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Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:10 AM

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I have no right to offer my opinion, but I think this goes beyond police

brutality. I am in no way diminishing the horror of police brutality and the contempt that it demonstrates for black people.

To me, the phrase "black lives matter" encompasses more than the right to not be treated as rabid animals to be put down, or swept out of the way into a nightmarish prison system.

In city after city, and town after town, black people are marginalized, stereotyped and then conveniently forgotten.

There's a mountain of blame to go around.

Republican economic policies which dominate, are not insignificant. When we talk about the ever increasing gulf between the rich and the rest of the population, the people that suffer most under those policies are people of color.

I'm not saying this well, but I do believe this: When you marginalize people, when you treat them as disposable and strip them of dignity through a steady stream of cultural contempt and brutality, that some of them, particularly young men, react by acting out on the rage that's been inculcated and building; that shouldn't be a surprise.

We need to start with police departments, and minor tweaks won't do it. It's so bad and there's such egregious civil rights abuses extant in so many police department that I believe it has to start with the Justice Department. But we need to think beyond that: The Judicial System, the education system, prison reform, the social safety net, and on and on. It's daunting.





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Reply Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I have no right to offer my opinion, but I think this goes beyond police (Original post)
cali Apr 2015 OP
bravenak Apr 2015 #1
cali Apr 2015 #2
bravenak Apr 2015 #4
raven mad Apr 2015 #85
bravenak Apr 2015 #86
raven mad Apr 2015 #89
bravenak Apr 2015 #90
raven mad Apr 2015 #91
bravenak Apr 2015 #92
raven mad Apr 2015 #93
yuiyoshida Apr 2015 #104
newfie11 Apr 2015 #3
Nay Apr 2015 #73
calimary Apr 2015 #88
newfie11 Apr 2015 #103
ProfessorGAC Apr 2015 #5
cali Apr 2015 #7
CTyankee Apr 2015 #36
StarzGuy Apr 2015 #72
CTyankee Apr 2015 #77
Stryst Apr 2015 #81
marmar Apr 2015 #6
Hoyt Apr 2015 #8
leftofcool Apr 2015 #9
cali Apr 2015 #12
Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #34
TexasProgresive Apr 2015 #10
tk2kewl Apr 2015 #11
CrispyQ Apr 2015 #53
N_E_1 for Tennis Apr 2015 #13
cali Apr 2015 #15
N_E_1 for Tennis Apr 2015 #18
lovemydog Apr 2015 #14
Fumesucker Apr 2015 #16
cali Apr 2015 #19
Fumesucker Apr 2015 #23
-none Apr 2015 #50
marym625 Apr 2015 #38
Fumesucker Apr 2015 #41
marym625 Apr 2015 #45
lovemydog Apr 2015 #49
Fumesucker Apr 2015 #52
brush Apr 2015 #63
Name removed Apr 2015 #96
Fumesucker Apr 2015 #100
greymattermom Apr 2015 #17
bvar22 Apr 2015 #87
mopinko Apr 2015 #20
cali Apr 2015 #22
mopinko Apr 2015 #27
democrank Apr 2015 #21
pampango Apr 2015 #24
phantom power Apr 2015 #25
randome Apr 2015 #26
cali Apr 2015 #30
msanthrope Apr 2015 #28
cali Apr 2015 #35
msanthrope Apr 2015 #37
cali Apr 2015 #56
msanthrope Apr 2015 #69
cali Apr 2015 #71
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #67
Cryptoad Apr 2015 #29
lostnfound Apr 2015 #31
marym625 Apr 2015 #32
daleanime Apr 2015 #33
The Wizard Apr 2015 #39
freebrew Apr 2015 #40
shaayecanaan Apr 2015 #114
LiberalArkie Apr 2015 #42
Thespian2 Apr 2015 #43
GGJohn Apr 2015 #44
nruthie Apr 2015 #46
Paka Apr 2015 #47
get the red out Apr 2015 #48
L0oniX Apr 2015 #51
Saviolo Apr 2015 #54
Joe Chi Minh Apr 2015 #55
closeupready Apr 2015 #57
NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #58
brush Apr 2015 #59
jeff47 Apr 2015 #60
Enthusiast Apr 2015 #61
Solly Mack Apr 2015 #62
LittleBlue Apr 2015 #64
Duval Apr 2015 #65
hamsterjill Apr 2015 #66
valerief Apr 2015 #68
Name removed Apr 2015 #95
arcane1 Apr 2015 #97
blackspade Apr 2015 #70
raouldukelives Apr 2015 #74
cali Apr 2015 #78
raouldukelives Apr 2015 #79
cali Apr 2015 #80
marym625 Apr 2015 #75
heaven05 Apr 2015 #76
mrdmk Apr 2015 #82
d_legendary1 Apr 2015 #83
hifiguy Apr 2015 #84
Name removed Apr 2015 #94
cyberswede Apr 2015 #98
malaise Apr 2015 #99
cali Apr 2015 #108
SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2015 #101
Kip Humphrey Apr 2015 #102
Rosa Luxemburg Apr 2015 #109
markpkessinger Apr 2015 #105
cali Apr 2015 #106
ChiciB1 Apr 2015 #107
Stellar Apr 2015 #110
chervilant Apr 2015 #111
cali Apr 2015 #112
BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #113

Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:13 AM

1. I agree, thank you.

 

You are right, the entire system is broken.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:14 AM

2. thank you bravenak.

 

I've learned a lot from you.

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Response to cali (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:17 AM

4. Really? That's awesome.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:33 PM

85. We do what we can here, brave - you know how hard we work.

But if you want support for change, depending on oil and Kochsuckers (like the entire state does) we don't count.

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Response to raven mad (Reply #85)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:47 PM

86. The kochheads ruin everything.

 

We try so hard. Once the oil is gone, I bet the regressives leave the state in shambles for us.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #86)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:12 PM

89. It's already in a shambles.

The repukes have taken out about as much of the money that they can. When they go, so does our so-called government.

I won't regret that at all.

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Response to raven mad (Reply #89)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:15 PM

90. I think we can make it work well without them.

 

After Koch addiction ends, the recovery process begins. This is an awesome state. We can do it without oil. Might be more profitable to sell water anyway.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #90)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:15 PM

91. I KNOW we can. We did before Big Oil got here!

And we will again!

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Response to raven mad (Reply #91)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:17 PM

92. Yes We can!!!!!

 

Be nice to see the back side of the oil jerks.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #92)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:31 PM

93. And their hangers-on!

We did it before 'em, we can do it without 'em.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:33 PM

104. Agree too Bravenak

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:16 AM

3. That's exactly right

This happened in Watts, Washington DC, etc. in the 60's.
People can only take being treated this way for so long.

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Response to newfie11 (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:22 AM

73. Yes, it did, and we'll be having more riots very soon if these police depts. aren't

jerked up by their shorts hard.

What's sad is that the human race just can't seem to learn lessons easily. The Watts riots, etc., are within the living memory of millions of Americans, yet the lesson was not learned. And the lesson doesn't have to be taught with riots -- psychologists will tell you that if you snub and marginalize whole classes of people, they will endure it only up to a certain point, and we have reached that point. Look for more well-deserved riots all around the country.

Of course, the sociopaths who run this country are perfectly happy to shoot at anybody they deem uppity, so this sad show may go on for a while. Plenty of countries have shot up mothers for asking where their kids were disappeared to. Sadly, it will be up to corporate businesses who don't want shoppers scared away from their stores to stop riots. Such an inconsequential reason, but for this superficial country, it may be the only reason that works.

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Response to Nay (Reply #73)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:59 PM

88. Keeps taking me back to THE quote of the week so far.

I've heard it uttered several times since yesterday:

"Riots are the language of the unheard." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

MAN - are they EVER!!!!

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:30 PM

103. That is so true!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:18 AM

5. Good Post Cali

I just hope the system isn't broken beyond repair. Sometimes machinery does break to the point where it can't be fixed.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:21 AM

7. I'm troubled by the same thought, Professor

 

It's so mind bogglingly complex, systemic and long running, that it seems overwhelming.

