The 4th Largest Economy In The World Just Generated 90 Percent Of The Power It Needs From Renewables

[applegrove]

The 4th Largest Economy In The World Just Generated 90 Percent Of The Power It Needs From Renewables

by Jeremy Deaton - Guest Contributor, at Think Progress

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/05/09/3776629/germany-renewable-generation/

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On Sunday, for a brief, shining moment, renewable power output in Germany reached 90 percent of the country’s total electricity demand.

That’s a big deal. On May 8th, at 11 a.m. local time, the total output of German solar, wind, hydropower, and biomass reached 55 gigawatts (GW), just short of the 58 GW consumed by every light bulb, washing machine, water heater and personal computer humming away on Sunday morning. See the graph below, courtesy Agora Energiewende, a German clean energy think tank. (It’s important to note that most likely, not all of that 55 GW could be used at the time it was generated due to system and grid limitations, but it’s still noteworthy that this quantity of power was produced.)

...............

Here are a few takeaways from this milestone:

Germany is the fourth-largest economy on the planet. Germany’s $3.7 trillion GDP beats the economic output of any other country in Europe or, for that matter, any U.S. state. Sunday’s spike in renewable output shows that wind and solar can keep pace with the demands of an economic powerhouse. What’s more, the growth of clean energy has tracked the growth of Germany’s economy.



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[applegrove]

1. I put it in general discussion because climate will be a big issue this election and everyone should

know what Germany has accomplished.

[riderinthestorm]

10. Climate change is only a big issue for Bernie and Jill Stein. Not Hillary or Trump nt

[Fairgo]

27. Yeah you right

This is the issue. This is the time

[A Little Weird]

2. Well-done Germany

Germany still gets most of its power from fossil fuels. Sunday’s spike resulted from a combination of reduced demand — a Sunday morning lull in power consumption. It also came from robust supply — an abundance of wind and sunshine to drive up renewable energy output. On average, renewables supply 30 percent of the country’s power. That is nonetheless a huge proportion. By comparison, the U.S. gets just 13 percent of its power from renewables.

The 90% was pretty far outside the normal range for them but I would love to see the U.S. get up to the 30% they normally produce. I don't think anyone expects it to happen overnight, but it really needs to happen soon. We should make it a national priority - like the space race.

[Person 2713]

28. Didn't Germany make this accelerated push after Fukishima to move off nuclear ? That disaster

wasn't too long ago. We really need to get together and catch up much like the space race and it won't take that long with cooperation, education, and inclusion vs Corp (which the link mentions)

If only America had the we can all do it together attitude instead of don't use my taxes for climate hoax and free dumb for fossil fuels.

[Albertoo]

3. But the cost of electricity has risen by 60% in just 6 years

And cutting on nuclear too fast has increased their dependency on the Russian and Middle East regimes.

[RichVRichV]

9. But what's the real cost?

What's the cost for US power once we account for environmental costs? How about the cost of cleanup and loss of jobs from a possible nuclear accident? How about the cost to decommission old power plants and clean up waste (especially nuclear waste)? How about the cost in resources to build new plants?


On the flip side what is Germany's cost to recycle the old solar cells and wind turbines? How about the resource cost to build new ones (new production or replacement)?



There's a lot more to power generation costs than just what we pay per kwh. It's really impossible to compare without looking at all factors. Few things we do know is the US government takes on most of the burden of environmental costs of power generation, the renewables have a lower environmental impact, and environmental concerns are becoming more and more critical.

[Albertoo]

11. I partly agree with you

Yes, the cost of renewables is a real full cost and will go down. and yes, it is the direction of the future. The problem is in the process of getting there for Germany in the here and now.

The speed of the swing toward renewables and the abandonment of nuclear is making Germany very vulnerable economically and politically:

1- the economic cost of rising electricity bills for industry hasn't 'appeared to light' yet

2- Germany is now more vulnerable to Russian or Middle Eastern blackmail

[MisterFred]

18. You're mixing issues.

Renewables make Germany LESS vulnerable to natural gas politics, not more.

