So many questions on what happened to Sandra Bland

[marym625]

These questions are mine and Dark n Stormy Knight's from this thread post. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027009409 I am linking to it because there are a few videos that are important in the OP and articles, the Intercept in particular, that raise more questions.

Knight's questions:

Why did he go to the passenger side of her car at first? Maybe that's not unusual, but I've never seen it before. 

2. How does anyone not see the unnecessary power tripping of the cop in the following exchange? He is supposed to be the professional in this situation. 

TROOPER: "You OK?" 

BLAND: "I'm waiting on you. This is your job. I'm waiting on you. What do you want me to do?" 

TROOPER: "You seem very irritated." 

BLAND: "I am. I really am. Because of what I've been stopped and am getting a ticket for. I've been getting out of the way. You've been speeding up, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated. But that didn't stop you from giving me a ticket." 

TROOPER: "Are you done?" 

BLAND: "You asked me what was wrong and I told you. So now I'm done, yeah." 

TROOPER: "OK, OK." 

(Pause) 

TROOPER: "Do you mind putting out your cigarette, please?" 

BLAND: "I'm in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?" 

TROOPER: "Well, you can step out now."



He prods her about why she's irritated. She speaks for approximately 10 seconds and he impatiently asks, "Are you done?," as if she's just gone on and on. Her response to this, that he asked and she told him, pisses him off. He suddenly finds her cigarette offensive. And when she asks why she can't smoke in her own car, he orders her out of the car. Just because she asked why. He is clearly feeling the need to flex his power muscles simply out of ego, not necessity. 

And of course, this is where things escalate. He clearly loses his cool in this moment, which causes her to lose respect for him. She cannot trust him to behave professionally. At first, she was irritated at being pulled over for such a minor, inconsequential infraction. Now she's fearful. It's not that hard to see why she'd be hesitant to get out of the car. She knows many people, particular PoC, have been injured or killed by angry cops. (I want to add that his question was asked to the first person we see that was pulled over, also an out of state person, but it was asked in a completely different tone. The first person he's laughing "are you okay? " like oh it's nothing to worry about. With Sandy Bland, it's obviously asked like a challenge.

3. It's bad enough the video resolution is so low, but why even have dash cams if the cop can just move the interaction out of the camera's line of sight? 

4. Does the cop have the legal authority to order a bystander who is recording the incident to leave for no clear reason? 

I added:

He sped up to catch up with her. You can see it happen and she had not changed lanes until he was already on her ass. Why did he chase her down? 

Why take her glasses off? I feel like he did that because he had every intention of smashing her head into the ground. 

Why didn't they get her any medical attention? She requested EMS. They not only didn't take her, they lied and said she didn't request any medical attention. 

If the pictures of the cell were taken immediately after her death, and nothing was touched, why is there a brand new trash bag liner in the gigantic can in her cell? Why is that can in her cell at all? 

Why is the video of the cell when EMS is called to her actually a video of the monitor and not what was recorded? Why is there a pause in the video and nothing showing what happened while we watch a freeze frame? You can see that the monitor is still being recorded but the recording of what is on the monitor is frozen for many seconds. Could be a full minute. What was going on then? I suspect a garbage can is being put into the cell. 

Why was she brutalized so badly that a leaf was still in a cut in her back? 

What happened when she asked how to use the phone an hour before she was murdered? 

Why is there no video that actually looks into the cell or at least a better look at the cell? I don't believe that's the only angle or camera. 

Why is the DoJ not involved? The FBI infiltrated BLM. They cannot be trusted in this anymore than the local police can be. 

Why is the trooper still working? He was so bad that police departments in the Chicago area are using the dashcam video as a training tape of what NOT to do. 

Why hasn't there been any admonishment for telling whoever got the video on their phone to leave and stop recording? 

Why was the first posted dashcam video altered? Why remove it if it wasn't?

