Another black teen killed by Cleveland police as mother asks: 'Why? What happened?'

[KamaAina]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/24/cleveland-police-shot-dead-black-teen-mother

When Brandon Jones was home on Cleveland’s East Side with his mother, Tonya Brown, he would check in on her to make sure she had everything she needed. Jones was the middle child of eight kids and worked hard to make sure the people around him were happy and taken care of.

So on those days when Jones was home, the days before a police officer fatally shot him less than a week before his 19th birthday, he would frequently ask if his mother was OK....

On Thursday last week, Jones broke into the nearby Parkway Grocery and stole cigarettes and money, according to the store’s owner. Officers responded to a call of a break-in at approximately 2.15am and struggled with Jones after he left the store carrying a bag. One officer fired, striking Jones, who died at the hospital hours later.

“Everybody knows he shouldn’t have been there,” Brown said. “Everybody knows what he did was wrong – we’re past that. My baby should not be dead.”

Oh, right, of course. The obligatory picture. As if you didn't already know.

[HassleCat]

1. Fear Does It

The police are afraid of young black men. They're quicker to shoot at young black men because they believe they are more likely to be killed, compared to dealing with whites, Latinos, Asians, etc. Statistically, there is a small justification for feeling this way, since young black men commit more violent crimes than people in other demographics. But the cops hype themselves up to the point where they have the attitude that every black kid wearing a hoodie is out to kill them. Not just white cops, either. After years of escalating tension between police and black people, things are boiling over in many cities. The cops have a Fort Apache mentality, and the citizens believe every shooting is a racist murder. I'm not sure how long this can continue.

[strawberries]

16. I think you are on in this one

I was at boost in North Hartford, which is predominately poor AA. While waiting I heard the sirens going by, not one or two more. I looked out the window and this cop was running through the parking lot of boost. He came up to the door window that I was looking out of. I could see his heart racing and he was sweating profusely. when our eyes met I felt fear, fear that he was going to shoot me. That's how out of control he was. I completely froze. He did continue on running, but in those few seconds I was afraid of him.

Point I am trying to make is this cop was afraid and he had a gun. They need to be retrained or something

[ncjustice80]

44. The vast majority of shootings ARE racist murders.

Cockroaches hate it when you shine a light on them.

[HassleCat]

66. Yes and No

Yes, if you consider institutionalized racism that makes whole police departments paranoid about young black men. No, if you think most individual cops hate black people. They don't, but they work in an environment where things have devolved to the point where the cops think every black kid they meet is going to tae a shot at them, and the citizens believe every cop they see is just there to hassle them or shoot at them. It's going to require some strong, bold leadership to get beyond this.

[ncjustice80]

68. Leadership with enough guts to switch to an unarmed police force would be a start.

[Romeo.lima333]

4. why the f do some people fight with the police once they are caught - he'd be sitting in jail

right now alive or probably out on bail by now - terribly sad -

[Lee-Lee]

12. Yep. So many people take what's a slightly bad situation and make it much worse

I saw it all the time.

Run from what would have been a simple speeding ticket, and maybe simple possession charge if it even got that far and turn it into several felony charges.

Take a simple shoplifting charge and run and assault the officer when she catches you- what would have been a ticket and release becomes a felony.

Turn what would have been a wreckless driving charge and turn it into wreckless driving + felony hit+run.

Too soon to say what happened in this case.

But a good rule of thumb is- if your innocent, or even guilty, you may beat it in court. You will never beat the cops on the street, and fighting or running there will just make you lose in court for sure as more charges get stacked on because you are stupid, it may get you hurt, and it may get you killed.

First rule of thumb is don't do stupid shit. Second rule is if you get caught doing stupid things don't do more stupid things and make it worse. Fight to win it in court. You can't win it on the street.

