White hip hop artist under fire

[termroffor]

Privileged white people should not "steal hip hop," said African American rapper Azealia Banks regarding Iggy Azalea, a white rapper.
Do you guys think it is acceptable for white people to be hip hop artists?



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11308082/Azealia-Banks-Vs-Iggy-Azalea-White-people-shouldnt-steal-hip-hop.html

[Nevernose]

1. It's not her being a rapper that bothers people

It's her mimicry of Southern black women. Many people view it in the same way they would blackface.

[termroffor]

2. It is hard to tell what bothers "people"

One would not know when a woman is jealous of another woman's beauty and/or success, for example.

Plus not all "people" in any circumstance are bothered by the same thing. I think the phrase "speak for yourself" is in order here.

[arcane1]

5. What's your take on it?

[bhikkhu]

122. My take is that there is a difference between mimicry and celebration

all culture is human culture, and we are all allowed to take part and enjoy any part of it. If you begin from a standpoint that people are basically good and equal, honest and honorable, then its hard to go wrong from there. The opposite holds true as well.

[msongs]

3. do you think it is acceptable for black people to be pop/country/classical/polka artists?

[termroffor]

4. Duh

Why would it be unacceptable? Of course it is acceptable.

I think you thougt that was a trick question, for some strange reason.

[Gravitycollapse]

18. Hierarchies of privilege are asymmetrical.

Last edited Thu Dec 25, 2014, 01:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Cultural appropriation is only accessible to privileged groups and the appropriation always travels down in the hierarchy.

Movements up in the hierarchy would be assimilationist. Assimilation and appropriation are not the same.

Pop, country and classical music, especially the two former, are receptacles for dominant ideology. You do not appropriate dominant ideology, you assimilate into it.

[Kurska]

64. Everytime I hear

"We need different rules for different races, otherwise we're racist" It makes me want to puke.

Thats what these long winded explanations ultimately come down to. Every-single-time.

Heres a better idea, the type of art or performance someone can take part in should not be limited in any way by their race .

Cultural appropriation is bull. Different cultures and societies have been exchanging art-forms and ideas for many times longer than America has existed. When two groups of peoples of different races existed in the same society this effect was even more profound. Apparently all along we were performing some great cultural sin by being like, talking like and creating like our neighbors. If the only people allowed to take part in a cultural activity were the originators the only people allowed to write tragic plays should be the greeks.

Give me a break.

[Odin2005]

89. That some progressives are pushing segregationist ideas makes me sick.

That is what this BS is, segregationism.

[shaayecanaan]

146. Imagine the history of popular music without "appropriation"

Black artists in the late nineteenth century "appropriated" white gospel music, Native American drum music and mixed it with traditional African music to form blues music. This was appropriated by whites who made big-band music, and counter-appropriated back by black musicians who formed bebop and jazz.

Blues music was then appropriated by white musicians in the UK and the US who formed blues-rock and heavy metal, and later by white Britons who appropriated ska, bebop and rocksteady influences to create punk.

I can't imagine a single music style that would be devoid of appropriation, but I imagine that if it did exist it would be quite dull.

[gollygee]

173. No, it isn't about segregation. It's about respect. n/t

[Odin2005]

300. Saying that cultures should not borrow from each other is segregationist.

It is the same paternalistic "noble savage" impulse that sees anything "non-white" as an anthropological museum piece. One can criticize Iggy Azalea for being a tasteless jerk aping racist stereotypes without resorting to this "whites copying from African-American culture is racist" BS.

[gollygee]

304. There's another thread about the difference between cultural appropriation

and cultural exchange. The issue isn't when people respectfully exchange, the issue is cultural appropriation, which looks similar but does not incude respect for the culture being borrowed from.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

379. Segregation? I do not think that word means what you think it means

Saying that one group can only produce certain types of music while another cant is pretty much the definition of segregation.

[gollygee]

381. If you'd read any of the discussion so far

you'd know that no one is saying that. That is a strawman. There is a whole thread about cultural exchange vs. cultural appropriation. Exchange is doing it with respect, appropriation is doing it in the way Iggy Azalea does - by faking a cartoonish stereotype of how she thinks an African American southern woman speaks.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

382. Welcome to the Internet.

Lol. Do you think the leader of North Korea likes the Internet? Do you think anyone but 2% of the population likes Honey Boo Boo? Luckily there is room on the Internet for everyone and it doesn't have to go through any censors. All I can say is if you don't like what's on, change the channel. They can't even stop child porn and your worried about some ditsy blonde singing music in a way you don't like? Aren't there more important issues to worry about? Like maybe wars and economic collapse? Let's get our priorities straight.

[gollygee]

383. Welcome to multitasking

Cultural appropriation is a form of racism, and racism is worthy of attention.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

384. Nice fuzzy concepts there...

So in that simple little statement of yours is about 350 million interpretations. Good luck storming the castle!

[gollygee]

388. Fuzzy to you

Some people do keep their minds open enough to learn. But some prefer to dismiss.

[BainsBane]

259. It isn't segregation

It's a recognition of the nature of power and oppression in American society. To deny that is like pretending a poor child has the same opportunities as a member of the 1 percent, and to deny there exists difference based on class. Would you do that? If not, why is it okay to pretend black and white people occupy the same social status in America?

As for the OP, I suspect much of the problem is Azalea's lack of talent. Eminem is a well-respected white rapper. He had to earn that respect through his craft.

