WATCH CHRIS MATTHEWS TONIGHT.

[Atman]

Great rundown of what they are really doing with new voter ID laws. Indisputable voter suppression, and the laws outlined in pretty good detail. If Obama loses to that Rmoney, who polls at about the same level as Congress, then we'll KNOW the fix is in. This is an important segment. We can argue how much Tweety sucks later.

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[FarPoint]

1. What can we do about this?

Do they outline any action steps? I can't tolerate anymore stolen elections.

[monmouth]

2. Just read in the Palm Beach Post our voting machines are a mess...n/t

[elleng]

4. State by State, with help of Dem party, national and in the states.

[Atman]

5. I fear it is too late.

They have the electro-voting boxes in place. They've suppressed the Democratic vote.

What can we do? We can encourage everyone -- EVERYONE -- to get out and vote in any way they can. Do provisionals, do mail-ins, do anything. Show them NUMBERS. Might the GOP machine steal it for Mitt? Yes, it could happen. Personally, I don't believe that will happen, but I believe it COULD happen. They're showing force. Democrats have to finally show MORE force.

.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

6. Nothing.

Those who could do something about it had almost four years to do it.

Is Holder going after anybody other than whistle-blowers, those who dispense medical marijuana, etc? If not, why not?

[spanone]

3. sad truth. absolutely nothing will be done to change these laws.

they can only be undone by the legislators who just passed them...they will ALL apply to this election,

[xchrom]

7. Where's ACORN when you need them?

Oh that's right -

[Mason Dixon]

8. I know I will get killed for this, but

I want to show picture ID when I vote.

I hate thinking that someone is voting with my late father's name.

I'm not in to taking points but we can do very little official business private or public in this country without showing valid ID.

I don't understand why we don't hold ourselves to the same standard with our most important public business.

I will say I don't know the language of every bill. In fact, I'm not speaking about any of them in particular, just conceptually.

[crazylikafox]

10. - 1. You're fortunate to have a status in life that enables you to have a drivers license

or passport. Not everyone does.

[Atman]

18. Excellent point.

I have an actual passport, and one of those credit card passports I can carry in my wallet. Cost me $140. Who the hell is going to spend that kind of dough and wait eight weeks to vote for ANYONE? Especially when you can't even afford a drivers license? WTF? How is this shit not obvious to people?

This is not a pass into a bank vault...it's a vote. People might risk years in jail for a shot at the bank vault. Can you really imagine anyone risking imprisonment over ONE VOTE for Barrack Obama? Seriously? Really?

[Mason Dixon]

23. Really?

This is your position. Federal elections are every two years. I think you have the time.

As to the 140 dollars. Apparently you paid the money and waited the eight weeks. I did too. Besides, life cost money. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Live in DC and want to drive to NY. Pay the tolls on the way. Pay for the driver's license, pay for the plates on the car, pay for the registration. I'm cool with it. It ain't changin'

And I'm not saying voting should cost money. It shouldn't. And if their is someone out there not spending their money on frivolous bullshit, because they just don't have the 20 or 40 dollars it takes to get a valid state ID or they can't leave work (and no one knows about that more than me) then the legislation should include provisions for those folks. Like a birth certificate or even a utility bill with their name and address on it. if all else fails, someone could even walk in with them with a vaild ID and vouch for that person and sign a document testifying to that fact.

And by the way its 2012. If you're an adult and got half a brain, 140 dollars will not keep the wolf from the door.

As to bank vault. This is ridiculous, but I think you're forgetting that more than one person a year attempts to rob a bank, as well as, more than just one person attempts to steal one vote.

[Atman]

27. Your position is that of one of the elitist/Republican vote-blockers.

Look at what you use as examples...living in DC and paying the tolls to drive to NY, for starters. Driving from DC to NY is common practice to how many people? The pocket change that it costs you and me equates to dinner for a couple of days for many people. You are an elitist, out of touch...uh...mole, or troll? Do you realize how many people can't PAY for anything but their own survival? What if one candidate gives them hope for a better life, and the other says he's going to cut the last little bit of assistance they get...is that United States citizen NOT ENTITLED TO VOTE because he/she can't afford to pay $140 for a passport...or the toll money to cross the bridges in and out of New York? Are you fucking serious?

You ARE saying "voting should cost you money." That is EXACTLY what you are saying. And that is EXACTLY why the GOP (your party, mole-man) is rigging the election laws so that only people of means can "afford" to vote.

As to the bank vault...find a nice air-tight one, and lock yourself in it for a few days. All the money in the vault won't buy your way out.

