Secret recordings show US military and a Democratic congressman distrusted Hillary Clinton on Libya

[jakeXT]

Clinton will face tough questions about her march to war against Muammar Ghadafi if she runs for president

Phone calls were recorde between Ghadafi's son and US officials, including Rep. Dennis Kucinich, complaining that Clinton's State Dept. was sanitizing intelligence reports to make her case

She ultimately convinced the UN and NATO allies to back military intervention there, and persuaded President Obama to go along

Secret phone recordings have revealed that a Democratic member of Congress and top Pentagon leaders went around then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to negotiate with the Libyan regime of Muammar Gadhafi because they were convinced she was hell-bent on taking the U.S. to war

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2931683/Secret-recordings-military-Democratic-congressman-distrusted-Hillary-Clinton-Libya-went-negotiate-Gadhafi.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017241533

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

1. But if true, this would make teapartiers love her, right? Why would this hurt her chances

for president?

[TheKentuckian]

7. Of course not. What makes you think any particular action would make Tea Party types love anyone?

They primary truer believers than that without a thought. You can be staunchly conservative and even deep into the right wing and easily get on their shit list.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

8. Then how does this info, if true, hurt her in the election?

[Maedhros]

14. Well, it has convinced me that I won't vote for her.

Kucinich put it very succinctly:

'There was a distortion of events that were occurring in Libya to justify an intervention which was essentially wrong and illegal,' he said.

I was against the Libyan intervention when it happened, and I'm disgusted to learn than Hillary may have manipulated intelligence (just like Bush, BTW) to justify military action.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

16. OK... so it is Hillary vs Mike Huckabee...Sarah Palin is the VP for Huck...

Still going to not vote for her or vote in such a way that gives your vote to Huck (you know what I mean)


Or are you not in a swing state?

[Maedhros]

19. I'm in Oregon, but that's beside the point.

I will not vote for someone who lies the United States into military operations, regardless of party.

[TheKentuckian]

30. If her "strategy" is to attract Teahadists by being a bellicose warmonger then we might as well send

JEB the measurements for the drapes.

What in the world is the case you are trying to make?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

31. You just made it for me, you are willing to put an ACTUAL rightwing murderous piece of shit

in the WH over Hillary using the "they are all the same"

INSANE thought process



Yes, insane...


Maybe MADNESS would be more fitting

[ND-Dem]

43. so she's different from bush how? they both like to go to foreign countries, bomb them to hell,

take out their leaders and leave a shithole for the populace to live in.

but hell, they're doing it to us, too.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

45. If you honestly dont know what the differences would be if Bush was prez and had a repub

Senate and House, vs Hillary, then further discussion here is pointless

[TheKentuckian]

48. Where did you parse that "point" from. I said IF her strategy is to attract Teahadists by

bellicose Saber rattling then we may as well send JEB the drape measurements. Why did I say that? Because such a strategy is doomed to failure not because of any preference of outcome or any action or lack there off on my part but because it will never work.

How are you going to blame me for the failure of a stupid and delusional strategy?
It isn't my fault that your plan to punt on every first down regardless of field position won't win football games because I tell you that the bone headed plan is doomed.

What is your point that if everyone will just clap hard enough then your stupid plan to win the chess match by sacrificing your king will work out just swell?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. If she lied us into war she shouldn't have a chance at being the Democratic nominee unless we

show ourselves to be the biggest hypocrites in the history of this nation out of political expediency.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

34. So you are saying she knew the intel was a lie, do you have proof of that?

Cant wait to meet the females who are being thrown to the wolves by such principled voters and find out what they think of this.

You say you need an abortion?

OK, but you will have a 50/50 chance of surviving said abortion.

You say you want birth control?

Sorry...not unless you cross the border to get it.

And yes, I wish there was even a SLIGHT exaggeration to what I just said, but there isnt.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

35. Did you read the part where it says there are recordings about concerns that DoS

was sanitizing reports to bolster the case for war? I think there's even an OP on it and everything.

