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Tue May 22, 2012, 04:35 AM

 

Austerity policies and the danger of fascism

Austerity doesn’t just lead to unemployment and misery. If it goes on long enough, it will inevitably lead to the emergence of “swamp thing” extremists into positions of power... This should be a wake-up call to political elites globally, because Greece could simply be the start of a trend of collapsing centrist politics and the rise of dangerous political actors. 7% of Greeks, including a substantial number of the police, voted for a fascist anti-immigrant party whose platform is a mixture of economic populism and xenophobic racist lunacy.... Golden Dawn political machine includes roving gangs of thugs that routinely beat up immigrants, and its political platform includes placing mines on the border between Greece and Turkey to prevent immigrants from coming into the country...

The man who garnered the most power from the election, leftist Alexis Tsipras of Syriza, has called the situation in Greece a “humanitarian crisis”. That’s just reality. Greece has a large, untouchable patronage system, a big defense sector, wealthy who escape from taxation – and yet international bankers are demanding radical cuts in wages, pensions, and jobs for honest workers. So people voted for the political parties who rejected the banks...

The Greeks think that the system is rigged against them, which it is. It was German and French banks who lent Greece huge sums of money, and Goldman Sachs that helped the government lie about its debt load. Bailing out Greece is really just bailing out these German and French banks. Even as Germans demand cuts in social spending, German leader Angela Merkel isn’t calling for the Greeks to cut defense spending, because Germany sells Greece lots of weapons....

Hopefully, the European elites will decide to give Tsipras a chance to govern... But if the European elites do what they can to kneecap a truly non-austerity based governance posture, Golden Dawn is waiting in the wings. Greeks are voting for political parties that are reasonable and anti-bailout, because they think that they are getting a raw deal. But if it becomes clear that the choice is between an endless and hopeless humanitarian crisis, where the rich do fine and everyone else suffers, and roving gangs of neo-Nazis who promise to restore Greece to greatness while giving the finger to bankers, well, we’ve seen that movie before.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/05/in-greek-humanitarian-crisis-its-liberals-or-nazis.html


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Arrow 51 replies Author Time Post
Reply Austerity policies and the danger of fascism (Original post)
HiPointDem May 2012 OP
ananda May 2012 #1
dipsydoodle May 2012 #2
kenny blankenship May 2012 #3
dipsydoodle May 2012 #4
Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #5
Mc Mike May 2012 #6
socialist_n_TN May 2012 #9
Mc Mike May 2012 #10
socialist_n_TN May 2012 #31
Mc Mike May 2012 #36
socialist_n_TN May 2012 #42
Mc Mike May 2012 #45
jwirr May 2012 #14
Mc Mike May 2012 #15
jwirr May 2012 #16
Mc Mike May 2012 #18
jwirr May 2012 #19
Mc Mike May 2012 #22
pampango May 2012 #7
bemildred May 2012 #8
HiPointDem May 2012 #20
bemildred May 2012 #21
hifiguy May 2012 #11
Fawke Em May 2012 #12
bemildred May 2012 #13
Fawke Em May 2012 #17
HiPointDem May 2012 #24
bemildred May 2012 #25
HiPointDem May 2012 #27
bemildred May 2012 #30
HiPointDem May 2012 #33
Mc Mike May 2012 #37
bemildred May 2012 #39
Mc Mike May 2012 #43
bemildred May 2012 #44
Mc Mike May 2012 #46
bemildred May 2012 #47
Mc Mike May 2012 #48
bemildred May 2012 #50
bemildred May 2012 #49
Mc Mike May 2012 #51
Fawke Em May 2012 #26
Mc Mike May 2012 #34
HiPointDem May 2012 #23
deutsey May 2012 #38
bemildred May 2012 #40
fascisthunter May 2012 #32
bemildred May 2012 #41
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #28
HiPointDem May 2012 #29
Mc Mike May 2012 #35

Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 04:49 AM

1. Why do I think parts of America are already there?

Arizona.. Florida.. red states.. Trayvon.. war on women.. gay bullying.. blatant racism..