[tblue]

56. But it's too easy to say he should have

just given himself up to that cop. The kid was terrified. He knew what was coming and none of it was good. People always talk about how "scared" police are of black men--cops everywhere, they see a black man and just freak out and go on the attack. Well guess what. Black men are just as afraid of cops, and with a lot more reason. It may make no logical sense to resist arrest and yes, this young man should never have committed a crime (tho at this point I don't know if it would be better if he had done it or not). But I can't blame any black man for being so afraid of cops he thinks he he'll have a better chance of surviving if he gets as far away from them as possible.

[Lee-Lee]

60. Everything I described above isn't race based or a behavior exclusive to one race

In fact thinking back each of those specific examples I gave was white, all but one male.

Stupidity knows no racial bounds. If anything, in my experience its white people who were more likely to escalate and make things worse.

And I can't accept any excuse of "well, he is black so it's ok/understandable if he hits the police/runs in a car endangering others/ etc."- because that's almost a line out of the white supremacist playbook- I could see some jackass with a swastika tatoo out saying "Of course they go out and assault cops when they get caught stealing they are animals and when an animal gets scared they just get violent, it's in their nature"... In fact I had an old white guy use that exact line on me when I was taking a report about some black youth who had stolen his car. If we keep excusing stupid and violent behavior from our youth (of any race) like this, and not holding them to just as much account and responsibility as we want to and should be the cops on the other end of this than this cycle will never end.

If we keep telling black youth "you shouldn't fight/run from the cops but I underrstand if you do it's really the cops fault because they all suck" you are doing nothing more than giving the message it's ok to chance it and if they do they are not responsible- and setting the stage to see this again, and again, and again...

[pansypoo53219]

5. petty crimes are not death penalty crimes.

stop the fuckbucket.

[Mr Dixon]

61. SMH

Agreed

[cigsandcoffee]

7. A good way to avoid the police is not to do crimes.

It doesn't work every time, of course, but it's still a pretty good rule of thumb.

[KamaAina]

9. Great suggestion!

Now, what's a good way for the police to avoid killing people during routine misdemeanor arrests?

[cigsandcoffee]

13. Breaking and entering is a felony, actually.

That said, I'n not suggesting that the police were correct in shooting this man, or acted in any way appropriately. I think it's just important that young people know that doing crimes puts you at a higher risk of having unpleasant or even deadly interactions with law enforcement. If this young person had been at home studying for school, or sleeping, or even playing a board game with his younger brothers - then he'd almost assuredly be alive today.

But instead, he was out committing felonies, and that's a really good way of having run-ins with the cops.

[KamaAina]

19. I thought he robbed a store.

I didn't realize it wasn't open.

edit: I guess I was flashing back to Michael Brown.

[sabrina 1]

26. You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if a young AA is committing a crime or not, they WILL

be confronted by police on a routine basis. Simply for being Black. Have you seen the latest study on Chicago's 'Stop and Frisk' policies?

Get back to us with your well-intentioned, I'm sure, advice, AFTER you read that.

When mothers feel compelled to instruct their young college student sons and daughters on how to behave if they even SEE a cop something is pretty wrong.

[daleanime]

51. It's always amazing.....

how willfully blind people can be when they want to.

[sabrina 1]

52. Yes, it is! n/t

[840high]

48. ....

[Sparhawk60]

59. The Kid is to Blame

He should have just laid face down on the pavement and every thing would have been alright. O, wait, that's what the guy in the other thread did, and he STILL got shot in the back and killed by the police.

/even being white didn't help the last guy.

[Snow Leopard]

64. have the perp not attempt to

resist the arrest?

[tblue37]

23. But for African Americans the "crime" that leads to the initial police contact is

all too often the crime of walking, driving, or simply (I]breathing while wearing melanin enhanced skin.

[tblue]

53. Yes, and I don't automatically believe

the official story either.

Hi cuz!

[tblue37]

54. Hi back at ya! nt

[ncjustice80]

46. A better way to avoid police is to not be black, young, male.

Or cops could, y know, stop murdering unarmed kids.

