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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGWB stole the 2000 election, Ignored 911 warnings and then used 911 to attack Iraq
Where would we be today if Al Gore was in the Whitehouse during those years? If Al Gore was making policy about climate change instead of documentaries about climate change.
The first 3 minutes of this film re-opened the wound. It is incredible to think that Fox News, owned by the Saudis and that Australian fascist, had the power to do this much damage to America but those 8 years of hell are all the evidence we should need:
olddots
(10,237 posts)but it sure would be nice if we could go foward through this reign of military corporate media facism .
LeftinOH
(5,359 posts)been much more focused on the ongoing threats of al-Qaeda and potential attacks on the US. It's *just* possible that under his leadership, the intelligence community would have interrupted the 9/11 plans before they could happen.
The Bush administration was mostly concerned with the usual petty conservative bullshit like "partial-birth abortion", "Faith-based initiatives", etc.
We'll never know.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)the next day that Al Gore won, then 9/11 happened and no one cared. Coincidence?
brush
(53,968 posts)The election and recount was in 2000, 9/11 happened in 2001.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)negated democracy.
That wasn't clear.
At that point, nearly nine months into the term, there wasn't going to be a "do over" anyway.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)It started when Jeb stole the election for his brother.
Then the Supremes appointed Dubya president.
Then they arranged everything that happened on 9/11
The Saudis who "attacked" were, and always have been US allies.
They helped.
Just another conspiracy, swept under the rug.
egduj
(807 posts)Or is he just another rube?
I have had PTSD ever since, knowing that our government could do something like that and get away with it so easily.
Then to have them go on and kill millions of innocent people in Iraq.
And now, to have these 'people' still on the 'news' as if they are heroic.
I don't know how to get over it unless and until we have some accountability.
Will we ever have any accountability?
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)And time marches on leaving us with the knowledge of skull duggery and the label of nutcase. It's a heavy bag of truth to carry.
displacedtexan
(15,696 posts)I think that 9/11 was Bin Laden's (or the Saudis') response to an oil deal with BushCo gone bad. Remember that Dubya ran and hid in a hole after the attack. Were it an inside job, there would have been numerous photo ops for him in the White House, trying to look engaged.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)If it was not an inside job, than how come the bin Laden family who was in the US was scooped up, and flown out of the US on 9/12?
How did building 7 come down without anything hitting it. You know, the building with all the records in it that were destroyed without backup?
Why didn't Bush and Cheney swear under oath to the 9/11 commission?
The new owner of the WTC had a massive asbestos abatement after he had taken ownership of the buildings. Oh, and he was a Bush donor in the election.
Why did the Project for a New American Century call for a "New Pearl Harbor," in order to secure oil resources of the Middle East?
Why did Cheney, order the planes not shot down?
Why were there no black boxes recovered?
All this and more tell me that this was a setup.
Bush looked like the stupid ass he always was during the whole thing. Clearly, Bush was not in charge, Cheney was in charge. Bush was a puppet!
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)W was just the figurehead. They might have wanted him out of the loop as much as possible, seems likely to me.
Mike Nelson
(9,980 posts)Hillary deleted her emails!
Trump said something awful!
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)or was that something else?
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)The 2004 Election: Analyses, Summaries, Charts, and Spreadsheets
The 2004 Ohio Presidential Election: Cuyahoga County Analysis
How Kerry Votes Were Switched To Bush Votes
"... we find that there were massive and unprecedented voter irregularities
and anomalies in Ohio. In many cases these irregularities were caused by
intentional misconduct and illegal behavior...."
Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio
Status Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff, Jan. 2005.
In a subset of 166,953 votes, one of every 34 Ohio voters, the Kerry-Bush margin
shifts six percent when the population is sorted by outcomes of wrong-precinct voting.
Preface
Simply put, Ohio votes were NOT all counted as cast. Many votes were miscounted, and Kerry votes were counted for Bush. Numerous questions have been raised about the fairness of the 2004 Presidential election in the United States of America (US). In this study I focus on one election issue, punch card cross-votinghow votes cast one way were counted other than as intended, as a vote for a different candidate or option. ...............
staggerleem
(469 posts)... was tabulated on a server in Kentucky, owned by Karl Rove. The intent was to do the same in 2012, but Anonymous hacked Karl's machine, which explains Rove's incredulous "No, no, wait, don't call it YET!" performance that night. The guy who installed and ran the server for Rove died shortly after, when his private plane crashed. Draw your own conclusions on that score.