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:17 AM

36. I was watching these events in horror...

there seem to be young people without hope, without dignity and respect, looking at NO future for themselves. How many of these individuals will end up dead at an early age because they have nothing to live for and yet they are so young, which is when you have dreams of the great things you will do. "death by cop" has never seemed more real...it is absolutely hideous...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #36)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:12 AM

72. I feel like in a strange way the same can be said about this white guy...

I know what it is like to live without hope for the future and living in poverty. You see, I once was in the middle class when I got sick. Now I am 100% disabled. I struggle to make ends meet with no hope of things getting better for me. I live on SSDI and a small pension. I'm not saying I have exactly the same situation as those youths in Baltimore, but I can recognize some of the anger they feel and are expressing in my own life now. That's all I am trying to say.

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Response to StarzGuy (Reply #72)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:42 AM

77. what a rotten hand you were dealt!

I am so sorry to hear of your health problems.

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Response to StarzGuy (Reply #72)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:08 PM

81. Right there with you brother

Serving my country in two wars, just to get sick and have to spend the rest of my days living on a check that doesn't cover rent anywhere.

And for these poor kids growing up in this situation, something has to change FAST. Rage, hopelessness, and despair are kind of like radiation poisoning; you never quite heal up all the damage.

Power to the people.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:21 AM

6. Absolutely Cali....


...... and news reports about incidents like these always miss the forest through the trees.


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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:24 AM

8. +1.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:28 AM

9. Excellent post.

You stated this extremely well.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:35 AM

12. thanks. I don't think I did at all

 

I'm frustrated that I wasn't able to express it better.

One of the things that popped into my mind was that quote about no one being able to strip you of your dignity without your consent. But how is that true if you've been treated with contempt instead of dignity throughout your life?

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Response to cali (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:11 AM

34. When a person has been treated with contempt their entire life, that life is permanently damaged

beyond repair. The only thing one can hope for in that situation is to find and hold on to their own internal truth and dignity with such a strong force that that becomes a motivating factor for creating good in the world.

Truly the ones lacking any dignity are those who create and sustain this organized intentioned oppression of others. We must find a way to delegitimize their systemic actions. We must create a system of equality and compassion for All separate from the current oppressor system.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:31 AM

10. Some opinions are better than others- yours is on the mark.

I am convince that you are right.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:33 AM

11. what is a surprise to me is that there are virtually zero...

 

young men of color acting out on the rage... their patience and ability to withstand this sort of treatment day in and day out while continuing to carry on is remarkable to me

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #11)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:34 AM

53. Which shows how systemic the problem is.

They have been conditioned since birth by a society that sees them as different & less than. I can't even imagine how this affects one's self esteem, self confidence & every other thing you think about yourself.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:37 AM

13. One tweak may be to....

Completely disarm police departments, except for extreme circumstances.

Works in other countries!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/18/5-countries-where-police-officers-do-not-carry-firearms-and-it-works-well/

Now let the bashing begin.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Reply #13)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:40 AM

15. I won't bash you but I will say that doing that would be a long (long) term thing

 

and we can't wait.

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Response to cali (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:48 AM

18. Yes it would take a while, no doubt...

But retraining and other steps to take toward a more fair and just system will take quite a while also. I believe disarming should be in the mix.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:38 AM

14. Oh, I agree cali.

Minor tweaks won't do it. This has been going on for years. For many generations the Great Depression never ended. Simply complaining about who is or may be President doesn't cut it either. It's way past that as well. It has to start at the bottom, from the grass roots, imho.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:43 AM

16. Mass incarceration started up during the Civil Rights era...

And continued right through the Clinton era and even unto this very day, the Democrats aren't much less responsible than the Republicans.





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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:51 AM

19. thanks for posting. Damn clear illustration

 

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:58 AM

23. I've never understood why disenfranchising their most loyal voting bloc makes any sense to Democrats

A more self-defeating policy is difficult to think of, the Democrats have pushed policy for decades that incarcerates blacks disproportionately and then they wonder why they lose elections.

