BREAKING: Pres.Obama to VETO KXL Pipeline.

[JaneyVee]

President Barack Obama is planning to veto a bill that would force approval of the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, according to the Associated Press.

That's all as of now: http://grist.org/politics/obama-to-veto-keystone-xl-bill/?utm_content=bufferdb2dd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Takket]

1. i read the coments on the CNN article...

which are notoriously full of loud mouthed right wingers, and even there there was almost no support for keystone. This thing is DOA. the big oil employees in congress (I.E. the rethugs) are the only ones who want this.

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. The loud mouthed right wingers I'm exposed to on a regular basis...

despise it. Feels kind of weird to agree with them on something after so many years.

[BeyondGeography]

26. Keystone is a true special interest turd

Some of them really do have their limits.

[NewJeffCT]

33. just curious

but, what is the RW reason behind not supporting Big Oil?

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. Funny you should ask...

As I was posting I realized they never really gave me coherent reasons for opposing it, just "knew" it was something they didn't like. And I confess I never bothered to ask. Although one did blather something about benefiting a foreign country and not the U.S.

[freshwest]

77. Just as Obama always said. The cognitive dissonance will make them go nuts.

[Cha]

110. Fresh!

[IkeRepublican]

101. Tell them Obama's against it

That'll change their tune real fucking quick because what Obama supports or doesn't support completely dictates what they support or don't support. The constant opposite view - that's the Republican voter policy in a nutshell.

Some of them are so obsessed with Obama and nothing but, that if one of them "heard" Obama didn't let his dog shit on the White House lawn, they'd immediately invite all the neighborhood dogs over to shit on their grass.

"Ain't no soshulust commyooniss d'muhcrat gonna tell ME where dogs need to shit!"

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. Republicans want it for one reason only, because Environmentalists HATE it....

They have decided this is important so they can prove to DC that the Democrats and the Environmental Movement have no power over them.

That, and Republicans are now TROLLS.

[mucifer]

68. No they want it because the billionaires who fund their campaigns want it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. That's just a bonus.

[bluesbassman]

2. Bravo Mr. President!

[msanthrope]

3. Never doubted it for a second. But some here did. nt

[Autumn]

10. i was one of those. And I am fucking happy to

eat crow on this.

[msanthrope]

12. I make a very tender cutlet of the breast, use the rest for pie.

Just kidding.....this is a day for unity.

[Number23]

52. You are the coolest.

Happy New Year, my sweet.

[msanthrope]

58. I thank you for the lovely compliment, and wish you and yours Peace and Justice.

For your amusement.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014981198

[Number23]

61. Damn, I didn't even know that poster was still here.

Sometimes ignorance truly is bliss.

Serious props for not only handling that dazzling display of cluelessness but for taking the time and having the patience to wade into that mess in the first place.

[msanthrope]

64. Well, had to earn my bonus, right? nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

81. Some never learn not to underestimate President Obama....I have been saying that for years now....

He holds his cards close to his vest.

[Autumn]

84. The legislation refrenced is a bill forcing the passage of the KXL. The decision on KXL

rests with him, not Congress and I was very happy to see him shoot their asses down with his veto threat.

[VanillaRhapsody]

87. exactly....thus the cards close to his vest.....do NOT try to figure him out...

He has a very good poker face. He often uses the fact that SOME people react very knee jerk to every issue he is facing.....its how he surprises the Republicans with a Left Hook so often!

[Autumn]

89. Sure

[BlueCaliDem]

19. And continue to do so. But they just don't like President Obama so that colors

their judgment.

[msanthrope]

23. Well, some light their hair with tar sand oil.....it's got a high ignition point not

easily tamed.

[BlueCaliDem]

88. It never ceases to amaze me.

The [URL=http://www.sherv.net/][IMG][/IMG][/URL] crowd will not be dissuaded, though. They'll just go to the next thing to bash President Obama with. TPP anyone?

[Cali_Democrat]

40. And the reason why some don't like Obama is because of his color. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

90. I didn't want to believe that before, but...

...I rarely see them, if ever, on any threads that protest the racism prevalent in our police corps and judicial system, and I've got to begin to believe that could play a factor in why they're so negative about him for the tiniest things, even things he hasn't even done yet.