Here's an article in Vice that shows some inconsistencies. They also have the video of the 9 minutes right before they took her lifeless body out of the cell..it's obviously a video of the monitor. That alone is suspicious to me.

https://news.vice.com/article/sandra-blands-arresting-officer-details-alleged-assault-before-her-arrest

Vice has more than a few articles on the "arrest" and death of Sandra Bland. They're worth the read.

This thing stinks to high heaven. The DoJ should be involved. There's no reason that they shouldn't be.

I want answers. What happened to Sandra Bland and why?

[babylonsister]

1. A friend of mine posted

this on FB last night in regards to her mugshot. Don't know if his tinfoil hat was on too tight or if this is a legitimate concern, but here it is...



Why does Sandra already have an orange jumpsuit on in a mugshot supposedly taken during in-processing?

Why are the locks of her hair descending backwards, as though she is lying down, rather than standing up? If she was standing up, her locks should be hanging straight down, as they are in every other image of her we have where she has locks.

Her eyes seem focused on nothing.

The shadow to our right indicates to some that she is lying down.

Her face, collagen, fat, loose musculature, is all seeming to fall backwards, rather than down. This too would seem to indicate that she is lying down.

On the right side of the image, we can see the left side of her face (our right), drooping lower than the opposite side. Some have suggested this indicates effects of oxygen depletion to the brain.

[noiretextatique]

2. Anonymous Says ‘Sandra Bland Was Murdered’, Calls For National ‘Day of Rage’

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/07/opsandrabland/

[PatrickforO]

5. When?

[noiretextatique]

6. i just provided a link eom

[marym625]

11. There is no date and no place

And it seems everyone is asking without an answer. Do you have a date?

[PatrickforO]

14. Yeah but those pics on the links were pretty graphic.

I mean, that trashcan doesn't even LOOK like it belongs in the room. And she looks dead in the mugshot. No one in mugshots is wearing the orange suit - why is Sandra?

[marym625]

15. I don't know

And I so very much hate to think why. But I want to know

[Alameda]

55. the link is gone, where is the mugshot?

Oh, I found it here....http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/sandra-bland-mugshot-mug-photo-already-dead-photoshopped-edited-fake-conspiracy-theory-hoax-real-edited-photos/

[noiretextatique]

25. Thursday

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/20/homeland-security-warns-ahead-of-national-day-of-rage/

[marym625]

30. That's last year

I don't think that they have a date yet. They're probably waiting for permits in a bunch of cities. I can't find a date anywhere

[marym625]

3. I have actually skipped reading all the mugshot stuff

I assumed it was about the MSM using it instead of readily available pretty pictures

Interesting

[noiretextatique]

8. i think the mugshots will be key to proving murder

i am beginning to believe that she was already dead and laying on the ground when the pictures were taken.

[marym625]

13. Was just checking that out

Looks like it.

This just has way too many questions and nowhere near enough answers

[ellennelle]

21. just looked at the mugshot again

i don't know what is standard regarding the jumpsuit, but she does not look dead at all to me, and i'm not persuaded by points made regarding her hair.

however, i do want to know how someone hangs oneself with a plastic bag; how does that work, exactly?

[noiretextatique]

24. not sure about that either...why would she even have a bag?

in a jail cell?

[marym625]

32. Since this morning

I have read both sides of arguing that she was already dead. I don't know for sure but I tend to believe she was. I almost want to look at the autopsy pictures to compare but I can't bring myself to do that

[ellennelle]

16. one error here

these are helpful observations but the last one is very much in error. take note, if just ONE side of her face is affected, the it is NOT oxygen depletion, or any kind of chemical change in the brain, which has a global and generalized effect; instead, symptoms on one sid would be indication of either cortical stroke, which always lateralizes, but could also be indication of external injuries, such as having her face slammed against the ground so hard she lost her hearing.

the suggestion that drooping of the left side of her face, or either side of her face, indicates oxygen depletion - that is flat out WRONG.

just to clear that up.
(i'm a neuropsychologist, just for the credential; i know of what i speak here.)

thx for the rest of it, tho.

