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hill2016

(1,772 posts)
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 08:53 PM Jun 2016

The people asking for a second referendum on an online petition lost & should get over it

Really, they have a problem with democracy.

It's like voting on online polls for your candidate. Not going to change anything. Majority still wins.

I guess they are still in the first stage (denial).

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The people asking for a second referendum on an online petition lost & should get over it (Original Post) hill2016 Jun 2016 OP
I concur wholeheartedly... eom Purveyor Jun 2016 #1
Then all those who voted to leave deserve to be crushed economically since they begged for it. Lucky Luciano Jun 2016 #2
(shakes head) Even the "Leaders" hadn't a clue what was about libdem4life Jun 2016 #3
LOL. Yes, "millions will be hurt." PSPS Jun 2016 #4
The Onion? Losing jobs and livlihoods and homes and all the libdem4life Jun 2016 #6
Yes, the sky is falling. That's the proper official approved reaction. I understand that. PSPS Jun 2016 #13
Ya got me. I'm just using common sense while listening and libdem4life Jun 2016 #14
Exantly. Just wild-eyed "sky is falling" nonsense none of which makes any sense (or difference.) PSPS Jun 2016 #19
Oh, go ahead and pick. Doesn't bother me at all. You must be quite young. libdem4life Jun 2016 #20
It's not just the media. Economists are saying this. I read that in a few places too. AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #23
pretty simple hill2016 Jun 2016 #5
Looks like you've read all of 2 articles, I'd guess. libdem4life Jun 2016 #8
LOL depression? hill2016 Jun 2016 #9
Like I said...go get real information, then try and add something libdem4life Jun 2016 #11
tell me hill2016 Jun 2016 #12
... libdem4life Jun 2016 #15
UK gets control over its borders again??? The UK is dead now Albertoo Jun 2016 #16
Now why didn't I think of that? Correct answer. libdem4life Jun 2016 #21
Not according to the Leave leadership now the results are in, but what do they know? n/t Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #26
They can re-vote if they like as long as it is done by the laws of the UK. Jim Beard Jun 2016 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #10
Democracy doesn't end with a single vote. HuckleB Jun 2016 #17
Except that it's easier to destroy by referendum than to build Albertoo Jun 2016 #18
In California they were Propositions. And what a mess some of them made. libdem4life Jun 2016 #22
You speak in the past tense of CA Propositions, they are a current fact of life, Prop 8 was a recent Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #29
Thanks (kind of) for the information. Yes, I lived there for 50 years libdem4life Jun 2016 #36
As I understand politics in the UK, this is how people commonly tell their reps they want justiceischeap Jun 2016 #24
LOL No. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #25
Unfortunately the people who voted to stay JustAnotherGen Jun 2016 #27
I wonder will YOU have a problem with democracy in November? CBGLuthier Jun 2016 #28
I assume the OP believes CA should have retained Prop 8 because they voted for it once.... Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #30
Fun fact, the petition was put up before the vote by a right-wing "Leave" supporter Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #31
That IS a fun fact! Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #32
Yup. "This foot ain't going to shoot itself!" n/t Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #34
LOL hill2016 Jun 2016 #39
They are free to sign any online petition they want but a re-vote would be suicidal for the left. pampango Jun 2016 #33
This is the problem. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #35
It's not quite as simple as left and right. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #40
Some asking for second referendum may have won, not lost. JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2016 #37
You mean like edhopper Jun 2016 #38

Lucky Luciano

(11,225 posts)
2. Then all those who voted to leave deserve to be crushed economically since they begged for it.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:00 PM
Jun 2016

"Thank you sir may I have another" should be their rallying cry!

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
3. (shakes head) Even the "Leaders" hadn't a clue what was about
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:11 PM
Jun 2016

to happen. Try not to be so gleeful. Millions will be hurt in many ways.

Reading ... getting educated ... on a few sources will help balance out the hubris.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
6. The Onion? Losing jobs and livlihoods and homes and all the
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:22 PM
Jun 2016

other thing that happen to common people during upheaval...have you ever read any history? Have you read Serious Articles in the MSM about this abysmal misjudgment of political pandering? I'd recommend it.

