider themselves sovereign citizens who aren't aligned with any organized groups. I've seen videos of sovereign citizens interacting with cops, with judges in court, etc and some were black or other PoC.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Read up on the "Moorish Nation" or "Moor Nation" to see one such group.
maryellen99
(3,790 posts)You won't hear a peep out of Trump and his ilk.
B2G
(9,766 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)rocktivity
(44,588 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 17, 2016, 08:11 PM - Edit history (1)
Huffington Post:...This was not a 'come-at-police' situation, ...(w)itness Brady Vancel told WAFB... They werent targeting police at first...because these were men out here shooting at each other in an empty parking lot until the police showed and then it turned into a gun battle -- Im guessing to try to get themselves free or get out of the situation.
http://www.wafb.com/clip/12598278/brady-witness-interview
rocktivity
840high
(17,196 posts)maryellen99
(3,790 posts)You think Trump and his ilk give 2 shits about that dead black cop. He hates black people period.
doc03
(35,454 posts)BLM cause at all. If this is so Fox will drop the story like a hot potato.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Pete Williams was outstanding duirng the Boston marathon bombing.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)One wouldn't think that they would try to align themselves with BLM in the first place...
Not that I think SCs would have a problem with the concept of killing cops in principle.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)was aligned with the Black Lives Matter movement?
TipTok
(2,474 posts)I'm saying that the shooting of police officers, especially after Dallas, is linked in the public mind to BLM.
That may be factually untrue but the public narrative and the facts don't always match.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,847 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,847 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)The suspect has been identified as a black male named Gavin Eugene Long of Kansas City, Missouri, sources tell CBS News. He was born on July 17, 1987.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-police-shooting-suspects-information/
eleny
(46,166 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Hope it was worth it.
Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #24)
Stinky The Clown This message was self-deleted by its author.
Stinky The Clown
(67,847 posts)..... being discussed inside the investigation.
Stinky The Clown
(67,847 posts)1646 EDT
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But I know DU would prefer that.
rocktivity
(44,588 posts)...This was not a 'come-at-police' situation, ...(w)itness Brady Vancel told WAFB... They werent targeting police at first...because these were men out here shooting at each other in an empty parking lot until the police showed and then it turned into a gun battle -- Im guessing to try to get themselves free or get out of the situation.
http://www.wafb.com/clip/12598278/brady-witness-interview
rocktivity
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)This was the cops showing up in the middle of a gunfight between two groups.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)maryellen99
(3,790 posts)One of the dead officers is African American.
B2G
(9,766 posts)don't probably care much what color their skin is.
Skittles
(153,310 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)rocktivity
(44,588 posts)Jcanuk
(5 posts)I think that I will wait for another news source. The WAFB link in the Bipartisan Report doesn't even go to WAFB.
Besides, have you seen the junk on their Twitter feed?