Elitist plutocracy and austerity really do bring out the fringe extremists and do hurt the honest workers big time.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 05:12 AM

2. "the country would have enough cash to pay its workers and retirees" ?

For the time being. Thereafter in the absence of a recognisable tax collection program they'd sink anyway.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)

Tue May 22, 2012, 05:40 AM

3. That was Tsipras; if he is elected THERE WILL BE tax collection

The rich fucks of Greece know and believe that even if you don't. If ND-PASOK stay in, swapping power like the Democrats and the Republicans in this country, it will be bidness as usual, and the elites will continue to duck out on their obligations to society.

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Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #3)

Tue May 22, 2012, 06:44 AM

4. He's dreaming

Even the small shopkeepers reject us of credit cards because they leave a paper trail - cash only.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 06:55 AM

5. Over and over again. So much for any correlation between money and brains. K&R n/t

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 07:41 AM

6. +1, Thanks. Good analysis.

Prof. Klein's 'Shock Doctrine' talked about a lot of Third World nations turning their backs on WTO, IMF, and World Bank (pp 576-8, in her chapter 'Shock Wears Off'), by going with the ALBA (Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas.) Greece isn't 3rd world, but it might as well be.

Brazil, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Argentina, Equador, Bolivia all gave the finger to the banksters. The IMF's lending portfolio went from 80% Latin America in '05 to 1% in '07. Argentina's Kirchner said "There is life after the IMF, and it's a good life." The 'Financial Times' reported that when World Bank managers dispensed [austerity] advice to the developing world, "they were now laughed at." The Latins appear to be mirroring the Yeltsin group's strategy, when they all pulled their Republics out from under Gorbachev, and reassembled them into a new Russia, not ruled by Gorby. It would be good if Greece could join a Southern Hemisphere oriented alternative to western banksters, along with all the other nations getting bled by the financial leeches. The country is like a frog in a skillet, they have to jump some way. Why not jump toward giving their people hope? At minimum, Greece has a lot of shipping capacity to offer any new financial cooperative that they join.

Hitler's nazis promised to give the finger to banks and corporations, but were the flunkies of those financial interests. They were created by big money interests, and completely subservient to them. Fascism was defined as 'Corporatism + Reaction'. Hopefully the Greeks will see through the nazi flunkies' lies, despite their country's current level of austere misery and financial shock.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #6)

Tue May 22, 2012, 09:49 AM

9. I like and agree with your second paragraph especially...........

And I've said it before. ALL of the anti-austerian leaders and countries need to form an anti-austerity bloc among themselves, worldwide. This would put the MOST pressure on the 1% and if it worked, would rout neoliberalism and MIGHT lead to a more socialistic and sustainable world.

It's worth a shot anyway.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #9)

Tue May 22, 2012, 10:45 AM

10. The coalition you concieve would be beautiful to behold.

Palast covered the issue of Brazil, India, and Argentina making AIDS drugs dirt-cheap for Southern Africa in the '90's pandemic, and the subsequent WTO Trade Related Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) attempts to reign those countries in, on behalf of big PHARMA profits ("The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" , pp 184 - 6.) He also mentioned that Glaxo's 'intellectual property' was in fact created by a professor using US taxpayer money, not by Glaxo paying big bucks for research.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #10)

Wed May 23, 2012, 07:45 PM

31. That's the way it usually works .........

in this country anyway. The government actually FUNDS the researches that they subcontract to a private company and GIVE the patents to that company. That's a pretty sweetheart deal for the capitalists. But it's no different from the banks benefiting from the government insuring mortgages against foreclosure. The banks take VERY little risk and reap the profits. It's a fucked up system all around.

Yeah I'd like to see that coalition tried out. BUT the Euro countries would have to nationalize the hard assets and confiscate the liquid assets of the Euro capitalists for it to work.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #31)

Thu May 24, 2012, 07:14 AM

36. Dave C. Johnston's book 'Free Lunch' has a ton of good info on

the zillion ways our tax-dollars go to subsidize the 1%ers' biz ventures, while they don't deign to pay their taxes.