[Odin2005]

301. One can criticize Iggy Azalea for being a tasteless jerk aping racist stereotypes...

...without resorting to this "whites copying from African-American culture is racist" BS.

[bravenak]

311. Minstrel shows.

This is an updated version.

[Odin2005]

312. That I agree with.

[Warren DeMontague]

283. And all art is a conversation. None of it happens in a vacuum.

Immature artists borrow, mature artists steal...I am "influenced" but you "appropriate", etc.

[Kurska]

296. +1 eom

[shaayecanaan]

77. What about a black person singing Japanese folk music?

Is that up the hierarchy, down, or sideways?

(There are a couple, as it happens:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jero)

What about the gay adoption of disco music in the seventies (a style of music that was theretofore associated with black culture)?

[Generic Other]

309. The Japanese don't think Westerners can write haiku

because they don't grok it in their soul.

I think we can all learn new stuff from each other.

[NaturalHigh]

136. Meh...even IF that's true...

all of that is frankly irrelevant. The only pertinent issue is whether people of any race have the right to express themselves through their chosen artistic mediums, in this case hip-hop music. The obvious answer is yes.

It makes absolutely no difference to me if this young lady chooses to express herself through hip-hop or acid rock. It shouldn't make any difference to anyone else, either.

Azealia Banks made a real ass out of herself.

[Shivering Jemmy]

285. sez you

Your opinion means no more to me than any other.

[Gravitycollapse]

286. It's a good thing I have a strong historico-theoretical basis for my opinion.

[pipi_k]

109. I'm sorry but...

I'm laughing like hell in my head as I imagine someone like Aretha Franklin or James Brown being a Polka artist

hahahahaha!!!!

[Oilwellian]

149. Hell yes I can!

LOL

[jmowreader]

121. Charley Pride proves it's acceptable for black people to be country artists

And it's certainly acceptable for black people to be pop artists, as there are quite a few - Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Beyonce and Donna Summer come to this old white rock fan's mind quickly.

Polka? Gee, I don't know...black people can play all the polka they want, but they don't want to play any.

Here's the problem: If I were to put an Adele, Ariana Grande or Iggy Azalea song on the kerosene record player and not show you the album cover, you'd swear they were black women. Which they are not.

[FrodosPet]

405. Mexicans, on the other hand, have assimilated polka in the form of Norteño

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norte%C3%B1o_(music)

[Ken Burch]

152. Pop and country derive from black music. So yeah, it's cool.

[ancianita]

210. Country derives from Appalachian folk music. Which is European in origin.

"...The origins of country music are the folk music of mostly white, working-class Americans, who blended popular songs, Irish and Celtic fiddle tunes, traditional ballads, and cowboy songs, and various musical traditions from European immigrant communities. In 2009 country music was the most listened to rush hour radio genre during the evening commute, and second most popular in the morning commute in the United States.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_music

[Go Vols]

214. +1

[Ken Burch]

348. It was that music meets black blues, though.

What made it "country" as we know it was white singers using the 12-bar blues structure, which they'd learned hearing black people in places like the California transit camps-the Depression through the races together and music broke down at least some barriers on a temporary basis. It's harder to hate people when you're swapping songs with 'em.

No disrespect to Appalachian white folks(some of whom were my ancestors)intended.

[ancianita]

349. Yep. A cool thing about country is that it has evolved in its give and take with other musical forms

Though I can't stand country, I can make an occasional visit to its world just to check in on what other musical forms it's blending with lately. I wish I could put it into my otherwise wide range of musical interest.

[marble falls]

375. Appropriation or one of the best C&R singers,ever?

://

One of the best ever. Ever!

[denbot]

6. Ice, ice, Baby..

Vanilla Ice sucked, so in that case it was wrong, but only because he sucked. My daughter likes a white rapper from I believe, Cleavland OH, that calls himself Machine Gun Kelly.

I'm guessing he doesn't suck so for no other reason then that, it's acceptable.

[joeglow3]

7. What a racist pile of crap

[_Blue_]

8. Disgusting article.

What's wrong with allowing an artist to practice their art? This is akin to trying to limit classical music to whites only. WRONG.

[Skittles]

151. THANK YOU

and if you don't like it / consider it crap don't see it or buy it

OMG the shyte being peddled lately

[gollygee]

9. She is Australian and changes her vocal style to sound like she's African American

it's akin to performing in blackface. It isn't about "stealing hiphop." (You seem fond of "quotation marks.&quot

[Nye Bevan]

10. To be fair, the OP (unlike you) only used quotation marks when quoting someone.

Last edited Thu Dec 25, 2014, 01:23 AM - Edit history (1)

And to me, a white person singing hiphop is just as acceptable as a black person playing Beethoven. In other words, who cares?

[gollygee]

14. Again, it is about her changing her style of speech to mimic African Americans

That's the main complaint - that she does not naturally speak like that, but she puts it on for the performance.

[benz380]

24. Kinda like Hillary with her I ain't no ways tired speech? Nt

[zappaman]

34. We one to DU!

[NobodyHere]

51. Since when do black women

have a monopoly on a speech style?

[sendero]

74. The way Charlie Pride...

... tried to sound like a white southern man?

Really, this dog won't hunt. Anyone who finds her work not valid or not interesting (and I'm sure I would not) should not listen to her.

