General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis message was self-deleted by its author
This message was self-deleted by its author (KMOD) on Sat Nov 7, 2015, 09:10 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)Only to tin foilers online. There will be no asterisk. They'll be no lifetime bans. This is 99% online lunacy and 1% media crap.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)remember?
Did you read the link?
I don't know if there will be a suspension, at least not before the superbowl, but his credibility and respect have certainly taken a hit. It was obvious when Belichick was very uncharacteristic at his press conference today. Geez, the man actually spoke in complete sentences and was very detailed in answering questions.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)A perfect example of online lunacy. Asterisk? No such thing in NFL. Only in your head pal. You will always ALWAYS have the internet where you can type whatever you want. Without proof it's all you have.
Enjoy! 😃
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Pats fans are funny.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)n/t
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Haters gonna hate was the prevailing view with the Pats crowd. The only people complaining and carry on at work were Giants and Jets fans. Meh.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)they were in denial over spygate as well.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)They're laughing all the way to sb. What can be done? Nothing. No proof.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)It's a bullshit witch hunt.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)We don't know yet. They haven't released the results of the ball PSI after the game, yet.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)those results haven't been release yet. But it's clearly being taken a lot more seriously than folks are thinking.
Those pressers were weird, and Kraft's silence speaks volumes.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Another made up controversy for ratings...
onenote
(42,714 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)and aside from the ball used on the Pats very first possession in the second half, which was again under inflated, the rest of the half the Pats used balls inflated to the rules and after the game those balls were within NFL rules.
onenote
(42,714 posts)That is contrary to what the league stated and its contrary to the statement from a Colts player that the Pats started using Colts' footballs late in FIRST half.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/colts-player-patriots-actually-used-our-balls-in-second-half/
KMOD
(7,906 posts)from what I remember, it was just on the first offensive series. .
After that, it was fine.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)So yeah, I can't prove it.
But basically the article I read was that on the first Patriots possession of the second half, the ball was underinflated. After that, the used Colts balls and there was no other issue. All game balls were within regulation at the end of the game.
I'll keep looking. Hope I can find it. Still, probably a no biggie anyway.
http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-was-aware-of-patriots-deflation-allegations-1680914291
onenote
(42,714 posts)It is now surmised that the problem with the ball being used for the first play of the second half was that it was kicking ball, not that it was under-inflated.
It states NOT including the Kicking ball.
And the ball used by the offense was unsuitable for play.
onenote
(42,714 posts)(Update: In the video above, Mike Carey surmises that the ball was switched out because it was a K-ball. He was just guessing, but so are weit's unknown why that ball was swapped out, and it's presumptuous for me to assume it was one of the Flat 11.)
So the source you cite when you claimed originally that the ball was swapped out because it was under-inflated now states that is a presumptuous assumption).
CanonRay
(14,104 posts)Again. They are and always will be branded as the team that cheats.
If you cheat to go from an A- to an A+ is it still not cheating?
I have no skin in the game, I'm a Bears fan. They're shit, but at least they don't cheat.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)I only switched to the Pats when I moved deeper into Pats territory in 2010. It helps to be on the same team as your friends and neighbors.
fairweather, football swinger.
please don't ban me,
brush
(53,787 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 23, 2015, 07:56 AM - Edit history (1)
what with spy-gate, non-eligible receiver-gate, tuck rule-gate, and now deflate-gate.
No other franchise is continually involved in sneaky crap that gives them an advantage.
Sorry Pat fans, it is what it is.
Deal with it, your boys couldn't just play it straight (even when they have to know everyone does not completely trust them) so now they are officially suspect from here on in.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Who knows what else they've done.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Media is pushing this nonsense.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)Why is Tom Brady talking about isis but my president isn't??!
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Nixon didn't need to have those two bit criminals break into the Democratic Party headquarters. He was going to trounce McGovern and the entire country knew it. Hell, I was nine years old at the time and I knew there was no way McGovern stood a chance.
But he still cheated.
Look at where it got him.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)Maybe I've changed my mind about the whole issue. I think Brady may have been the second shooter on the grassy knoll.
That's the most baffling part, it wasn't necessary for him to do this. It's mind boggling.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)The revelations about McGovern's running mate Thomas Eagleton's psychiatric treatment came out in July. The Eagleton affair, and the way it was handled by the McGovern camp, were what really killed McGovern's chances. I wouldn't be surprised if Eagleton's psychiatric history was among the information that was stolen by Nixon's plumbers at the Watergate.
former9thward
(32,020 posts)Nobody says Nixon ordered it or knew about it in advance.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)I love it!
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)I love how everyone against the pats are all tripping and the pats fans are laughing.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)you weren't the least bit troubled by Belichick's presser?
He's taking it absolutely serious. Funny how the fans aren't.
Kraft hasn't even made a statement yet. It's pretty telling that they are concerned about it in Foxboro.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)The fans are laughing at it all. You INSIST they admit guilt and be silent!!!
Not happening is it? You're getting laughed at because it's a croc and they know it.