To quote Forrest Gump, stupid is as stupid does.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #23)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:26 AM

50. Ever hear of the 3rd Way? The New Democrats?

I think your answer is there.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:25 AM

38. I'm sorry but "much less responsible" isn't acceptable

We need to be responsible for ending this and give no excuses otherwise.

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Response to marym625 (Reply #38)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:42 AM

41. Watching that line climb straight through the Clinton years tells you all you need to know

Clinton was famous for triangulating and he triangulated votes on the racist and bigoted drug war.

To put it succinctly, the political calculation is that the Democrats pick up more votes from cultural drug warriors than they lose to disenfranchisement among the black population. The politicians Democratic and Republican alike know they can trust the police not to push the drug war much at all on the elites so it really never enters the elite consciousness as any sort of real world problem.







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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #41)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:54 AM

45. +1

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #41)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:21 AM

49. No one thing tell you all you need to know.

Listen to everyone.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #49)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:31 AM

52. It tells you about mass incarceration and who supports it

The why isn't hard to figure out.

Overt Jim Crow was done for so covert Jim Crow was implemented via the drug war.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #52)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:01 AM

63. Martin O'Malley initiated that in Baltimore when he was mayor

Seems to me what happen to Gray is a holdover of that mindset still existing in the police department.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)


Response to Name removed (Reply #96)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:08 PM

100. Tell it to David Petraeus



Welcome to DU...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:46 AM

17. It's just consequences

Bad cops need to go to jail. Sitting at a desk for a few weeks is not punishment for murder.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:53 PM

87. The problem is much larger than that.

Just jailing a few cops won't fix it.
The problem is systemic, and extends to the highest levels of government.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:53 AM

20. st ronnie of raygun's assault on cities comes home to roost.

so many things that cities used to provide through block grants, like day care, alternative schools, community colleges, are a mess these days.
disinvestment in the safety net has resulted in too many people slipping through, and it is poc who are the first to hit the ground.

the cop thing is a symptom more than a cause, imho. just the end of a long line of failures.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:57 AM

22. Reagan policies figure prominently in the list of factors, I believe.

 

Thanks for adding that.

He certainly does manage to haunt us.

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Response to cali (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:03 AM

27. i sometimes think that he and shrub were chosen

specifically to degrade the office of the president. to make it a laughing stock. to undermine its authority, and the federal government's with it.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:54 AM

21. Important points, Cali.

Recommended

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:58 AM

24. Well said, cali. "minor tweaks won't do it". "it has to start with the Justice Department. But we

need to think beyond that: The Judicial System, the education system, prison reform, the social safety net, and on and on. It's daunting."

Nicely done.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:59 AM

25. I think you said it just right

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:01 AM

26. Maybe it really is Obama's fault.

 

A black man with style and intelligence -when compared to the last Great White Hope (an absolute dullard), can that serve to push over the edge the self-hatred of many entitled whites? You're right that the situation has existed for some time but I wonder what has changed to put it out in the open now?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:07 AM

30. OK, I'm going to demonstrate what a country bumpkin I am

 

things build up- like creosote in a chimney from a woodburning stove, and then, surprise, surprise, you get a chimney fire.

I do think that a black man being elected (twice) to the Presidency has inflated white rage, but I think the major factor as to why now, is that its built up.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:06 AM

28. cali, start here on DU. We need to end the race-baiting that is going on on DU.

 

It needs to be called out, taken seriously, and stopped. Right here on DU.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:13 AM

35. Is it race baiting here that is so much the problem

 

or is it the insular mind set of white privilege. I do think there's a difference though they aren't unrelated. We shouldn't tolerate race baiting here, of course, but I don't think that calling it out moves us toward solutions for the deeply rooted problems that are the result of institutionalized racism throughout our society.

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Response to cali (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:22 AM

37. Is it white privilege that makes race-baiting here invisible to some? And who gets to decide the

 

solution? Other white posters who don't think calling it out solves anything?

Or AA posters who are calling it out?

Read this post by Number23.....it says it all. Yeah...there's race baiting going on here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6576394

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:44 AM

56. I just served on a jury that adjudicated 4 to 3 to hide a really ugly

 

dog whistle post.

yeah, it needs to stop. Now.