[babylonsister]

17. No, thank you for the clarification! nt

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

27. I don't blame people for suspecting LE of anything underhanded, but this does seem unlikely.

(Yeah, I know, not all cops are bad, but even a small percentage behaving imprudently can do a sh*tload of irreparable harm.) Here are two articles that seem to reasonably well dismiss the claims that she was dead at the time of the mugshot.

Forensic Experts: Sandra Bland Mugshot Conspiracy ‘Ridiculous’

Why Is Sandra Bland's Mugshot Causing Controversy? There Are Differing Theories Surrounding Her Arrest


The Bustle article, however, goes on to state:

The discrepancies and questions surrounding the situation have caused the Texas Department of Public Safety to investigate the death, and it has found that the facility is guilty of several violations.

For example, inmates must be checked on every hour. Video footage from the jail shows that Bland was not checked on for almost two hours the morning she was found dead. And as The Huffington Post pointed out, if Bland had ever stated that she had previously attempted suicide, whether at the beginning or end of the booking process, leaving her alone in a cell without consistent observation was a violation of jail protocol.

And I don't understand how we could possibly dismiss the fact that, whether it was suicide or murder, the culture of bigotry that still pervades our society in large and small ways played a part in her tragic death.

[PatrickforO]

4. Yet another murder of a black person by cops.

And then she hung herself in her cell with a trashbag and somehow put the trashbag neatly back in the trashcan?

Bullshit.

And she had (gasp) marijuana in her blood, which means she might have used it the day before or two weeks past - no telling.

This is murder.

[marym625]

7. No question in my mind

No matter how much people want to blame her. Even here

[Euphoria]

10. agreed. This is murder.

[XemaSab]

9. Trash can explanation:

That cell is probably used as the drunk tank. The trash can is there so the cops don't have to clean puke off of everything.

[marym625]

12. so why does the gigantic trash can

Have a liner in it if nothing had been touched?

[hack89]

18. Where I work the trash cans have three or four liners

as one fills up (which some do quickly) you take it out and don't have to bother about putting another one in.

[marym625]

31. I understand that

But I have never heard from anyone that a trashcan, especially that size, with a plastic liner is in a holding cell.

They knew she was very upset and crying. They knew she had attempted suicide less than a year prior. At the absolute very least, this was negligence.

[ColesCountyDem]

19. In addition to stopping her for DWB, he then baited and badgered her into a confrontation.

I'm sick to death of hearing people say that she should have simply complied, no mater how well-intentioned that advice may be, because it misses the fundamental point-- the escalation began when the officer a.) asked Ms. Bland to do something he had no right whatsoever TO ask her to do, then b.) illegally ordered her to exit the car. This is where everything 'went south' ( no pun intended ).

If Ms. Bland committed suicide, something I won't believe until the second autopsy confirms the results of the first, she died ONLY because she was in a jail cell she should never, ever have been in!
This is something that many honestly well-intentioned white folks don't get.

[Dems to Win]

28. I do get it

Why did the trooper do a U-turn to get behind Sandra's car? He never alleged he saw her speeding or driving unsafely.

No, he pulled a U-turn because she was black. He then played chicken with his car until she did something he could pull her over about, then pushed and baited her.

The asshole cop created this situation from the first moment, for no reason other than racism. It's really the only possible reading of the events.

If Sandra had never driven near this racist cop, she'd be alive today. Breaks my heart to think about how despondent she was in that jail cell. She had a great future ahead of her until the moment the racist cop laid eyes on her -- then, her new job and opportunities vanished in an instant. Soul crushing.

[marym625]

34. soul crushing

That's exactly what it is

[Enthusiast]

47. +100%

[marym625]

33. I won't believe it either

And like you said, they're still guilty of her death

[ellennelle]

20. additional questions

one, why was she in a cell by herself, and without observation, if she had mentioned she had been suicidal? and why was she placed in a cell by herself when three women were sharing the one across from her?

if the autopsy shows she had wrist cuts (which that other inmate had noted, as well), and that they had scabbed, this datum requires serious attention, as i don't think any wounds would heal after her death. in other words, she may well have killed herself. however, a good coroner can tell the difference between these details.