[gollygee]

76. Cultural appropriation is when dominant groups take over something from an oppressed group

when someone from an oppressed group takes on something from the dominant group, that's trying to fit into dominant society and escape oppression.



http://racerelations.about.com/od/diversitymatters/fl/What-Is-Cultural-Appropriation-and-Why-Is-It-Wrong.htm

[sendero]

80. Cultural appropriation....

.... is a made-up term with no particular validity. You can't "steal" culture, period. I can bathe myself in matzo ball soup, there is nothing morally, ethically or any other lly wrong with it.

[gollygee]

171. That isn't the same

Oppressed groups are forced to assimilate to at least some extent. The dominant culture expects it. That isn't the same as a dominant culture picking up bits of culture from an oppressed group that make them feel good.

[marble falls]

376. Beg pardon? I don't think you mean he was well spoken for a person of color. Thats the way he talked

He was a favorite of mine growing up and thats the way he spoke every interview i ever saw. I liked him because he was genuine and not a bit rhinestone cowboy. He and his band always looked like the tour bus was idling in the parking lot ready to hit the road.

[arcane1]

37. My parents like a country music singer from (I think) Australia who fakes his southern accent.

I may have his origin wrong, but he's not southern.

For what it's worth. I don't like either style of music so I don't care too much either.

[Ken Burch]

372. Keith Urban, perhaps? n/t.

[Reter]

11. I have a white friend who talks like he's black

I can tell you that 90% of his friends are black, and he grew up in a black neighborhood. I assure you he's not a racist, as he less comfortable around white people. He talks the way his friends talked when he was growing up. Is he akin to performing in blackface too in your opinion?

[gollygee]

12. Did you hear hte part about her being Australian?

This is not how she normally or naturally speaks. She puts it on for the performance, like blackface.

[branford]

22. There are black people in Australia . . . nt

[JI7]

33. black people in australia are not african americans unless they are visiting or expats

[Number23]

47. I.... just. Wow

There are black people in Australia

[JustAnotherGen]

156. I'm stuck on

"talks like he's black"

This thread is going nowhere.

They call Banks "angry" yet give this fake twerking phoney baloney "product" a free pass. She's a "product" no different than Britney Spears.

When she can pick a guitar like Taylor Swift or Loretta Lynn - or READ musice like Mrs. Carter - or hit notes like Adele, Sade, Whitney Houston, Faith Hill, shit . . . Like Sheena Easton - remember her? Get back to me folks.

She will go the way of that Gaga woman only she can't sing - so she won't be doing duets as a hail Mary with Tony Bennett.

[Number23]

229. "This thread is going nowhere" Don't ALL race threads on this clueless web site go nowhere? Isn't

that the damn point for a whooooole bunch of people here???

But we're all supposed to pretend that this white Australian woman imitating and pantomiming a culture she cares so little about that she has been caught REPEATEDLY tweeting racist BS is just "flattering" black people!! Because you know cultural appropriation without having the slightest clue is the sincerest form of flattery now, so sayeth white people and damn don't they know everything??!

They call Banks "angry" yet give this fake twerking phoney baloney "product" a free pass. She's a "product" no different than Britney Spears.

Britney was another one "discovered" by black artists (Full Force, in Britney's case), just like Iggy and Bieber. Those guys know that putting a white face on the most bland, watered down black pop music is a sure fire way to guarantee success. And did you see that Iggy went after Miley for "stealing" twerking from her???! Could this woman be any more freaking clueless?? And the folks supporting her and criticizing authors, artists and people who have LEGITIMATE reasons for being disgusted with what she's doing are doing nothing but enablers. This is NOT flattery. This is CARICATURE and nothing else.

[gollygee]

238. I kind of think the flattery thing

is a byproduct of white supremacy and entitlement. Like, wouldn't anyone be flattered at receiving our attention and having us copy them in some way? We're saying African Americans did something worthy of us copying, and that HAS to be flattering. We're awesome like that. (/sarcasm obviously)

[Number23]

240. I kind of think that you are absolutely right.

Like, wouldn't anyone be flattered at receiving our attention and having us copy them in some way?

I think you have really touched on something right here. Which certainly does explain the really baffling tone deafness of "but we're FLATTERING you!" when asked to stop.

[bravenak]

53. And they Talk like they're from Alabama?

Bullcrap. They talk like they're from Australia. Because they are.
Some people enjoy being as racially insensitive as possible. You be acting brand new. Stale, tho. Stale as ....

[gollygee]

69. I assume you saw her photo in the post, and Aboriginal Australians don't

speak like African Americans.

[treestar]

114. An entirely different race

The indigenous people of Australia are a race distinguished from white, black and Asian equally.

[a la izquierda]

297. Might be the main at ignorant thing...

I've seen on DU in awhile. Do you mean aboriginal peoples?

[Marr]

23. People do that with reggae all the time.

Including blacks from the United States. Always thought it was dumb, but I don't see how it's akin to performing in blackface.

[shaayecanaan]

79. They made a cartoon of it

Black Britons faking reggae accents, I mean:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastamouse#Critical_reception

[joeglow3]

57. How do you feel about actors faking accents?

Is do you consider THAT form to be art?

[gollygee]

68. She isn't an actor n/t

[joeglow3]

94. No shit. How do you decide in which artistic medium it is okay?

[XemaSab]

354. She's an entertainer. Her job is to be entertaining.

And judging by this thread, she's doing a damn fine job of it.

