General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFL, AZ already turn public school money over to parents. Other states ready to do so. Choice is
what they are calling it.
This is one of the ideas coming from Jeb Bush's Foundation for Excellence in Education.
It's a surefire way to destroy public schools. Giving the taxpayer money to charter schools and to private schools through vouchers must not be working fast enough.
States weigh turning education funds over to parents
A radical new concept in school choice will come up for vote in at least a half-dozen states from Virginia to Oklahoma in the coming months, as lawmakers consider giving hundreds of thousands of parents the freedom to design a custom education for their children at taxpayer expense.
Twenty-one states already subsidize tuition at private schools through vouchers or tax credits. The new programs promise far more flexibility, but critics fear they could also lead to waste or abuse as taxpayers underwrite do-it-yourself educations with few quality controls.
Called Education Savings Accounts, the programs work like this: The state deposits the funds it would have spent educating a given child in public schools into a bank account controlled by his parents. The parents can use those funds the amount ranges from $5,000 to more than $30,000 a year to pay for personal tutors, homeschooling workbooks, online classes, sports team fees and many types of therapy, including horseback riding lessons for children with disabilities. They can also spend the money on private school tuition or save some of it for college.
ESAs so far exist only in Arizona and Florida, where one family recently sought to use their childs funds on an educational vacation to Europe. (Program administrators, who must approve all expenditures, said no.) But the idea is catching fire. Bills to create the accounts cleared panels last week in the Virginia and Mississippi legislatures. Theyre likely to be on the table as well this session in Iowa, Nebraska, Nevada, Oklahoma, Texas and possibly Rhode Island and Tennessee.
The Foundation for Excellence in Education, founded by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, published a report this week touting ESAs as a promising way to shake up public education. We need our policymakers to be much more daring, the report urged.
So if that one item had been approved Florida taxpayers would be paying for a Euopean vacation. True that would be educational for sure.
I have looked for other situations like that in Florida, but it is really hard to find anything at all about it.
I expect many parents are thinking Hey what a great idea. But if they do a poor job there may be no public schools in the wings to rescue them and educate their children.
The steamroller keeps on rolling.
On Edit: Found a little more at the AJC. Not reassuring.
One choice bill for education reform
Obviously this was written by an avid education reformer, so consider the favorable view.
While some people have wrongly likened an ESA to a voucher, its more akin to a Health Savings Account. Hamilton calls it a parent-driven, consumer-driven education pathway.
The precise amount of funding would vary by child and school district, as the bill would use the QBE funding formula to calculate exactly what the state would have spent on that particular student, between $3,500 and $5,000 per child per year.
To allay concerns of a huge exodus from public schools, HB 243 would cap usage to 0.5 percent of the total student population (about 8,500 kids) in the first year and 1 percent (about 17,000 kids) thereafter. Experience in other states with ESAs, Arizona and Florida, suggests the number will likely be closer to 1,000, Hamilton says.
In any event, because the accounts would be limited to kids enrolled in public school or entering kindergarten or the first grade, Hamilton says the effect on the state budget should be neutral, and the effect on local school budgets ought to be positive.
Were only taking the state portion, he says. So (districts) still get their local property-tax portion that they receive, even though that students not there, and then they also continue to receive federal dollars.
Oh, yes, those "caps" are only temporary. Don't trust them, sorry.
To have the nerve to say they are only taking the "state portion"? In FL that will be devastating quickly with Rick Scott's tax cutting policies at play in so many districts.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Will the parents be able to manage our taxpayer money wisely?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But they don't care ... so long as they state doesn't spend one red dime on educating a kid that is not their own.
Two anecdotes out of Arizona ...
One of the local "Alternative" papers did a series on one of the hundreds of Charters that popped up (seemingly, over night) once the good people of the state decided that their tax dollar was better spent outside of the traditional K-12 system (lack of accountability, dontchaknow). The series detailed schools renting their buildings, and buying books, at (suspected) inflated rates, from corporations headed up by the school administrators/board members. I say suspected because the schools have resisted opening their books to accountability audits ... because ... you know ... PRIVATE ENTERPRISE!!!