Sorry kid.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I'm out. Enjoy the super bowl. It's going to be the Patriots vs Seattle. Ballghazigate? That's all folks.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Brady's, yes, but don't even tout your holier than though bullshit here when you admitted exactly what you tried to contradict.
It will all play out, and did you give a fuck when Ray Lewis (murderer/accomplice) was allowed on the Ravens and celebrated when they won the Superbowl?
I live outside of Atlanta and that was some fucking nasty shit. Ohhh, but a ball that didn't factor a fucking PISS IN THE WIND chaps your ass.
Nice.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Riff, I admitted that Brady is one of the greatest. I admitted that he didn't need this to win.
All I know is Belichick was very uncharacteristic at his presser, Brady, yeah was obviously uncomfortable, and Kraft has said nada yet. Kraft, who called Belichick a schmuck after spygate. I can't imagine Kraft is not very POed right now, that his entire franchise is being smeared in the press less than two weeks from the superbowl.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Agree with you on certain points but somehow believe the fact that you felt the need to start this...is weird.
Hey, no hard feelings, best of luck to MY TEAM.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)quite understand the advantages, the risk/reward for the advantages, etc. Yet they seem interested in learning more, so I'm happy to oblige.
Good Luck, I'll probably be rooting for the Hawks, but I don't hate the fans, just the team. I'm sure you understand.
Nice try, really.
You make it sound so...innocent.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)That's the entire Pats defense, right there, lmao.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)I grew up in New England and love all my teams.
It's sacrilege if I didn't.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)As a Jets fan, I don't like the Pats, but as a football fan I sincerely respect them.
And I certainly have nothing against their fans. After all, how many years did the Patriots fans have to sit on those crappy, aluminum, high school bleachers rooting for many poor teams, before they finally got a really cool stadium and a future HOF QB.
And yes, the Jets are pathetic, but I'm not.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)My in-laws have had season tickets for years except for the last 3 so I've been to several games.
Would rather watch it from home now anyway and we haven't live in NE for over a decade, but my husband would fly up for games.
I feel for you. Don't get why they kept Rex Ryan for so long...I was beginning to think he had something on the organization, but my bf now lives in Seattle, her husband is a Jets fan and they both HATE the Patriots.
She called me today and I answered with a text (I was slightly busy) but I'm going to get an earful.
Good luck next season, and I do mean it!
Fla Dem
(23,690 posts)Then to have some nebulous charges leveled against the team and coach has to be like a punch in the stomach. It's also a major distraction when they're trying to get ready for the biggest game of te year.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Again, I don't think the advantage was that great, yet.....
Fla Dem
(23,690 posts)I can't imagine either one of them standing over a container of balls sticking a needle with a gauge in each of them methodically letting air out. Someone would have seen them, and with only an hour or so to go
before the start of the game, I'm sure they would have other things to do.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)So whether it's McDaniel or the equipment guy, someone altered them, specifically for Tom Brady at his wishes.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)CurtEastPoint
(18,649 posts)Nyc72dem
(63 posts)n/t
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)Yawn. It's all a waste of time and media.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)might be a special place they store the swapped balls.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I don't know how close you follow football, but NFL coaches are notoriously paranoid people. Sometimes for good reason.
From the beginning, whether they accuse each other of spying via audio or video in visitors locker rooms, or believing that any plane or helicopter flying near the vicinity is an opposing team spying, or picking up free agents in the offseason to try and learn the opponents plays, or pumping in fake crowd noise.
They are all paranoid, and that's probably because they all try to find advantages somehow. Eventually these practices are exposed, and the rules are changed to prevent future mishaps.
The difference here, is when you are caught, and then warned, and yet you continue, well that crosses a line.
Oh, and incidentally, Tom Brady petitioned the league to make a change a few years ago. His petition, which was granted, allowed visiting teams to bring their own balls on the road. Probably nothing, but it does adds fuel to the speculative fire.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I don't follow closely, but everyone in Seattle kind of woke up lately and started paying attention.
Interesting about Tom Brady's petition!
brush
(53,787 posts)getting in situations like this. Perceptions of the Patriots by the majority of football fans is that they will do anything to gain an advantage. Everyone still remembers the filming scandal, and then just recently the non-eligible receiver tricks in the Ravens game. And who can forget the bs tuck rule that turned an obvious fumble into a "Brady's arm going forward" thus negating an obvious fumble that would have sent the Raiders to the Super Bowl that year instead of the Patriots. Why is this franchise always involved in this crap?
Now this this with the footballs. Somebody purposely deflated them, which made them easier to throw by the qb and easier to grip by the receivers and running backs.
I know Pat fans don't want to hear it but with a regulation ball Brady may have overthrew some of his receivers like Luck did with the harder ball he was using.
Interceptions theoretically could have happened as a result, thus changing the dynamics of the game, especially if it happened in the first half when the game was still somewhat close.
You'd think there would have been a team-wide directive sent out to everyone to "just keep everything on the up and up. That didn't happen so whether Pats fans want to admit it or not, this latest scandal insures the franchise's legacy will be always be somewhat shady.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)onenote
(42,714 posts)and brady being better in the second half when he was using fully inflated footballs.
