Can Bernie Sanders BEAT Hillary Clinton?

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Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., talks about his push against income inequality and a possible presidential matchup between himself and Hillary Clinton in 2016.

Sen. Bernie Sanders' 2016 presidential campaign has been steadily picking up steam over the past several weeks. After announcing his candidacy for the ...

There's some real energy behind Bernie Sanders now. There's an authenticity about Bernie Sanders, and there's a frustration with the system.

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will debate six times ...

Wolf Blitzer Baffled by Bernie Sanders' Free College Plan: But What About Hillary?

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[Autumn]

1. He can and he will.

rec

[Laser102]

26. No

[Autumn]

29. Yes

[upaloopa]

80. I see why you locked my OP now

[BeanMusical]

57. Lol! That's deep.

[libdem4life]

111. Well, a two-digit post count often has other ramifications.

[PatrynXX]

86. yep...

he can win sure hope he does I have no wish to have a DINO running for president. people would rather vote for the Real Republican and I don't want to risk that.

[NCTraveler]

2. He can.

Clinton herself is proof of that. She is working 24/7 for our votes.

[whatchamacallit]

53. That's the thing right there - she's working 24/7 for our VOTES, but not for us. n/t

[NCTraveler]

55. I completely disagree with you.

But it also has zero bearing on the point being made. Nice you got to slide it in though. Didn't know your position. lol.

[BeanMusical]

58. Yep, totally agree.

[Buzz Clik]

3. Hillary Clinton is really really vulnerable, in both the primaries and the general. Sanders...

... is unelectable.

We may nominate him as totally representing our party, but he will have his ass handed to him in the general.

Bummer we don't have another superstar waiting in the wings. And we do not.

[Segami]

5. Bernie is a superstar....

you're just caught up with the noise spin that he's 'unelectable'............Kool-aide for all......we'll eat Ben & Jerry's.

[Buzz Clik]

14. No, he is not a superstar. He is just super popular with a tiny fraction of the Democrats.

Have we learned nothing in the past 20 years? Have we not observed time and again the crashing and burning of niche candidates who have no appeal outside their small groups? Can you say Howard Dean? And he's just one of a dozen...

[daleanime]

24. Not so tiny....

and that's leaving out his popularly with independent and even some republican voters. Our problem as democratic voters is that Bernie's biggest challenge is Hillary, but Hillary's biggest challenge (if she gets pass Bernie) is the general election.


And no I not saying that Bernie would be a slam dunk in the general, no body would be silly enough to say that about their candidate.

[Buzz Clik]

32. Yep. Time will tell.

I'm on record with my predictions...

[daleanime]

50. Sorry, but your predictions.....

are very far down on the list of my concerns.


Have a great day.

[Buzz Clik]

60. Are your concerns on my radar? Not at all. I don't even know who you are.

I don't care if you have a great day or not.

[daleanime]

70. Probably means....

that I have plenty of company.

[Buzz Clik]

78. Without question.

Visit the Sanders forum. You will feel right at home.

[BeanMusical]

61. Lol! Well said.

[Laser102]

34. Careful. Pointing out truths here will get you in trouble.

[libdem4life]

42. Wow. 48 posts and you've already got this thing down.

[Segami]

43. Bingo!

[BeanMusical]

67. Lol! But they read a lot before registering 10 years later.

[libdem4life]

72. Yea, those lurkers had a long lurk life but likely a short post life.

[BeanMusical]

76. Yep.

[frylock]

89. It's shit like this that will make Sanders' victory all the sweeter.

[whatchamacallit]

56. He's a superstar to this voter

Is it your notion that everyone must factor conventional wisdom (bullshit) into their choice? Fug that.

[Buzz Clik]

62. Is there anything in any of my posts that would even remotely suggest that? No.

What the fuck is it with Sanders supporters? I swear to God you people want everyone to hate you, and you're making that really easy.

[whatchamacallit]

68. The post I responded to

has exactly that message

[Buzz Clik]

77. Really.

I said, "Everyone must factor conventional wisdom into their choice."?

Well, I didn't say it, but you read that into my post.

