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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsChina threatens to arm Hawaii separatists who want kingdom
The Moonie Times picked up this gem from some fringe RW site called the Free Beacon.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/10/china-threatens-arm-hawaii-separatists-who-want-ki/
Chinese threats to back several groups of Hawaiian independence activists who want to restore the islands constitutional monarchy, ousted in a U.S.-backed coup more than a century ago, have raised concerns that military facilities on the strategic central Pacific archipelago are threatened at a time when the Obama administration is engaged in a major shift toward Asia as part of its military and diplomatic rebalance.
Michael Pillsbury, a Pentagon consultant and author of the book The Hundred-Year Marathon, said Chinese military hawks, known as ying pai, told him they are ready to provide arms to Hawaiian independence activists in retaliation for U.S. arms sales to Taiwan....
A favorite comparison the ying pai has made to me is How would the Pentagon like it if we provide arms to our friends in Hawaiian independence movement? he said. I was incredulous because I had never heard of such a movement in Hawaii, but after checking, I met a few of them.
Queen Lili'uokalani abdicated rather than see violence erupt between Hawaiian partisans and what amounted to an occupation force of U.S. Marines.
Original here: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hawaiian-independence-movement-attracts-chinese-interest/
brush
(54,004 posts)wanted more acreage for sugar and pineapple plantations. One of them had the surname "Dole" which many may have heard of.
The US has been at this coup-assasination-war-occupy thing continuously since then. There hasn't been a year since then that we haven't been involved in at lease one of those things, and more often than not it's more than one of them in the same country or countries.
It should not be a surprise, given our history, that there is not more . . . and yes, I'm going to use the word . . . "blowback".
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Apparently, it was determined that the standard-issue US-military issued sidearm of the time didn't have sufficient killing power.
Another development was the use of waterboarding ("water cure" to force information out of Huk detainees by US occupation forces - photo below, Philippines, 1901.
Not saying that China has any more rightful claim on these Central Pacific islands.
dembotoz
(16,874 posts)with folks who considered themselves natives
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)See a lot of 'no Hawaiian, no Aloha' stickers on vehicles there.
I think the Hawaiian people should have some solid measure of autonomy. I don't think arming them is the way to achieve it though.
Hekate
(91,181 posts)Surely the military doesn't need to hold as much land as it does in the Islands.
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)2nd or 3rd Generation Japanese and Hawaii decent. I told them, if they ever move back there I would totally love it, but they seem satisfied being in the Bay Area and on the mainland. I heard there are a few Shinto Shrines in Hawaii, I would love to visit it!
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)There is actually a word for Japanese-Americans whose family did not pass through Hawai'i!
Hilo on Hawai'i (Big) island has a wonderful Japanese garden.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...is the prettiest city on earty, IMHO.
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)I always tell my Japanese friends on line that I am.. -Nikkei jin nisei to hawaiian no amerikajin desu! I have probably a sliver of Native Hawaiian in me. There are some native Hawaiians in my family tree, but for the most part, I am Japanese-American.
aw I found something: http://encyclopedia.densho.org/Kotonk/
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)a kotonk is a mainland Japanese-American whose ancestors emigrated directly to the mainland from Japan, without a generation or two in Hawai'i. There aren't a whole lot of them.
edit: The term may be in wider use in Hawai'i than on the mainland.
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)I was born in San Francisco...so I am a native San Franciscan. I guess my parents are Kotonk, but it said at the link I posted (http://encyclopedia.densho.org/Kotonk/ ) it was derogatory. I bet my dad knows that word...Will have to ask him when I see him next.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)so they're off the hook.
edit: And in Hawai'i, many such words, including haole, can be derogatory or merely descriptive depending on context.
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)Yes, and My grandparents also born in Hawaii...My Grandfather was half Hawaiian and Half Japanese. My Grand mother was Hawaiian Born Japanese American. My great Grand Parents were from Miyazaki Japan.
btw I would love to learn some Hawaiian... but I guess I best focus on improving my Nihongo. I am not as fluent as I wish to be.
Cha
(298,313 posts)Democratic Japanese Gov, David Ig!
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Cha
(298,313 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)War bride mother.
Hekate
(91,181 posts)...and the bell in the early morning before the traffic started up and drowned it out. It was beautiful to wake up to that. (The other thing that drowned it out was the sound of the pile-drivers laying the groundwork for new high-rises. After 40 years, who knows if it's still there.)
The Honpa Hongwanji Missions are still scattered all about the Islands; they came in the late 1880s in service to the immigrants. I imagine a lot of changes have taken place; at the time I was at the University of Hawai'i one of my Sansei roommates told me she really had no interest in the services her parents went to in Hilo because they were still being held in Japanese. Eventually all immigrant churches/temples/synagogues have to start holding services their descendents can relate to. In any case, the Buddhist community in America is diverse and vibrant -- that goes for Hawai'i as well.