I don't disagree with nationalization, as long as it isn't the 'national socialization' form, which only benefitted Krupp, IG Farben, Deutsche Bank, Siemens, etc. There isn't a road map to non-nazi nationalization from here, that I can see. We had the perfect justification for nationalizing the banks after '08, and it didn't happen. Progressives are more in the 'mobilization' phase, rather than the 'nationalization' phase.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #36)

Thu May 24, 2012, 08:49 AM

42. Yeah, we're a long way away from nationalization............

And you're also correct about '08. I actually got on the phone with an economic advisor for my Blue Dog rep right after Obama was elected and lobbied for turning at least ONE of the banks bailed out into a "Bank of the United States" and, of course, got absolutely nowhere.

I was actually thinking more about nationalization of the Greek and other southern Euro countries assets in keeping with the anti-austerity bloc theme. Greece would have a LOT to offer the bloc IF they siezed those merchant ships the Greek capitalists own.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #42)

Thu May 24, 2012, 10:52 AM

45. Even Jon Stewart mentioned it at least twice.

One time he said if the gov bails the banks out, the taxpayers should then own the mortgages, which are owed by the taxpayer! (paraphrase mine.) Which means we can forgive our own mortgage debt, and let's take the parasitic middle-man bank out of the picture. De-facto nationalization. Debt forgiveness for all mortgagees to the tune of every cent in bailout the banks got from the taxpayer.

On shipping line nationalization, I imagine that the Greek shipping magnates have a world-class enforcement arm, whose skills would sorely test the security details of elected officials. Even Royal Family members and Vatican big wigs have experienced corporate related security problems. That's not to say it isn't worth trying, but it's easy for me to advocate that with someone else's butt on the line. If the anti-austerity bloc does the right thing and gives their people hope, they just have to have a De Gaulle level of carefullness, security wise. I'm rooting for them, and the Greek 99%.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #6)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:36 AM

14. Thank you for the update on the SA country that have escaped the IMF, World Bank and disaster

capitalism. I have always wondered after reading Naomi's book.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #14)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:46 AM

15. Para 1 & 2 of my post 6 are from Prof. Naomi's book

So not an update, jw. The only update I can think of is Chavez suffering from cancer, unfortunately. I think the high oil prices at the time gave Venezuela a lot of financial clout, to help set up the ALBA.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #15)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:54 AM

16. I did not remember that part. I to am sorry that Chevez has cancer. I heard that he has set up

a coalition to take over if the worst happens. Let us hope that the people of Venezuela are smart enough to follow his directions.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #16)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:11 PM

18. That's from pp 576-8, paperback edition.

Not direct quote, but all info is Prof. Klein's.

RE Chavez and anti-austerity, I'm pulling for him, and them, and 99% of us.

I also enjoy the winter-time Citgo ads with Joe Kennedy offering financially struggling Americans help with heating oil costs, so their families don't turn into ice-cubes while bloated parasite US oil companies make world-record breaking profits, year after year.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #18)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:22 PM

19. I am one of the people who benefit from Citgo and the energy assistance from Chavez. We could

not do it without the help.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #19)

Wed May 23, 2012, 04:37 AM

22. That program shows real greatness.

It shows that the Latins don't blame us Americans for the 1%ers foreign policy, but see us as other people who are getting hurt by the same bad guys.

I see the 1% also have rural postal delivery, and small telecoms that serve rural areas, on the list of targets to attack, currently. They're cannibalizing America's infrastructure with austerity measures. The definition of treason.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 07:52 AM

7. Euronews: Tsipras starts EU tour ahead of Greek elections

Riding a wave of anti-austerity sentiment, radical-left Greek politician Alexis Tsipras has begun a tour of European capitals.

First stop: Paris where he took part in a leftist rally before meeting French radical-left leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon. In a press conference he issued a stark warning to newly elected French President François Hollande to stick to anti-austerity electoral promises:

“Thanks to the existence of this strong leftist force François Holland knows that he cannot renege on his promises so easily. Because if he does so, he’ll become Hollandreou and start down the path that led to what we see happening now in Greece.”

