Welcome to the world's nicest prison.

[Johnny Rico]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/europe/norway-prison-bastoy-nicest/index.html?iref=allsearch

Jan Petter Vala, who is serving a prison sentence for murder, has hands the size of dinner plates and shoulders like those of an ox. In an alcoholic rage, he used his brutish strength to strangle his girlfriend to death a few years ago. On a recent Thursday, however, at this summer-camp-like island prison in southern Norway, where convicts hold keys to their rooms and there are no armed guards or fences, Vala used those same enormous hands to help bring life into the world. The 42-year-old murderer stood watch while an oversize cow gave birth to a wobbly, long-legged, brown-and-white calf. He cried as the baby was born, he said, and wiped slime off of the newborn's face so she could gulp her first breath. Afterward, Vala called his own mother to share the good news. "I told my family that I'm going to be a dad," he said, beaming with pride.

This is exactly the type of dramatic turnabout -- enraged killer to gentle-giant midwife -- that corrections officials in Norway hope to create with this controversial, one-of-a-kind prison, arguably the cushiest the world has to offer. Founded in 1982, Bastoy Prison is located on a lush, 1-square-mile island of pine trees and rocky coasts, with views of the ocean that are postcard-worthy. It feels more like a resort than jail, and prisoners here enjoy freedoms that would be unthinkable elsewhere. It's the holiday version of Alcatraz.

There's a beach where prisoners sunbathe in the summer, plenty of good fishing spots, a sauna and tennis courts. Horses roam gravel roads. Some of the 115 prisoners here -- all men and serving time for murder, rape and trafficking heroin, among other crimes -- stay in wooden cottages, painted cheery red. They come and go as they please. Others live in "The Big House," a white mansion on a hill that, on the inside, looks like a college dorm. A chicken lives in the basement, a guard said, and provides eggs for the inmates.

When you ask the cook what's for dinner, he offers up menu choices like "fish balls with white sauce, with shrimps" and "everything from chicken con carne to salmon." Plenty of people would pay to vacation in a place like this.

(more at link)

The main point I get out of the article is that Jan Petter Vala is enjoying sunbathing, fishing, tennis, fish balls with white sauce, and talking with his family...while his girlfriend can't do any of these things.

Because he strangled her to death. Here's a picture of the murderer:

[struggle4progress]

1. We've discussed this prison with some regularity here at DU

There are many different possible notions for a criminal justice system

Is it supposed to exact revenge, instead of the victim's family exacting revenge?
Is it supposed to confine and isolate dangerous persons, to protect society from them?
Is it supposed to re-educate and "correct" offenders, as the "Correctional Institutes" seem to promise?
Is it supposed to lead penitent offenders to penance, as the "Penitentiary" seems to promise?

[backscatter712]

4. The way I see it, prisons have three purposes.

1. Punishment (or as you put it, revenge.)
2. Rehabilitation (or correction/penance) - though ideally extended to the idea of treating criminals as patients and trying to treat the illness that caused them to commit crimes.
3. Prevention - lock them up to physically prevent them from harming everyone else.

Sadly, rehabilitation seems to keep losing out in favor of punishment in the U.S., and even prevention takes a back seat in that often, even convicted murderers will spend just a few years in a "gladiator school" then be dumped back on the streets learning little except how to be a better criminal.

[struggle4progress]

7. What you lump under "punishment" involves many different theories, I think:

The scapegoat theory: "Someone (and I care not who) must suffer for this horrid crime"
This theory is actually applied more often in practice than you may realize

The moral debt theory: "Whoever did this should suffer appropriately to pay off the incurred moral debt"
The difference, between this and the scapegoap theory, is: the scapegoat theory does not require that the person who suffers be the actual perp

The deterrence theory: "Punishing someone for this crime will deter other rational persons from such crimes"
The deterrence theory assumes the public will believe that the guilty party suffers punishment, but does not require that the guilty party suffers punishment

The anti-bloodfeud state-craft theory: "It is better that the punishment, right or wrong, come from the hands of the state than that it come from private hands"

[XemaSab]

2. If you start from the standpoint that anyone can be redeemed

then what does a criminal justice system look like?

If the goal is to make prisoners penitent not for their own sorry lives but for the lives they ruined then what does a criminal justice system look like?

Neither of these would look anything like the US, I would wager.

[unblock]

3. i like that they're experimenting with alternatives to the dump-all-manner-of-abuse-on-them model.

the article makes it sound like they've gone overboard; but certainly the dominant model of highly restrictive, disrespectful, abusive and even criminal treatment of prisoners leaves much to be desired.

our current systems and attitudes are way overly obsessed with a nearly useless concept of "desert", as in, the prisoner "deserves" to be given a hard time and abuse and so on.

i care about 4 things:

1) special deterrence (the prisoner shouldn't commit future crimes)
2) general deterrence (other people shouldn't commit future crimes)
3) just compensation (where feasible, victims should be made whole)
4) safety for prisoners, guards, and the people on the outside.

the prisoner getting what he "deserves" is not on the list. that's for god to sort out, if you believe in such things.

in this case, it sounds like it's working pretty well, though (2) might become more of a concern if this were the common result. perhaps right now this prison works well because most violent criminals don't figure they'll end up at a place like this. if it became common knowledge that all violent prisoners would end up here, that might change people's behavior for the worse.