I recently read a OpEd piece by a PhD'ed, 20+ year K-12 Administrator ... and oh, yeah, the losing candidate in the most recent election for State Education Superintendent ... (He lost to a bat-crap crazy, former board of education member of a small town, oustered for putting her crazy on display).
The OpEd spoke to the new Governor's budget that increased the "dollars going directly to education." The OpEd writer warned that education would suffer greatly if this budget were adopted ... Now it makes sense.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I think AZ was on the front line of ed reform if I'm not mistaken. Like Florida they use terms that keep the public in the dark about what is really going on.
Rick Scott was getting away with claiming he had raised the amount going to public schools, but then people started pointing out that was after he cut over a billion.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)They give money for vouchers to parents of disabled and/or needy students so they can go to private schools. The private schools in FL are not regulated.
Thus...already that makes less tax money going to public schools. Compound that by giving money to charters and the ESAs I mention in this post....destruction.
Oh did I say the private schools are usually religious and the vouchers go there anyway.
FloriTexan
(838 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)setting up a private fund with Public Money, it ends up helping their wealthy buddies in one way or another.
See the 'Education' Publishing Corps eg. What a windfall it was for them when Businessmen invented a 'system of education' based on testing? They have made billions so far, not much in the way of education, but huge profits for Bush friends.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Not having much luck yet. This really caught me off guard, though I knew it was put on the table.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)mcar
(42,340 posts)My son is a HS senior and my SO teaches so I know from what I speak.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And Rick Scott is going further.
SO has 3 years left. Fingers crossed that he lasts.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)If it were just the kids I would have taught longer. Tell him good luck from me.
eppur_se_muova
(36,274 posts)The money you pay in taxes is used to send *everyone's* kids to school, not your own (if you don't have kids you still pay taxes don't you?). Which is why your taxes are MUCH less than the actual cost of sending your kids to school -- the money being turned over as "vouchers" (or whatever they're calling it now) has been taken from other taxpayers, and the state is just acting as a Reverse Robin Hood -- taking tax money from people who can't afford private schools, and turning it over to people who have enough money already. Sickening.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)NV Whino
(20,886 posts)If that isn't an invitation for abuse,I don't know what is.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Exactly.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)What are the standards?
Roy Rolling
(6,925 posts)My kids are all grown up. Does the state give me back my tax money, too?
LiberalArkie
(15,722 posts)kicked out of that private school), then the student does not have the money to go that school year. Looks like a lot of uneducated kids are going to be produced. Maybe service stations will come back and hire the kids. Maybe even kids selling the daily newspapers on the corner, or kids shining shoes. Maybe even factories will come back since there will be cheap factory labor like there used to be.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)have to juggle with school finances for K-12 (books, etc.), more power to you since you guys kept GOPers in office. Just like WI, KS, et al. I still care, but shit, the people kept these mother**kers in office.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And wonder why such things happen.
SunSeeker
(51,579 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I saw what the jackals were trying to do yesterday. We have your back.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Thank you for that.
Not unexpected though.
Kind words appreciated.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Why pay all that money to go to college. take the education courses and become a competent teacher when you can skip college or take no education courses or even business courses, advertise yourself as an unlicensed tutor and charge parents for your services. Some enterprising people will organize classes, stun ignorant parents with empty promises and lies and slide through on this.
I believe that if this is to be the law, then EVERY CHILD IN AMERICA SHOULD HAVE TO TAKE THE VERY SAME TESTS THAT CHILDREN IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS TAKE. And they should take them in monitored locations so that the privately and homeschooled children do not become an underclass of unschooled citizens. Some parents are qualified, capable and disciplined enough to homeschool their children. Most of them are not.
I never taught grade or high school beyond working briefly as a substitute, but I did take some education courses in college. They are valuable.