[gollygee]

389. When someone is acting and playing a part of someone who has an accent

then it's a part of their job to pretend to have that accent, though IMO an African American character should be played by an African American actor rather than a white actor in blackface. So this is actually a good example.

[joeglow3]

400. Oh, does she put on blackface?

I didn't know that.

[gollygee]

402. She puts on a cartoonish stereotyped version of African American speech

which is similar to blackface.

[NaturalHigh]

403. I think the real issue...

is that she's hot, successful, and probably makes a lot of money. That really brings out the rage. In reality, it has very little to do with "cultural appropriation."

[gollygee]

404. I'm sure you do think that. n/t

[joeglow3]

408. What does she do that is cartoonish?

I have never heard of her until this thread.

[gollygee]

409. She does not use her natural style of speech. Instead, she fakes

what she thinks African Americans sound like. She is from Australia and sounds Australian when she speaks.

[joeglow3]

412. That is NOT cartoonish

People fake accents when performing all the time in all sorts of mediums.

[gollygee]

414. It is a cartoonish version of that accent

and no, people don't usually fake accents when speaking, and "rap" means "speak." It's a spoken medium, and it's not acting, where you are playing a character. She uses her own name.

[joeglow3]

415. What a pile of bull shit

Larry the cable guy speaks and fakes his accent. People fake accents in movies. Entertainment is entertainment. You are trying to pull shit out of your ass to justify a dislike for this lady. Only you know the real reason, since you will only provide bull shit here.

[gollygee]

416. I don't have a personal dislike for her

I don't know that much about her except that she participates in cultural appropriation.

Larry the Cable Guy is an actor portraying a character. She is not an actor, she is not in a movie or show or on TV portraying a character, unless she's portraying an African American character, which is still cultural appopriation.

[joeglow3]

417. Larry the Cable Guy is on a stage, just as this singer

[gollygee]

418. He doesn't appropriate a stereotyped version of a speaking style of a person of color

It is a vocal version of wearing blackface. It is not like Larry the Cable Guy faking a different white American accent and stereotyping a group of people who have faced the discrimination African Americans have.

[joeglow3]

419. We are going in circles

My opinion is people are pissed at a white woman succeeding in a field that has historically been dominated by black people. You don't complain about the millions of white people spending money on the albums or concerts. But, if a white person enjoys the music and tries to perform it, that is off limits. I agree, as said above, it comes down to intent. If it can be shown that her intent is to mock black people, I will be right there blasting here.

But the notion that only black people can rap in a certain accent because of slavery in their past is racist, divisive and based in no sound logic.

[gollygee]

420. It's very sound logic.

I am not pissed, I am recognizing cultural appropriation where I see it.

It's very sound logic but it assumes you have some understanding about the history of racism in this country.

[joeglow3]

421. I get lost

It is assimilation when blacks "act white". Is assimilation a good or bad thing?

It is appropriation when whites "act black". Is that a good or bad thing?

[gollygee]

422. Assimilation is a survival skill

It's too bad that our racist society forces people to assimilate in order to get jobs and lessen the discrimination they face. It is not something to blame someone for. It's necessary for survival in the US.

Appropriation is bad, but there can be a respectful cultural exchange. Not all borrowing of culture is bad but it has to be done respectfully and carefully, and people should look to the people whose culture they're borrowing to see if they're doing it respectfully.

[joeglow3]

423. I think it is bad that you see barriers people shouldn't cross

Seems the antithesis of what many have fought for.

[gollygee]

424. I understand that's what you see

but I don't think you understand the underlying issues of racism and related US history.

[NaturalHigh]

425. None of which have anything to do with...

a young Australian woman using a fake accent to become a successful hip-hop artist. From what I've read over the past few days, she has worked her ass off to get where she is, and she has every right to use whatever skills she has.

[gollygee]

426. Yes, they have a lot to do with it

and poorly faking a stereotyped version of an accent isn't a skill, any more than wearing blackface is. You not seeing the relationship between what she's doing and racism doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[NaturalHigh]

427. Apparently "poorly faking a stereotyped version of an accent"...

is a skill that she has used to sell her music, and it has served her well. That's the part that gets under the skin of her critics. If she had failed at her chosen profession, nobody would have brewed up this controversy. Azalea Banks wouldn't have had a target.

Ironically all these attacks have only increased Iggy Azalea's visibility. She will likely make money off this, which is poetic justice in my opinion.

[gollygee]

434. It's like a minstrel show

Again, you have to completely disregard and dismiss the history of racism in this country, and the history of racism in entertainment, to not see the cultural appropriation here. In minstrel shows, white people would do stereotyped versions of African American music with stereotyped cartoonish versions of African American speech styles. The only difference is that they did it in blackface.

It was also a skill to perform minstrel shows, but they were still inappropriate and racist.

[Violet_Crumble]

429. If she has any skills, I wish she'd start using them...

Because there's no skill involved in doing a piss poor mimicking of another accent. There's also no skill involved in offending not only African Americans with her clumsy and tone death dismissive comments on race, but also offending indigenous Australians, Australians in general (because she sucks so much there's none of the parochial pride that happens when Australians become successful in the US), insulted Australian hip-hop, had a swipe at Lorde for supposedly not being high enough calibre to do a Nirvana cover, and the list of abject stupid and nasty goes on and on.

