General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBrexit means the last, best chance for a united Ireland.
So if one believes that colonialism is a bad thing, one must demand Brexit
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)watching here in the US. And yes, that would certainly go a long way. I've read already that Scotland is moving forward. What a stunning historical event...just overnight practically.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)anger amongst people who really should have known better. And they did very nicely out it.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)The CTA will (possibly) survive, but the peace process border negotiations just got thrown out with the bathwater because they were predicated on intra-EU borders.
lapfog_1
(29,223 posts)from war... one could cross from Ireland to N. Ireland with almost no difficulty...
Now with Brexit, everything could be walled off again and the old passions ignited.
The outcome here is either a drift towards unity, or a drift towards conflict. And since the old conflict never went away and was only quieted down, I think the latter is unfortunately more likely.
MADem
(135,425 posts)There are signs but they're easy to miss. If the speed limit is in miles, you are in Northern Ireland (UK). If it's in Km per hour, you are back in the EU (Ireland).
You'll also see signs for money changers, if you want to get rid of your Euros/pounds.
Quite a contrast with how it used to be, with fences and checkpoints.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)That wasn't really a root cellar in Mrs. Murphy's back garden...!
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)craigmatic
(4,510 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts).
Bit by bit, their empire is crumbling. The sun now sets on the British Empire.
.
obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)And, not to be absorbed back into Spain. Sounds like they want a micro-state deal like Monaco.
enid602
(8,652 posts)The Argentines now argue that because the Treaty of Lisbon of 2005 (which gives the UK official control of the Malvinas (Falklands)) was signed by an EU member, it is now no longer in effect. Bankers in NYC, Paris and Frankfurt are licking their chops to take over London's lucrative financial sector. The vultures are lining up to pick off the carcass.
TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts)roamer65
(36,747 posts)A more devolved UK with an associate membership in the EU I do see.
Scots won't want to trade the pound for the euro.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They're a bit annoyed I should think....
Nicola Sturgeon: second Scottish independence poll highly likely
First minister says it is a democratic outrage that Scotland would be taken out of European Union against its will
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/alex-salmond-second-scottish-independence-referendum-is-certain
roamer65
(36,747 posts)Turnout was 85 pct on the first one and it didn't pass. Turnout for the EU referendum was MUCH lower.
I also highly doubt they will do the referendum while talks are underway with the EU on a redefined membership. The UK will not leave the EU. The Germans won't allow it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The noise they are making is that they value the EU more than Westminster. Even the Harry Potter author says she's ready to go.
The article at the link is pretty interesting.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)England will tell them they can't use the pound and gearing up to use the euro would take a least two to three years.
Personally, I think leaving the EU is not possible without the approval of Westminster, the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland legislatures.
MADem
(135,425 posts)There's been some talk of crafting a Scottish currency (like the old Irish punt) that keys off the British pound, but who knows what they'll do? Maybe they'll just continue to circulate the pound for the time being--it would be in (what's left of) UK's benefit to leave things as they are in that way, at least in the near term. It would certainly make the bookkeeping easier. I simply don't see them saying "You can't use our money." How can they even enforce that?
Look at Ecuador--guess what they use for currency? OFFICIALLY, mind you--not black market, like Venezuela.
The US dollar.
Really--not making it up. The official currency of Ecuador is that Mean Mean Green. It has been thus for sixteen years, now, and they like it--much better than their crappy and volatile sucre that they dumped. It's very convenient if you visit--no moneychanging required at all! And it's not like they're our best buds (remember Evo Morales and his plane games in Europe? And who is that fellow sitting in the Embassy of Ecuador across the street from Harrod's in London?) but hey, we've got the most stable currency in the hemisphere, and they know it.
Denzil_DC
(7,257 posts)We have a number of options. One thing about the SNP is that they plan ahead. Poor as it is, the euro might not be the worst option given what's likely to happen in the next couple of years.
All bets are off. You're relying on the result of a referendum where Scots were told very clearly and repeatedly that they had to vote No to independence or they'd be out of the EU.
There's already a sea change in opinion in Scotland. Media that strongly supported No have swung behind Sturgeon's right to have a second referendum on the table. People who voted No are saying they'd now vote Yes. The SNP's membership has started to grow yet again. Expect opinion polls in coming weeks to bear this out.
MADem
(135,425 posts)south again, quite possibly.
Here's the problem--for any entity of the UK to vote to leave the Kingdom in order to make arrangements to stay in the EU, they must GET THE PERMISSION of the PM.
Assuming the next PM is a LEAVE THE EU enthusiast, that won't happen.
About the only solution that might work is if there is a great hue and cry and re-evaluation, and the electorate DEMANDS a PM who will ask for a 2nd referendum on the issue.
No one thought this shit would pass--not even the LEAVE guys, I don't think. They also don't realize how they're not going to have all that good, cheap French and Italian wine in the supermarket anymore, and how shit is going to cost much, much more, and all those subsidies that are partially funded by the EU are going to go away.
It's going to be like Thatcher times, without Thatcher. And the rich will get richer--the people who are afraid of those "furriners" are the ones who will be getting poorer.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)It was the unionist areas in NI that voted Brexit, the nationalists supported 'Remain'
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/your-eu-referendum-vote-could-change-things-forever-northern-ireland
Plus, there are ties between UKIP and the unionists in Northern Ireland:
A Northern Ireland Office (NIO) memo released in 2012 described him as "a dangerous nuisance".[1] He is the current Assistant Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_McNarry
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)The Protestants all voted Leave. The Catholics voted remain. Let's see how reunification works under those circumstances.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)couldn't afford to take them, even if we wanted to. Just on one issue, their dole (unemployment benefit is £73 (about 90), the dole in the Republic is 188 a week. There are 40,000 unemployed in the North, in a country where 30% of the workforce work for the Public Service. Plus, the UK government gives them a subvention of £5bn a year (20% of the N.I. economic output).
Besides all that, the Unionist population don't want it, so it's a dead issue.
Igel
(35,356 posts)The Protestants have been there long enough that you can't really say they're colonialists and occupiers. It's their country, too.
It's like the Falklands. Take a vote. They stay in or stay out, but either way its not colonialism at this point.
Remember: The Sioux are in the Black Hills because they engaged in war and ethnic cleansing; their warfare and movement into this territory is documented. We think of them as having indigenous rights to the land because they've been there so long, but the Protestants in Ulster set up shop there a century before the Sioux moved into the area around the Black Hills. Same for the Anglo-Americans in New England. This isn't said to constraint the Sioux and make them vacate their land; it's said to point out that longevity in a territory matters, and we tend to be biased for or against certain races and religions and ethnicities in how we interpret that. Being "fair" sometimes requires being humble before our own principles and ideals instead of revising the principles based on the outcome our emotions want.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)the Protestant majority in NI have been there since the 1600s, it's as much their country as the USA is Americans' (give it back to the Native Americans if you think this is a good idea).
Unrepentant Fenian
(1,078 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)Times are changing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)the last, best chance for vicious sectarian violence. What a fun tossup! I love playing guessing games with people's lives.