With his star on the rise ahead of the June elections, Tspiras has become the main protagonist in the eurozone drama, due to his rejection of the EU-IMF bailout.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/05/21/tsipras-starts-eu-tour-ahead-of-greek-elections/

France is a good place for Tsipras to start his foreign tour given the recent success of the left and its anti-austerity message there.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 07:56 AM

8. Well, yep, it's hard to seize power with no crisis as a pretext. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #8)

Tue May 22, 2012, 02:04 PM

20. It's already happening in some ways. Such as the takeover of cities (like detroit) because of

 

financial crisis. Cities are being drained of $$ as fallout from the Wall Street crisis.

Not a military takeover, but a change in the form of governance to the exclusion of popular input.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #20)

Tue May 22, 2012, 02:49 PM

21. I think of it more as things falling apart, with the clampdown as a consequence.

But it is indeed going on right now.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:06 AM

11. The austerity policies imposed by Chancellor

 

Heinrich Brüning, a "centrist," in Germany back in 1929-30 led to a 600% increase in the vote for the Nazis at the next parliamentary election. They went from being a marginal party with little representation in the Reichstag to the second largest bloc.

Those who fail to learn from history . . .

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:16 AM

12. How come the 1 percents never learn from the past?

You'd think with all their fancy education, they would learn some history.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #12)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:24 AM

13. Hubris, narcissism?

For some people, success goes to their heads, and they start to think they are a different case from "the rabble", or people who got ahead "by luck".

What befuddles me is how rare it is to get someone who governs well, despite the fact that all the perks of office lie before you and your descendants forever, if you can just do that. I suppose part of that comes from all the obstacles that will be put in your way if you really try to level the playing field politically and economically.

Nevertheless, your point is well taken, it's like watching the same tape play over and over, different actors, same stupid play.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #13)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:58 AM

17. It simply amazes me that there is that amount of hubris in their thinking.

What makes someone - who is probably well-educated, as I mentioned - think they can do the same thing that didn't work in the past and have it work now because they are in charge?

I'm in marketing and I'm the first one willing to speak out regarding methods that work or don't work. Why would I want to waste my time and reputation and income on reproducing the same thing that doesn't work? I wouldn't and I don't know why these people would want to, either. Hell, not only could it cost them their time, reputation and money, in some revolutions of their austerity, it's cost them their lives.

It's the definition of insanity.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #17)

Wed May 23, 2012, 05:37 AM

24. it's working for them. that's what you're not getting. it's working well.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #24)

Wed May 23, 2012, 07:07 AM

25. Sorry, it's you that's not getting it here.

We understand perfectly well the perks of high office, and that ripping people off can pay well in the short run.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #25)

Wed May 23, 2012, 02:33 PM

27. it pays in the long run, too.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #27)

Wed May 23, 2012, 05:34 PM

30. See, that's what we mean about needing to read more history. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #30)

Thu May 24, 2012, 12:23 AM

33. I read plenty of history. A human being lives about 70-some years. Most powerful rich people

 

die rich, and most of their victims die poor. That's their life -- there is no "longer run" unless you believe in heaven.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #30)

Thu May 24, 2012, 07:24 AM

37. We're talking apples and oranges here, bee.

Hi's discussing a historical period that extends to the present, where the 1% is attacking via austerity.

You seem to be talking about past historical periods, where the majority's revulsion caused things to go badly for the 1%.

I don't think you're being mean or rude, but perhaps a bit 'scratchy'.

On edit: apologies to hi for extensive posts on this o.p. Not a hijack attempt, but it may look like it.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #37)

Thu May 24, 2012, 08:35 AM

39. I'm talking long view (history, eh?) , he wants to restrict it to short-view only.

Last edited Thu May 24, 2012, 09:40 AM - Edit history (1)

The "The guy who dies with the most toys wins" idea, which makes his argument circular, since that is also the desired conclusion. You all are welcome to that conclusion, if it suits you, but it does not suit me, and it is certainly not a "fact".