There's something off about an Australian faking a US accent to do hip hop. Maybe it's because it gives the impression there's something to be ashamed of with our own accent, or maybe because Australian rappers grew out of that mimicking stage back in the 90's when it was done because the hip hop thing here was immature. Back then, rappers weren't trying to be racist, and I doubt Iggy Azalea is either. She wanted to do whatever it took to make a shitload of money. My problem with it is the defensive and tone deaf way she's reacted to American hip hop artists when they try to explain the cultural connection between hip hop and African American culture.

She also said in an article that she's annoyed by Americans who hear her accent and mimic an Australian accent back at her.

“Immediately talking to me in an Australian accent when I meet you is so offensive,”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tanyachen/iggy-azalea-things-australians-are-tired-of-hearing#.plpLgGL51

Tough shit, Iggy. If it's good enough for her to mimic accents, she can just suck it up when others do it to hers...

[NaturalHigh]

430. I didn't realize you were Australian.

I'm sure you know more about her than I do since I never heard of her until this thread brewed up last week. Yeah, from that link it does seem like she's somewhat full of herself, but then, I would venture to say that most celebrities are.

[Violet_Crumble]

431. I only became of her a few weeks ago...

I was bored and watching some US music awards show and was all 'Yay!' when Lorde was on coz she's incredibly talented and a Kiwi, and then Iggy was on and I was 'WTF is this crap??' My daughter who's 23 didn't know much about her either apart from telling me Iggy's our version of Justin Bieber. Iggy appears to be far more popular in the US than she is here, where people see her as a bit of a joke.

Happy new year!

[NaturalHigh]

432. Happy New Year to you too.

[yuiyoshida]

199. You mean like...

or this guy from Gilligan's Island?

[joeglow3]

205. Is it hard being that obtuse?

Sure, you can pick out people perpetuating stereotypes and pretend like that covers everything, but the vast majority know that is a loser argument.

[yuiyoshida]

207. Whateva dude...

Loser argument? hardly..

[joeglow3]

218. Do you also blast the new cast of Annie?

The iconic Annie is, after all, a white red head.

[gollygee]

220. Annie is a fictional character

and fictional characters have been recast in various ways for ages and ages.

One part of white privilege is having so many "iconic characters" be either white, or racist stereotypes if not white.

[joeglow3]

231. As is the fictional character this artist is playing on stage.

Thanks for proving my point.

[gollygee]

233. You are intentionally ignoring the issue

Most fictional characters who are not racist stereotypes that were created before pretty recently are white. That is a part of white privilege - that all those good parts are available for white people, and that white people get to see people who look like themselves represented onstage and in film so often. It is not parallel.

[Everything Sucks]

287. Which artist? Iggy Azalea?

She's playing a fictional character?

[joeglow3]

292. You think Madonna is the person she portrays on stage .

Lady gaga? Weird al yankvick? Katy perry?

[yuiyoshida]

290. How can I blast something I have never seen ...

..whose being Obtuse now?

[joeglow3]

293. Why not?

This topic is about blasting solely based on race?

[yuiyoshida]

329. Racism sucks...

Okay? That's the freaking point.

[joeglow3]

332. I agree. It is very racist to claim someone can't sing a certain way because they are white

[yuiyoshida]

333. Someone made the important point...

Its all about respect, for a persons culture. If someone goes about saying stuff like "ching chong, ching chong, ching chong" that is someone mocking a person of Asian decent. Its just as racist as when the Spanish Olympic team posted a photo of the team pulling their eyes back... like these idiots.

[joeglow3]

334. I agree it is about intent.

[PragmaticLiberal]

92. Actually, she changed her vocal style to sound like a southern rapper...not AA per se.

[bhikkhu]

123. So should everyone be eternally wedded to the stereotypes we hold?

Is an African American who doesn't conform to our stereotypes of speech (the president and the first lady, for instance), guilty of mockery?

Does every Australian really speak like Crocodile Dundee? I haven't been there, so I can't say for sure, but I suspect the whole argument of the OP only "makes sense" because of certain narrow-minded habits of thought.

[gollygee]

176. Cultural appropriation goes one way

People in oppressed groups are forced to assimilate to dominant culture or they have a hard time doing things like getting jobs, or certainly becoming president. That isn't cultural appropriation - it's survival in a culture where you are a member of an oppressed group.

Australians all have Australian accents. They aren't all as broad as Crocodile Dundee's. None naturally speak in southern African American accents.

[_Blue_]

239. Isn't the AA culture the dominant force of hip-hop?

Perhaps Iggy only enjoys success because she sounds southern / AA on her records, which proves to be a desirable trait. Fancy that..

I'm all for artists expressing themselves, regardless of their skin color and chosen genre.

[gollygee]

241. Again, that is the whole point of how it's cultural appropriation

She can pick and choose a piece or two of AA culture to dab on for marketability, but keep the rest of herself so she fits the racist narrow standard of beauty. African Americans can't do that. And something that is considered cute or trendy or edgy when a white person picks it and uses it like this is sometimes something African Americans specifically get oppressed over. But she gets to have the sound people want, which is an African American sound, but people get to look at a white girl when they listen to it. That's the whole point. It edges out African Americans because they don't get to look white when they're singing. Someone took their sound but has the privilege to replace their look.

