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kentuck

(111,111 posts)
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 08:52 AM Dec 2011

Evolution or Devolution?

Are we evolving or devolving as a society?

We look at all our advanced technology and we assume we are evolving. We are creating gadgets that make our lives more comfortable and more enjoyable. But is that the measurement that we should use?

We see the loss of the English language in a lot of places, especially with our youth. Signs and symbols and a 100-word vocabulary seem to be replacing the traditional reading and writing that advanced our society. In many instances, we seem to be getting dumber, not smarter.

We see gratuitous violence, unlike any time since the Middle Ages. We turn on the TV and we see violence disguised as sport, not meant to defeat our opponent but to hurt or to kill them. We see small children in battle rings, being cheered on by their mothers and fathers. They are rewarded for their violent efforts.

I see examples all around, everyday, where it looks like our society is breaking down, and it is depressing.

Perhaps it is just me??

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ixion

(29,528 posts)
1. Not just you...
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 09:08 AM
Dec 2011

Civilizations, Empires, Societies -- all human constructs -- rise and fall. We going though a fall phase.

Response to kentuck (Original post)

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
3. Evolution isn't "good" or "bad", or "backwards" or "forwards".
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 09:23 AM
Dec 2011

Evolution merely is the adaption to the existing environment. Whether that environment requires less intelligence, less cooperation, and more brutish behavior all around, the process only values success.

The real question is: Who should we allow to control the environment - corporations who want only mindless consumers or people who want a better world?

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
4. While I am very concerned about the effect of technology on the brain...
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 09:26 AM
Dec 2011

... the actual state of the world does not seem to support the OP's hypothesis.

Steven Pinker: Violence Is Lower Than Ever
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=steven-pinker-violence-is-lower-tha-11-10-18

What's Behind America's Falling Crime Rate
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1963761,00.html

Tests say Americans becoming more intelligent over the generations. How could that be?
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/10/29/tests-say-americans-becoming-more-intelligent-over-the-generations-how-could-that-be/

LeftishBrit

(41,219 posts)
5. I don't think so.
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 09:40 AM
Dec 2011

What is really happening is that:

(a) We are an increasingly complex society and this brings out our limitations. Humans evolved to live in societies of about 100 people, where the worst someone could do was bash someone with a rock. This means that the social abilities that were instilled by evolution are not always clearly adequate for dealing with some of the social demands of a huge and interconnected world, and one where it's possible to nuke everyone to kingdom-come.

(b) We get to learn about all the bad things in the world, from TV, newspapers, and the Internet. In the past, the bad things happened, but people from far away didn't get to know about them. Thus, we are more *aware* of the bad things, rather than more bad things happening.


'we see the loss of the English language ... the traditional reading and writing that advanced our society'. In fact, in the fairly recent past, most people *didn't* read or write. It's only in the last 150 years that reading and writing are universally expected in *some* cultures. And reading for pleasure, and regular letter-writing etc, were always minority pursuits. The sort of people, whose *only* regular form of written communication is the text-message, probably didn't engage in regular written communication *at all* 50 years ago. Indeed, I would say that the availability of the Internet probably *increases* overall reading. Many people who would not read books on a regular basis, do read material on the Internet on a regular basis. It's true that some highly bookish people may find that the Internet reduces (rarely actually *replaces*) their time spent with books; but there aren't, and never were, all that many highly bookish people.

One may argue about the value of IQ tests, but in general they indicate a significant *rise* in average performance on intelligence measures since they started being used.

'We see gratuitous violence, unlike any time since the Middle Ages'

I am not a fan of the violence in modern culture; but it has been as bad or worse throughout the past. 200 years ago, people regarded public hangings as a source of entertainment, often taking their children with them. Violence was common in Victorian times, from the street-gangs of the slum areas, to the wealthy undergraduates at elite universities who enjoyed 'ragging' (often meaning physically bullying) other students in a way that no higher education institution would tolerate nowadays.

'We turn on the TV and we see violence disguised as sport, not meant to defeat our opponent but to hurt or to kill them. We see small children in battle rings, being cheered on by their mothers and fathers. They are rewarded for their violent efforts.'

There has always been violent sport: boxing, wrestling, the more violent forms of conventional sports such as football. Children, especially perhaps boys at old-fashioned English boarding schools, were always pressed into activities where there was a thin line between sport and bullying. And that's before we get onto the still less regulated 'sports' directed at hurting animals: cock-fighting, dog-fighting, fox-hunting (still a very controversial issue in England) - all more accepted in the past than now.

In many ways, much more violence and brutality were accepted in the fairly recent past. Domestic violence in particular: it was essentially a man's right to beat his wife and kids, as long as he didn't actually endanger their lives. Doing so too often might engender some social disapproval; but the police would generally look the other way ('not our business') unless a murder was about to be committed. Men had the right to force sex on their wives. Take a guess when marital rape became a concept in British law - 1994! In schools, corporal punishment by teachers was accepted in England until the 1980s; and children's bullying of each other was often seen as 'natural' and 'a preparation for life' (the latter may have been sadly true, but not in any desirable sense!)

I don't think every change in society is a desirable one. I think that our increasingly sedentary life is unhealthy. I think that our increased job-related mobility and our resulting dispersal and the ever-increasing distance between family members and between friends, has had some good effects but a lot of bad ones. I certainly think that the move in many places from an emphasis on manufacturing and production to one on finance and banking, and the ever-increasing power of the corporations, has had lots of disastrous effects.

But I also think it's a mistake to look at the past through rose-coloured glasses: just consider all the shocking evils perpetrated by humans in the fairly recent past ranging from slavery to the Holocaust!

 

Minarchist

(36 posts)
6. In 1961 President John F. Kennedy made an inaugural speech which included the following statement:
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 10:19 AM
Dec 2011
And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

Fast forward 50 years: As a nation, we have a significant number of people who do not even ask; rather, they demand that their fellow citizens "do" for them from cradle to grave.

Looks like devolution to me...



 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
7. i see it too in so many ways. just look at the changes with internet. a boiling vat of experiment
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 10:25 AM
Dec 2011

with our youth.

it matters

not sure what the result will be, but such a huge change and shift in the childrens world is going to cause a reaction

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
9. Why would loss of English be a bad thing?
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 03:34 PM
Dec 2011

Because of the story in the Bible, what was it, the tower of babel?

 

Quartermass

(457 posts)
11. It's not technology.
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 03:45 PM
Dec 2011

It's culture that does this.

But humans will never outgrow their xenophobia and their need to be violent and put people down.

It doesn't have to be that way, of course, but most people just don't care.

And why should they?

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
12. I think it may be a good thing to see what you describe as breaking down.
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 03:55 PM
Dec 2011

and I don't necessary feel depressed since I've seen how awful our society really is. Losing the violence you're talking about can only benefit society. And since it isn't going away then maybe the failure to thrive of those companies and organizations that foment its use will be a blessing in disguise. What we need is to have something of value that replaces the violent culture we have. Right now I can't think of anything since sports seem to be overly violent also.

I think OWS has it right. Just dare to think outside the box and create what you know is right for the 99%. We all know the present system isn't doing it, nor are they interested in doing any such thing. They will simply have to collapse, and that will be a good thing.

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