[MADem]

46. Ain't that the truth--the tar was heated and the chickenfeathers plucked, with over-the-top

"enthusiasm." Some folks really wanted him to approve it, I think, just so they could beat him up after the fact.

Just the strangest thing....

The eagerness to find the Worst Possible Scenario--particularly with regard to POTUS-- is what makes it less fun to have conversations here. All those hot-breathed threads with all the vitriolic assumptions...it's just so ridiculous!!!! This place is getting less relevant to Democratic Party awareness/GOTV/candidate touting, and more of a crab-fest.

[msanthrope]

55. Aww...we still have the TPP threads!!! nt

[MADem]

59. Yeah, i have to laugh at those, too...

That thing won't land on anyone's desk unless the Senate puts it there, but no one has said a doggone thing about trying to push anyone in the Senate one way or another--no wonder Congress gets away with such shitty reviews, no one wants to hold their feet to the fire!

[msanthrope]

62. Did you ever read the Presidential Time Machine thread on the TPP?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024550863#post24

[MADem]

113. Game-set-match~!

Well done, you!

[freshwest]

79. Plus 100B, same amount of dollars the Koch brothers' expected to get in one year of this boondoggle.

His veto is not only good for climate change and aquifers, it's also good for democracy. It will set the mark for NOT giving into the fossil fuel magnates.

Expect the sound of crickets just as after Obama restored relations with Cuba. I'm sure something will be dragged out of the litter box to be tossed about wihin a day or less. Most likely on this thread.

[joshcryer]

78. I had doubts until I saw it was $8 billion.

And oil prices plummeted.

[Cha]

108. Nor did I, msanthrope.. Can't wait until it's a

Done Deal!

[WinkyDink]

4. Wow. Now THAT is awesome!

[RiverLover]

5. WooHoo!!!

Absofrickinglutely Fantastic!!

[Sunlei]

7. XM pipeline will never be able to 'pretend' they're a clean, healthy, 'trustworthy' Industry.

President Obama really is Superman!

Republicans always try to bypass or ignore the permit process and many, many times, that tactic has worked for them.

Republicans always try to sneak-in destructive, nasty bill riders and that delays the entire bill process for every American.

[m-lekktor]

8. yay!! k & R nt

[Autumn]

9. President Obama. Thank you.

[QC]

11. Excellent!

[yuiyoshida]

13. good...

[NV Whino]

14. I'm happy to be wrong on this one.

Good for him.

[dawg]

15. Woof!

Good job, Mr. President!

[rhett o rick]

16. Very good. nm

[Puglover]

17. Bravo Mr. President!

Thank you.

[NYC_SKP]

18. Kick. (nt)

[Scurrilous]

20. Excellent!!

[spanone]

21. k&r...

[City Lights]

22. Great news!

Thank you, Mr. President!

[Brainstormy]

24. SO pleased! n/t

[handmade34]

25. Thank you...

President Obama!!

[Zen Democrat]

27. The Koch Brothers own the majority of the tar sand leases in Canada.

Which is what would go through the Keystone XL pipeline, were it to be built. Thanks, Obama!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Good. I hope he does the same on TPP.

Fat chance.

[AgingAmerican]

29. Yay!

Nt

[Hoyt]

30. Good. Better than most expected, now what's he going to do to sell us down the river?

Last edited Tue Jan 6, 2015, 08:22 PM - Edit history (1)

[tridim]

41. I'd say that most already knew he would do the right thing.

As he ALWAYS does.

[great white snark]

74. Aw, sorry this outrage cow dried up for ya...there's always TPP.

We'll always have TPP.

[freshwest]

82. And Paris. Or at least Plaster of Paris.

[IronLionZion]

112. Does this mean some DUers will start supporting the pipeline?

[whatchamacallit]

31. Awesome!

[flamingdem]

32. Barack "The ROCK"

rocks! !!!! ! !!!!

