WHOA! Virginia will no longer recognize concealed carry permits from 25 states that have reciprocity

[kpete]

WHOA! Virginia will no longer recognize concealed carry permits from 25 states that have reciprocity agreements http://wapo.st/1QVH2FD " (behind firewall)


Herring said severing the out-of-state agreements can prevent people who may be dangerous or irresponsible from carrying a concealed weapon.

“To me, this is a commonsense step that can help make Virginians and our law enforcement officers safer by ensuring that Virginia’s laws on who can and cannot carry a concealed handgun are applied evenly, consistently, and fairly,” he said in a statement provided to The Washington Post.

The State Police superintendent accepted Herring’s recommendation to sever agreements with those states, effective Feb. 1, according to Herring’s office.

The states are: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

Agreements will remain with West Virginia, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas and Utah.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/12/22/virgina-to-drop-long-held-concealed-carry-reciprocity-agreements-with-other-states-n2096229

[countingbluecars]

1. What a diffence having Democrats

in office makes!

[ileus]

2. Hopefully other state will continue to recognize my VA CHP.

Sad to see Virginia taking a step backwards...

http://bci.utah.gov/


Time to get the Utah permit to pick up Virginias slack.

[Blue_Tires]

11. If it's any consolation to you...

The commonwealth will almost certainly switch to the GOP in the next gubernatorial race (because we love alternating for some reason), and this policy will be rescinded...

[FSogol]

21. Doubtful. Ralph Northam is extremly popular and is way ahead in fundraising. The GOP will run

the boring loser, Ed Gillespie. I love watching Ed lose elections....

[GeorgeGist]

3. Hopefully more states will follow VA lead.

[dumbcat]

4. I wonder why they are keeping the agreement

with the five states remaining? What makes them special?

[aksptth]

7. Don't mess with Texas!

Could be one of two things. The allowed cases of reciprocity could be because of a formal written agreement. And the other states might have been more of a curtesy type of thing.

The other possibility is the States that are still recognized more effectively manage their CCW permitting process. Some places are pretty much fill out an application and bam get your permit. And other places are pretty stringent about doing background investigations before issuing the permit.

[tblue37]

23. Example: in KS one no longer even needs a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

Also, many years ago, being BLIND was stricken from the list of reasons to prevent someone from carrying in KS. Virginia is being smart about which states to exclude.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Those states have requirements equal to, or greater than, Virginia

Wise move on the part of Virginia.

[FSogol]

22. Their gun laws are similar to VA's laws.

The ones denied have less stringent requirements.

[jberryhill]

27. Utah is mostly white!

Lol

[2naSalit]

36. Yes, however,

they offer CC permits to folks in other states! Up here in Montana I see a CC permit event offering Utah permits posted at the USPS about once every few months. Soooo...?

[Skittles]

37. they recognize the difference between gun owners and gun humpers

[TeddyR]

5. Simply means

You have to satisfy Virginia's concealed carry requirements. I don't see this as a bad thing.

[aksptth]

6. Doesn't help the issue and makes everything more complicated

There needs to be a uniform standard that is applied equally across the board. My preference would be a high standard which includes a well chosen curriculum of training. It is a fact of life that police assistance when lives are at stake is in the best of circumstances 5 minutes away. Just about every active shooter or other violent crime are long done and over with by the time police arrive.

I know many just plain do not like guns. But Concealed Carry permit holders are the most law abiding citizens around. These are not the people that are committing violent crimes and terrorizing their fellow citizens.

My personal opinion is that society is safer when there are well trained, level headed, law abiding citizens sprinkled around with the means to render assistance when lives are endangered.

My best case scenario is that we as a society stop putzing around with these gun laws. We need to embrace the Second Amendment and implement it as it was originally intended. A managed and trained militia of upstanding citizens. Militia is kind of an archaic term and today I think we could call it a Police Auxiliary.

I believe where we lost our way in this issue is in losing the concept of a society based militia (or whatever you want to call it). The dangerous piece of the equation is when we started allowing people to amass weapons in isolation. Allowing gun ownership in isolation forgoes the opportunity for society to police itself and identify individuals not balanced enough to responsibly own arms.

[Logical]

19. Great post. I 100% agree with you. nt

[Hoyt]

28. Don't tuck a gun in your pants to go to Chuck E Cheese, etc., and you don't have to keep up

with carry laws, what to tell police if you pull a Zimmerman or David Michael Keene, what loads bounce all around and destroy internal organs, etc.

Do you guys ever think of the alternative to toting.

[Matrosov]

8. Other Democratic states should follow

Here is how laws have changed for the worse since the 1980s



Even though it is not quite the same thing as Virginia going back to May Issue or, better yet, switching to No Issue, at least it's a step in the right direction.

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. "Here is how laws have changed for the worse since the 1980s" Violent crime declined...

...over the last twenty years, so wherein lies the problem?