but let's say she did commit suicide, here's the thing. she was placed in that cell alone, and it looked to me for all the world like solitary confinement. for three days. for not signaling? technically, she was charged i think with something like resisting arrest, but there is no question this was punitive. what is the going bail rate for such things there? and does it differ for blacks and whites?

what i'm getting at is, those circumstances might be enough to send someone over the edge. she was not hearing back from anyone regarding her bail, she had no idea why she was still in jail, she'd missed her first day of work, her family was in chicago. and on and on. i wonder if she was being adequately fed. i wonder too - huge inflammatory speculation here - if she might have been sedated to make the incident look like suicide. or if she was drugged in her food. autopsy claims large consumption of cannabis?? when, in jail? did they not search her? how would they miss enough MJ to register on an autopsy as huge? would they not smell it? to circle back, if she was drugged in her food, in an attempt to 'justify' her treatment, and the volume was 'large' as the autopsy supposedly says, might that be enough to make her believe she was losing her mind, driving her to use the trash bag?

yep, too many questions here. one observation i have not seen anyone else make, but surely i'm not the only one who noticed when she got out of her car. she was a full foot taller than the wee little small puny officer who arrested her. ya gotta know that alone had to just piss the livin' crap out of the poor boy.

anyone reading this far, thx for indulging me; i'm just thinking 'out loud' here. but also check out the grio article someone posted on this site earlier today, as well as the horrifying story in the video column regarding caroline small from five years ago. it's not an epidemic; it's a firkin' conspiracy, apparently motivated by good ol' white boys who happen to feel they're 'supreme'.

[marym625]

39. Good questions

I thought I also asked the first one. I sure meant to. Absolutely no doubt she was being punished even further for being black. The only inmate I have seen was white. If she was the only black female in custody, that would mean they segregated the cells.

The cuts on her wrists were from the handcuffs, from what I understand

Also, if you watch the entire video, you see an ambulance. She didn't receive medical attention according to the records. So they came for the cop who said he wasn't hurt? Or was she checked out and there's no record of it?

The video stops while still taking her in. Why? What was said after it cuts off? Why don't we hear any conversation while the paramedics are there?

Did you notice the female cop taking Ms. Bland's cell phone off the trunk and putting it in her back pocket? What happened to what was on that?

Everything stinks about this. Everything

[snot]

45. If there were 3 women in the cell across from her, have they been interviewed?

Even if they didn't see anything, it would be interesting to know whether they were released more quickly or were moved prior to Bland's death.

[marym625]

54. At least one was

Here's one interview.

http://newsone.com/3158402/2nd-inmate-speaks-out-about-sandra-bland/

Here's a different inmate

http://abc7chicago.com/news/sandra-bland-distraught-neighboring-inmate-says/874337/

Interestingly, the video doesn't have everything that the woman said,

"I don't think she should have been in the other tank alone by herself," Pyle said. "We're over here, we're trying to keep each other laughing all the time, and she's over there hearing that. That would make anybody sad."

They had 3 women in one cell and Sandy Bland alone in the other. That's not nice. That's intentional unnecessary solitary. I have to wonder too if all the other inmates were white

[snot]

70. Thx!

[ALBliberal]

22. Did the family get an independent autopsy?

[cstanleytech]

37. Yes

http://madamenoire.com/575196/sandra-bland-funeral/

[marym625]

40. I see you were answered

But I just wanted to add they don't expect results for another week or so

[zentrum]

23. What happened...

…on the way over to the police station?

If she's in his car—what happened there? Did he verbally threaten her on the ride over? Did he tell her he was going to charge her with crimes that would take her months or years to fight?

Was she read her miranda rights?

Who booked her in? Did any of these officers get her medical aid?

Was she allowed to call an attorney immediately?

What phone calls was she able to make?

What happened in the 3 days between arrest and death? Was she verbally threatened? Physically intimidated?

(No matter what comes out, it's clear she was murdered by the system. He just ruined her life because if the charge he's making is that she assaulted a policeman, her new job and new life in a new town is gone forever. Not to mention the cost of getting her car back, paying bail, having an attorney. He ruined her in a matter of minutes, or made her feel so. Murder by system.)