Great job.

Have the last word.

[whatchamacallit]

83. You got me

You didn't use those words. But what is the meaning of your post, if not heed conventional wisdom?

[arcane1]

75. What we've learned in the past 20 years is the status quo doesn't work

What do they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

[Buzz Clik]

79. That's my point.

But, you aren't getting it.

[Trajan]

16. +1,000,000 ....

I'll have a double Chocolate Therapy cup with chocolate syrup, caramel, whipped cream and nuts ...

THANK YOU Bernie-Jesus!

[Go Vols]

40. +1

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. How is HRC really, really, vulnerable in the primaries?

She is hugely popular among rank and file Democrats and even more popular among POC and glbtq Democrats who represent about 35% of Democratic primary voters?


The GE is far away but I rather have her hand than the hand of her presumptive Republican opponent, wouldn't you?

I really don't want to discuss Bernie's chances because I am loathe to criticize Democratic office seekers.

[Buzz Clik]

12. Obama showed this in 2008. She is carrying a ton of baggage and she triangulates endlessly.

I'd love to support her unconditionally, but I cannot. (I support her candidacy, but damn).

The GE is far away but I rather have her hand than the hand of her presumptive Republican opponent, wouldn't you?

Absolutley, regardless of who the Republican may be.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Democrats are aware of her baggage and still give her favorability ratings in the 80s.

I can't wrap my head around the argument that because Obama beat her Candidate X could. Barack Obama was vital, was Hollywood handsome, was charismatic, and had the blessing of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. When he won IA and demonstrated to our fellow African American Democrats he had crossover appeal they abandoned Hillary in droves. That's what killed her campaign. If she could have even mitigated her losses among African Americans she would have won. As it is she still received nearly 50% of the primary vote.

My concern is the general... I like our hand but not enough to go the proverbial pot on it.


I will not dispute that HRC is a flawed candidate but one thing about the Clintons is they know where the sweet spot is in the electorate and know how to occupy it.

Plus Team Clinton knows negative campaigning. They took poor Bob Dole apart in 1996 when they "made" the unpopular Newt Gingrich his running mate.

[Buzz Clik]

21. You and I are very close on this. Hillary is my favorite at the moment.

I like Bernie; O'Malley has to win me over. My gut is that Clinton is our only chance in the general.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. The recent spate of polls give me pause

The recent spate of polls give me pause but it's still very, very, very... early and she is still beating her presumptive GOP opponents, albeit by much less than comfortable margins.

I often think how much of the electorate is really in play, probably only five to seven percent, so all the billions that will be spent will be spent to persuade such a small sliver of the electorate, crazy?

[tularetom]

44. Yeah that job that "Team Clinton" did on Obama in 2008 was a thing of beauty wasn't it

Really took him apart.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. Do you mock people in real life?

[Bobbie Jo]

95. Doubt it.

Anonymity + Mob rule = License to mock and attack at will.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

96. Buzz Click and I were having a civil conversation.

In real life , if two people were involved in a conversation and someone barged in and mocked one of those involved in the discussion they run the risk of getting punched in the face. That's why most folks don't willy nilly mock strangers in real life.


I really don't believe that's debatable.

[Number23]

118. Nailed it as usual, BJ. If only the rec count and primary votes

could be half the number of insults these folks toss around daily, all while shrilly screaming how NON thin-skinned they are, Bernie would have had this on lock YESTERDAY.

That man deserves better than these folks. He really does.

[L0oniX]

31. Bernie will win or Hillary will lose the GE.

This message brought to you by the progressives who won't be thrown under the bus again.

[Buzz Clik]

33. Nobody threw any progressives under the bus.

[L0oniX]

37. "Obama Throws Us Under the Bus"

http://www.progressive.org/news/2008/12/124918/obama-throws-us-under-bus

[Buzz Clik]

59. December 2008. Wow. A month before inauguration.

Do you believe that Obama is a socialist Kenyan, too? I can get you internet articles proclaiming that.

I am not going further with you on this issue. Have the last word.

[BeanMusical]

64. Socialist Kenyan?

So you're putting this poster at the same level as teabaggers?