[Hutzpa]

34. Lovely

Let's make it official.

[stevenleser]

35. But! But! But! That can't be! Corporatist shill, wall street Whargarble!!!11!11!!11elevens!!!!

[MADem]

47. I don't know about you, but if I needed transportation in a hurry,

I would gladly buy a used car from that man....

[Number23]

54. "I would gladly buy a used car from that man" MADem for the WIN!!!

Happy New Year!

[freshwest]

83. Don't hold back! Heads have been on fire for a long, long time!

[Jack Rabbit]

38. Now, that's the man I voted for twice.

[Duval]

39. Yayyy!

Another veto on the TPP would really make my day!!

[bigwillq]

42. Fantastic!

K and R

[Not Me]

43. With oil at $48 a barrel

How does this make financial sense anymore?

[Quackers]

60. Exactly!

It doesn't make any sense for anyone to support it at current prices.

[ozone_man]

80. He could approve it, and it still wouldn't be built.

Does that make his action any less important? A little, but it is great that he did.

[kentuck]

44. Is he gonna play hardball politics with the Republicans?

Simply hold the Keystone XL hostage, so as to get some cooperation from the Republicans?

I'm hoping he does...

[Hekate]

93. The "hostage" is dead and floating belly-up. POTUS is going to veto the bill. nt

[stage left]

45. Thank you, President Obama.

This is good news!

[hue]

48. Yes this is wonderful news and I expected it. But this may not be the end of it.

[Z_California]

49. Thank you Mr. President!

I admit I wasn't sure about it. Color me relieved and grateful.

[KG]

50. Hasn't happened yet.

[Cha]

109. No shite Sherlock.

[penndragon69]

51. Now This, is the Obama i voted for !

Warm up the veto pen and buy plenty of ink, it's going to get a
lot of use over the next 2 years. (I hope) !

[turbinetree]

53. LESS than

In less than 6 hours the right wingers have introduced legislation to attack SSDI, Keystone and other programs and Obama is going to be spending days in his last term refilling the ink well on veto's -------YES and BIG YES

[Number23]

56. Two questions: 1) how long has it been known or suspected that he would do this?

and 2) does that explain the eruption in shrieking over TPP for the last few days from certain quarters here even though nothing has been done whatsoever on that front in weeks?

[freshwest]

85. I posted a LOT on it in February 2013, if you're interested:

Bobby Kennedy, Jr. says Obama will kill Keystone XL Pipeline

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11027827

I'd been following it for a long time, plus posted pictures somewhere of when OFA attended the demonstrations in D.C.

That's in the BOG. though. I posted a small part elsewhere and was trolled for daring to say he didn't want it when he's given numerous speeches about it.

[herding cats]

94. For the record it was also reported back in November(ish) he was expected to veto it.

I don't have a link on hand, but I recall it being in the news very clearly at the time, those close to Obama said at the time if it did pass it would be vetoed.

Thanks for the link showing he's had this stance for much longer than that!

[freshwest]

95. Keystone was arranged in 2007 under Bush. They thought it was a sure thing. Then with under 2 months

Democratic majority* in total at the end of the Bush reign, Congress didn't allow it.

The very first CR Obama had to sign onto (after Koch was threatening dire consequences for not going with the Bush deal in 2010 and funded the astroturf Tea Party with the robust assistance of M$M) in 2011, had a front load request from new Speaker Boehner when Pelosi had to turn over the gavel.

Obama negotiated out of it.

Then came the Sequester in 2011. Then came another threat to the operation of the nation in 2012. And in 2013. And in 2014. In each case, they attacked social programs to do the most harm because of Obama stalling them in order to educate people.

He negotiated out of it each time.

He said then, as he always had, that it was up to us in all these things. Not because he needed us to abuse him to make him do the right thing. Because in a democracy the majority rules. And they show their power in communities and at the ballot box.

So the activism has finally gotten the attention of M$M and many have worked to expose the Koch brothers. They would make $100B the first year of the flow, and that would be tax free. The Koch brothers have a lot of friends in Canada, obviously. And in other nations, as well.