[marym625]

41. absolutely. they are culpable in her death.

[cstanleytech]

26. "I want answers. What happened to Sandra Bland and why?"

Do you really? Even if the answers dont agree with your opinions?
For example what if in say a week or two the investigator that the family hired to examine her body comes back and determines that yes it was suicide? Are you willing to accept their report if thats what they determine?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

36. Whether or not anyone is unhappy with the answers, the questions need to be asked and

answered. And sometimes people reject the so-called answers because they are obvious BS. Reasonable people should not be expected to accept bogus answers.

Not to say the answers in this case will be, but often times they are.

[marym625]

42. Are you seriously asking me this?

I should just ignore you with such a demeaning and instigating question. But I will respond.

Whether or not she took her own life, they are culpable in her death. Will I accept that her life ended because she physically did something to end it? Yes. Will I accept they had no responsibility in it? Not a prayer.

There are many other questions that have nothing to do with her actual death. We have already seen enough that this cop should be fired but instead, he's being backed by the racist system and people that put him in that position.

I will not accept racist cops and prosecutors bullying people and doing illegal things that hurt people.

[cstanleytech]

46. Actually we agree on some things.

"Whether or not she took her own life, they are culpable in her death. Will I accept that her life ended because she physically did something to end it? Yes. Will I accept they had no responsibility in it? Not a prayer. "

I agree, if she told them of a past attempt then yes they were negligent and are partly to blame for her death and should be held accountable.

"There are many other questions that have nothing to do with her actual death. We have already seen enough that this cop should be fired but instead, he's being backed by the racist system and people that put him in that position. "
Again, I agree.

"I will not accept racist cops and prosecutors bullying people and doing illegal things that hurt people."
Nor do I and the officer I think should be fired for this.
However some people are refusing to accept the current evidence which is that she committed suicide and are instead supporting a murder theory without a foundation of evidence, thats my main issue.
I honestly try hard to base my opinions on what evidence is currently known rather than a theory that doesnt have a solid foundation of evidence to support it because if you start believing in things without evidence then imo you risk drifting off into region similar to that of the people who keep insisting that President Obama birth certificate is a fake or that a 2nd shooter involved President Kennedy assassination.

[marym625]

49. Didn't look like we disagreed on anything

I won't say I don't believe in conspiracies. Hell, that's what got us into the Iraq war. But I am also realistic. Unfortunately, the boundaries of what we used to believe was possible and what was not has been stretched beyond what I ever expected.

[immoderate]

60. Murder? Perhaps not, but they surely killed her.

--imm

[cstanleytech]

62. Agreed, they did contribute to it provided they knew of her past suicide attempts and

didnt take appropriate measures.

[Lee-Lee]

29. On your first question, passenger side approaches are the standard in most departments now.

For several reasons.

If it's an interstate of busy freeway they are safer from traffic. That road wasn't bad enough for it, but you get in the habit and stay in it.

It allows the officer to better see all inside the car as well as the drivers actions and how they move both of their hands.

In the event that the driver attempts to shoot the officer on initial approach the officer is farther away and can more easily get more distance and out of the drivers line of sight.

In the event the driver decides to flee they will flee back into the lane of travel- the officer is less likely to be run over if approaching on the passenger side.

I was trained to always do a passenger side approach unless it you in a steep downhill like into a ditch, and after that to mix up sides based on whatever your comfort level says.

You will note he also touches the back of her car just under the trunk as he approaches- that is also textbook, he is leaving a fingerprint. That way should he get injured or killed and the persons flee in the car there is forensic evidence that this is the car he stopped- because tags can be swapped of stolen.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

35. If this is true,

If it's an interstate of busy freeway they are safer from traffic. That road wasn't bad enough for it, but you get in the habit and stay in it.

then why does he later come up to the driver side?

[Lee-Lee]

38. Read down a little and I answered that

That wasn't an interstate with fast and heavy traffic, so it want as much a concern. After the initial approach most departments allow an officer to go to whatever side they are most comfortable at that time.