Valley of the Temples on O'ahu is a beautiful place to visit... the Byodo-In Temple (replica) is there, a wonderful work of beauty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byodo-In_Temple
Sorry, yuiyoshida! I'm getting more nostalgic the closer it gets to my high school reunion later this year. Imua, Kailua Surfriders, Class of '65. That is a scary-long-time-ago.
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)Some day I have to go ..and to Miyazaki as well.
Hekate
(91,181 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)where there are many large military bases chock-full of arms to steal.
Hekate
(91,181 posts)Sheesh.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)usually an inside job.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)What exactly would that be?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)where Queen Elizabeth is head of state, but the Prime Minister is head of government, and presides over Parliament. The U.S. Presidency is the only office in the world that combines the two, although many leaders, especially Soviet ones, have held both offices at once.
The problem here would be finding someone with a legitimate claim to the Hawaiian throne. There are a few people floating around out there that make a claim, but none have been widely accepted among Hawaiians.
hunter
(38,362 posts)American Indians?
This could get very interesting...
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)The horror!
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)China arms Native Americans and Native Mexican-Americans to the TEETH with tanks and missile launchers.
hunter
(38,362 posts)... and I stick out very awkwardly at some family gatherings.
It's also how my genes ended up in the U.S.A Wild West. A few of my ancestors jumped ship in San Francisco, swimming and running. I also have an ancestor who was a mail order bride to Salt Lake City, but she didn't like sharing a husband, so she ran away too.
My great aunt "survived" the Great Earthquake in San Francisco, but since she was out of town that day, she never felt comfortable counting herself among the "survivors." Still, we have her post-earthquake stories, and my great grandfather's photographs.
My great grandfather was sort of lucky, the earthquake destroyed some of his competitors' businesses, but not his. Unfortunately that made him cocky and he overleveraged himself investing in things like airplanes and Hollywood a little too soon. Then he died, just before the U.S. economy crashed in 1929. He saw the future but his timing was off.
Among the fighting age young people in my family, they could receive some serious military bling if the Chinese decided to send them that.
I even have friendly Hawaii connections.
I trust they'd all look after me.
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)I was telling someone in another posting about my ties to Hawaii and Japan.. and the funny thing is I have never seen either, would love to go some day!
brooklynite
(95,167 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)Great grandfather owned a bunch of it at one time, but I got nuthin
hunter
(38,362 posts)... but he was always too far ahead of his time.
I stopped by my great grandparent's house in San Francisco to take pictures, the place where my grandma and her sister were born and grew up, which has since been subdivided into six apartments, and one of the residents confronted me. I told him it was my great grandparents' house, all of it, but I don't think he believed me.
Yep, I got nuthin, just a few California road and street names.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)I didn't realize there was this kind of movement still going.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)One prominent sovereignty group is the Nation of Hawai'i.
http://hawaii-nation.org/
I attended a couple of Ka Lahui Hawai'i events back in the day. I prefer their "nation within a nation" approach, which would work much like the 550 or so tribal nations on the mainland. But I can't seem to find a website for them.
Hekate
(91,181 posts)I say the first 2 paragraphs more to others than to you:
One key difference between Native American tribes and the Hawai'ian people is that the tribes have treaties they can point to -- that is, no matter how badly those treaties have been broken by the US government, they are legal documents. When tribes assert their rights in the modern era, they have those documents to back them up.
The Hawai'ian kingdom was recognized around the world as an independent entity with its own head of state, at the time Queen Liliuokalani. It was stolen outright by force, no pretense otherwise, no treaties, no nothin'. It was an outrage, but it is a done deal.
What the Hawai'ian people do have, in my experience, is their culture. Despite all travails, that has never truly gone away, and permeates a whole layer of life there (awkwardly put, sorry) in a way that tourists can never see. At the time I left, in the late 1970s, some old family friends were becoming involved in home-schooling -- not just any home-schooling but "nests", Hawai'ian language immersion pre-schools. Language is key, and even a "dead" language can be revived, and with it a way of life and a way of thinking and seeing the world. (There is precedent: the surviving Jews of Europe retrieved Hebrew as they created the State of Israel.)
What the Hawai'ian people don't have is a discrete tribe. The friends I referred to are Hawai'ian + Japanese + Danish + Czech. I babysat their kids, who grew up and married lots of other interesting people. Who exactly is a Hawai'ian? Barack Obama's sister "looks" Hawai'ian, but she is haole and Indonesian. Her children "look" Hawai'ian but their dad is Canadian Chinese. I knew blondes who have Hawai'ian ancestry enough to go to the Kamehameha Schools if they chose. They don't "look" Hawai'ian.
I keep coming back to the culture and the language.... Fighting the US government for further recognition is going to be a monumental challenge, but I believe the Hawai'ians deserve a major chunk of land back.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Hekate
(91,181 posts)Yes, KamaAina, you know I know my Hawai'ian history as well as my US history.
But the Washington Times? The Free Beacon? What's with them?
Hekate
(91,181 posts)It fills my heart, and I don't remember who first told me about it.
Blue_In_AK
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