[stevenleser]

35. I think you have this person pegged

Obvious troll is obvious

[Mason Dixon]

41. at ease

First of all it's not pocket change to do my example. All those costs total hundreds of dollars. yet we HAVE to do it. And that is why we don't do other things. Just like your going to eat. Hey you'd like to eat lobster, but you just spent a few hundred dollars get your plates and registration done so you're eating pasta and peanut butter. That's life. I just spent 50 bucks getting a nebulizer for my kid. But, he needed it. And now i don't get to do something else with that 50 bucks. But that's ok. I'll just have to wait a little longer for the other thing that just needs 50 more bucks. Unless something else comes along. Like, you know, life.

Try reading this part. I think you missed it

And I'm not saying voting should cost money. It shouldn't. And if their is someone out there not spending their money on frivolous bullshit, because they just don't have the 20 or 40 dollars it takes to get a valid state ID or they can't leave work (and no one knows about that more than me) then the legislation should include provisions for those folks. Like a birth certificate or even a utility bill with their name and address on it. if all else fails, someone could even walk in with them with a vaild ID and vouch for that person and sign a document testifying to that fact.


There is a solution, so that people aren't excluded from the vote. I don't think that's all that difficult to conjure.

I just think it's important to protect: one citizen, one vote. that's all

[Atman]

43. Your sew fool of chit!

Like a birth certificate or even a utility bill with their name and address on it.

Gosh...wear have I herd this bee four? Maybe in the post I posit abuv? Trouble is, this isn't watt you half bean saying.

MOLE/TROLL.

.

[stevenleser]

60. MIRT has sent the troll back to his bridge with a PIZZA!

Well done MIRT!

[Atman]

62. Thanks, MIRT!

That dude was so obvious, it wasn't even funny!

[spanone]

48. voter i.d. laws disenfranchise the elderly and minorities. that is why they are wrong.

[Mason Dixon]

21. Status?

if you have cashed a check in the United States, you've shown ID

Unless, you shouldn't have been

[Beaverhausen]

22. There are many elderly and poor people who haven't ever done that

they have never had a drivers license
never rented a car
never flown anywhere

Voter fraud is not a problem. No one is going to bother voting as your father. Sheesh!

[Mason Dixon]

42. i bet they get social security

just add "show your social security card" anywhere you like

And I'm not saying voting should cost money. It shouldn't. And if their is someone out there not spending their money on frivolous bullshit, because they just don't have the 20 or 40 dollars it takes to get a valid state ID or they can't leave work (and no one knows about that more than me) then the legislation should include provisions for those folks. Like a birth certificate or even a utility bill with their name and address on it. if all else fails, someone could even walk in with them with a vaild ID and vouch for that person and sign a document testifying to that fact.

[Atman]

45. Sow your just cutting and paysting you're own responses now?

[Mason Dixon]

50. what can i say

its a busy night at the sizzler

besides, I thought both of you missed that paragraph

[stevenleser]

55. You can say, "I'm a troll, and I am going away now" nt

[Mason Dixon]

57. what does nt mean?

[dflprincess]

25. A passport doesn't show your address (you pencil that in)

so, depending on how the particular voter ID bill was written, it may not be considered a valid ID for voting.

[trueblue2007]

59. I LIVE IN OREGON. i don't drive a car but have ID. the id costs $44.50!!!! THAT IS ALOT OF $$$

JUST TO VOTE????


VOTING IS A RIGHT... NOT A PRIVILEDGE

[blaze]

13. The problem with this argument is that we don't have a problem with "Voter" fraud.

What we have is a problem with ELECTION fraud.

Do some research. Actual voter fraud is very rare.

Election fraud has become all to common.

[Mason Dixon]

24. I find it hard to believe

that in a country with

financial corruption
police corruption
municipal, county, state and federal corruption
corporate corruption
non-profit embezzlement
price fixing
corporate collusion
drug conspiracy
9/11

but when we get to voter fraud, the single act that gives one person and his inner circle the keys to the Castle and a set-for-life status on the world stage, we're all to confident to say, "oh yeah, we're good their."

Fine, then their is no reason not have to show ID and stamp the rarity it out for good.

[blaze]

26. Seriously. Stop watching Faux News.

It's hurting your brain.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. First, learn the difference between "there" and "their". Second, learn the difference between voter

fraud and electoral fraud. Voter fraud is a non issue. Electoral fraud is a very real issue which these laws do nothing to address. But nice talking points anyway.