[maggiesfarmer]

6. I like this approach.

I think another criteria to consider (weighting of the criteria is another topic) is cost, although you could claim that's part of #4. we have no cost information but beachfront land, sauna's and staff to train prisoners would not be insignificant.

I'm fully supportive of trying something different, especially when the current model isn't working.

[struggle4progress]

8. Then, again, it's Norwegian beachfront, which may not command the high prices

of Caribbean or Mediterranean beachfront

[unblock]

17. beachfront is still beachfront... more relevant perhaps is that norway has tons of oil money

and not a huge number of people to share it with.

[cali]

5. you didn't get that they have a remarkably low

recidivism rate? Isn't that a plus for society?

[Johnny Rico]

9. It is a plus for society, but that's not the only factor to consider.

Frankly, I'd like a bit (well, a lot) more punishment. I want them to pay for their crimes.

Spending 10 years in a resort like this isn't nearly enough punishment enough for murder. I don't particularly want to rehabilitate murderers, I want them to spend the rest of their life in a hole.

Or we can execute them. Either one works for me.

[Fumesucker]

11. Good to know that you think our justice system is infallible..

And that no one who is innocent is ever convicted of a serious crime..

[Johnny Rico]

12. When did I assert either of those statements? Documentation, please.

[Fumesucker]

13. You want punishment for people convicted of crimes, not rehabilitation..

If you had any qualms about the perfection of our justice system you would not be so quick to wish for those convicted to be harshly punished.

[Johnny Rico]

16. Anyone who thinks the justice system is perfectible is a naive foolish dreamer.

Since it's not perfectible, all we can do is try to make it as just as reasonably possible.

[CreekDog]

14. More punishment? In CA we spend more on them than our universities!

our universities are the envy of the world.

just yikes.

there was a time when our universities were funded better than our prisons, and that was California's heyday.

now, when prisons get more than universities? not so much. and it's not building our future to do it this way.

[Johnny Rico]

15. More punishment for *real* criminals, yes. Legalize all drugs.

That would eliminate a rather substantial prison population, yes? This frees up funds for punishment of real (violent) criminals.

[unblock]

18. this is exactly the kind of "desert" obsession i was referring to in post #3.

to whatever extent that punishment might be an effective means to a worthwhile end, such as deterrence, it may have some merit. but only to the extent that it actually works as a deterrent.

making them "pay" purely to satisfy some sort of deep-seated revenge lust in the soul of some people is a terrible basis for public policy.

oh, and dark side it leads to, mm.

[cali]

21. yeah, vengeance works so well. It's clear you don't give a flying fuck

about victims, you just want to hate and seek stupid retribution.

[backscatter712]

22. The problem with punishment is that it just doesn't work.

If it did, you'd think that the War on Drugs would be wildly successful, or that Texas would have the lowest murder rate in the country.

But the fact is that punishment gives the punisher a nice emotional buzz, like the one you were having when you wrote that post. Punishing a son-of-a-bitch feels GOOD! It makes you feel POWERFUL!, but aside from that, does nothing to deter crime.

Since we're imprisoning them, and since most of them are not serving life sentences, you'd think society would want these people to be able to function in a way that isn't destructive and antisocial, which implies rehabilitation. That means we would need prisons that are not gladiator schools. If rehabilitation isn't something you're willing to invest in, then the alternative is to give almost every prisoner a life sentence to protect the public.

[Nikia]

23. My cousin, in his early 20's, was hit driving a moped by a small commercial truck

The police determined that no crime had been committed even though the truck driver admitted that he probably could have avoided hitting my cousin. My cousin is dead. My aunt lost her only child. The truck driver goes on with his life.
Does it make any difference if it was an accident rather than the truck driver maliciously running down my cousin? The result for my cousin and family would be the same.
I understand the point about whether having too nice of a prison does not make crime as much of a deterent for certain types of people, namely those who don't have people they will miss or a very good life outside of prison. Having lost a family member in an "accident" though, I don't know if whether the perpetrator suffers a lot really helps anything.

[lunatica]

10. On the other hand there's Joe Arpaio's prison example

He treats his prisoners so badly that they will not only never be rehabilitated, but they'll be far angrier and meaner and vengeful. And their victims won't be coming back to life either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. From the perspective of society what do you think is more cost effective

This, and no repeat offender...or our prison system with a high recidivism rate?

At one time Americans understood this idea of reform. For god sakes, we started that movement. This is the logical end. It has a very low rate of repeat offenders, by the way.

Somewhere in the 1970s we decided prison's only role was punishment and giving harsher and harsher sentences...well the end result of that is one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, with one of the highest repeat offenders as well.

[Initech]

20. "If we get caught we're not going to white collar resort prison...."

[white_wolf]

24. Good for Norway.

This is how prison should be, places to rehabilitate criminals and make them functioning members of society. Norway's succeeds in that regard. Sure, it doesn't satisfy some people's desire for revenge, but I really don't care, it benefit society far more to have a successful rehabilitation rate than it does to satisfy someone's need for vengeance.

[jmowreader]

25. They probably have no prison riots in this place

And as said upthread, they've got almost no recidivism.

Contrast that with somewhere like the Idaho Gladiator School (the first privatized prison in Idaho, and the reason there will never be a second privatized prison in Idaho), where they should just put the prisoners' names on brass plaques and screw them to the wall because the recidivism rate there is in the high 80s.