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jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 01:55 PM Jan 2015

Secret recordings show US military and a Democratic congressman distrusted Hillary Clinton on Libya

Clinton will face tough questions about her march to war against Muammar Ghadafi if she runs for president

Phone calls were recorde between Ghadafi's son and US officials, including Rep. Dennis Kucinich, complaining that Clinton's State Dept. was sanitizing intelligence reports to make her case

She ultimately convinced the UN and NATO allies to back military intervention there, and persuaded President Obama to go along

Secret phone recordings have revealed that a Democratic member of Congress and top Pentagon leaders went around then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to negotiate with the Libyan regime of Muammar Gadhafi because they were convinced she was hell-bent on taking the U.S. to war

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2931683/Secret-recordings-military-Democratic-congressman-distrusted-Hillary-Clinton-Libya-went-negotiate-Gadhafi.html



http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017241533
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Secret recordings show US military and a Democratic congressman distrusted Hillary Clinton on Libya (Original Post) jakeXT Jan 2015 OP
But if true, this would make teapartiers love her, right? Why would this hurt her chances NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #1
Of course not. What makes you think any particular action would make Tea Party types love anyone? TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #7
Then how does this info, if true, hurt her in the election? NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #8
Well, it has convinced me that I won't vote for her. Maedhros Jan 2015 #14
OK... so it is Hillary vs Mike Huckabee...Sarah Palin is the VP for Huck... NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #16
I'm in Oregon, but that's beside the point. Maedhros Jan 2015 #19
If her "strategy" is to attract Teahadists by being a bellicose warmonger then we might as well send TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #30
You just made it for me, you are willing to put an ACTUAL rightwing murderous piece of shit NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #31
so she's different from bush how? they both like to go to foreign countries, bomb them to hell, ND-Dem Feb 2015 #43
If you honestly dont know what the differences would be if Bush was prez and had a repub NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #45
Where did you parse that "point" from. I said IF her strategy is to attract Teahadists by TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #48
If she lied us into war she shouldn't have a chance at being the Democratic nominee unless we Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #33
So you are saying she knew the intel was a lie, do you have proof of that? NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #34
Did you read the part where it says there are recordings about concerns that DoS Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #38
While I don't agree that Libya was exactly a good idea, and her TwilightGardener Jan 2015 #2
I don't put much stock in what Dennis says anymore madokie Jan 2015 #3
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #6
Neo Liberal underground they put him there years ago Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 #9
the tapes are real Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 #4
And the military probably had read the west point study on terrorism jakeXT Jan 2015 #12
Please make your point on what the pdf says Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 #13
Sorry, I thought it was common knowledge , here is an article jakeXT Jan 2015 #15
so Hillary's and obama's policy failed in iraq Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 #17
It probably depends on how you define success /nt jakeXT Jan 2015 #18
It was very successful in transferring public money into private military contractor coffers. [n/t] Maedhros Jan 2015 #20
And as a sideffect, I'm guessing they have figured out incompatibilty issues by now jakeXT Jan 2015 #23
Yemen is looking ripe for fubar Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 #22
Amb. Stevens was well aware of the dominant E. Libyan role in AQ in Iraq terrorism. leveymg Jan 2015 #26
So the Democratic congressman interfering in foreign affairs ... GeorgeGist Jan 2015 #5
Too funny... DURHAM D Jan 2015 #10
Oh, shush! We all know that our intervention was another Glorious Victory...or something. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #11
I supported the Libya intervention at the time CJCRANE Jan 2015 #21
Operation Southern Mistral,also highlighted by Kucinich at the time, showed the possible preplanning jakeXT Jan 2015 #24
+1.... KoKo Feb 2015 #37
The Joint Chiefs also pushed back against Bush over Iran in 2006 leveymg Jan 2015 #25
Is Dennis admitting to violating the Logan Act... Historic NY Jan 2015 #27
He asked the House according to the video /nt jakeXT Jan 2015 #28
Ghadafi Jr?????? outside Jan 2015 #29
''We came. We saw. He died.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #32
yes...she was amazingly pleased about that. KoKo Feb 2015 #36
she acts psycho ND-Dem Feb 2015 #44
That was fucking nauseating. polly7 Feb 2015 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author uhnope Feb 2015 #49
Some will argue she has foreign policy credentials AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #39
Honduras reddread Feb 2015 #40
Thank you. woo me with science Feb 2015 #41
yes, that's a good example AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #42
Dennis Kucinich???? MohRokTah Feb 2015 #47
Hillary also supported the right wing military coup in Honduras. Ramses Feb 2015 #50
Shocking! Some in the military sometimes question political decisions, shocking! Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #51

TheKentuckian

(24,778 posts)
7. Of course not. What makes you think any particular action would make Tea Party types love anyone?
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:13 PM
Jan 2015

They primary truer believers than that without a thought. You can be staunchly conservative and even deep into the right wing and easily get on their shit list.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
14. Well, it has convinced me that I won't vote for her.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jan 2015

Kucinich put it very succinctly:

'There was a distortion of events that were occurring in Libya to justify an intervention which was essentially wrong and illegal,' he said.