I was talking to Fawke Em, and the other guy jumped in to push his own shallow POV. Big deal. This does not begin to rise to scratchy yet scratchy can get you hidden these days.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #39)

Thu May 24, 2012, 10:08 AM

43. Bee, I honestly didn't mean to offend.

Disagreeing about 'perspective' and another individual's perceptions, doesn't make me feel offended or want to offend you, or Fawke.

All I can offer is my perception, subjective not objective, phenominal not noumenal.

Where F and you say to empire and 1%ers 'Try it again, wacko. We'll beat you again.', I'm 100% with you. 99% anyhow.

Where H points out that the 1% is causing austerity problems by being in the driver's seat - and that they are using austerity to 'try it again' (with a new nazi initiative), because they're wackos, I agree. It's just a warning of how they're trying to step on the gas, which doesn't say they'll win THIS time around either.

All those 1%er empires fell. French Royalty, German fascists, Roman Ceasars, even Greeks under Alexander of Macedonia. The O.P. warning doesn't pre-clude another sucessful resolution.

I don't think 'Nazis. Oh, I'm so scared. Might as well give up. We always lose.' But I do like to get a warning that the 1% is trying to use nazis again, to further consolidate power. Their current power level is shown by their success in enacting austerity measures, so they're the guy with the most toys who didn't die yet. And they are trying to use the backlash vs. austerity to drive a new nazi push, to get more toys. If the nazis anywhere had their 10%, they'd be driving their tanks down the street. They don't, so H is free to warn that they are trying it, and you are free to tell them they're crazy losers who will be crushed again if they 'bring it on'.

My perspective is that they are trying it again because they are aware of the destabilizing socio-political effects that global climatic change is causing. The system that gives them the most toys is causing both ecosystem and civil destabilization, which threaten their grip on their system and their toys. So they're trying to tighten their grip thru totalitarianism. Doesn't mean they'll win.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #43)

Thu May 24, 2012, 10:34 AM

44. I'm not offended, he's right as far as that goes, but it's not what we were talking about.

Though I don't want to speak for Mr. or Ms Em. HPD is asserting that his view is the only one that matters, not me.

This stuff is all very old, it's there already with the first written records, hog-in-the-trough politics and economics is the norm, that does not make it smart, or right, it makes it mediocre.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #44)

Thu May 24, 2012, 11:30 AM

46. Not sure if your reffing h's # 24 reply to F's 17, or the #23 re to your 13.

When you're saying h thinks their view is the only one that matters.

I agree sheepishly with you about speaking for other post-ers. That's why I threw my vague 'phenominal' remembrance of Kant in, in a lame effort to immunize myself from a fair charge.

I'm with you on 'history repeated' ( http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175903 ), and the relative lack of morals and intelligence the other side displays.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #46)

Thu May 24, 2012, 11:39 AM

47. I have no problem, that I can see, with anything Fawke Em has said so far.

And not very much, as I said, with HPD. He/She (HPD) seemed to have a problem with what FM said in response to me, though it is not entirely clear to me why, but nevertheless, it was HPD (admittedly the original poster for the thread) who jumped in and criticized what we were saying, as I see it.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #47)

Thu May 24, 2012, 12:34 PM

48. If #24's wording was changed

from '...you're not getting' to '...I'm getting at', the OP'ers own apparent 'scratchy-ness' would disappear. In that case, we're probably all on the same team, looking at the current attack, and saying the good side will defeat this attack too. Just an opinion.

But it's nice to actually have talked to someone (you) here, without each side going away afterwards with a dark stormcloud hovering over their heads, cartoon like. So, thanks for that, brother.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #48)

Thu May 24, 2012, 12:39 PM

50. I'm OK with all that. nt

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #46)

Thu May 24, 2012, 12:35 PM

49. Nice plug for Shelley there, BTW.

I still have the copy of that poem I made in HS during my romantic phase.

Here's one for you:


This Poem

is for the quite, uncelebrated
things of the world --
the road to no familiar place,
love's skill on a troubled night,
the unpublished poem and the lost song,
the way of the wild drake,
and night's festival of sound;
for body's silent defeat of disease,
and mysteries that hold their secrets.
For multitudes of creatures and created
things clothed in the graceful sanctity
of their rightful natures.