[blaze]

30. TY GWC.

I don't do the debating thing all that well... appreciate the backup.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

53. You seem to be doing just fine. I just have very low tolerance for bullshit. nt

[Mason Dixon]

44. i still have trouble with there and their

and I'm not saying election fraud is not an issue. Absolutely it is.

All I'm talking about is voter fraud and that it's naive to think its a non-issue and in my opinion I wish I was required to show photo ID for something that is as important as voting.

Thats all

oh and you always put the end mark inside the quotations

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

51. How many voter fraud cases have we had in the last 10 years? nt

[Atman]

31. Simplistic bullshit.

This quote, IMHO, proves you're just one of Frank's moles or something...misspelled, nonsensical, stupid bullshit, along with a list of your favorite Tea Bag bogeymen, with a couple of jujubes thrown for good measure in an attempt to throw us off...

but when we get to voter fraud, the single act that gives one person and his inner circle the keys to the Castle and a set-for-life status on the world stage, we're all to confident to say, "oh yeah, we're good their."

Fine, then their is no reason not have to show ID and stamp the rarity it out for good.

Stupid mole.

[Mason Dixon]

52. who is the hell is frank

I have to Google that

as for my grammar. what can i say, when I started speeding on the interstate, sometimes i weave a little outside the lanes

and btw to correct grammar on a blog is just fuckin' lame

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

54. It's not lame. "Weer" just concerned about poster fraud around these here internet parts. nt

[stevenleser]

61. MIRT just served the troll some pepperoni pizza with extra cheese.

[stevenleser]

15. George W. Bush's administration did a lengthy investigation into voter fraud. It's a non issue

They discovered less than 100 instances nationwide of it happening after a 5 year investigation. See http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?_r=1

The issue is election fraud. Like when Katherine Harris purged thousands of what should have been eligible African Americans off the roles in Florida in advance of election 2000. Like when Kenneth Blackwell created restrictive laws regarding the voting in Ohio in 2004 that disproportionally affected urban voters where Democrats have our strongholds. THAT has changed elections.

[Major Nikon]

33. It's pretty easy to believe when it says exactly the opposite of his administration's claims

Furthermore it's not as if these things weren't already known to reasonably informed people to begin with. As if none of this weren't enough to convince a reasonably intelligent person, you have the fact that Bush's voter fraud crackdown yielded nothing more than a few convictions, and most of those had absolutely nothing to do with the type of fraud they were alleging.

It's amazing what you learn when you decide to better educate yourself.

Just sayin'

[stevenleser]

34. It's amusing that you find it amusing, and that you consider a NY Times article spoonfed.

I think you have made it pretty obvious what you are.

Since I am in the mood to feed trolls, to make it clear, it was in the Bush administrations and Republicans political interests to try to make voter fraud into a big issue, so the fact that they basically found none is significant.

See how that works? It's like when the Bush administrations team couldnt find any WMD in Iraq. They desperately wanted to find some so the fact that they couldnt is credible.

Enjoy your stay, brief as it may be.

[Major Nikon]

36. His tenure has already lasted for a year and a half

I find it more amusing that he remained quiet for a year and a half only to blow it on this drivel.

[stevenleser]

38. I know, what a waste of time and effort. Premature trollification. nt

[Mason Dixon]

56. define for me a troll

because I bet their are people in this very thread that voted for bush more times than I did

listen I dont respond to the whole troll, fuck head republican thing. I just don't do name calling on a blog. I think it's such a farce. If we were all sitting in a bar having this conversation, I doubt any of you would be so accusatory even bold for that matter. It's because you do it on a blog with a perfect stranger, in a realm of ideas that you resort to it. So, I know you would never do it in person.


Like I said, I knew I would get killed. And I am, what a shock, because I just felt like voicing my opinion on a site that I read everyday. And I knew it was a minority opinion, but that doesn't make it wrong, just mine and so far mine alone. But because I read this site everyday and find the vitriol against voter ID so stout, that even Bush is used against me, yes I find that amusing.

Sue me

and yes, so they scream voter fraud, while they are committing election fraud and what does the NYT do? Nothing. They write a story 5 years after the election that the Bush administration screamed voter fraud and they looked and they didn't find any. done. file it. here's your had

You're right. it kinda sounds like your example.

[stevenleser]

58. Easy, look in the mirror, this is what you will see...

[Atman]

39. Why don't you just wave a MOLE/TROLL flag?

Jesus...The Cave must be slow tonight...Most Def is looking for new "product" for the other 12 posters.

.