At a time when the ability of our children to compete in the world economy is a major issue, this development is counterproductive to say the least. We should be increasing our educational standards for all children, not releasing some children to who knows what unprepared, incompetent self-styled educators.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I could not have said it better.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)These benefits (It's called a PLSA here) are only available to students who would, generally, not fare well in a normal public school setting or for whom a normal public school is poorly equipped to educate properly. In short, everyone is not eligible for the program, only those who have special needs requiring non-standard educational approaches. The eligibility requirements are:
Is your child eligible? This scholarship is for Florida students in kindergarten through 12th grade with one of the following disabilities: autism, cerebral palsy, Down syndrome, Prader-Willi syndrome, Spina bifida, Williams syndrome or Intellectual Disability (severe cognitive impairment). Also, students who are deemed high risk due to developmental delays and who are not older than 5 on Sept. 1 may be eligible for the year they are applying... linky
I'm not so certain this is a terrible idea, at least administered as described. Most of these students would be forced to seek out alternative education solutions in any case; this merely allows them to use some of the monies the state would be spending to send them to public schools to fund those alternatives.
Of course the problem here is that Rick Scott is our Governor and he can be relied on to use ANY idea, no matter how well intentioned, to loot public systems and privatize the smoking remains.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Those McKay vouchers are paid by corporations which of course means far less taxes for schools. And look at the history of closed schools which were not monitored.
Charter schools won't take them. Simple solution make the charters take learning disabled just as public schools do.
There are ways to provide for those students...we did it for years here. I know because I tutored and worked with that system.
Taking resources from public schools is not solving problems.
I am sorry but there is no excusing this new intrusion. Not in my mind.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)There is so much danger in this.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)I think though that the thing to remember here is that most of these students wouldn't be in the public schools in any case, or if they were would not be served well due to the limited ability of public schools to handle these students. This simply grants state assistance to the parents of such students so that they can seek out more appropriate venues.
I do take issue with those monies coming out of the education budget. This sets a precedent which can easily be expanded upon, slowly bleeding to death public education. I'd much rather those funds come from anywhere else to prevent that from happening.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It could easily go to unregulated businesses who may or may not be capable.
I understand the fatigue of those parents, they desperately need a hand up. I think most would not be aware that is would be depriving public schools.. TPTB are not being open about it.
iscooterliberally
(2,861 posts)I voted against Rick Scott twice. I'm sure he's already lining his pockets. My sister has her kids in a charter school. She drives them about a half hour away, when the public school was within walking distance. She's like my mom in thinking that private or charter schools are better than public schools. I was sent to catholic school from K-12 and I hated it. I wanted to go to public school with my friends from the neighborhood. They could walk to school and didn't have to wear uniforms. I had to carpool with people that I didn't know or like, and it was always at least a half hour away from wherever we happened to live. After 12 years of catholic education, I can say, 'thank god I'm an atheist'.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And I love your username.
iscooterliberally
(2,861 posts)I thought of it during the Valerie Plame scandal. I also put 17K miles on my Harley in about 15 months when gas was at its peak. There was no one on the road then. I took a bad spill at the end of that. I'm OK now, but no more commuting on a motorcycle. Too dangerous.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It covers both topics exactly right.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)destroying public education and redistributing money to corporations and churches. It has the added benefit of destroying the separation of church and state.
This is NOT a fight for just educators and people with children. Everyone pays property taxes that fund public schools. Even those who don't directly own property pay by higher prices or rents that are passed forward to consumers to cover property taxes.
The diversion of these funds is truly a scandal that deserves top billing in our lame M$M.
mountain grammy
(26,634 posts)The great funneling of pubic money to churches, as if tax free status wasn't enough. They'll take it all. Bullshit!
http://www.9news.com/story/news/education/2014/12/10/voucher-case-colorado-supreme-court/20196085/
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)What scares me is that with both parties on board there is little public leader opposition.
Thanks for the article. Keep me posted on the ruling. It doesn't say when they will hear it, unless I missed it.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)I remember Rush Lumburger talking about his "Excellence in Broadcasting" bullshit.
Excellence has become "Here to fuck you sir!"
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)ChosenUnWisely
(588 posts)But the current Democratic Leadership is not all that interested in public education anyway they are into corporate education and testing nonsense too.
It is now time to end free public education in America.
Me thinks I am going to get others riled up and go out an kill public ed in America. I do not want my tax dollars supporting this and I can sure find a whole bunch of bipartisan agreement too.
End public education in my state and property taxes will drop by 60%, I will garner lots of support.