-- Joseph Harris

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Response to bemildred (Reply #49)

Thu May 24, 2012, 12:43 PM

51. Excellent read, new to me. +1, thanks. NT.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #24)

Wed May 23, 2012, 09:12 AM

26. For now, it's working well.

However, once the people rise up, it usually ends not-so-well for them.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #26)

Thu May 24, 2012, 05:56 AM

34. Starting a DeFarge-style knitting circle

led to the Reign of Terror, the liquidation of fellow revolutionary rivals like the Marat assassination, and the rise of a military adventurist dictator.

That was the 1% getting back in charge of France, again.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #13)

Wed May 23, 2012, 05:35 AM

23. the fact that ordinary people think things aren't being governed well doesn't have much relevance

 

to the governors.

the two groups have different aspirations and goals, and thus different ideas of what "good governance" means.

our pain is their gain, iow.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #13)

Thu May 24, 2012, 07:40 AM

38. I worked for a Hah-vahd man once

He was brilliant in his field of study (he's actually recognized as one of the leading minds in his field). However, he was also an arrogant, narcissistic asshole and seemed to think this brilliance of his applied to all facets of life...psychology, literature, politics, etc.

He thought he had me all figured out, too, although he had no clue about who I really am. He was a real "golden boy" in the organization we were part of and was very well connected as a rising star within its ranks, which he used successfully to prevent me from getting another position I had applied for within the organization.

One of my best memories is when I gave him my resignation a couple months later. I could tell it pissed him off that he had no power this time to block me (I got another job far outside his sphere of influence).

Still brings an to my face when I remember how irked he looked.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #38)

Thu May 24, 2012, 08:41 AM

40. Yep, my back trail is littered with those guys.

And yeah, it brings a smile every time I think about it.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #12)

Wed May 23, 2012, 07:47 PM

32. It's a Mental Sickness, that's why

 

the problem with their sickness is it's like a black hole, which is part of nature.... it sucks everything with it.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #32)

Thu May 24, 2012, 08:48 AM

41. I dunno if I'd call it a disease.

It's the ruling economic dogma here, but it does bespeak a Hobbesian view of the world, and that would not seem to me to lead to social unity and patriotism and all that "pull together" sort of thing that is fed to the sheep. Shameless exploitation of the society you live in is not a recipe for social progress etc., all those good liberal things we support, it's a recipe for the sort of problems that we have.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Wed May 23, 2012, 02:37 PM

28. "austerity" is disaster capitalism to allow extremists etc. into power.

 

Create chaos, then promise that you are the answer to chaos.

It has been done in the United States to great effect:

-Bush friends OPEC declaring an embargo during Carter's time to make him look weak and to hit Americans in their Personal Convenience; same with Iran holding hostages until Reagan got elected, in exchange for weaponry.

-Enron pulling the same stunt, meeting with Ahnold in secret then creating an embargo through "rolling blackouts" in California, resulting in a special election installing Ahnold, who then gave Enron pennies on the dollar instead of the legit fines previously called for.

Make things bad enough, and people will of course scream for change. This is then your opportunity.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #28)

Wed May 23, 2012, 02:42 PM

29. yes, i agree that a lot of things that are supposedly just the twists & turns of history are

 

actually planned or manipulated.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #28)

Thu May 24, 2012, 06:44 AM

35. US intel jerks

Dem Administrations' chains, a lot, after our side beats the repugs in elections. By making foreign policy flare-ups that the new Dem executives have to focus on. They did it to Carter, Clinton, and Obama. There were CIA connections to the '09 Mumbai attacks (not Mossad connections, like that fat pig Bircher Jones said. The Mossad wouldn't launch attacks against Bombay Jews.)

Re Schwarzie: it was funny how the 'English Language Only' crowd voted him in, when he could barely speak the language. And amusing that repug white 'supremacists' admired a guy with simian facial features, who appeared to come from several steps down the evolutionary chain. Maybe his dad's old-country connections caused caucasions to cut him some slack.

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