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Response to cali (Reply #56)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:00 AM

69. The race baiting doesn't stop until prolific posters like yourself

 

help police this shit, and back up the AA posters on this site that have had enough.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #69)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:05 AM

71. I do a lot of that and I always have

 

but I don't read all threads. When I see it, I damn well do call it out.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:23 AM

67. That thread is a real eye opener

 

Thanks, I hadn't seen it.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:07 AM

29. Just "Growing pains" of a budding Oligarchy........

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:07 AM

31. Agree, but getting people engaged on police brutality FIRST is the path forward

They start working on and caring about this one issue, it will open their eyes and get them to LISTEN to the stories from these communities. It will be more effective in bringing down the walls and defenses they have, if it starts with one issue that they understand and can see with their own eyes.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:08 AM

32. absolutely no doubt

It pains me greatly when people don't see how the corpocracy is what allows such awful, systematic, institutionalized racism. More so, it causes the impossibility for change.



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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:10 AM

33. Of course it does....

and course we should.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:29 AM

39. We've become a nation of uniform worshipers

Last edited Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

We falsely believe that everyone in uniform is a hero and beyond reproach, thus opening the door for some of our worst elements to pass through as saviors who can act out their psychopathic fantasies under the color of law.
Since the election of our first president with a darker complexion, many of our worst elements have decided that it's their duty to even the score by assaulting minorities. And time after time they get away with it because of our police state mentality that became the rule rather than the exception after 9-11. We unconsciously were cowed into submission by a criminal Administration known as the the Bush cartel that demanded total submission. As such, the police were handed carte blanche to act out their sadistic fantasies at our expense. All we need to remember is the way the Occupy Wall Street protesters were treated by police. And all they were demanding was accountability from the Wall Street shysters and big banks that looted the Treasury under the threat of causing a world wide depression or chaos.
So when the real thieves who victimized every tax payer by giving themselves bonuses for failure using bailout money were called out by the public, the police acted to protect the big corrupt banks.
As Shakespeare's Marcellus in Hamlet famously said, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:30 AM

40. How I see it...

the latest economic downturn has, naturally, been worse on the poor and POC. Many joined the service through desperation from the lack of civilian jobs. Fairly uneducated, they get the worst possible indoctrination to the service because that's what the service does.
They see a 'war', have to shoot a bunch of people, then as it goes on, they feel powerful shooting people.

Then, they come back to no jobs, same as they left. The difference is the service gave them a skill: shooting people.

So, they are welcomed into local police departments, because, well, we have to honor our veterans and give them jobs. Besides, it's the only thing left.

We're left with a militarized police force, because that's where they were trained.

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Response to freebrew (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 07:26 AM

114. Criminal keynesianism

Essentially, the military and criminal justice system function as employers of last resort, even a safety net of sorts.

Crime requires police, courts, clerks, judges and lawyers. Plenty of jailers too. Basically, crime means jobs. In many places the slow grind of the criminal justice system is the only economic activity that there is. Spending money on jails and wars is also the only public spending for which there is reasonably broad bipartisan consensus.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:42 AM

42. It does, Hardly any of the Baltimore civil servants, fire or police even live in the city a

lot of them do not even live in Maryland. Like Ferguson, they have no connection to the people who do live there.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:44 AM

43. Great post

Will the systems be repaired? Perhaps the time for change is already passed. The 1% won, especially with their Israeli-trained police armies using the tactics they were taught...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:51 AM

44. Great post cali. eom.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:56 AM

46. The system is broken.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:13 AM

47. Good Points!

Thanks for the posting.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:19 AM

48. Good post

It is daunting though.........our country is really screwed up.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:27 AM

51. K & R One of your best ops.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:35 AM

54. Things are bubbling up

People are frustrated at being powerless in a land where the government is supposed to be of, by, and for them. People are tired of being broke when the CEOs are making bonuses many times the value of their houses every year on top of their lavish salaries while the workers' production has gone up and wages have not. People are tired of being told that they need to be peaceful, be patient, be quiet while members of their communities are targeted and killed by the people who are supposed to be protecting them.