[TwilightGardener]

2. While I don't agree that Libya was exactly a good idea, and her

"We came, we saw, he died" breezy comment made me think she was not Presidential material, I oppose the circumventing of the State Dept. The Pentagon should not be conducting foreign policy on its own, especially when it runs counter to the SoS/President.

[madokie]

3. I don't put much stock in what Dennis says anymore

My neck is still sore from all the times I'd been told by him that the sky is falling


Dennis is irrelevant anymore. To me anyway

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Neo Liberal underground they put him there years ago

I waitin for Wellstone........ he's about the only one yet they haven't attacked..oh he's dead


My brother was on the wrestling team when Paul was captain at my High school

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. the tapes are real

I read that the military wanted to tone her down too for over militaristic solutions.

[jakeXT]

12. And the military probably had read the west point study on terrorism

http://library.uoregon.edu/ec/e-asia/reada/felter.pdf

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. Please make your point on what the pdf says

Its a nice link but give at least some detail of your point that it says

[jakeXT]

15. Sorry, I thought it was common knowledge , here is an article

Well known to the United States policymakers in Obama White House and Clinton State Department along with the National Security Council but not widely known to American mainstream media, the U.S. West Point Military Academy’s Combating Terrorism Center document reveals that Libya sent more fighters to Iraq’s Islamic militancy on a per-capita basis than any other Muslim country, including Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps more alarmingly for Western policymakers, most of the fighters came from eastern Libya, the center of the current uprising against Muammar el-Qaddafi.

The analysis of the Combating Terrorism Center of West Point was based on the records captured by coalition forces in October 2007 in a raid near Sinjar, along Iraq’s Syrian border.

The eastern Libyan city of Darnah sent more fighters to Iraq than any other single city or town, according to the West Point report. It noted that 52 militants came to Iraq from Darnah, a city of just 80,000 people (the second-largest source of fighters was Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which has a population of more than 4 million).

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/03/17/libyan-rebellion-has-radical-islamist-fervor-benghazi-link-islamic-militancyus-milit

[Ichingcarpenter]

17. so Hillary's and obama's policy failed in iraq

what else is new.

[jakeXT]

18. It probably depends on how you define success /nt

[Maedhros]

20. It was very successful in transferring public money into private military contractor coffers. [n/t]

[jakeXT]

23. And as a sideffect, I'm guessing they have figured out incompatibilty issues by now

Concerns that supplies of jet-launched precision bombs are growing short in Europe have reignited long-standing controversies over both burden-sharing and compatibility within NATO. While allied jets have largely followed the U.S. lead and converted to precision munitions over the last decade, they have struggled to keep pace, according to senior U.S. military officials.

Libya “has not been a very big war. If (the Europeans) would run out of these munitions this early in such a small operation, you have to wonder what kind of war they were planning on fighting,” said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a defense think tank. “Maybe they were just planning on using their air force for air shows.”

Despite U.S. badgering, European allies have been slow in some cases to modify their planes and other weapons systems so they can accommodate U.S. bombs. Retooling these fighter jets so that they are compatible with U.S. systems requires money, and all European militaries have faced significant cuts in recent years.

Typically, the British and French militaries buy munitions in batches and stockpile them. When arsenals start to run low, factories must be retooled and production lines restarted to replace the diminished stock, all of which can take time and additional money, said Elizabeth Quintana, an aerospace analyst at the Royal United Service Institute in London.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/2011/04/15/AF3O7ElD_story.html

[Ichingcarpenter]

22. Yemen is looking ripe for fubar

with all the drone killing. and not backing the right side.

[leveymg]

26. Amb. Stevens was well aware of the dominant E. Libyan role in AQ in Iraq terrorism.

He and the Secretary of State knew all about the track record of the Benghazi militants, and the likely consequences of arming them and allowing them to proceed en mass to Syria. So did CIA Director Petraeus who really moved this operation, perhaps, what beyond what had been described to the President.