[Buzz Clik]

65. Same level of bullshit, absolutely.

Another Sanders supporter acting horribly. Welcome to the ever growing club, pal.

[BeanMusical]

69. Well what you're saying is nauseating.

Another Hillary supporter acting horribly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. I love Obama and Hillary...

I like Bernie too...


We have an embarrassment of riches in our party.

[sabrina 1]

90. Bernie Sanders will destroy any Republican in the GE. The primary is what he has to win first.

Hillary isn't going to get the votes of those who are thoroughly disillusioned with the whole system, many of whom are now part of that huge voting bloc, Independents, bigger than either base of either party with a historical 42% - 46% of registered voters.

Bernie will also get the non-voters, equally disgusted with the same old 'politics'. I signed one of them up to register as a Dem this week who hadn't voted for years. She will not, however vote unless Bernie is the candidate.

[NightWatcher]

4. A black guy with the middle name Hussein beat her last time

So yes she's beatable, she's not destined to win. It's why we have campaigns, to work through all this stuff.

[workinclasszero]

6. No BHO in this race though

Just sayin.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Why do these folks keep suggesting Bernie is a proxy for Barack Obama?

Is it because they are both politicians?

I wouldn't say some guy in the NBA is a proxy for LeBron James just because they played basketball.

[NightWatcher]

9. Bernie's crowds are reminiscent. He's got the vibe

And unlike Obama, Sanders is actually a socialist (little S).

[BeanMusical]

74. Yes, he's the real deal.

And I've become very cynical because of Obama. Once bitten twice shy.

[Drunken Irishman]

82. Ron Paul had the crowds too...

Crowds are not a good indicator of support or Ron Paul would've handed Mitt Romney his ass in 2012. The fact is, Bernie is still behind both Clinton and Biden in the most recent primary poll - and polling in the range Obama was nowhere near at this point eight years ago.

The RCP average of primary polls has Bernie at an average of 10.8% - with Hillary at 61 (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html).

At this point in 2007, Hillary led with 34.6% of the vote and Obama came in second of their average 23.4 (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html)

That means Hillary is doing 27 points better today than she was in 2007. Sanders is doing 13 points worse than Obama in 2007. That's a difference of 40 points! Even then, Hillary barely lost the nomination to Obama.

Bernie has a lot of ground to make up before people compare him to Obama. Until he gets within fifteen or so points of Hillary, I think anyone who predicts Bernie is a lock to beat Hillary, especially citing Obama, is either purposely trying to fool themselves or are clueless.

[fredamae]

10. No, Bernie Can't

But WE Can!

VOTE For Bernie en masse'. That's all it's gonna take.

Bottom line: It's All up to "us".

[whatchamacallit]

63. I agree

[fredamae]

98. Thanks...It is

the bottom line of a successful Grassroots organization And Participation (VOTING).

[whatchamacallit]

100. Nothing the resistant establishment can do about a juggernaut :) n/t

[fredamae]

104. No...

They can "tell us" All sorts of discouraging things...they Can Try to make a Big Huge Scandal out of thin air...But
If "we ain't buying what they're selling" will "it" still make a noise?

[azmom]

88. It's a political revolution for democracy.

Si se puede.

[fredamae]

97. Yes it Is and Yes, it Is :) n/t

[lonestarnot]

11. Yes he can.

[kenfrequed]

13. Yes.

People are starving for good solid policy.

[peecoolyour]

17. If he had ZERO chance, they'd ignore him.

And wouldn't feel the need to shoot down the question every single time someone raised it.

[hootinholler]

18. Like a drum n/t

[bigwillq]

19. Yes

Hillary is the favorite at this point, but I think any potential DEM candidate can win the nomination.

[jberryhill]

20. I guess we'll have to wait and see

What's wrong with that?

[Laser102]

22. No.

[L0oniX]

36. Welcome to DU. I hope you enjoy your time here.

[peacebird]

39. Gross overstatement. I'm a woman, & voting for Bernie

[Laser102]

49. I think you should. Have nothing against him. I like him.

It's just that I have burned before and am reluctant to go down the road again. I felt that way about Howard Dean and had my heart broken.