One other big no-no for my agency and most others now is standing between the cars or having the occupants of the car stand between the cars. It used to be typical to have them stand behind the car and use the trunk to lay hands on, empty pockets during a frisk, etc. But there have been a number of cases now of oncoming traffic hitting the patrol car causing it to slam into the car ahead and anyone between them is now hurt or dead- so for safety most departments don't want people in between vehicles. So what many see as moving her "off camera" is probably just following proper safety procedure and getting both of them off the road and out from between the vehicles. But I would have to see the Texas Highway Patrols SOPs and training guide to say that for sure.

[marym625]

43. I appreciate your answers

I can understand the passenger side. I would like to see what he's done with other people in the same area.

I also understand not going between cars. However, he takes her way out of camera range and off the sidewalk. You can see that in the video taken by the bystander. So I don't buy it was anything except to take her off camera. The usual tactics of saying something contrary to what is happening is also used. Hum shouting for her to stay still while he's pulling her.

Do you know why he removed her glasses as soon as he cuffs her? That's a first for me. Never saw that before

[cstanleytech]

48. Off the side of the road is safest place really if you think about it, maybe they should

install angled cameras for a side view but otherwise its the safest place for everyone atm.
The middle of the road is way to risky and the front of either vehicle is risky because someone could like Lee pointed out rear end the vehicles causing them to go forward killing the officer and whoever is with them.

[marym625]

50. I understand that

But he took her well past the sidewalk, which can be seen in the video taken by the bystander.

I still want to know why he took her glasses off.

[cstanleytech]

61. Which is why I think police departments should consider adding more cameras for better

coverage, its not like the cameras are to bulky to do it either these days.
As for eye glasses I am not sure if they matter at this point we already know he came across as an asshole on the video with her and he could have just removed them to be even more of an asshole, granted there are other possibilities but like I said I am sure if they even matter now.

[marym625]

65. I think it matters

If that's not normal procedure, then it could easily be argued that he was intending to smash her into the ground before he supposedly was kicked. The mother fucker. I want this guy in jail, not just fired

[cstanleytech]

69. I think we will get lucky to just get him fired unless he screws up more

and starts bragging about it and someone happens to record him confessing to lying about being kicked then we might see some jail time.

[marym625]

77. I believe it will depend on if the DoJ and/or the ACLU

Get involved. Just read some interesting stuff from a constitutional lawyer. Looks like more than we realized was just outright against the law. Constitutional law.

[Lee-Lee]

74. 360 degree camera coverage would be a great thing

The technology is probably close to there to be able to do it integrated into a light bar.

It would require 5-8x the memory storage but I think that is doable these days if enough money is thrown at it.

It would probably cost much more to implement, but communities just have to demand it and be willing to fund it.

[Lee-Lee]

71. If someone is acting either combative or like they may

Resist or try and harm themselves an officer should remove and glasses or jewelry that could harm them should that happen.

it only takes this happening in the back of your car once to make you very cautious about not leaving anything they can hurt themselves with in it.

https://m.

[marym625]

73. Thank you

I suspect I don't want to watch that. I get the idea.

I have never seen a cop do that before. I'm glad to know the answer.

Not gonna lie, I am suspect of everything that cop did.

[Lee-Lee]

76. Thank you

Nothing wrong with being suspect, but I am glad you are keeping an open mind and willing to listen to and seek details from people who have done the job and not just jump to conclusions like so many on here.

The officer got too irritated too fast. While everything he did would have been within policy at my old department aside from the line "I'll light your ass up", it could have worked its way out differently.

Had he made it clear earlier he had written her a warning and not a ticket I suspect her attitude would have lightened up a good deal and she would have been less confrontational with him.

At the same time, had she not had such a bad attitude the whole time he likely wouldn't have gotten so irritated so fast.

Do I think he went into the stop with ill intent? No, primarily because he wrote a warning (and you can tell he did also for the previous stop). If you want to be an ass you write a citation. But he let her bad attitude change his attitude and get under his skin.

