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bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 09:38 PM Oct 2015

"Zero Tolerance" policies in the schools are bullshit

Zero Tolerance does not permit a student who is being violently assaulted to defend himself; he just has to let himself get beat up, lest he be suspended. If he's lucky, maybe a teacher or administrator will be around at the right time to stop the
assault. If not, well, he just has to ride the beating out.

And we have some DUers who seem to favor that policy. Unbelievable.

To not allow a child being bullied to defend himself while being physically attacked may well be a violation of fundamental human rights.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"Zero Tolerance" policies in the schools are bullshit (Original Post) bluestateguy Oct 2015 OP
Kick bluestateguy Oct 2015 #1
kick bluestateguy Oct 2015 #2
I agree, but...... 1939 Oct 2015 #3
kick bluestateguy Oct 2015 #4
K&R LostOne4Ever Oct 2015 #5
kick bluestateguy Oct 2015 #6
kick bluestateguy Oct 2015 #7
Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #8
My children will defend themselves if necessary Ex Lurker Oct 2015 #9
Many years ago my oldest brother was being bullied on Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #10
People living under zero tolerance policies haele Oct 2015 #11
kick bluestateguy Oct 2015 #12
kick bluestateguy Nov 2015 #13
Kick bluestateguy Nov 2015 #14
Not only bullshit, they're completely unconstitutional. Initech Nov 2015 #15
And I'm surprised that this thread keeps dropping like a lead balloon bluestateguy Nov 2015 #16
I can guarantee that if I was a victim of one... Initech Nov 2015 #20
They're also racist. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #17
Excellent points bluestateguy Nov 2015 #18
Zero Tolerance also punishes assault victims meow2u3 Nov 2015 #19
Out of curiosity... Orrex Nov 2015 #23
Yes he was meow2u3 Nov 2015 #25
That's shitty. Orrex Nov 2015 #26
Defend yourself then deal with the paperwork later NightWatcher Nov 2015 #21
Why would you punish your child that way? Orrex Nov 2015 #22
"Zero Tolerance" anything is ALWAYS BS annabanana Nov 2015 #24
Kick. Nt katsy Nov 2015 #27
Zero Tolerance" policies in ANYWHERE are bullshit. N/T beevul Nov 2015 #28
Kick bluestateguy Nov 2015 #29
K & R... Wounded Bear Nov 2015 #30
Kick bluestateguy Nov 2015 #31
Kick bluestateguy Nov 2015 #32

1939

(1,683 posts)
3. I agree, but......
Wed Oct 28, 2015, 12:06 PM
Oct 2015

When the teacher or administrator arrives at the fight, then he has to try and referee as to who was at fault, who started it, who said what to who, etc..

LostOne4Ever

(9,311 posts)
5. K&R
Wed Oct 28, 2015, 10:48 PM
Oct 2015

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=indigo]All zero tolerance policies do is provide cover for the negative consequense of not thinking.

And that is what all zero tolerance policies do, encourage institutions to not think. They never have to think about context, about nuance, or even the consequences.

It is a policy for the brainless by the heartless![/font]

Response to bluestateguy (Original post)

Ex Lurker

(3,822 posts)
9. My children will defend themselves if necessary
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:43 AM
Oct 2015

We'll sort what happens next after the dust is clear and they're safe, and we'll involve the lawyers if need be. I will say that it's often not one on one any more. It used to be considered cowardly for multiple assailants to jump one victim. Not any more. So self defense is not always going to work. Movie fight scenes notwithstanding, even a trained martial artist is going to have trouble against three or more attackers.

Snobblevitch

(1,958 posts)
10. Many years ago my oldest brother was being bullied on
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:08 AM
Oct 2015

the school bus on the way home in the afternoon.


My brother was big for his age (and ironically a target foy older bullies). Anyway, our dad told him to hit the bully on his nose. My brother was worried that would get him kicked off the school bus. (This was many years ago.)