I was against the Libyan intervention when it happened, and I'm disgusted to learn than Hillary may have manipulated intelligence (just like Bush, BTW) to justify military action.


NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
16. OK... so it is Hillary vs Mike Huckabee...Sarah Palin is the VP for Huck...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:32 PM
Jan 2015

Still going to not vote for her or vote in such a way that gives your vote to Huck (you know what I mean)


Or are you not in a swing state?

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
19. I'm in Oregon, but that's beside the point.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:44 PM
Jan 2015

I will not vote for someone who lies the United States into military operations, regardless of party.

TheKentuckian

(24,778 posts)
30. If her "strategy" is to attract Teahadists by being a bellicose warmonger then we might as well send
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 10:58 AM
Feb 2015

JEB the measurements for the drapes.

What in the world is the case you are trying to make?

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
31. You just made it for me, you are willing to put an ACTUAL rightwing murderous piece of shit
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:36 PM
Feb 2015

in the WH over Hillary using the "they are all the same"

INSANE thought process



Yes, insane...


Maybe MADNESS would be more fitting

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
43. so she's different from bush how? they both like to go to foreign countries, bomb them to hell,
Tue Feb 3, 2015, 04:44 AM
Feb 2015

take out their leaders and leave a shithole for the populace to live in.

but hell, they're doing it to us, too.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
45. If you honestly dont know what the differences would be if Bush was prez and had a repub
Tue Feb 3, 2015, 11:29 AM
Feb 2015

Senate and House, vs Hillary, then further discussion here is pointless

TheKentuckian

(24,778 posts)
48. Where did you parse that "point" from. I said IF her strategy is to attract Teahadists by
Tue Feb 3, 2015, 03:57 PM
Feb 2015

bellicose Saber rattling then we may as well send JEB the drape measurements. Why did I say that? Because such a strategy is doomed to failure not because of any preference of outcome or any action or lack there off on my part but because it will never work.

How are you going to blame me for the failure of a stupid and delusional strategy?
It isn't my fault that your plan to punt on every first down regardless of field position won't win football games because I tell you that the bone headed plan is doomed.

What is your point that if everyone will just clap hard enough then your stupid plan to win the chess match by sacrificing your king will work out just swell?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
33. If she lied us into war she shouldn't have a chance at being the Democratic nominee unless we
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:25 PM
Feb 2015

show ourselves to be the biggest hypocrites in the history of this nation out of political expediency.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
34. So you are saying she knew the intel was a lie, do you have proof of that?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:38 PM
Feb 2015

Cant wait to meet the females who are being thrown to the wolves by such principled voters and find out what they think of this.

You say you need an abortion?

OK, but you will have a 50/50 chance of surviving said abortion.

You say you want birth control?

Sorry...not unless you cross the border to get it.

And yes, I wish there was even a SLIGHT exaggeration to what I just said, but there isnt.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
35. Did you read the part where it says there are recordings about concerns that DoS
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:43 PM
Feb 2015

was sanitizing reports to bolster the case for war? I think there's even an OP on it and everything.

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #35)

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
2. While I don't agree that Libya was exactly a good idea, and her
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:00 PM
Jan 2015

"We came, we saw, he died" breezy comment made me think she was not Presidential material, I oppose the circumventing of the State Dept. The Pentagon should not be conducting foreign policy on its own, especially when it runs counter to the SoS/President.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
3. I don't put much stock in what Dennis says anymore
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:01 PM
Jan 2015

My neck is still sore from all the times I'd been told by him that the sky is falling


Dennis is irrelevant anymore. To me anyway

Response to madokie (Reply #3)

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
9. Neo Liberal underground they put him there years ago
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:20 PM
Jan 2015

I waitin for Wellstone........ he's about the only one yet they haven't attacked..oh he's dead


My brother was on the wrestling team when Paul was captain at my High school

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
13. Please make your point on what the pdf says
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jan 2015

Its a nice link but give at least some detail of your point that it says

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
15. Sorry, I thought it was common knowledge , here is an article
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jan 2015

Well known to the United States policymakers in Obama White House and Clinton State Department along with the National Security Council but not widely known to American mainstream media, the U.S. West Point Military Academy’s Combating Terrorism Center document reveals that Libya sent more fighters to Iraq’s Islamic militancy on a per-capita basis than any other Muslim country, including Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps more alarmingly for Western policymakers, most of the fighters came from eastern Libya, the center of the current uprising against Muammar el-Qaddafi.

The analysis of the Combating Terrorism Center of West Point was based on the records captured by coalition forces in October 2007 in a raid near Sinjar, along Iraq’s Syrian border.

The eastern Libyan city of Darnah sent more fighters to Iraq than any other single city or town, according to the West Point report. It noted that 52 militants came to Iraq from Darnah, a city of just 80,000 people (the second-largest source of fighters was Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which has a population of more than 4 million).