[_Blue_]

243. I would rather look at Rihanna or Beyoncé than Iggy. Not so much with Nicki Minaj..

[gollygee]

244. This is about cultural trends, not your personal tastes. n/t

[_Blue_]

245. I think the cultural trend is that hip hop is AA dominated

As it should be. That doesn't mean there is no room for white artists in the hip hop genre.

[gollygee]

246. You don't hear the same stuff about Eminem

because he doesn't push it as far - he doesn't change his natural style of speech. Cultural appropriation is a big thing and what seems to push this is 1) her previous disrespectful tweets about African Americans and 2) her mimicry of African American speech. If she were respectful to the people whose cultural trend she's borrowing and didn't mimic them, there wouldn't be the same flak.

[_Blue_]

247. Iggy's sound and style is popular. She shouldn't be punished for artistic success.

Her disrespectful tweets are another matter and deserving of all the negativity they receive.

[gollygee]

249. She isn't being punished for artistic success

she's being criticized for cultural appropriation.

[_Blue_]

250. There's nothing wrong with utilizing elements of the southern hip hop style.

She should be more respectful and acknowledge the style's roots but she shouldn't be scorned for her sound.

[gollygee]

251. She is being scorned for mimicing someone else's sound.

If it were her sound, she wouldn't receive the criticism.

[EX500rider]

267. "he doesn't change his natural style of speech."

Neither does she. She's sounds Australian in interviews, she only sings like that.
Just like the Beatles sound very American in many of their songs but sound English in interviews.

[gollygee]

269. "only sings like that"

That is what we're talking about.

[XemaSab]

355. You don't hear the same stuff about Eminem

because this is as much about sexism and policing of women as it is about cultural appropriation.

[gollygee]

365. Probably true.

I imagine women get this worse than men.

[Everything Sucks]

371. Oh, please.

Macklemore has also been accused of cultural appropriation. Many (a majority?) of these accusations are coming from women.

[EX500rider]

265. "I would rather look at Rihanna or Beyoncé than Iggy."

Iggy's pretty cute too though.. (I think)

[bravenak]

316. More than 'pretty cute'.

She would make a killing in her own accent. Boocoo dollaz!

[Ken Burch]

350. Mick Jagger and Mick Hucknall are English, John Fogerty is American, and they do the same thing.

So did the Righteous Brothers.

Are or were they performing in blackface, too?

Or is it only an issue with Australians?

What if you are a white singer and you do that because you just think you sound more emotionally truthful than you singing in a "white" voice("white" singing voices" usually being less passionate, less open, and less connected to the music than what we think of as a "black" voice...with the sole exceptions, IMHO, of Sinead O'Connor and Johnny Cash)? Are you obligated to find a drearier, blander way to sing just to avoid being called a racist?

[gollygee]

351. I'm talking about the speech style when she raps

not a singing style. She's pretending to have a speech style she doesnt.

[unblock]

353. i wouldn't call it a "speech" style. it's music.

rap is musical. it may sound closer to speech than other forms of singing, but it's still singing.

[gollygee]

367. No it isn't singing

It's called rapping because it's a style of speech. "Rap" means speak.

[JaneyVee]

13. This is part of a deeper story for Azealia Banks.

She did a radio interview where she cried and made extremely valid points about race and hiphop. She's not against white people rapping, she's against the white exploitation and colonization of a black art form done by the industry.

[BlueJazz]

35. I would have told her: Welcome to the club, plus the exploitation and the people that have been..

...cheating, lying and stealing Musician's Art, Money and anything else, has been going on long before you were born and honey, they don't care what color you are...you'll screw you.

Added: I've seen bands with top hits get chicken feed after the ahh...."expences".

[AngryAmish]

65. Obviously if one cries one is always sincere and right

[JaneyVee]

142. I think you should watch the video before commenting.

[aikoaiko]

327. I agree her tears are real.

But she is a hot mess in the video.

RE: her comments on IGGY (tried to get the words right)

AZ: like I gotta be the bitter black bitch because I have something to say about it.

Interviewer: Because you have feelings

AX: And there you have fucking coon head ice TI you got TI here trying to promote this white bitch. They got your wife on VH1 why do you have your wife on VH1 and that bitch can't fuckin read. You understand? You got your priorities fucked up.

interviewer: And that how you really feel?

AZ: That's fucked up. That's how I really fucking feel about you. You're a fucking shoe shining coon.

Here is the ironic part when the interviewer says she should channel the energy into his music.

AZ: Im a creative individual and I have the license to think and say and do whatever the fuck I feel

Apparently she doesn't think TI and Iggy have the same license.

Azeila Banks is smart and talented. Her feelings are real but she knows this feud is good her career. Its really similar to nas v jay z.

[Calista241]

410. she only gets emotional while talking about both her songs and slave reparations.

She is a hot mess.

[bobclark86]

104. So, does she protest against Eminem? n/t

[Dr. Strange]

150. Oh, does she ever.

Azealia Banks: Eminem Should 'Suck On His Sisters Tiddies'

[PragmaticLiberal]

175. Yep. She has.

Azealia Banks has beef with many artists.

And interestingly enough, they all (for the most part) are significantly more successful than she is.

Infer what you will....

[aikoaiko]

15. Hip hop loves rapper feuds.

Iffy is alright.

[wyldwolf]

16. All this has happened before and will happen again

1988 - Dionne Warwick caused a brouhaha when she criticized George Michael for winning an American Music Award in the R&B category.