I won't lie- when I was cutting someone a break and letting them off with a verbal or written warning, or trying to get them help or out of trouble, and they kept an attitude with me it was one of the most irritating things. I pulled a woman over for not having a toddler properly buckled ( not buckled at all actually) and she turned out to be a grandmother who had just picked the child up because mom was drunk and worthless. She was having a bad day and my pulling her over certainly didn't help things and she let me know- I got a very grandmother style dressing down from her and couldn't get a word in edgewise as I was giving her a written warning. I didn't even get a chance to tell her I had another officer going by to get her a free car seat until he got there and walked up with it.

[cstanleytech]

78. So Lee here is a question then.

Do you think the officer in the Bland case should be fired or suspended? I will admit towards being fired but it would be interesting to hear your take on it.

[Lee-Lee]

80. I don't know enough to say either way

The language he used during the stop, with "I'll light your ass up" deserves disciplinary action for sure. I was a taser instructor, and one aspect of training is to be very clear with the threat "If you don't follow instructions you will be tazed" because most people don't know what a taser looks like and they are similar in shape and size to a gun. His use of "I'll light your ass up" could have been taken by her to mean many things, so in addition to being needlessly provocative language it was an ineffective threat as part of the taser use procedures. Your goal in bring the taser out is to try and gain compliance without using it first by using the threat of it- his commands were not effective in that goal.

Does that merit firing? On its own, no. Now if he has a history of problems like that one on his record, then maybe so depending on what his record is like. Until I kno his past history it's hard to say.

It does merit looking deeper at his performance- a review of archived dash cam footage, a review of his past history of traffic stops, citations and warnings to see if there is any pattern of racial disparity, and similar checks. And if more problems surface, then he needs to be gone.

At a minimum some retraining, suspension, probation and a deep hard look at past actions. If he already has a troubled history then this added on should warrant firing, or if they discover problems when reviewing his history the same applies.

[cstanleytech]

81. Fair enough, perhaps I was to hasty on the firing I will have to think on it.

[marym625]

79. I appreciate all your answers,

And I appreciate your commending me. But I have to disagree with a couple things you just said.

You just blamed her. This was absolutely not her fault. Even in your story, the woman wouldn't let you get a word in edgewise. Sandra Bland was not belligerent, she was not offensive, she was not argumentative. His attitude did this, not hers. Even the way he asked the same question to the earlier pulled over person, was completely different than how he asked her if she was ok. He was laughing with the first person. He was confrontational with her.

According to a couple constitutional lawyers, he absolutely violated her rights. And she had every right to defend herself once he put his hands on her.

Finally, he went after her because of the color of her skin. He chases her down before he ever saw her do anything illegal. Whether he wrote a warning or not, he absolutely meant to cause her problems for driving while black.

Again, I greatly appreciate your answers. But I do disagree with your assessment.

[Lee-Lee]

82. Your "Constitutional lawyers" are wrong

He was within his power to tell her not to smoke while detained for the stop- just as he would have been within his power to order her to keep her hands on the steering wheel with nothing in them, put her hands outside the car and keep them there, or anything similar.

Likewise, during the conduct of a traffic stop the order to exit the car is lawful.

The law and courts give broad discretion to police for the period a person is detained for a traffic stop in the name of officer safety, as they recognize that the interest of the government in having its agents perform their duty safely is of greater importance than what would be considered a de minimis, or minor, intrusion upon the person detaineds rights for that brief period. See Pennsylvania v. Mimms and related cases for more background.

Any command that would be judged as a de minimis impact on the persons rights is allowed, such as all those I mentioned, is lawful and has to be followed.

She was argumentative- when he requests she not smoke she becomes very arguemenative very quickly.