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/03/17/libyan-rebellion-has-radical-islamist-fervor-benghazi-link-islamic-militancyus-milit

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
20. It was very successful in transferring public money into private military contractor coffers. [n/t]
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:45 PM
Jan 2015

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
23. And as a sideffect, I'm guessing they have figured out incompatibilty issues by now
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:56 PM
Jan 2015

Concerns that supplies of jet-launched precision bombs are growing short in Europe have reignited long-standing controversies over both burden-sharing and compatibility within NATO. While allied jets have largely followed the U.S. lead and converted to precision munitions over the last decade, they have struggled to keep pace, according to senior U.S. military officials.

Libya “has not been a very big war. If (the Europeans) would run out of these munitions this early in such a small operation, you have to wonder what kind of war they were planning on fighting,” said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a defense think tank. “Maybe they were just planning on using their air force for air shows.”

Despite U.S. badgering, European allies have been slow in some cases to modify their planes and other weapons systems so they can accommodate U.S. bombs. Retooling these fighter jets so that they are compatible with U.S. systems requires money, and all European militaries have faced significant cuts in recent years.

Typically, the British and French militaries buy munitions in batches and stockpile them. When arsenals start to run low, factories must be retooled and production lines restarted to replace the diminished stock, all of which can take time and additional money, said Elizabeth Quintana, an aerospace analyst at the Royal United Service Institute in London.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/2011/04/15/AF3O7ElD_story.html

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
26. Amb. Stevens was well aware of the dominant E. Libyan role in AQ in Iraq terrorism.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 04:35 PM
Jan 2015

He and the Secretary of State knew all about the track record of the Benghazi militants, and the likely consequences of arming them and allowing them to proceed en mass to Syria. So did CIA Director Petraeus who really moved this operation, perhaps, what beyond what had been described to the President.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
21. I supported the Libya intervention at the time
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:49 PM
Jan 2015

much to my regret. I got caught up in the hype.

A Libyan acquaintance later told me that everything reported in the MSM was propaganda (and this from a guy who didn't like Gadaffi).

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
24. Operation Southern Mistral,also highlighted by Kucinich at the time, showed the possible preplanning
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 03:18 PM
Jan 2015

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
25. The Joint Chiefs also pushed back against Bush over Iran in 2006
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 04:17 PM
Jan 2015

This sort of resistance by ranking uniformed leaders to reckless or overly-aggressive wars isn't exactly unprecedented, it just doesn't normally get publicized. The Bush White House's 2003 WMD fraud, however, have forced the JCS to assert resistance more actively and to work with some unlikely allies. It appears to have happened again in Libya, and it isn't a stretch to say the military also had a role in reigning in the imminent order to bomb Syria in September 2013.

The Chair and some members of the Joint Chiefs basically put a lid on the Administration's plans to "fall forward" into Iran. Gen. Pace was fired, but the Pentagon stood its ground. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/06/08/344522/--UPDATE-2-Pace-Fired-Because-He-Balked-at-Iran

This coincided with wider distribution of some details about Bush and Cheney's reckless mismanagement of terrorist threats. The CIA IG report on 9/11 was finally published in July after years of delays. See, https://www.cia.gov/news-information/press-releases-statements/press-release-archive-2007/911-ig-report-summary.html Based on what has leaked out since, the still classified parts establish top command was criminally negligent.


This doesn't surprise me, at all.
 

outside

(70 posts)
29. Ghadafi Jr??????
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 05:32 PM
Jan 2015

Are you kidding me. The guy will say anything to live in the palace and fly to Paris for the weekends. I don't like/trust HRC but this coming from Fox News is no news to me.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
46. That was fucking nauseating.
Tue Feb 3, 2015, 11:39 AM
Feb 2015

Particularly after the whole world seeing (if they chose to) his torture, sodomy and murder on the street. No matter what one thought of him, that was absolutely sickening, disgusting and sad to anyone with a heart and an ounce of humanity.



Hahahahahahaha ...... we saw a man sodomized with a stick and beaten until he died. Hilarious stuff! Especially during an invasion based on nothing but LIES.

Response to polly7 (Reply #46)

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
39. Some will argue she has foreign policy credentials
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 05:57 PM
Feb 2015

like it's a good thing. She scares the shit out of me. She is reactive and reckless, and she doesn't mind twisting arms outside her purview. I feel compelled to vote against that mindset.

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
40. Honduras
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 06:22 PM
Feb 2015

apparently, her supporters want a coup master for President.
that should show those buggers a dimes worth of difference, eh?

 

Ramses

(721 posts)
50. Hillary also supported the right wing military coup in Honduras.
Tue Feb 3, 2015, 09:55 PM
Feb 2015

Hillary is as far to the right as McCain, or Jeb Bush when it comes to foreign military policy, if not further to the right than both.

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