a hypothetical question.

[mopinko]

so, take off the table, for now, the idea of continuing w no trade treaties w china and japan. we know they can and will roil the american economy from time to time no matter what we do. steel dumping, polluting industries, we really need to have some agreement on fair trade.
so the answer "no trade deal at all" is not relevant to this hypothetical discussion.

what would a fair and useful trade deal with china and japan look like?
what environmental and labor provisions would you propose, exactly?
what would intellectual property rights look like?
what imports would you crack down on?
how would it be enforced?

feel free to add your "if i had a magic wand" side agreements.

[cali]

1. huh? Japan is part of the TPP. China is not

This isn't an old fashioned trade agreement about tariffs or even about goods in the traditional sense. And Japan as far as labor and human rights standards isn't a major concern.

In any case YOU go first.

[mopinko]

2. it's hypothetical.

i believe it is still allowed here to just ask a question.

[cali]

3. sure, but your hypothetical question doesn't make much sense

[mopinko]

4. imagine a fair trade deal doesnt make sense?

it doesnt make sense to say- i see what you are against, now tell me what you are for?
mmmkay.

[fadedrose]

5. Hypothetical response

Not so much a reply, just a response.

For one thing, people should be paid for the amount of actual labor they do and how it affects their health.

They should get more if brains, skills, talent, looks, and originality are needed to do their jobs.

Getting back to "labor," people who do cleaning work pretty hard and ruin their bodies, knees, backs, skin, fingernails, toes, eyes, ears, etc., and should be paid much more than what they are. some cleaning is very very difficult. Using chemicals and heavy equipment is usually part of their jobs. And they also need skills and originality, and strength.

Put the CEO in a filthy bathroom with no one willing to clean it for him/her and things would change.

Trade agreements not as important as fairness in paying people what they are worth. My response covers people in all the countries involved in the treaties.

[mopinko]

6. thank you.

fair wages should absolutely be a part of the deal.
some american companies are working to make sure that foreign producers are following good labor practices, but it is hard for a single company to impact the practices and cultures of places around the world. some, obviously, are more interested in looking fair than being fair.
this is why we need high level trade agreements so that basic minimums are enforced by law.

i dont have a problem so much with the labor costs being set according to prevailing wages in the country, as long as they are fairly set, work conditions are safe and sanitary, and, as you say, the actual skills and physical toll of work on workers is part of that wage.

[TheKentuckian]

7. Does it increase American jobs, raise American wages, increase our labor protections and enhance our

ability to unionize, does it raise our environmental standards and put the participants on a course to seriously mitigate the harms of climate change, the toxicity of our oceans, and protect the diversity of life.
Does it end the practice of day labor slavery around the world?
Does it take the American taxpayer off the hook for global security?

[mopinko]

9. mostly agree, but

not entirely sure how your last item fits into a trade deal.

i would, absolutely, love to see an end to the way we subsidize the merchants of death. our "foreign aid" is mostly military aid that gets kicked right back to american arms merchants. or big contractors like bechtel and carlyle. and catepillar, which has been trying crush it' union for years.

we have a peace corp. we dont use it, or use it all that well. when the peace corp budget is even 1/10th of the pentagon budget, we will be on the right path.

[TheKentuckian]

14. Only 5 of the 29 chapters we are currently getting jammed down our throats is directly about trade

Though I argue that security of trade routes and resource aqquistion are perfectly reasonable issues for a discussion on trade.

If the world wants trade it is the responsibility of each participant to help provide the security required rather than something provided by robbing American workers of a safety net.

[KingCharlemagne]

8. Question in response to your question. (I do not follow international

trade agreements closely.) What is the current trading status of China and Japan vis-a-vis the U.S.? I would assume each nation enjoys Most Favored Nation trading status, but beyond that I haven't a clue.

[mopinko]

10. i believe you are correct, but

the question is really, what would you do if you had the power to write the bill? actual reality is sort of a moot point.

[KingCharlemagne]

11. Ah, geez, this (international trade) is not my forte, so I don't have a clue, other than to insist

upon the broad principle that every producer in each country covered by the agreement be subject to a 'carbon tax,' proceeds of which to be used to mitigate effects of global climate change and administered by the U.N. or other international body mutually agreeable to all parties to the treaty.

ETA: Recommending for the good discussion your question should inspire.

[mopinko]

12. a carbon tax would be a great idea.

it should be shouldered on a global level.

i wish there was more imagination out there on climate change. i have a fantasy of governments starting sustainable cities on higher ground BEFORE the mass migrations that climate change WILL kick off.

a plan to deal w climate refugees should be front and center in any discussions of what to do about it. we arent going to stop it in time to prevent serious sea level rise. we really need to be assessing and responding to the needs that are obviously going to arise. sea walls will save some places, but i fear large chunks of the planet are going to become uninhabitable and that is just that.

[mopinko]

13. here is one i would like to see- soils.

topsoil is our most precious resource, but it is a thin film on this blue marble, and it is blowing away.
it is really not even that hard to make new soil. a lot of what goes to landfills here could easily be made into good, rich soil.
a lot of what we flush down the drain could be reclaimed and turned into good soils. here in cook county, water rec is now mixing wood chips into waste solids to make better soil. such simple things.

and yet, no one is even talking about this. we should be encouraging and helping farmers and land owners everywhere to improve their soils as part of any food deal.

2015 is, btw, the international year of soils.

[liberal_at_heart]

15. This is why so many are angry and fighting mad. The reason you won't hear about helping farmers

make good soil as part of a trade deal is because of corporations like Monsanto. I'm still on the fence about whether GMOs are harmful to consume but I do agree that Monsanto has the most horrible business practices. Corporations are corrupt, and not just in the US. They are corrupt globally and we must demand that they change their business practices.

[NYC_SKP]

16. I'd make and grow everything right here.

If I had that wand!

[mopinko]

17. me too, of course.

ZERO government interference w small/urban farmers would be a great global goal. i would settle w for the city of chicago figuring out why the left hand is trying to wreck what the right hand is doing.

and it would help if we werent polluting out waterways w soil, fertilizer and manure run off. lots to do in our own back yard. hard to imagine how these things work in china.

[kentuck]

18. How many Chinese and Japanese jobs are leaving their countries?

When it is more balanced to American jobs leaving America, then it would be more fair.