[dawg]

340. So say we all.

[uponit7771]

17. PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE, THIS IS NOT WHAT SHE SAID

[LittleBlue]

19. Cultural appropriation is an invalid concept

No one ethnicity owns their music or culture. Or their accent, for that matter.

[wyldwolf]

20. yeah, here's an example - not quite the same thing...

American kids faking British accents when they play Punk rock.

[arcane1]

42. Now that I think about it, I don't see African Americans playing banjo very often either.

I forgot about that cultural appropriation. Hell, it's 99% complete!

[ProfessorGAC]

177. Or, The Other Way

Remember Eric Burdon? He was clearly trying to sound like an old blues dude when he was but 21 years old.

And to your point, Billy Joe from Green Day. The guys from the Pacific Northwest and that's clearly a british accent.

[Gravitycollapse]

21. Ahistorical reductionism is not a valid intellectual position. Try again.

[branford]

25. Who exactly appointed you the judge of what is or is not a "valid intellectual position"

concerning "cultural appropriation" or anything else?

I ready your post # 3. You appear to have very strong views on the subject. However, I have no doubt that even among those who professionally study the phenomena, in what I imagine would be a fairly cloistered academic environment, that your position is anywhere near universal.

[Gravitycollapse]

44. My position is a universal in my academic concentration.

And the concept of cultural appropriation being distinct from cultural assimilation is in essence a universal among every social science and humanities program I've ever encountered. The extent of the absolute may be up for the debate, but the mechanisms are not.

You culturally appropriate down in the hierarchy of privilege. You assimilate upward.

[LittleBlue]

191. A list of unprovable terms with no conceivable application

Your academic concentration is of no practical use and can't even be proven. I'd only worry if I agreed with anything taught in such a silly field of study.

[kwassa]

248. Why do you state it can't be proven?

So, are you an engineering major? Science? what is it?

[Gravitycollapse]

279. Unprovable in what respect? If you want to be an absolutist, up your semantics game.

Are you a big Wittgensteinian? Do you live your life from one formal proof to the next?

Just because you cannot conceive of an application for the study of cultural appropriation does not mean one does not exist.

[MrScorpio]

61. Wow.

Simply wow.

[KittyWampus]

90. WRONG! Native Americans certainly own the right to call their artwork "Native American".

A lot of it is in the labeling.

Only one small area can call its sparkling wine "champagne".

[LittleBlue]

185. Nope. You're talking about trademarks

I can, for instance, put on a Native American headdress, sing Native American songs, do Native American dances, and sell that for $$$.

Good luck stopping me from appropriating everything about that culture despite having 0% Native American ancestry. You do not own a single thing besides what you're able to purchase, trademark and copyright. And none of that is what Iggy does.

[gollygee]

242. Yes, Ayn Rand, you have the legal right to do a number of irresponsible things. n/t

[LittleBlue]

255. That is a matter of debate

I see absolutely nothing irresponsible about Iggy rapping.

In fact, all I see is jealousy that she's been able to achieves success at it.

[gollygee]

271. No, it's about irresponsibility and disrespect.

You not seeing it doesn't mean it's not there.

[pinboy3niner]

26. Don't...

[DawgHouse]

32. traffic traffic, lookin for my chapstick.

gettin kinda carsick, there's a Ford Maverick

[Desert805]

62. Ha!

That, and:
Straight outta Low Cash, crazy motherfucker named Gusto!
I'll *have relations with* your wife, because she is a big ho!
Etc.
Etc.

From CB4 are forever burned in my brain. My go to laugh-a-raps, lol

[Ykcutnek]

27. It is acceptable if she continues to be successful.

Until her popularity and profits drop, she should keep on keeping on.

[kelliekat44]

28. What's that they say about "flattery?" nt

[Go Vols]

215. +1

[PeteSelman]

29. Ask Eminem.

Of course, he actually has talent. What that Iggy person does is akin to a minstrel show. It's racist and insulting.

[backwoodsbob]

67. I don't know about racist

opportunist would be more like it.She seems like a marginally talented singer who found a niche where she could make money and grabbed it.

Eminem on the other hand....I was there in detroit when he hit the scene.He was tearing it up locally before he made it big and he earned it all.Dre wasn't sent his demo because he sucked

[TransitJohn]

82. So, I just watched an Iggy Azalea video so I would know what the brouhaha is over

and yeah, her vocal performance is delivered as a caricature of black performers'. I can see why it would be insulting to people of color. Also, it just plain sucks, as does that whole genre of music. Last statement my own personal opinion, ymmv.

[gollygee]

96. Thank you for having an open mind

and not simply dismissing it, which is easy for those of us who are in the privileged group to do.

[sir pball]

216. Thank you, beat me to the punch. I don't care about Iggy personally but she stinks.

Slim, on the other hand, is legit scary good. The Marshall Mathers LP, IMO, is up there with Fear of a Black Planet or Midnight Marauders. Iggy certainly shouldn't be threatened with virtual rape, but at the same time...she sucks.

[951-Riverside]

30. It would be like saying Azealia Banks wears a straight wig to give herself a more anglo look...

because she isnt proud of her natural afro-textured hair.

That is how absurd, convoluted and racist her attack on Icky Australian... I mean Iggy Azalea is.