[cigsandcoffee]

65. Sure, OK. But a person of any color is more likely to mingle with the police while doing crimes.

This is pretty much inarguable. This young man broke in to a store to rob it, and met police on the way out. This simply would not have happened if he were safe at home. So a good rule of thumb - if your goal is to avoid tangling with cops - is to stop doing crimes and behave yourself.

This doesn't mean the cops were right to shoot him, although we still don't know if they were wrong, either. I'm not going to knee-jerk with charges of murder and/or racism every time a person is shot in the act of committing a felony just because they're young and black.

Are these cops racist murderers? Maybe, I guess. It's also quite possible that they aren't, and smearing them with such an ugly charge before knowing the facts does us all a disservice.

[ncjustice80]

67. All I hear is...

Blah blah blah kid deserved it blah blah give killer cops a chance blah blah.

Im sick of the exscuses for MURDER OF UNARMES KIDS.

[cwydro]

8. Don't commit crimes.

Somehow this common sense is being missed.

[morningfog]

10. Death is not the punishment for burglary for fuck's sake.

[cwydro]

11. I completely agree with you.

But anyone who is idiotic enough to fight with these idiots is asking for trouble.

I'm white, middle-aged, and female - and I don't trust the cops.

[TheKentuckian]

15. Complete agreement would lead to the first focus being on stopping the street executions

[Romeo.lima333]

25. esp a.a. men they know by now that the police are more than likely to shot them - not saying it's

right or acceptable but until they stop shooting a.a. men . a.a. men shouldn't fight with the police

[Romeo.lima333]

24. he didnt die for burglary - he was shot b/c he was fighting with the police who carry deadly weapons

[sabrina 1]

28. Maybe they shouldn't carry deadly weapons. Other developed nations don't seem to have this

problem EVEN when a suspect decides to try to wrestle with the police. What's wrong with OUR police they are unable to subdue a suspect WITHOUT resorting to deadly force? Are they out of shape, not physically capable of doing their job?

It's amazing how other countries don't seem to have these problems when dealing with suspects.

[Romeo.lima333]

31. agreed however other countries have a better handle on the guns in their country, we dont here.

plus the penalties here for gun related crimes aren't as harsh as they should be. even better still if you commit a crime and are caught give up and go to jail don't wrestle with them you'll live to tell about it later

[morningfog]

42. He was murdered by pigs, who kill because they can.

[840high]

47. True but don't do burglary.

[sabrina 1]

27. The death penalty doesn't apply to robbery. Or you suggesting it SHOULD?

[cwydro]

55. Nope.

I'm not.

[LittleBlue]

29. You can commit crimes

Just don't commit a crime and then get into a physical altercation with the police. No jury will convict a policeman who responded to a burglary call and got into a brawl.

[uponit7771]

39. even when not committing crimes...it seems not to matter

[NOLALady]

40. Right.

Don't jaywalk.

Don't buy toy guns at WalMart.

Don't play with toy guns in the park.

Don't buy skittles and tea.

Don't sell single cigarettes.

Don't have expired licenses.

Don't drive, run, walk or breathe while black.

These are crimes worthy of on the spot executions!

[TheKentuckian]

17. The penalty for all infractions is death unless you are white, rich, and powerful.

I guess even the "liberal" version of our future dystopia is to mimic the society on the Next Generation episode where Wesley Crusher was to be sentenced to death for accidentally stepping into a restricted area playing ball.

[JI7]

18. wasn't the home owner who shot the white kids who broke into his home convicted ?

[KamaAina]

21. Sure we would.

A white kid being shot by cops would really be LBN!

[Rex]

20. He should have known cops always shoot at suspects that fight cops then flee.

Er uh...unless they are handcuffed. Um...no taser available! Yeah! That's the ticket.

[pintobean]

32. Except, your guy didn't fight the cops

He took advantage of someone else fighting cops.

Come on Rex, be honest.