[stevenleser]

16. Here is more of my opinions on this subject

http://www.opednews.com/articles/McCain-and-Republican-Lies-by-Steven-Leser-081019-167.html

[Atman]

17. Because you obviously don't really know how the system works...

You have a name on the list...you walk up to a table and say "I'm Joe Blow, my address is 123 Main Street." A 100 year old lady crosses your that name off the list. This is in your neighborhood. The checkers actually know you, or recognize you, and most of the people coming through the lines. Either way, though, that vote is off this list. No one can vote that vote again. So if you're really Bill Blow, at 789 Other Street, and try to vote again, that lady will look at you funny and say huh?

This crap about Mickey Mouse voting is just that...crap. If someone named Mickey Mouse, Orlando came up to my table when I was a checker, I'd probably notice that a) he didn't have huge black ears and red shorts with big white buttons on them, or b) he had a very unusual name and we weren't in Orlando.

So what is wrong with a utility bill just to match up with your name on a paper list? Do you REALLY think someone will dig through trash or break into a house to get an old utility bill of yours just so that they can go commit a major crime by voting for some douchebag? REALLY?

I could go on and on...the arguments are ridiculous. The percentage of actual voter fraud nationwide look like pi...as long as you replace the beginning 3.14 with ZEROS.

[GETPLANING]

19. The intent of voter ID laws is the issue.

It seems harmless to require ID to vote. And that is the talking point that the right is using.

But the problem with voter ID and other laws restricting voter registration, early voting, and obtaining IDs is their INTENT. The INTENT of these laws is to reduce voter turnout, especially among demographic groups that vote for Democrats.

That's unconstitutional. Suppressing the vote is unconstitutional. Period.

[Atman]

32. +1000

[Mason Dixon]

47. i'm not going to debate the right, er other side of this

but I don't know of laws that restrict voter registration (other than ex-cons) because as you will agree, they are unconstitutional. I think what's interesting is that you equate those laws with voter ID laws and your proof is intent.

I know some of the voter ID laws have been struck down, I'm sorry to say to I don't the details as to why, but I believe in judicial review and have confidence that the court questioned the language for not its intent but its potential. Fine. Just re-write the law and do it right this time.

[bluestate10]

9. If democrats sit around crying about voter ID laws, our side will lose.

Activists need to be out explaining how people can get ID and beat laws that are designed to prevent voting by some groups. Now is the time to defeat voter ID laws helping people get IDs.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. I agree!!!

[GETPLANING]

20. Yes.

Republicans are out telling each other that they are out to suppress the Democratic vote.

Democrats need to start every single speaking engagement, on television and on the stump, by explaining why Republicans are attempting to suppress the vote, and what must be done to counter it.

[Mason Dixon]

49. I couldn't agree more

just the like the motor voter laws in so many states. Its great.

Bring a bus to the neighborhood and drive them all to the DMV on the way to the polling station!

I know its a little over simplified, but you get the idea

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. I fear it's too late, too! The Obama Justice Department waited too late to jump on this. Also...

the Corporate Media has been creaming its collective pants all day long over a polls that show that Obama-Romney are locked in a dead heat, with some polls showing that Romney is slightly ahead among likely voters.

They want this race to be CLOSE to help Republicans STEAL this election!!

[tularetom]

14. It's not like people haven't been screaming about this crap since 2004

Any fool can see that there is all sorts of illegal shit going on and it has been an ongoing topic of discussion here on DU and on certain radio talk shows (Tom Hartmann for one) and many complaints have been voiced with our congressional representatives.

Yet neither congress nor the Obama administration have seen fit to lift a finger to investigate the massive election rigging. Do they not care? Are they simply just dense or are they deliberately ignoring the signs?

At times I think, fuck 'em they deserve what they get, and maybe they do, but the rest of us sure as hell don't deserve it.

If it's any consolation, our current system of government can't go on like this much longer, so something will have to give. I hope it can be accomplished peacefully.

[snot]

63. Thank you, yes!

John Conyers conducted an important investigation after the 2004 elections, relegated to the building basement yet successfully documenting massive problems despite the lack of any assistance, and was ignored and ridiculed for it.

At this point, it's difficult not to conclude that most of the Dems are either morons or complicit.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

37. No cable at my house

Can someone post a link when it's up on the web?

Thanx

[mmonk]

40. Blame Holder.

He has been worthless on such matters.

[Blue_In_AK]

46. Oh, they're definitely gearing up for some funny business.

We've just had the most disastrous municipal election here in Anchorage that I've ever seen, and everyone knows it's just practice for November.

Read all about it at The Mudflats http://www.themudflats.net/ Several articles going back to April 3. Brad Friedman has covered it here: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9259



I expect chaos all over the country come November.