PSPS

(13,413 posts)
13. Yes, the sky is falling. That's the proper official approved reaction. I understand that.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:22 PM
Jun 2016

The funny thing is that nobody can provide any specifics beyond mere speculation/parroting that people will be "losing jobs and livelihoods and homes." Maybe you can educate us all with a believable scenario where such things will happen.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
14. Ya got me. I'm just using common sense while listening and
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:41 PM
Jun 2016

reading folks much closer to the situation and smarter than I. Been reading lots of sources for the past two days. The political players don't know what to do. That's what's pathetic. George Soros just made a gargantuam sum of money. The Market tanked. Spain is nipping at Gibralter again, Ireland wants to unite and secede, Scotland is .... do your own research.

Also be good to check out what's happening on the continent, too. All kinds of uncertainty.

And when that happens, it's not the 1%ers who gets hurt. But I'm sure you already know that. Ever heard of Deflation? Be good to look it up.

Just do some reading...I don't have the time or desire to "educate" anyone.

PSPS

(13,413 posts)
19. Exantly. Just wild-eyed "sky is falling" nonsense none of which makes any sense (or difference.)
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:24 PM
Jun 2016

I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but all these posts decrying "oh the horror" is just parroting what the hysterical media is telling people to think. None of it even makes sense. You, yourself, said people would be "losing jobs and livelihoods and homes" but can't describe how such a thing would occur. The fact is that nobody can because it isn't going to happen.

AgadorSparticus

(7,963 posts)
23. It's not just the media. Economists are saying this. I read that in a few places too.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:55 AM
Jun 2016

I am not going to go look it up and site it here, either.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
8. Looks like you've read all of 2 articles, I'd guess.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:26 PM
Jun 2016

It may get its borders, but they are already trying to back it down. How does a Depression sound? You think it won't affect our fairly precarious financial situation? Europe is at the verge of deflation and has been for some time. Other countries are in the same situation.

Do some research, then get back to me. Or don't.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
11. Like I said...go get real information, then try and add something
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:40 PM
Jun 2016

to the conversation. Do you know what Deflation is? It's hovering over the US, just not as much.

Oh, and it's the leaders who are in "fearmongering" mode now. They don't know WTF to do. And their Colonies have begun the process to dump them...Spain is closing in on Gibralter...Calais is about to shut them down...but then what's the harm...don't let the door hit you... That's kind of what the rest of Europe is now inferring.

And in answer to your title...Yes Depression with a Capital D. George Soros just made billions...overnight. That's not a good thing for a country. Their stock market tanked. They got their borders...well after a while maybe...but their neighbors are not quite so neighborly any more.

No one knows exactly what to do because it has never been done. The EU is really in a tough spot...Germany...but not for simple minds, however.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
12. tell me
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:49 PM
Jun 2016

how does a country smaller than many of our mid-sized states cause the US to fall into deflation? The Fed is rising interest rates because inflation is round the corner.

UK's stock market tanked? LOL. It lost all of -3%, is up from five days ago, and barely unchanged from one month and three months ago and since the start of the year. What's the big deal about Gibralter anyway? Fearmongering!

 

Albertoo

(2,016 posts)
16. UK gets control over its borders again??? The UK is dead now
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:45 PM
Jun 2016

The Scots and the Irish will leave.

Buh bye, Great Britain.

Buh bye, United Kingdom.

 

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)
7. They can re-vote if they like as long as it is done by the laws of the UK.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:25 PM
Jun 2016

Who are we to talk, we finish with one election and then we immediately start talking about the next one. Very little matters of substance.

Response to hill2016 (Original post)

 

Albertoo

(2,016 posts)
18. Except that it's easier to destroy by referendum than to build
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:49 PM
Jun 2016

A referendum all too easily ends up being a way to express all manners of discontent.

I know pro-EU English people who voted Leave to get rid of Scotland.

Elections should elect leaders, this side over that side. Referendums are often highjacked.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
22. In California they were Propositions. And what a mess some of them made.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:33 PM
Jun 2016

Especially the one that cut taxes on the wealthy on the backs of the public school system. Prop 13...I had to buy pencils and paste and workbooks...there were few graded books. No aides, playground duty...we did get out lunch time. And teacher pay? A joke. I left after I got my free college education...NDEA loans... paid off.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
29. You speak in the past tense of CA Propositions, they are a current fact of life, Prop 8 was a recent
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 07:35 AM
Jun 2016

expression of CA's moral rectitude passed by the straight voters of CA to put LGBT in our place. Oddly, CA expressed almost instant regrets for that vote, those who voted for it claimed they did not mean it and the whole thing got reversed and is no longer the law. CA was not stuck with Prop 8 and the UK does not have to be stuck with Brexit either. CA is not exceptional.