[Matrosov]

12. The gun culture is the problem

I'm not going to argue that the average concealed carry holder is responsible for most of the +30k annual gun deaths. However, matters like concealed carry, and the Holy Grail of the RKBA crowd, unrestricted open carry, have helped to strengthen the gun culture over the past thirty years.

It's this gun culture that's responsible for those +30k annual gun deaths, for the ease with which the average person can purchase a lethal weapon, and for the idea that somehow the best way to combat gun violence is... with more guns! It's also this gun culture that, after every mass shooting, has many gun owners clutching their firearms and in their best Golem impression screaming, "My precious!"

That's why I'm supporting this. Not because I honestly think making life difficult for the average concealed carry is really going to have a drastic effect on those +30k annual guns deaths, but because it's a step in the right direction toward combating that gun culture.

[sweetapogee]

13. what are your thoughts

on the questions asked on ATF form 4473 in particular 1b-1i and especially 1e?

[Matrosov]

14. Not following..

I'll admit, I had to look up the details on form 4473, never having filled it out myself. But Section 1 only seems to refer to your last, first, and middle name.

My apologies for not being able to answer your question then. Was I looking at the right form?

[sweetapogee]

15. right me too...

I misspoke, Ha Ha! Sections 11b-11i. In particular 11e. Sorry I didn't mean to waste your time, my bad!

I was just looking for your well educated thoughts but since you are not conversant with the NICS system never mind.

[Matrosov]

17. I have mixed feelings

I do know the outcome of a NICS check is either pass, deny, or delay.

However, I'm not sure how thorough the check is and how much information asked in those questions they actually have on you.

I guess with 11e, people will generally answer No, and the FBI has no way of verifying that, unless you have a prior conviction for the sale or possession of an unlawful substance.

[sweetapogee]

18. I have to admit

it's good that you know an awful lot about the gunz culture in general and are able to predict the behavior of millions of americans who the FBI don't seem to have any reason to deny a FFL transfer.

Now that I think on it, better I guess to be safe and just assume that all those trigger happy hot headed gunners are just an argument away for having their picture on the front page of the newspaper.

[Matrosov]

20. I live around gun nuts

What's the difference between .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO? Feel free to ask me. I don't even own a firearm, and yet gun ownership around here is such, that I can't help but learn things by walking outside, and I could tell you that firing a 5.56 NATO bullet in a rifle chambered for .223 Remington can be dangerous, but not the other way around.

From what I understand, the 5.56 NATO round will create a higher pressure, which the .223 Remginton rifle might not be able to handle.

But this kind of 'education' I receive on a daily basis has only served to increase my dislike and distrust of our gun culture, not the other way around.

I'll admit, many of those responsible for the gun murders in this country didn't obtain their weapons from a FFL and didn't undergo a NICS check. That's also why I think that 'increased background checks' aren't going to make much of a difference. On the other hand, the idea that more guns will somehow decrease this gun violence is as insane as telling someone with lung cancer that they should smoke more, in the hope that their cancer goes away from developing cancer of its own.

[sweetapogee]

30. me too

gunz-a-plenty around here.

I normally avoid this topic but it seems like the topic is not going away anytime soon so best to educate myself.

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. At least you are honest in expressing your desire for culture war, and I thank you for that

Most of those who feel as you do dissemble about their true motives

You do realize, don't you, that your quest is most likely futile?

[melm00se]

16. this is purely a political move not for the reasons espoused by the mr. Herring

Why?

Let's compare the requirements between VA and NC.

Both states require that you be 21 years or older (mirroring federal law)
Both require an approved safety course
Both provide fingerprints for the required background check

VA requirements
NC requirements

[Major Nikon]

25. Concealed carry was never anything more than a political move to begin with

It was simply a gift to paranoid gun nuts who can't bear the thought of leaving home without precious. It never had any basis in need or reality.

[roamer65]

24. Vermont has been an unrestricted state for a long time.

I have no problem with unrestricted carry by people who have passed meaningful background checks.

What I do have a problem with is the nearly unrestricted purchase of firearms and ammunition.

...and there should be no reciprocity between the states. Interstate is a federal issue.

[valerief]

26. States to not vacation in due to concealed carry:

Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

(As noted in the OP.)

[sweetapogee]

29. you left one out

The Great State of Vermont.

[valerief]

31. Oh, I didn't see it in the OP. Guess it doesn't have a reciprocity agreement. nt

[sweetapogee]

32. doesn't

need one.

[friendly_iconoclast]

34. Massachusetts has higher rates of murder and violent crime than Vermont:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-5


Then again, this may not matter as much as that Vermont "encourages gun culture"

[Turbineguy]

35. Any gun control is bad news.

Next year I start my new career in the funeral industry. I was hoping to do extremely well.

[virginia mountainman]

38. As a Virginian, I can attest, that turnout will be record setting in November..

Never seen the general public stirred up like this, I have yet to see ANYONE in support of this.

This affects lots and lots of people, people gave them a "pass" because talking gun control was always with a "wink wink", now the stark reality is setting in, even with me.

Simply stating the facts.