It is true that abandoning nuclear makes Germany temporarily more vulnerable to natural gas politics. But not renewables themselves.

Don't tar solar and wind just because you're pushing more nuke power.

Nuclear, by the way, isn't going to help with rising electricity bills either. Not when you take into account assumed government insurance.

[lark]

24. I was in the Netherlands 2 weeks ago.

We were told that many people produced so much extra energy with their wind turbines that they sold the excess back and some people had a net negative power bill. They also said the country sold it's excess energy to Germany.

[Volaris]

16. Is that cost all front-end, though?

I'll agree it cost a few Pretty Pennies to get everything up and running, but I would expect that red line to start coming back down as less and less design, manufacturing, and installation would be needed over time?

[Albertoo]

17. I don't think so. Nuclear still made sense for Germany.

The cost of renewables won't come near nuclear for one or two decades
(in a cold country where solar is limited)

[MisterFred]

19. It already has.

If you factor hidden costs of nuclear into the mix. Especially assumed government insurance in the case of a serious disaster. What were the total economics costs of Fukushima? One half to one trillion dollars?

[Albertoo]

21. Germany is not on a tectonic fault line or a tsunami area

And it is much more serious on plant safety than Ukraine or the US.

[MisterFred]

37. Floods and Droughts

It's not generally the obvious threats that hit. And for that matter Germany DOES have a few fault areas near nuclear power plants. Overconfidence...

[Albertoo]

41. Germany DOES have a few fault areas near nuclear power plants?

[MisterFred]

42. Your map does not show fault zones.

Your map shows plate boundaries. Earthquakes happen along areas beyond just plate boundaries. For example, Utah faces significant earthquake risks. It is far from the boundaries on your map.

Now in the historical period (written records on the subject), Germany hasn't faced anything bigger than a 6.1 on the Richter scale, but pre-historic earthquakes have been bigger in Germany, and thus we must assume the potential is still there.

An abstract and an internet summary for your perusal. You can match up maps of Germany's fault zones and power plants at your leisure, but stop assuming you're right without actually knowing what's going on.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v290/n5805/abs/290399a0.html
http://www.gfz-potsdam.de/en/section/seismic-hazard-and-stress-field/topics/where-in-germany-does-the-earth-quake/seismicity-in-germany-in-global-context/

[rdking647]

4. im at about 55% of my electricity coming from the sun

its pretty much the largest system i could put on my roof without cutting down trees

[shireen]

5. do you own your solar system?

Are you with a company like Solar City or do you own your own system? If you own, do you have battery storage for use at night?

I wish i could install my own system. I'm suspicious about companies like Solar City, and not sure whether I should use them or not.

[airplaneman]

7. I think Solar City business model is awful.

I'm working on a small forward system not connected to the grid.
I will be using Aquion S30 battery pack for storage. The real secret is to live on much less power than average my goal being 50kwh per month. You can maintain quality of life and have an inexpensive reliable system. This business model of tying to the grid and ripping you off for the power you supply not to mention if the grid goes down so does your leased system.
JMHO
-Airplane

[bvar22]

25. If everyone lived as if their electricity came from Solar Panels,

we wouldn't need solar panels.

I lived on a Solar Powered houseboat in the Mississippi River at St Paul for3 years.
I had a 750 watt array on the top deck, with 12 lead acid batteries along the keel.
I loved it, but quickly became very motivated to count the watts used, and how much remained in the batteries. The best way to become an energy miser is to live on a limited power supply.

Before becoming dependent on Solar Power, I had believed that I was good about turning off unused electrical items and generally "saving" power....but it was nothing compared to the way I learned to live on that boat.

[Roy Rolling]

29. Yes. Benjamin Franklin first observed it

He said, "a watt saved is a watt earned."

Words to light by.

But seriously, there is more efficiency and return in saving power than generating more, because saving is "clean" and generating more power always requires additional equipment/facility. No?

[bvar22]

33. Something as small as this.....

....can be an act of revolution.

cost: scrap lumber and reused coated line.