Now they are making their next attack on a theme that they shrieked and frothed at the mouth about when PBO relaxed some of the SSDI rules, even granting fast track compassionate certification and enabling those in their fifties to retire early because of the dual dilemma of injury and age in getting a job they could do to make it to the regular retirement age.

It is expected to be an very hostile next two years, and many votes will be down to the wire as the GOP seeks to do the bidding of their Koch masters and promote their Libertarian brand of life. It will require not only intelligent objections en masse conveyed to Democratic Republican elected officials. Be assured, M$M will support the end of Social Security with as much vigor as they applauded the Tea Party and the Iraq War.



*The fabled majority of 2 years I don't even bother to correct anymore, I've given up, in spite of numerous links posted by several DUers showing the person by person races and the issues, illnesses, contested elections and Joe Liebermann. Some of us followed the election numbers daily and remember those things, and they are documented in many places, not just at DU.

[herding cats]

99. You're an excellent fount of information!

Last edited Wed Jan 7, 2015, 01:04 AM - Edit history (1)

I do recall most of what you spoke of after you mentioned it. Not in the enviable detail you do, but I've never been as good as some at keeping up with everything at once. Local races and issues get in my way of national ones at times, I've always had that affliction.

My understanding of Keystone is that it won't be for the benefit of the citizens of the US no matter the sacrifice we're expected to make to install and house it. That simple understanding came from my readings of it in various places, including what the president has said about it himself. That I never heard of him saying anything positive about it lead me to believe he wasn't in favor of it to begin with, to the contrary it was from the WH and the president's own words that I learned there would be no monetary gain in the US from the line, and we'd be taking all the risks associated with it. It was from activist I learned it would be transporting an especially dirty type of oil which would then be refined, with all it's health and environmental ramifications from said refinement being dumped on our shores. Then it would be exported by private companies with mostly foreign interests to other countries. It's a no win deal all the way around unless you're fortunate enough to be involved in the deal personally, and unethical enough to not care what damage and harm you cause for your own personal gain.

I'm only mentioning all that because I know a lot of people like me, politically involved but still busy and not fully aware of all of the details that take place daily like we probably should be. Which is why I read here and other places. I know what I've read in media sources leaves me with an impression of what's taking place, but there are a lot of people here who are machines when it comes to collecting all the data and then being able to share it in a linear fashion. It really helps me to keep abreast of things I couldn't otherwise. Which makes me appreciate your detailed reply all the more. It was very helpful and I even looked up some of what you mentioned and had "aha!" moments. I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciated the time it took for you to give me such a thoughtful reply.

I do understand what you're saying about the "fabled majority," too. I recall that time well and I have a good understanding of how majorities work, and how electing some people helps to give us committee power with those majorities, even if we aren't exactly on the same page and they don't always vote with us when it's needed. I can also think of two major illnesses which took place during that period off the top of my head. Politics are extremely complicated, they always have been and they always will be.

[freshwest]

103. Appreciate that reply very much. Makes it all seem worthwhile for me. Thanks!

[Hekate]

98. Thak you for staying on top of it, feshwest

[freshwest]

104. Hey, glad to see you posting a little bit more, too, Hekate!

[Spazito]

57. I love this for so many reasons...

All the reasons already stated by the President, ie very few, if any, long term jobs, environmentally destructive dirty oil being transported for the benefit of Canada to the detriment of the US.

The bonus is that Harper may well have to eat his own arrogant words, he said ""my view is you don't take no for an answer."

"We haven't had that but if we were to get that, that won't be final. This won't be final until it's approved and we will keep pushing forward,"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/harper-won-t-take-no-for-an-answer-on-keystone-xl-1.1869439

With an election coming up in October, if not sooner, Harper having to eat his own arrogant words is icing on the cake!

[DonCoquixote]

63. Hey Hillary

I better hear what YOU plan to do, as I know your Hubby has already spoken out for it. Not being the backdoor way to get Keystone would define you as your own person, otherwise, you will simply be Bill's puppet for that third term he always wanted.