[libdem4life]

48. Please enjoy this 5 minute story...any political inferences are intentional and with forethought.

Most all famous children's books are parables or lessons in preparation for adulthood.

[Laser102]

51. Oh how sweet. Thank you.

[libdem4life]

54. Kind of takes us back to childhood which is a good thing to remember what we learned in Kindergarten

[L0oniX]

27. Wolf Blitzer Baffled ...again?

[Segami]

35. LOL! Even Trump beat Wolfie,....

[NRaleighLiberal]

28. anything can happen in American politics.

[rock]

30. For the 100th time

He can. For variety I suggest you ask next time, "Are we there yet?" In case you can't tell, my tone is friendly.

[cantbeserious]

38. Yes He Can

eom

[peacebird]

41. Yes he can. There is a very real & deep dissatisfaction in the country. Bernie is reasonating across

Party lines.

[Rex]

45. I don't know.

[Auggie]

46. No. Media & Corporate America will not allow it.

[Jackpine Radical]

71. That choice may no longer be in their hands.

[Auggie]

99. I hope you're right. We've already seen how Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean were stifled ...

perhaps this time will be different.

[Jackpine Radical]

105. We need to make a major change of direction in a hurry,

and I guess my sense of things is a whole lot like the one that causes desperate people to buy lottery tickets: A slim chance is better than none. Anyway, people certainly never resonated to Dennis in the same way they do with Bernie. I think there is something there that takes his case beyond the realm of the statistical and other predictive models, and beyond easy attackability. People may just perceive garbage-type attacks on Bernie as grossly unfair, and they may backfire like that disgusting "Hillary clip" that's probably still making the rounds of the Wingnut Echo Chamber. As for substantive attacks, let the chips fall where they may.

With Bernie, what you see is what you get. There's no not-there there.

[Auggie]

108. That's provided Sanders' message gets out

It needs repetition, but with media hand-picking sound bites and conservative parts of the country relying on the six o'clock news for their information, I don't see it happening. Especially when you add in the usual think tank corporate P.R. bullshit used to discredit anything that does get out.

If Clinton can keep it to just one debate it will be plus for her.

I'm hoping I'm wrong Jackpine Radical. It's hard not to be cynical.

[Jackpine Radical]

110. I want the world to have a future.

You wanna do something useful?

See what you think of this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128011228

[Auggie]

116. I love it ... excellent idea and approach

[raouldukelives]

106. The choice is always in their hands. One can stand with corporations or one can stand with democracy

Or at the very least, not a democracy that operates only for the corporations, but one that functions for all people.

[Jackpine Radical]

107. I think you misunderstood my post.

The referent for my "their" is the Corporate Media.

My point is that social media & person-to-person contacts are of growing importance, while CM is playing to a diminishing portion of the population for diminishing amounts of time.

[raouldukelives]

113. Understood. I just consider anyone who invests in the corporations, standing with them.

Corporate news is for the benefit of the shareholders. To report the truth could damage profitability. They have a fiduciary responsibility to keep their investments safe and telling them truth would be bad for the bottom line.

[Jackpine Radical]

114. I just think of Corporate News as the highly profitable propaganda arm

of the Corporate State. It makes everything they do so easy to understand.

[whatchamacallit]

52. Thanks! Will share.

[Kalidurga]

66. Yes he can one venue at a time

he draws large crowds even on short notice. He is not only going to get some support by people who are now okay with Hillary. But, he is going to get new voters. He will get independents. And he will win the general election if he gets the nomination.

[Vinca]

73. It's still a long way off and I think there is a chance he can.

When Hillary is being "natural," she looks impossible to beat, but I'm afraid her campaign handlers shroud her in bubble wrap and try to protect her too much. When they do let her speak it seems overly scripted. She keeps having "conversations" but doesn't seem to converse a whole lot. I love Bernie's passion. He almost doesn't need the big bucks the other campaigns are raising because he makes himself available to anyone at any time to talk about anything . . . no holds barred. You might not agree with him 100%, but I guarantee you know where he stands.