BTW - that server also handled ALL White House e-mail for the first term of Dubya's administration - and about 5,000 messages from the time of the re-election campaign were somehow "lost" - from a PRIVATE server handling GOVERNMENT e-mails. Yeah, but Hillary and HER server are what we have to be worried about, right?
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)Was Vince Foster a Passenger in that plane, too?
Our conspiracies, are OK, theirs are not worth thinking about?
How about they are both ridiculous.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Or, are you just terribly misinformed by the effectiveness of the disinformation campaign covering up the crime?
Maybe you haven't read DU archives. Maybe you are unfamiliar with the concept of doing research. If your job isn't to cover up crimes, you can still work at this and discover some truths just be researching what is on DU. Of course, you'll have to wade past all the people who proceeded you doing just what you did here.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)I' wondering if you meant to reply to ryan_cat instead of staggerleem?
If not, then you don't buy into the weirdness around Mike Connell, who allegedly did it for the unborn babies? Myself I always thought that he actually worked with Rove to give the state to Bush, and I've done a lot of reading on this issue.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)A lot of reading? Try some reasoning for a change.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)and I don't see any obvious reason that what you said and the Rove server shenanigans couldn't both have been in play, but apparently you see that part as disinformation to coverup a more general method of tabulator manipulation (I've never trusted the tabulators)? Sorry I haven't had time to read the article you linked.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Even many people who are engaged enough to realize that something strange happened in 2000 are oblivious to the anomalies of 2004.
Fool me once...
yurbud
(39,405 posts)whole thing.
Apparently, they weren't told to do anything though.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)But, of course, Edwards' conspicuous personal failings allow us to conveniently discount nearly everything he ever did or said.
Also, Green Party candidate David Cobb led the charge for an Ohio recount, but we can just roll our eyes at that, too. (Green Party? Gimme a break!) Even worse, Michael Badnarik, a Libertarian, also helped to raise money for a recount.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)That said, we were able to inform members of Congress with certainty that the irregularities known by then altered the course of American history. That is why the Ohio electors were challenged.
Dig deep into the massive spreadsheets and you will see why it took some time to produce the proof of and quantify the vote-switching. You'll also comprehend why this analysis has yet to be applied to other counties and the previous ten years of punch card voting that altered Ohio from solid blue to red. Anyone have a spare lifetime to prove a point?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)and did fucking nothing. Didn't complain, acted like it was a loss in a tennis match. Then again in 2004, John Kerry bowed down to the Republicons. THE FUCKING ELECTION WAS STOLEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ELITE DIDN'T FUCKING CARE.
I have zero respect for Gore and Kerry. Their loses didn't hurt them but possibly ruined our nation.
chapdrum
(930 posts)cares about any of this.
As if the average politician wants to risk her/his career (or life) by raising inconvenient questions.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)People do care because it isn't all in the past but rather a big part of the present and the future.
chapdrum
(930 posts)What can (or will) this "huge majority" do with its past, present and future regret?
To start, any questioning of the 9/11 Comm. Report is automatically deemed unpatriotic. That tends to muffle expressions of regret.
jalan48
(13,907 posts)The Democrats could have organized massive protests and generally raised some serious hell. Why didn't the DNC and the rest of the Party do this?
no_hypocrisy
(46,270 posts)raccoon
(31,130 posts)tin foil hat....but I am asking.
jalan48
(13,907 posts)There's a great book by a Tufts political science Prof. who talks about the Military/Security State and how they are actually the governing body in this country. He looks at Obama's speeches regarding spying on Americans while he was running in 2007/2008 and how Obama changed once in office. He says that the MISS is probably calling the shots and that the politicians are there to lend credibility to the political system. He likens it to England in the 1800's when Parliament was actually the ruling body and the King and Queen the figureheads. The British people weren't ready to believe the King/Queen weren't the rulers so the illusion was maintained for many more decades. The name of the book is "National Security and the Double Government" by Michael Glennon. He's not a tin foil hat guy.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)and I often wonder to what degree. Hadn't heard of that book, thanks.