[vlyons]

65. Obama signalled as much in his end of 2014 speech

I think the Prez is going to teach the GOP a thing or 2 about obstruction.

[Botany]

66. Booyah ..... mad props to S. S.

[frylock]

67. knr

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. Congress can't "force approval" of this

and the pipeline's proponent wouldn't act on such an "approval".

I support Keystone XL 100%, but this political song and dance is stupid.

[Spazito]

73. Why would you support Keystone XL? n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

102. Because oil shipments dominating rail infrastructure isn't in anyone's interest.

US refineries, especially in the Gulf Coast region need heavy crude, not light condensates. Canada whether you like it or not is the most reliable source of that at present.

[Spazito]

114. Why do refineries in the Gulf Coast region need dirty oil?

And why should Americans risk their environment to feed dirty oil to refineries in the Gulf Coast so the product can be shipped elsewhere with little to no benefit for Americans?

Oil shipments shouldn't be dominating rail infrastructure, the oil companies should not have precedence over the shipments of goods ie wheat.

Why do you think Canada doesn't build more refineries to handle our own dirty oil?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

119. Because the communist peasants of Venezuela aren't very good at managing oil production

This "dirty oil" has been refined in the US for the last forty plus years. Nothing has changed other than Keystone XL being AstroTurfed. Houston isn't a very good export terminal for these purposes and only an inconsequentially small amount of Canadian sourced crude has been exported from the US. Enbridge's Northern Gateway and Kinder Morgan's second Trans Mountain pipeline will cover that fairly well.

Oil will always outbid every other rail shipper except for frozen and perishable food. It has been that way a very long time. During WW2 a pipeline was built from Casco Bay Maine to Montreal to get the oil off the rails for instance.

[Spazito]

120. Now that the Canadian government has put in place penalties for rail shippers...

re the transport of wheat, hopefully the oil companies' bids won't be so influential. Yes, Keystone XL IS being astroturfed by Transcanada Pipelines and their supporters but it is becoming more and more obvious and much less effective.

It seems Enbridge and Transcanada are running into difficulty with their wish to expand the pipelines east and west of the tar sand projects. Good.

As rail transport becomes more expensive for the oil companies to use and the price of oil plummets, the less dirty oil will be brought to the surface and that's a good thing.

The Canadian government would serve it's citizens better if it focused less on the energy sector for Canada's economic well being and focused more on diversifying the economy, support manufacturing, research and development of alternative energy projects, etc.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

121. The Canadian government has no sway over the US railroads

Similar pipelines carrying the same stuff have not faced the same opposition. And I'm sure had the tea party freaks not latched onto this one it wouldn't have either.

And yes, Canada would be far better served if it could focus all it's economic energy on condo flipping.

[Spazito]

122. The transport of tar sands oil starts in Alberta, Canada...

not in the US. Canada and the US has also put in regulations regarding the cars that transport oil, regulations that will increase the costs to the rail shippers who, no doubt, will pass that increased cost onto the oil companies.

Yes, condo flipping and oil is all there is, got it. Geez.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

123. Most of the US bound oil from the tar sands never touches a tanker car in Canada

Volume shipped by rail would have to quadrupole just to match the capacity Keystone XL alone would carry.

The DOT-111 issue is all the more reason to build pipelines. There is little reason for unrefined product to be transported by rail. It's only necessitated by the pipeline bottlenecks.

[Spazito]

124. "what Keystone XL alone would carry"...

well, it looks like that might not come to fruition any time soon if at all. Pipeline bottlenecks will continue, it seems, so rail transport with increased costs are current.

It is clear you fully support the continuation of dirty oil projects, the promulgation of pipelines by companies with horrid environmental records. I don't. I think our discussion has reached an impasse.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

125. I support oil and gas production in the US and Canada 100%

If the US and Canada can make OPEC and Putinistan irrelevant that is just great.

[Spazito]

126. Moving away from oil and gas to alternatives would make them even more irrelevant...

and without endangering cities like Lac-Megantic, environmental disasters like the Deep Water spill and Enbridge's pipeline leak in Michigan.