It's going to get worse before it gets better, but I feel like it'll get better.

But we're still singing the same song over and over and over.


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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:42 AM

55. Spot on, Cali. Don't laugh at the contrast, but this

is, apparently, how the police are policed in Israel, at least when an incident is caught on film:

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Video-Police-filmed-beating-IDF-soldier-at-scene-of-suspicious-object-case-399319

Seemingly, not as conscientiously otherwise, but, heck, the Israelis at least have enough common sense and indeed sense of shame, to recognize the compelling, indeed, binding, nature of non photo-shopped video evidence.

My first impression was that the IDF soldier was to blame, but apparently, he was well within his rights to ignore the direction of the police guys in that context.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:45 AM

57. Thoughtful post, thanks. K&R

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:52 AM

58. Correct, this is a sympton of a MUCH LARGER problem, oppression of the many by the few.

 

And the people who are to blame are:

People who push for NAFTA, for globalization, for wars, for the Patriot Act.

I put the Clintons right in there with that group of the few.

So I wonder why so many think she'll help us.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:53 AM

59. Great post, 100% spot on! nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:57 AM

60. I think it goes even larger

Police violence against minorities is the most visible and most egregious offense.

But the general "wrong track" feeling goes beyond that. Mostly because ever since Reagan both parties have cared more about "wall street" than "main street". Sure, Democrats will throw out platitudes and try to put some band-aids over the most painful wounds, but they'll also fight like hell to pass "free trade" treaties.

We need to rein in the police and justice system because that is the worst problem at the moment. But we are also going to have to spend the next several decades fighting to focus our government on the people. It took us 40 years to create this dystopia. It's going to take longer to dismantle it.

But that timeframe does not excuse putting off the work. We need to get started now. Because the longer we let the rage simmer, the more violent and uncontrollable the explosion will be.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:00 AM

61. Great post!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:01 AM

62. K&R

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:06 AM

64. Agreed. We need to do something about a system that makes POC

 

a lower economic class. Until that happens, a Freddie Gray situation will always be likely to start a riot.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:11 AM

65. Well said, cali. nt

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:15 AM

66. You've stated this brilliantly.

And I agree.

I just feel bad for the people who get caught in the cross fire - as I think we ALL do. The employees of the CVS store that was burned and looted, etc. Those people did NOTHING to cause the loss of their livelihood, etc. The people who had cars burned, etc., are innocent victims based on being in the wrong place at the wrong time when a small group of unruly protestors decided to act badly.

I heard rhetoric on CNN last night from certain guests that was basically exempting the behavior of the people who burned and looted the store simply because they were 'young people with nothing to do'.

So let ME be very clear in what I mean here. I will NOT accept police behavior that treats one person differently than another. I understand that happens, is happening, and is going to continue to happen until change is brought about. I want that change myself and I expect it as an American citizen. I will not accept discrimination.

But I will never excuse someone for burning and looting a store, etc. that had nothing to do with the issue being protested. I don't care if young people have nothing to do. They have a sense of right and wrong and the perpetrators of the looting, etc. need to be brought to justice whether they be young, old, black, white, residents or outsiders.

It is proper, correct and necessary that the leaders who are working hard to bring about real change openly and vocally condemn the actions of the looters who got out of hand.



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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:45 AM

68. It's brainwashing. The brainwashing has to stop. A clean media means a clean society.

Our media fouls everything it touches. But then, who controls this damn dirty media? Whoever controls Justice and Congress.

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Response to valerief (Reply #68)


Response to Name removed (Reply #95)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:03 PM

97. The media shows you what they want to show you, nothing more n/t

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:04 AM

70. Completely agree.

It is a systemic problem that benefits the 1%

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:32 AM

74. If only they were just republican economic policies. nt

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Response to raouldukelives (Reply #74)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:44 AM

78. even when carried out

 

by democrats, they're still republican policies.

In any case, that's but point in the op.

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Response to cali (Reply #78)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:18 PM

79. I totally agree with your OP.

I just believe they are corporate policies and bear no particular allegiance to any party. Just the dollar, the relentless pursuit of it and those who choose to serve it over democracy.