Anyway, my brother finally had enough. He smacked the bully on his nose. There was blood. They were both evicted off the school bus. The next day, the school bus driver thanked my brother for what he did.

My brother waited until it was two blocks to our stop before he threw that punch. He's always been a pretty smart guy.

haele

(12,726 posts)
11. People living under zero tolerance policies
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:16 AM
Oct 2015

Are either criminals or hypocrites who haven't been caught under their own policies yet.
Everyone
will end up being a criminal under zero tolerance rules.

That what happens to them depends on whether or not they they hsve the means to buy their way out of being convicted is a conversation people should also be having about "zero tolerance".

People who support zero tolerance ether have more money than brains, or think the rules somehow won't apply to them or their loved ones.

Haele

Initech

(100,217 posts)
15. Not only bullshit, they're completely unconstitutional.
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:24 PM
Nov 2015

I'm quite frankly surprised that they haven't been challenged in SCOTUS yet.

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
16. And I'm surprised that this thread keeps dropping like a lead balloon
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:25 PM
Nov 2015

Some people here really overdo it with the pacifist bullshit.

Initech

(100,217 posts)
20. I can guarantee that if I was a victim of one...
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 03:13 PM
Nov 2015

Or if I had a kid that was one, you can definitely bet that I'd have lawyers on the school faster than you can blink!

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
17. They're also racist.
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:30 PM
Nov 2015

Quick questions:

What groups get hit with the full penalties of zero-tolerance most often?

What groups manage to always have a blind eye turned to them when they break the rules, thus getting away scott-free?

Three guesses and the first two don't count.

So you have the classic zero-tolerance administrative shit-move: Turn a blind eye when a minority kid gets bullied, even beaten, but expel him when he finally gets sick of it and reacts even slightly against his bullies.

They make racist rule-enforcement and the school-to-prison pipeline even worse, because they remove all proportionality from the discipline process, so administrators can cower behind the rules when they have to justify why they're removing "undesirables" from their schools.

meow2u3

(24,793 posts)
19. Zero Tolerance also punishes assault victims
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 03:04 PM
Nov 2015

even when they didn't defend themselves.

My roomie's son was suspended from school after some kid attacked him from behind. Not only did he do nothing to provoke the attack, he never even tried to fight back. To make matters worse, the kid who attacked him wasn't suspended. The excuse: he was on probation and a suspension would have put him in juvie.

It didn't help that the principal had it in for my roomie's twin sons. They got it in the neck for no reason.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
23. Out of curiosity...
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 03:58 PM
Nov 2015

Was your roomie's son suspended because he was accused of fighting, even though he was the victim?

I saw shit like that even in my high school days, long before Zero Tolerance was a thing. The assailant would kick or punch or push the victim, and after the fact it was claimed that it takes two to tango.

So the attacker wins twice: gets to hit the victim and gets the victim suspended

And the victim loses twice: gets hit and gets suspended for getting hit


Funny ol' world.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
26. That's shitty.
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 04:12 PM
Nov 2015

[font color="white"]XXX[/font]
[font color="white"]XXXXXX[/font]
[font color="white"]XXXXXXXXX[/font]
[font color="white"]XXXXXXXXXXXX[/font]

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
21. Defend yourself then deal with the paperwork later
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 03:18 PM
Nov 2015

If my kid defends herself and gets sent home for 3 days, we'll go to Disney World in that time.

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
24. "Zero Tolerance" anything is ALWAYS BS
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 03:59 PM
Nov 2015

It feeds into the pernicious "good vs evil" narrative that is so dear to authoritarian hearts. It allows for no explanation, or even agreed upon definitions.

I despair of those who cannot see anything but black or white

Wounded Bear

(58,872 posts)
30. K & R...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 01:23 PM
Nov 2015

Agree with most of the sentiment here.

Zero tolerance is cover for lazy authoritarians, and like most such policies is subject to, shall we say, mixed levels of enforcement.

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