[upaloopa]

81. You know as well as I the MSM needs a horse race

to get ratings and revenue. If Hillary looks too much like a sure thing nobody is going to tune in.
Too bad the Bernie folks here can't see that.

[TAMPABAY]

84. Early Polls

Another thing I think is worth noting, Hillary's leads against the top Republicans aren't what they were a few months ago. The real clear politics averages have her up only 5 against Bush, 4 against Rubio and 3 against Paul. Walker I think was 7. Also, she is polling below 50% in all of the poll aggregates against them. Its early, but I think it wise to question people who say she is a slam dunk win.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html

[tritsofme]

85. Simple answers to simple questions: No. nt

[Marr]

87. Obama convinced me anyone can win-- if they have a popular, populist message.

He wasn't actually as left as he portrayed himself, of course, and he only positioned himself a few inches to Hillary Clinton's left-- but it was enough to allow a black man with a name that recalled our two biggest national bogeymen of the day to beat the consummate party insider and 'inevitable' winner.

This country is sick of this hyper-polished, focus-group-tested, corporate political process that has become so ridiculously predictable that party insiders on both sides of the aisle regularly end up in elections with the barest slivers victory margins. That's how tired and stagnant this crap has become-- and people are rejecting it.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

92. As loyal Democrats...

we have been searching for a candidate that represents the middle class for decades.

We were entranced by Mr. Obama, we thought this was change and hope.
While a great deal of greatness was done by him, he represents the 1%.

We have sat on the sidelines and watched, commented upon the unrest in other countries that dismissed the middle. We cheered for them. We wrote opinions about why this change can't happen here, while we wished it could.

We railed about corporate control, no paying of taxes, complete disregard for employees, and on and on and on.

Now, with a candidate that shouts our opinions, backs them up by facts, runs a clean campaign, we return to the fucking establishment. Some want to embrace a person that is the epitome of what is wrong with this country.

We cheer the things that Bernie espouses. We all want it. Not only here as very loyal Dems, but I see his word resonating across all political and social spectrums.

Yes, Bernie can win. He probably should. He should if we stand by the convictions we hold so dear in our hearts.

Only you, only you, can make the change.
You are one, but your voice reaches many, those voices reach more. Spread the word, use any outlet you can. Get this agenda out to the majority.

EOR. End of rant.

[SmittynMo]

93. Of course he can,,,,,, and will

He's a rolling stone. Get out of his way.

[Puzzledtraveller]

94. Handily

[99Forever]

101. He will.

And We the People with him.

[Egnever]

102. It is possible

Not likely though.

He certainly can't if he continues to pull stupid stunts like he just did with the patriot act vote.

Sure there will be a lot of suckers that buy the shuck and jive just like they bought Edwards nonsense. Amazingly the general electorate tends to see through the film flam men.

I had high hopes for Bernie but that cloture vote opened my eyes to the reality behind the mask.

He has a big hill to climb to beat the Clinton machine he is not going to get there by pulling stunts.His brand is his supposed principles. Hard to take that seriously when he betrays them so openly.

[misterhighwasted]

103. He has to catch her first.

Good luck

[brooklynite]

109. Do you know why candidates hire campaign managers and staff?

...it's because they're smart enough (usually) to know that there's a lot more to winning than having a compelling message. They need to identify specific demographic chunks of the electorate in specific states and expend resources to compell those voters to actually vote. Dean had great crowds at his rallies, but most voters don't go to rallies, and even if they were willing to, the candidates date can't do retail campaigning with most of them. That means paid staff on the ground, and advertising in large states. Nobody's pointed to a set of States that Bernie should target to win 2000-odd delegates, or explained where he'll get the funancial resources to compete in them.

[AtomicKitten]

112. Feel the Bern!

[immoderate]

115. We need a president who doesn't worship Reagan -- like Bernie!

And of course he can win. It requires enough votes. There is no natural barrier to Bernie getting the office.

--imm

[KamaAina]

117. Replace "Bernie Sanders" with "Barack Obama"

and you've got a post from 8 years ago.