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Response to raouldukelives (Reply #79)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:21 PM

80. I can't disagree with that.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:40 AM

75. kicking again

I find it funny that it depends on who says something for people to agree or disagree. Kind of sad

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:41 AM

76. welll!!!!

 

this one....

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:03 PM

82. K & R for being spot on, there is a bigger picture which is not being address




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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:17 PM

83. You're right. We need to stop this incestous relationship between

politicians, the police, and the courts. Each one of these guys is watching each other's backs. The police are never held accountable unless there is video evidence (though Eric Garner might be a different story), the courts allow these guys to go free, and the politicians refuse to go after these guys (probably afraid that the other two might gang up on them). These people have gutted our system of justice and have turned them into cushy jobs where accountability is no where to be found. The only result that they have to offer is victims of violence and grieving families.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:22 PM

84. A fine post, and it has to start with a massive overhaul of police departments

 

and police culture. Police "culture" is indistinguishable from sewage. Fire them all, start from scratch, city by city. Police unions have to go and that is the only union I have ever said that about. Civilian review boards - and I mean CIVILIAN with no police presence - that can advise that individuals be fired or otherwise removed from the force also need to be a part of the solution.

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #94)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:04 PM

98. Why do you want to be a member of a Democratic message board?

Just curious.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:05 PM

99. All of that is true but it is also about police brutality

and the killing of young men by the police

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Response to malaise (Reply #99)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:53 PM

108. yes, that's why I said that so emphatically in the op

 

and said that that's the first thing we need to address.

Not sure how you missed it.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:22 PM

101. I appreciate your reluctance to preach and proclaim

This place - DU - has a few "know-it-alls" who completely drown out their message with their own hubris.

I agree with you. The problems with inner city policing is deep and can't be exposed with body cams. Those prone to bigotry and violence should not be "peace officers" in the first place - IMHO.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:26 PM

102. I called Baltimore home for 25 years...

The Great Recession absolutely devastated many of its neighborhood. There are mile upon mile of derelict, abandoned row houses; it looks like Dresden Germany circa 1945. That people must live under such conditions for so long is bad enough, but to then subject them to a militarized police force that rules by intimidation and violence is unconscionable.

The very last thing that city needs is for up-armored Humvees carrying National Guard with live ammo locked & loaded on street corners providing the ultimate in citizen intimidation by their very presence. I saw a post here today of photos of a slew of different sports riots that a co-worker mistook for Baltimore. Not one of those riots resulted in National Guard mobilization.

Bottom line: the National Guard is not a substitute for a police force that has lost the respect and support of the population they are supposed to serve and protect.

Oh, but I forgot... A CVS was torched! Call in the troops!!!

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Response to Kip Humphrey (Reply #102)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:58 PM

109. When the armored Humvees leave then what?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:10 PM

105. Superb post, Cali!

Thank you!

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #105)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:49 PM

106. thanks for the kind words, mark

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:52 PM

107. It's Been Brewing For A Very Long Time IMO...

Just haven't seen much action. I asked last night on one post if this is the beginning of some kind of Revolution. I DO NOT THINK the curfew in Baltimore is going to go well. With a city this large it's hard for me to grasp that you can use a "cattle round-up" very effectively.

AND, they say they have a "plan" for what to do if people don't comply... betcha the plan is to put them in fenced up pens! I COULD be wrong too, but WHERE else can you put that many people, hard to imagine they're enough cells for hundreds and hundreds of people!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:02 PM

110. Beautiful....you got it!

"Peace if possible, but justice at any rate."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:07 PM

111. You are saying this exceptionally well:

When you marginalize people, when you treat them as disposable and strip them of dignity through a steady stream of cultural contempt and brutality, that some of them, particularly young men, react by acting out on the rage that's been inculcated and building; that shouldn't be a surprise.


These frenzied, brutal, militarized police have got to go. And, those who've murdered our younglings should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #111)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:11 PM

112. I thought it was a bit muddled, but I'm glad you got what I was trying to express

 

Thanks

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:50 PM

113. K, R, Bookmarking.

Quite a collection of wisdom here.

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