[marym625]

83. I don't have time right now

To link to it but every single attorney I have heard or read completely disagrees with him telling her to put out her cigarette. Even cops in Texas have stated that

I will get the information later. Sorry, I have movers coming in an hour

Thank you for your response

[gracielynn77]

84. NO The Constitutional Lawyers are quite correct!

You are correct that while conducting a traffic stop an officer can make a lawful order to exit the vehicle for his safety and a couple of other reasons. However in this case the stop was for all legal purposes complete. Encina had written the warning and all that was required was a signature. Had he asked her to sign it and she refused it could be a different story then he had cause to continue. Because he never asked her to sign and chose to instead harass her about a cigarette (He did not order her to put out, he asked her if she minded putting it out). From that point forward he was detaining her unlawfully. Flexing your muscle is not a legal reason to detain someone once the stop is complete!

[Lee-Lee]

86. Incorrect

Asking her to stop smoking before he continued with the stop (explaining the offense, the warning, giving follow up instructions, getting her signature and giving her a copy) was well within the scope of what he was allowed to do, just the same as if he had done any of the other things like tell her to keep her hands on the steering wheel, not put her hands in her pocket, etc.

It's wasn't an unnessecary delay, especially given she could have compiled in 2 seconds, and the stop was not competed yet.

I've done hundreds of traffic stops and every one held up to any challenge given in court. How many have you done?

[marym625]

87. not according to Texas law.

He didn't have a right to do anything about her refusal to put out her cigarette. He also had to give a reason for arrest and forcing her out of the car.

[Lee-Lee]

89. Could you cite the TX statute for that please? NT

[snot]

44. K&R'd!!!

[AllFieldsRequired]

51. Whether she strangled herself or not, she was murdered by police.

It simply doesnt matter the exact details of her death, she was murdered and there needs to be real justice.

[marym625]

52. Well, I would like to get whoever actually killed her

If it wasn't self strangulation. But you are right

[AllFieldsRequired]

53. The cop who pulled her over is guilty of at a minimum 2nd degree murder.

I dont know if individual police can be held civilly liable when they do horrific shit like this or not, hope so.

But the way to end this shit once and for all is to engage in a lawsuit with the city or county, whoever employs the police in this case, and sue them into a state of crippling despair.

[marym625]

56. I have said this before,

And I know it will never happen, but every single police department in the country should be completely dismantled and rebuilt from scratch. And this time, with community oversight, strict psychological testing, a competent hiring board and some serious training in dealing with people, de-escalating situations, etc etc etc.

I don't believe that things will really change until that happens

[AllFieldsRequired]

57. Agreed. We have become numb to conditions that are mind boggling.

By we I mean the white people, because I suspect the black people are anything but numb at this point.

[marym625]

58. There is absolutely no way we can know what it feels like

To be afraid to walk down the street and have to worry if you will be killed for the color of your skin. But I can honestly say I am not numb to what is going on. Though I agree, I think many are. And worse yet, many never cared to begin with.

[AllFieldsRequired]

59. I think we have been brought to numbness that is now evolving to rage on both sides.

The rage of one side is that they cant own black people anymore, the rage on our side is that anyone can think such disgusting thoughts.

[Uncle Joe]

63. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, marym.

[marym625]

66. Thank you!

Man there are a ton of unanswered questions in this thread!

[Uncle Joe]

68. Too many questions and not enough answers,

what happened to Bland was a travesty and far too common.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

64. Is drip drip drip character assassination the new thing?

It's sick!

You know, I finally saw the wwwhhhhooollllleeee Sandra Bland video. Got a completely different impression about her. The truncated version - the only one MSM has time to show :eye roll: - distorts the impression you get of Sandra. It's quite a while before she gets irritated, but the truncated video makes it appear otherwise.

[marym625]

67. It sure does

It's not until he tells her to get out of the car that she is anything but compliant. Even then, she complies, just obviously REALLY upset. And who wouldn't be?

[rbrnmw]

72. K&R

with a great big thank you for this post.

[marym625]

75. Thank you

[Ino]

85. It struck me as ominous when he asked her to put out the cigarette...

Like had already decided to order her out of the car, and asked she put out the cigarette in preparation for that order. (Not that this makes any difference to anything... just an observation!)

Yes, the whole thing stinks.

[marym625]

88. Definitely

He wanted to bring her down a few levels. Absolutely no two ways about it