[Rex]

33. Way to miss the point.

But not unexpected.

[pintobean]

36. What point were you making

that requires deception?

[Rex]

37. .

In the discussions around racial bias in the criminal justice system, one thing that is often missed is that by singularly focusing on one group, police often take attention away from another one. In this case, that lesson can be seen overtly on camera. For many black Americans, their skin color shapes how they are perceived by law enforcement. While all three of the suspects lay on the ground, the police had drawn tasers and focused on just two of them. The answer to why is something departments around the country need to explore before there can be any hope of a truly impartial justice system.

[CincyDem]

30. "Cop kills black teen" headline is starting to feel like "Dog bites man".

In some countries, there are so few shooting deaths that they every one dominates the news cycle for days if not weeks.

In some cities in the US, there are so many in a day they have to pick one or two to mention on the news in any given day and 30 minutes later, most are forgotten.

There's a mind numbingness associated with this that makes me worry someday that the headline "cop kills black teen" will have all the lasting newsworthness of "black man goes to prison" or "hammer falls, hits floor".

This has got to stop.

[pintobean]

35. What cities are these?

In some cities in the US, there are so many in a day they have to pick one or two to mention on the news in any given day and 30 minutes later, most are forgotten.

[nomorenomore08]

34. Again, as in other cases, the point is not to portray a flawed human being as a saint.

Rather the point is that, whatever his faults, he did nothing to warrant a violent death. And if he were any race other than black, there's a good chance he'd still be alive.

[marym625]

38. Execution by cop.

Regardless of anything else, as long as they're young, male and black. No arrest, no trial, no conviction. Just immediate, unquestioned, execution.

[Oneironaut]

41. The problem is not the enforcement of laws - it's the manner by which it's done.

Europe probably has a comparable crime rate to the US, but has nowhere near the amount of people killed by the police. If somebody is armed, then I can't blame the police for shooting them. On the other hand, if someone is not armed, there needs to be a better way than to just shoot people. The problem is that a confrontation happened in the first place, which forced the shooting.

I don't know what needs to change, but there has to be a better way.

[XemaSab]

43. "Europe probably has a comparable crime rate to the US"

You have facts to back that up?

Among other factors, they have a better social safety network that helps keep people from being poor and desperate.

[Oneironaut]

50. No, sorry.

I agree with the last sentence, though.

[KamaAina]

45. Well, it certainly doesn't have a comparable incarceration rate

Neither does China. Or Russia. Or South Africa. Or any other "developed" country.

[Rex]

49. Do any of those countries have pay for prisons? nt

nt

[Oktober]

57. What is the world coming to...

... when a man can't even commit multiple felonies without risking his life?!

Is this the question we are asking? Really?

[ncjustice80]

58. The victim blaming in this thread is truly vile.

#blacklivesmatter

[Oktober]

63. The man was literally in the middle of committing felonies...

How is he possibly a victim?

The criminal career path in not a risk free one.

[NaturalHigh]

69. I don't see anyone blaming a "victim."

It's pretty indisputable that if this young man hadn't burglarized a store and then fought with the police he wouldn't have been shot. That's not blaming; it's just fact.

[ncjustice80]

70. That is victim blaming.

The young man was put to death for being black and *allegedly* breaking into a store. You cant shoot an unarmed person, and a property crime is not a capital offense.

[NaturalHigh]

71. Lets not forget that he "allegedly" struggled with the police officer.

Never a good idea to try to take on an armed officer, and no, I don't think police officers should disarm.

Not victim blaming - just fact.

[ncjustice80]

72. Poster child for why they should be disarmed.

They can just claim they were "afraid for their life" and the subject "grabbed at their gun" and BLAM another avoidable murder by law enforcement

[NaturalHigh]

73. Okay.

I suggest you don't hold your breath waiting for that. If you were to put it to a vote, you'd lose about 9-1.

[ncjustice80]

74. Just because the majority beleive it doesnt make it right.