Brady threw a lot of bad passes in the first half.
brush
(53,787 posts)are the Patriots about who deflated the balls.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)(or not) from the "easier" ball?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)They don't share them.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Not having one set of official balls makes no sense.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Here's the official rules on the ball.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf
So as you see, there is some, though not much leeway.
The problem in this controversy is that after the balls are inspected by the NFL officials, they are then placed in the teams possession where now we see, changes can happen.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)the balls at the superbowl will be watched by designated official ball watchers. And I assume that will continue in the future to prevent any team from altering the ball PSI after the officials approve them.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)ecstatic
(32,707 posts)And did he say anything? No. Even if he didn't have the needle in his hand, or even if he wasn't part of the conspiracy, an experienced player like him can feel the difference... He was perfectly content with a fraudulent victory.
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)Every QB sets the balls up the way they like them. Every. Single. One.
I'm not even a Patriots fan and I think this whole thing is just stupid, ridiculous sour grapes from teams that got beat.
Mindless hate should be reserved for the Dallas Cowboys alone.
brush
(53,787 posts)thus making them easier to throw and hold on to,
I watched the game and Andrew Luck overthrew his receivers a few times using the harder, untampered with balls from his team.
Theoretically Brady may have done that also and maybe a couple of the overthrows could have been intercepted if Brady was using the harder-to-grip regulation ball. You never know but I for one want a level playing field no film-gate, no trick play/non-eligible reciever-gate, no tuck rule-gate, and of course no deflate-gate.
Come on Patriots, cut the crap and stop fu_king with the integrity of the game.
onenote
(42,714 posts)You seem awfully certain.
But here are some facts:
Brady was much much better in the second half when it indisputable that he was using properly inflated footballs. During the first half he was 11/21. Barely over 50 percent. On the season, he completed 64% of his passes. In the second half he was 12/14 using properly inflated footballs.
You and I and no one here knows the actual extent to which the footballs as tested were under inflated. Yes, there are reports that it was 2 psi, but those reports aren't from the NFL, and I for one view them pretty with suspicion. After all, 2 psi down from the permitted range is a drop of between 16 and 22 percent. Yet the officials, who handle the footballs after every play, FOR BOTH TEAMS, never noticed any difference? That's hard to square with the idea that the balls were deflated to a significant degree.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)lol
PS. It is so much more amusing because of the tuck rule. lol
onenote
(42,714 posts)What confirmed evidence is there that the balls were "quite a bit softer"? Well, none actually. There are reports that the balls were under inflated by 2 psi, which would be 16 to 22 percent which probably would be "quite a bit softer"-- but there also were reports that Colt LB D'Quell Jackson (a nine year vet) noticed that the ball was under-inflated when he intercepted a Brady pass, but Jackson denies that he noticed at all. And the referees didn't notice the under-inflation, despite handling the ball after every play for both teams.
THose facts don't suggest the refs were at fault. They suggest that the unconditional statement that the balls were "quite a bit softer" isnt backed up by anyone at this time.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Even he noted that he was quite particular with the balls he chose.
Other QBs, Aikman, Simms, Brunell, etc. have said the same.
Geez, even Madden suggested as much.
If the balls were deflated, it came at Brady's request. period.
No one would go rouge and do this on their own.
onenote
(42,714 posts)At most it proves exactly what he said: he's particular about the football. He probably likes them on the low end of the scale.
Doesn't do a thing to pack up the other poster's unsubstantiated assertion that the balls were "quite a bit softer."
KMOD
(7,906 posts)There is a huge NFL investigation going on right now lol
It's being taken quite seriously, including Bob Kraft, and Bill Belicheck. Just sayin'
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)"Mindless hate should be reserved for the Dallas Cowboys alone."
I don't care about the Cowboys one way or the other. Same thing with the Patriots, except they cheat.
Wounded Bear
(58,666 posts).
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)that it wasn't necessary.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)especially if he wins next Sunday.
This is sort of a non-issue to me.
oldtime dfl_er
(6,931 posts)in a tweet after Brady's presser, "its always the coverup".
Here's the thing. Imagine if Andy Murray showed up to Wimbledon with a tennis racquet that was 15% larger than the tennis federation rules allow. Imagine he switched to a regulation sized racquet after winning the first set, and went on to win the match using regulation sized racquets. People would say he didn't "need" that larger racquet, he didn't "need" to cheat (or try to cheat). And yet he chose to cheat anyway, perhaps to give himself confidence, perhaps to get an edge in that all important first set, perhaps for some other reason.
Facts are facts, rules are rules, and the fact, as stated by the NFL, is that 11 of 12 balls were deflated AFTER inspection.
The outcome of the game is moot, it's the fact that someone felt the need to cheat that's important. And that's no small thing.
Hari Seldon
(154 posts)and it gives the league YET ANOTHER black eye this year (Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson...)
Instead of reflecting on the History of the Big Game, we will be considering the question of the cheatership of the New England Football Team.
And now EVERYONE wants the Seahawks to win.