Life in a "At will" employment state - having to ask if you're fired

[underpants]

Last edited Sat Apr 9, 2016, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

This happened yesterday to someone I know - not me.

They worked in a cafeteria. The contract changed hands at the end of 2015. New management kept a few people who had been working there - actually asking one of the people in this story to apply (she hadn't) and upped her pay against the new job she already had accepted.

So, yesterday,she was told that her position had been eliminated but don't worry they won't contest her unemployment claim.
Two other people were called into the office and told that their positions were fine.
The manager (1 of the hold overs) got wind of this and said out loud, "Gee, she (the boss) didn't say that to me".

He went to the boss's office to ask, basically, Am I fired? The answer was YES.
....but don't worry they aren't going to contest his unemployment claim.

[tammywammy]

1. That's an example of "at will" employment not a right to work issue.

[underpants]

2. Okay yes. Thank you.

The two tend to be used interchangeably and shouldn't.

[tammywammy]

3. No, they shouldn't.

The vast majority of workers are at-will - working without an employment contract. Montana, I believe, is the only state that's not at-will. Other states have mandatory termination pay. In general, without an employment contract you can quit anytime and be terminated anytime (with the major exception being federally or state protected discrimination or retaliation).

[MurrayDelph]

4. Seventeen years ago, I was laid off from a large computer training organization

a week after being reassured by the manager that jobs were safe. Instead, I was pulled away from my sister's deathbed in Panorama City to drive to Costa Mesa (two hours minimum each way), where I reminded the manager of our conversation a week earlier (which she denied making), in order to sign some papers promising not to sue in order to get a severance package where they shorted my vacation and final business expenses (which bounced the first time I tried to cash it).

Two months later, in my new computer job, I started receiving brochures from that same training company. For the next twelve years until I retired, every time anyone in my office received a catalog from them, they were told the story of my history with the company, and threw out the catalog.

Six months after this incident, my new bosses sent me to a conference where this company had a booth. When the reps at the booth expressed surprise that I had heard of them, I told them the whole history of the company, ending with my telling my final history with the company, reminding them that when I stopped being an employee I became part of their customer base and my experience is the kind of word of mouth that "you just can't buy."

[underpants]

5. Yeah my last job

Firings were beyond routine. I stated there as the newest of about 30 employees. 4 years later I was 10th In time there and we had about 50 employees. There were 2 buildings and we weren't allowed into the other building without previous clearance from two supervisors - we had to check the phone system weekly to figure out who was no longer there. They were really good at firing people. I went to the bathroom and an office mate of mine (4 people in a 15x15 room) was cleared out by the time I got back. Out of the building - his desk cleared. I never saw him again other than in Facebook.

This is why I very stealthily got another job 2 1/2 years ago. They had no idea I was looking or that I was doing interviews.

[Brickbat]

6. "At will employment" is U.S. law, not state. The solution is a collectively bargained contract.

There's also a (non-legal) difference between being fired (for cause) and laid off (as in downsizing). Fired for cause means no unemployment. Being laid off, it depends.

[underpants]

7. Not in Virginia

You can still collect unemployment if you are fired here

[Brickbat]

8. Not if you were terminated for misconduct.

[underpants]

9. That's true

I've rarely seen a firing here for that.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

11. Why would someone be fired

if not for misconduct?

[bemildred]

12. Not being up to the job is the usual reason. nt

[underpants]

13. No reason needed

That was really the point of my OP.

I've heard that people were fired in organizations that I've worked in for:
Didn't fit
Management decision
Different direction
Performance

See most post above - I worked at a charity that fired people as a matter of crowd control or intimidation.

I, personally, have been fired 3 times.
The first was because they only hired me for the tax season. No problem with performance....other than that I made throwing error that cost the firm a softball game the night before.
2nd- government - 2 weeks before my 1 year probationary period ended. They hired someone's nephew.
Last - they claimed I resigned but the fired me.

The point is that being fired is a CONSTANT concern for many people given some state laws. It never leaves your mind but having to ask is a bit much.

[GreenEyedLefty]

14. I was fired for "not being a good fit."

It was so humiliating. I had never been fired in my life, ever.

In retrospect they did me a huge favor. And in future interviews, most employers were nonplussed by this.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

10. Correct

If fired for misconduct related to the job, Virginia doesn't pay unemployment.