[GeorgeGist]

5. So the Democratic congressman interfering in foreign affairs ...

was Dennis Kucinich?

[DURHAM D]

10. Too funny...

an agenda in search of a story.

But, at the end of the day I really trust Ghadafi Jr.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Oh, shush! We all know that our intervention was another Glorious Victory...or something.

[CJCRANE]

21. I supported the Libya intervention at the time

much to my regret. I got caught up in the hype.

A Libyan acquaintance later told me that everything reported in the MSM was propaganda (and this from a guy who didn't like Gadaffi).

[jakeXT]

24. Operation Southern Mistral,also highlighted by Kucinich at the time, showed the possible preplanning

[KoKo]

37. +1....

[leveymg]

25. The Joint Chiefs also pushed back against Bush over Iran in 2006

This sort of resistance by ranking uniformed leaders to reckless or overly-aggressive wars isn't exactly unprecedented, it just doesn't normally get publicized. The Bush White House's 2003 WMD fraud, however, have forced the JCS to assert resistance more actively and to work with some unlikely allies. It appears to have happened again in Libya, and it isn't a stretch to say the military also had a role in reigning in the imminent order to bomb Syria in September 2013.

The Chair and some members of the Joint Chiefs basically put a lid on the Administration's plans to "fall forward" into Iran. Gen. Pace was fired, but the Pentagon stood its ground. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/06/08/344522/--UPDATE-2-Pace-Fired-Because-He-Balked-at-Iran

This coincided with wider distribution of some details about Bush and Cheney's reckless mismanagement of terrorist threats. The CIA IG report on 9/11 was finally published in July after years of delays. See, https://www.cia.gov/news-information/press-releases-statements/press-release-archive-2007/911-ig-report-summary.html Based on what has leaked out since, the still classified parts establish top command was criminally negligent.

This doesn't surprise me, at all.

[Historic NY]

27. Is Dennis admitting to violating the Logan Act...

or is he just trying to get in the limelight.

[jakeXT]

28. He asked the House according to the video /nt

[outside]

29. Ghadafi Jr??????

Are you kidding me. The guy will say anything to live in the palace and fly to Paris for the weekends. I don't like/trust HRC but this coming from Fox News is no news to me.

[Octafish]

32. ''We came. We saw. He died.''

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051826/We-came-saw-died-What-Hillary-Clinton-told-news-reporter-moments-hearing-Gaddafis-death.html

Hah. Hah. It is to laugh.

[KoKo]

36. yes...she was amazingly pleased about that.

Now we can ask questions about "Why."

[ND-Dem]

44. she acts psycho

[polly7]

46. That was fucking nauseating.

Particularly after the whole world seeing (if they chose to) his torture, sodomy and murder on the street. No matter what one thought of him, that was absolutely sickening, disgusting and sad to anyone with a heart and an ounce of humanity.

Hahahahahahaha ...... we saw a man sodomized with a stick and beaten until he died. Hilarious stuff! Especially during an invasion based on nothing but LIES.

[AtomicKitten]

39. Some will argue she has foreign policy credentials

like it's a good thing. She scares the shit out of me. She is reactive and reckless, and she doesn't mind twisting arms outside her purview. I feel compelled to vote against that mindset.

[reddread]

40. Honduras

apparently, her supporters want a coup master for President.
that should show those buggers a dimes worth of difference, eh?

[woo me with science]

41. Thank you.

[AtomicKitten]

42. yes, that's a good example

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/9/hillary-clinton-honduraslatinamericaforeignpolicy.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/07/25/hillary-clintons-real-scandal-honduras-not-benghazi

[MohRokTah]

47. Dennis Kucinich????

[Ramses]

50. Hillary also supported the right wing military coup in Honduras.

Hillary is as far to the right as McCain, or Jeb Bush when it comes to foreign military policy, if not further to the right than both.

[Fred Sanders]

51. Shocking! Some in the military sometimes question political decisions, shocking!