13 was on on my first or second ballot ever. Prop 13 is still harming CA and doing so in ways few understand. A very racist law, among other things. CA has never and will never overturn 13 because it allows for the unhinged real estate market that keeps CA booming and busting it's way along in life.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
36. Thanks (kind of) for the information. Yes, I lived there for 50 years
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:21 AM
Jun 2016

Northern and Southern, but couldn't afford to retire there...see your last paragraph. I did not know that they could reverse a Prop...kudos to them. I miss my Blue State.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
24. As I understand politics in the UK, this is how people commonly tell their reps they want
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 05:58 AM
Jun 2016

something debated. They create a petition on the gov't site and if it has enough support, it then gets debated in Parliment. This also happened months ago with a trump petition to ban him from the UK. Enough people signed the petition and so the members of Parliment had to debate it.

So maybe you need to "get over" their process of doing things? Wouldn't it be nice if our gov't worked in the same manner? Enough interest from their constituents and the House of Reps actually has to talk about it? What a breath of fresh air that would be.

Denzil_DC

(7,136 posts)
25. LOL No.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 06:39 AM
Jun 2016

Do some research about how referendums in the UK have been run in the past before spouting such nonsense.

Allowing a simple majority - potentially of ONE vote - to decide such a major change once and for all is lunacy.

Before the results were in, Nigel Farage agreed with me.

JustAnotherGen

(31,441 posts)
27. Unfortunately the people who voted to stay
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 07:11 AM
Jun 2016

Including some of the most vulnerable members of the UK - will be hurt.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
28. I wonder will YOU have a problem with democracy in November?
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 07:12 AM
Jun 2016

Will you get over it? BTW majority "wins" isn't how a decent society runs.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
30. I assume the OP believes CA should have retained Prop 8 because they voted for it once....
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 07:38 AM
Jun 2016

Basically if nations did not change their minds and reverse laws that had once been fully supported Sec Clinton would not even have the vote. The OP's claim is that all decisions are final does not really seem to hold up to the reality of history distant, history recent nor events current.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
33. They are free to sign any online petition they want but a re-vote would be suicidal for the left.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 07:52 AM
Jun 2016

It would empower the right in the long run. Just imagine the uproar from the right, if the "ELITES ignored the referendum voted on by the common people". It would be a right wing bonanza for years to come.

A Conservative prime minister and government granted the referendum and right wing populists took the ball and ran with it and won democratically.

Those who supported Remain need to accept that the right won the referendum and move on expeditiously to implement it. In reality I don't think there are any Labour or other liberal politicians who are supporting a second vote.

If things work out for the UK, then the Right was right, so to speak. If things go badly, perhaps in 10 years or a generation they can revisit this. Some of the older supporters of Leave will have died off and the younger supporters of Remain will still be around - unless they change their minds as they age.

To ignore the referendum or hold a re-vote right away, while I sympathize with the sentiment behind the ideas, would only serve to make the right even stronger.

Denzil_DC

(7,136 posts)
35. This is the problem.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:05 AM
Jun 2016

For all their squeaking about "Tyranny!" and taking this and that back, everybody's so damn scared stiff of "the right".

If the boot were on the other foot, they'd be regrouping right now, possibly rioting on the streets, conspiracy theorizing endlessly (remember the "MI5 are going to erase tour vote, so make your cross in ink&quot , and the media would be full of calls for a re-do.

And I'd have some sympathy with the idea that it hadn't all been resolved, though for different reasons. There was no thought given to the threshold for decisiveness. I hardly need say it, but Cameron's a fucking idiot. And a coward to boot.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
40. It's not quite as simple as left and right.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:56 PM
Jun 2016

Leave/remain correlates with left/right, but far from perfectly; it's much more about populist vs establishment.

It's no accident that the remain campaign was lead, passionately, by the establishment/right leader of the Conservatives, while the populist/left leader of the Labour party, while forced by his party to come out as nominally in favour of remaining, was conspicuously lukewarm and ineffective.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,222 posts)
37. Some asking for second referendum may have won, not lost.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:45 AM
Jun 2016

Now, starting to realize what they have "won", are asking, "This sucks. What's SECOND prize?"

Or, "hey, I didn't think my vote would actually count. I want a re-do".

edhopper

(32,928 posts)
38. You mean like
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:56 AM
Jun 2016

Prop 8 in California? Can't ever change, even if the people themselves decide they made a mistake? I see.

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