lark
(23,182 posts)He wouldn't have ignored the warnings, would have listened to Clark and taken action and this never would have happened. He wouldn't have told the airlines that they were never to stop any Saudi Arabian national from coming into the US, regarless of if they were on a terror list and that would have stopped 4 of the airplane bombers right there. He'd have listened to the FBi reports that there were some strange people taking flying classes who weren't interested at all in landing and stopped some if not all that way. If by some strange twist, it did happen anyway, it never would have gone so far because he'd have had the other planes stopped, one way or the other.
I know this is territory, however I do believe from everything that happened that Cheney and probably Bush as well were in on this. America's std. response is 15 seconda from us being hit that airplanes are scrambled. Why wasn't that done until hours later? Why did Bush allow all Saudi Arabians into the US regardless and did this almost immediately upon taking office? Why did Cheney tell Afghanistan that we'd carpet their country in blood if they didn't sign an agreement to give Unocal the right to build an oil pipeline through their country 1 month before 9/11? Why did Cheney have pictures of Iraqui oilfields in his presentation to the oilmen in this country and show them divided between American companies and then fight for years to keep this information secret? Oh, yeah, this too happened mere months prior to 9/11. I will never be convinced that they weren't in on this, so likelihood of this happening under a President Gore is about nil.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)It still could have been used to drive the PNAC agenda to some degree, just more difficult with Gore in power. I don't think Gore was any pacifist, he had DLC connections and there is some DLC - PNAC overlap. He wouldn't have gotten elected and wanted to invade Iraq from day 1, but that was Cheney anyway, and I have little doubt that Cheney and GHW Bush had enough "company" connections to do something like that whether or not they were officially in power. It's all speculation, seems quite possible to me though that it would have gone down either way, assuming MIHOP. If LIHOP, then I guess I would agree with you, Gore and his people would not have let it happen on purpose.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Denial and delusion take many forms, but as far as I'm concerned, that's one of the more pathetic variations.
Creating a scapegoat is far easier than facing what President Gore might term, "the inconvenient truth."
brush
(53,968 posts)as was the Jeb Bush/Catherine Harris and SCOTUS.
One admirable thing about Sanders is that he's vowed to not run as a third party candidate which could swing the vote to the repugs.
Guess that never occurred to Nader, or maybe there were other considerations.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If you're throwing spitballs and I strike out, it doesn't really matter that I went for a bad pitch or that my timing was off because I was still recovering from an injury. What you did was illegal. In that respect, every other factor is irrelevant.
brush
(53,968 posts)Sorry, you lost me.
Just be clear.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If I booby-trap your car but the bomb doesn't go off, that doesn't make me innocent.
Regardless of your opinions of Nader and his effect, what the Bush folks did was illegal. Nothing can change that. Pointing the finger at anyone other than the criminals is counter-productive.
I could easily see your Nader and raise you a Lieberman, but that would be pointless.
brush
(53,968 posts)I still think Nader siphoning off votes though made the election close enough for the repugs to pull of their shenanigans.
We can agree to disagree on that.
Thank God Bernie Sanders will not run as a third party spoiler.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Without Nader, Gore would be President and Bush would not have been able to steal Florida. So, we have a lot to "thank" Nader for, but we can't blame Nader for the Bush Junta's criminality. Thank Bush's Dad for pardoning the criminals in the Reagan administration so the Enterprise could regroup (from their HQ in the World Trade Center?).
eridani
(51,907 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Try being realistic please.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,775 posts)SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)Auggie
(31,227 posts)azureblue
(2,155 posts)by cutting the levee repair funds so badly that work in progress came to a stop. And he refused to put emergency workers in place before the storm, too. Just like 9/11,he thought he could do a she pleased, and nothing would happen. Bush nearly crashed this country with his astounding stupidity.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Hundreds of "paid GOP crusaders" descended upon South Florida to protest the state's recounts,[1] with at least half a dozen of the demonstrators at Miami-Dade paid by George W. Bush's recount committee.[2] Several of these protesters were identified as Republican staffers and a number later went on to jobs in the Bush administration.[3]
The "Brooks Brothers" name reinforces the allegation that the protesters, in corporate attire, sporting "Hermès ties"[4] were astroturfing, as opposed to local citizens concerned about counting practices.