We need to wean ourselves off of oil and gas and look toward alternatives. Making it more difficult to transport them would hasten the exploration of alternative energy, imo.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

127. That's a great long-term strategy,

But we have a 150 years worth of oil and gas based infrastructure that needs to evolve.

Petroleum consumption is a demand-side issue. Nobody living today is going to live long enough to see a shortage of it.

[Spazito]

128. We shall see n/t

[Rex]

71. I read months ago he was not going to go along with this deal.

Good to see him keeping to his promise!

[ybbor]

72. Woohoo!

[Ramses]

75. Very Good!

Glad to hear. THIS is the President Obama I like to see. Hope we see it much more often.

[freshwest]

76. NO SURPRISE!

Take THAT, GOP Koch Party!

I always knew he would.

ALWAYS.

[lovemydog]

86. Like

[Hekate]

91. No surprise to those of us paying attention to the nuances of his statements. As to why he didn't...

..say this before now, I can think of two reasons: first, he really was studying it, and second, though he might have made up his mind quite awhile ago, he didn't have time for the GOP/media shitstorm that would have ensued.

[grahamhgreen]

92. Kudos!

[1step]

96. Let's Cool Our Jets a Bit

Snippet from WaPo:

Earnest couched the administration’s opposition to the project — which would transport heavy crude oil extracted in Hardisty, Alberta, to refineries on the U.S. Gulf Coast — in the narrowest possible terms, saying it was a matter of allowing the federal review process to take its course.

This isn't quite over yet.

[nikto]

97. Good.

[BrotherIvan]

100. Good for you Mr. President!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cha]

105. White House: Obama Won’t Sign Keystone XL Pipeline Bill

WooooHOOOOO!

Mahalo JaneyVee!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

106. It's very good news, Cha.

[Cha]

107. I was so excited I forgot my link, CTD..

Blame it on that!

National Journal ✔ @nationaljournal
Follow
Josh Earnest on Keystone: "I can confirm that the president would not sign this bill" http://trib.al/HVgBirW
8:37 AM - 6 Jan 2015 21 Retweets 5 favorites

http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/white-house-obama-won-t-sign-kxl-bill-20150106

[defacto7]

111. Yes Yes YES!

That's what I want to hear...

[raouldukelives]

115. Awesome news. I wonder how much oil prices had to do with this decision?

Hopefully nothing.

[Ferd Berfel]

116. I hope he does, We'll see

It is complete insanity to allow Keystone XL. I keep hearing about ‘Climate Change’ as the reason to not build this suicide machine. This is important for the long term (maybe not so long term) however, there are very immediate, and ‘hand-to-mouth’ reasons, for not allowing this stupidity. These are centered around Fresh Water. Specifically the Ogallala Aquifer

Fresh Water is a requirement for survival,
Canadian Oil is not a requirement for survival.
Profits of Corporations and Billionaires are not a requirement for survival.
A few temporary jobs and 35 permanent jobs is not a requirement either – sorry to the 35

ALL Pipelines leak.

The Ogallala Aquifer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer
> Crosses 8 states
> IS the Fresh Water supply for 82% of the 2.3 Million people in the area
> 27 percent of the irrigated land in the United States overlies and uses the aquifer
> Is about 30 percent of the ground water used for irrigation in the United States
> It would take hundreds to thousands of years of rainfall to replace the groundwater in the depleted aquifer. Certain zones of
the aquifer are now empty; these areas will take over 6,000 years to replenish naturally through rainfall.

Once this aquifer is poisoned
> 30% of the crop production of the United States will end – permanently.
> Millions of people will be forced to abandon these areas and relocate.

There are probably many additional points to be made here, but the ones listed should be more than enough to make any rational person just a bit nervous. It scares the shit out of me.

[Orsino]

117. President Obama "would veto" what legislation?

The pipeline itself? Or fast-tracking?

I assumed he would at least wait for the State report before caving or vetoing even that. Is there more detail to this rumor?

[rhett o rick]

118. Great news. Thank you Mr. President and thanks to those on the left that have kept

up the challenge to the building of the Koch (XL) pipeline.