Cost per use = $0.0

Energy used = $0.0

Carbon Footprint = $0.0

Pollution emitted = 0.0

Re-usability = indefinite

..and I agree, energy saved IS Clean Energy.

[rdking647]

23. My system

I own it outright. No batteries

[The Wizard]

35. Solar City is an Elon Musk venture

They offer several different options. I chose to have free installation and agreed to buy power from them at half the rate the utility company charges for 20 years. After 20 years it's mine.

[applegrove]

6. Good for you.

[womanofthehills]

12. In the summer, my system covers all my electric plus extra - but only about half in the winter

I was off grid for years, but recently connected my system to the grid as I wanted to use some electric heaters on sunless days and as I got older, I got tired of dealing with batteries . My house is also passive solar - the whole south side being mostly windows. My boyfriend and I built it and lucky for me he was really into solar. I love to watch my electric meter spin backwards!! Most of my neighbors built their own houses and are off grid (mostly earthships, straw bale, and rammed earth -however mine is frame). I live in a solar community in NM with unique creative houses and lots of artists.

I also have a solar water well pump. It pumps my water to a 1200 gallon holding tank.

[Person 2713]

31. Sounds idyllic and you folks did it all yourself - that's great

[Person 2713]

30. Excellent

[99th_Monkey]

8. If/when we elect Bernie to the WH, the USA will quickly be on that path as well. nt

[jtuck004]

15. We are already on that path. Just depends on how many people we want to kill via pollution

until the oil finally runs out.

[hunter]

13. Greenwash. German industry is powered by cheap coal.

The biggest industries pay four cents a kilowatt hour for ultra reliable coal generated electricity. Everybody else pays much more for their solar and wind assisted power, near thirty cents a kilowatt hour for residential users. But when the sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing, it's fossil fuels for them too.

Nobody ever mentions that "paying to take renewable electricity" is the same as saying solar and wind energy are bleeding money and deeply unprofitable

The grim real time statistics of German electricity production are posted here for all to see:

https://www.energy-charts.de/power.htm

The only way this world civilization will ever quit fossil fuels is to deliberately crash our high energy industrial world economy by banning fossil fuels.

Even if we fully embraced nuclear power it still wouldn't support the high energy industrial economy we now enjoy.

The actual cost in materials and labor of a pure "sustainable" energy economy ,with adequate storage and mitigations to keep business going when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing, is much higher than the high costs small power users in Germany are already paying.

A sustainable energy economy would look nothing like today's economy. Personally, as some kind of Luddite, I think that would be a good thing. I was kinda hoping the age of automobiles and airlines would be ending by now. Instead it looks like we get to look forward to increasingly horrible environmental catastrophes that may knock some sense into us. If not Nature's traditional methods of dealing with species that experience exponential growth will apply, and people will starve, or die of thirst, a multitude of diseases, or the good old human standby of war and genocide.

[MisterFred]

20. ?? Hogwash

That much juice is significant, despite the continuing presence of coal in Germany's energy mix. How much better off would the U.S. be if we were producing that same ratio of electricity?

[hunter]

22. The numbers are what they are.

And maybe worse.

It's possible more energy has been used manufacturing, installing, and maintaining photovoltaic panels than they will ever produce.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1127101293

[MisterFred]

38. Incorrect.

That study deals with older panels in Switzerland. Ok, yes, rooftop panels in Switzerland aren't great. But what does that have to do with most forms of solar power generation? Very little. Lesson: limited data points taken out of context aren't very useful.

You have a good point on Germany's coal though. I hadn't realized how much of their non-renewables was coal.

[emsimon33]

14. Another reason to vote for the candidate who does not represent the fossil fuel industry

[oldandhappy]

26. thank you, thank you!!

[Yavin4]

32. Germany rocks!

Maybe the best overall country on the planet.

[The Wizard]

34. Were it not for the fascists

we could have clean energy, affordable health care and affordable college.

[applegrove]

36. +1

[Uncle Joe]

39. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, applegrove.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

40. We can't lose sight of the real goal

and that is to keep the earth sustainable and all life on it.