The demonstration was organized by Republican operatives, sometimes referred to as the "Brooks Brothers Brigade",[5] to oppose the recount of 10,750 ballots during the Florida recount. The canvassers decided to move the counting process to a smaller room and restrict media access to 25 feet away while they continued. At this time, New York Rep. John Sweeney told an aide to "Shut it down."[2][4] The demonstration turned violent, and according to the NY Times, "several people were trampled, punched or kicked when protesters tried to rush the doors outside the office of the Miami-Dade supervisor of elections. Sheriff's deputies restored order." DNC aide Luis Rosero was kicked and punched. Within two hours after the riot died down, the canvassing board unanimously voted to shut down the count, in part due to perceptions that the process wasn't open or fair, and in part because the court-mandated deadline was impossible to meet.[6][7][8]
The controversial incident was set in motion by John E. Sweeney,[9] a New York Republican who was nicknamed "Congressman Kick-Ass" by President Bush for his work in Florida.[10] Sweeney defended his actions by arguing that his aim was not to stop the hand recount but to restore the process to public view.[11] Some Bush supporters did acknowledge they hoped the recount would end. "We were trying to stop the recount; Bush had already won," said Evilio Cepero, a reporter for WAQI, an influential Spanish talk radio station in Miami. "We were urging people to come downtown and support and protest this injustice." A Republican lawyer commented, "People were pounding on the doors, but they had an absolute right to get in."[6] The protest prevented official observers and members of the press from getting in.
The Republican Lawyer was full of horseshit, of course.
What no one ever realized, because the media never brought it up, is that whether or not this was staged, they were all committing a federal offense on at least two counts; tampering with a recount of a national election in a government office and crossing state lines to incite a riot in a government office - the same thing the Chicago Seven were charged with, BTW.
It was an illegal act to force more illegal acts to follow - the SCOTUS interfering in a state-run election, the election not being decided by the American voter, the installation of a dry drunk failure and his profit-hungry energy board member cabinet, the drumming up of War With Iraq merely hours after 9/11 happened . . . and, of course, culminating in one of the largest war crimes of the past 50 years - the blank-check Middle East occupation of aggression based on a load of bat guano.
Whether we liked it or wanted it or not . . .. Bewsh was going to get his presidency and was going to get his annointed wars come hell or high water. The fix was in with the media and the corporations driving the getaway car.
In the immortal words of one Al Jourgensen: "Push the Button Connect the Goddamned DOTS!!"
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31074-2005Jan23.html
J_J_
(1,213 posts)Why would anyone trust the Bush administrations version of events?
These people are attacking me but no one will explain how building 7 collapsed?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027161200
deutsey
(20,166 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Ever see a single Republican candidate harken back and wax eloquent about "The Dubya Bush Years"? Are any of these toothless wonders thinking "why arn't anyuns bringen up the man who kept us's safe fer 8 years??"?
If you're gonna be caught dead hitching your wagon to a rogue War Crime-committing, economy bollocksing administration, at least make it SOUND like you're being satirical.
liberal N proud
(60,351 posts)So one of them can continue to beat the drums of war.
turbinetree
(24,745 posts)we have a murder and a liar (Cheney), going on CBS last week hawking his new book, with his right wing egotistical daughter, and as comforting back drop of the CBS homily showing this right wing dirt bag hypocrite, fly fishing along the Sand creek in Wyoming.
While I and others have lost our jobs, some permanently (United / Aircraft Technician / Newark Liberty Airport/ New Jersey 14 years ago------I and others worked the Flight 93 pre-flight overnight check), while this dirt bag has made millions off that event-----------------and CBS helps sale a book.
Yes, the whole country should be bitter--------------this could have been preventable---------------they knew
Response to GreatGazoo (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Martin Eden
(12,882 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)The nation we all believed in does not exist.
We need a revolution to try and get it back.
Bernie wants to help us in this revolution.
He has my support.
#FeelTheBern
UTUSN
(70,779 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Skittles
(153,261 posts)SHAMEFUL