[morningfog]

38. If you think that hair is "anglo", you are ignorant of African-American style.

[951-Riverside]

39. I'm only pointing out how absurd and idiotic her attack on Icky Australian is

Everyone should be allowed to wear whatever they want and express themselves however they want, Azealia Banks needs to settle down and focus on her own music and art.

[bravenak]

103. Faking a black accent is insulting as hell.

Especially when we know she don't talk like that in RL. I see her on interviews nd she do not sound black. Then on her videos she try to be the blackest person there.
Reminds of of when Miley Cyrus tried to dance like a black woman at the awards show. Number one, she did a bad job, number two, wrong body type for the performance, number three pointing at black womens butts, smacking them, laughing, and trying to cop cat.
Iggy... She OK. She's just hella phony.
I crack up on her like I crack up on Lil Wayne wearing super tight skater pants and skateboarding badly.
Sometimes cultural appropriation works. Not always. And black people living here do not appropriate culture. We were born in a White majority nation and cannot succed unless we assimilate. Our former cultures were stolen and violently supressed. So, a black american woman wearing a long ass wig is just a sign of assimilation, not cultural appropriation.

Also , many black women have very long hair themselves. I usually cut mind just below my shoulder blades. My sister grows her poor hair until it reaches her butt, then cuts a bit, and it's baaack a few months later. Do not assume long hair is a wig. Mine never is. I only say that because you posted a picture of a black woman with long colored hair as possible cultural appropriation. It's not. That woman may have long hair, but likes wigs for the ease of use , and to protect her own hair. When I was a dancer, I sometimes wore wigs. My hair is super curley. I wanted it straight with out using flatirons.
Unless you know about black hair, don't speak on it. There is a history there you need to learn before you get to jive talking. Watch 'Good Hair'.

[treestar]

111. You're first sentence

Why should it be insulting? Aren't you appropriating the idea that the person must be making fun of it because there is no other reason to do it? If I imitate a British accent, I'm not seen as or assumed to be making fun of the British. Or, they wouldn't feel that way. It's like one is buying the idea blacks are inferior, so nobody would imitate them except to make fun of or insult them. I agree it could be a fine line, but there's a point where one's culture is good enough to interest people outside that and it should be a positive feeling. If it results in a certainty one is being made fun of, well, the person could still be feeling inferior.

[bravenak]

116. Immitation is not always flattery.

In our nation whites faking a 'black' accent or mannerisms goes all the way back to black face. It's fake and insulting.
If your immitation of another cultures mannerisms and speech patterns are considered insulting by them, and they feel like you are making fun of them do you continue or just use your own speech patterns and mannerisms?
I have a gay friend who has a real lisp. There are straight people who like to affect his mannerisms. He finds it insulting. Should I question him and tell him they are just flattering him and trying to be a a part of his group? Or should I tell the asshole affecting his mannerisms to knock it the fuck off, they 're being insulting?

I lived among a homogeneous white population right after I moved from Mid City Los Angeles. They loved using my accent and speech patterns to make fun. They enjoyed it. I seethed inside. The more they did it, the more comfortable they felt. It is not my job to make cultural appropriators comfortable. You do not have to fake an accent to maje it in hip hop. MM is one of the biggests hip hop stars ever and he does not fake it to make it.

[treestar]

117. I agree it is possible they are doing it to make fun of people

But's it's not so cut and dried and in some instances might be imitation in the form of flattery.

Now having looked at a video of this Iggy, I don't see why she needs to fake the accent, and she doesn't do such a great job of it either.

[bravenak]

120. There is no reason for her to do it.

I think that may be why it irritates. She's pretty, rich, blond, famous. I believe I would find it more interesting in an Australian accent.
I knew girls like her back in the day. They're back to their old accents now.

[EX500rider]

305. "I think that may be why it irritates. She's pretty, rich, blond, famous."

Let me put that in the proper order for you:

She's pretty, rich, blond, famous, I think that may be why it irritates.

[bravenak]

310. Naw, playa, it was right the first time.

Affected accents irritate. I made fun of Madonna for years after she popped up with a british accent.
And if you think people can't make money in hip hop with an Australian accent, you cray cray. American teens would eat that shit up all day.
I mean, really though, why fake an accent if you can't handle being called fake?
Remember when Miley was twerking? It lasted about two weeks. Then she felt stupid, same here. Iggy be over there crying to T.I., trying to get him to stop the black female rappers from battling her on their albums. Apparently nobody told her that when you become a rapper and your fake as fuck, people are going to call you out and beefing occurs. She don't freestyle or write her own rhymes so she's stuck over there crying and getting punked.
I used to rap battle in high school, free style flows, smashing on phony ass dudes pretending to be hard. Somebody shoulda let her know. Hell, ain't nobody here see 8 Mile?

[Everything Sucks]

335. American teens

If they don't object at all to Ed Sheeran's goofy ass rapping, I can't imagine they would object to someone rapping in an Australian accent.

[bravenak]

336. They buy anything. Anything at all.

[XemaSab]

356. Isn't most weave hair from India?

[gollygee]

72. cultural appropriation is when a dominate group takes on, or takes over,

something from an oppressed group.

[treestar]

112. Are there any other examples?

It just seems to me like the oppressed culture would be forever left out of influencing the rest of the world. It actually seems positive to me if the oppressed culture is starting to affect the dominant one, and a sign it may be starting to be less oppressed. For example, in the prior eras where white people would never be caught dead doing anything black (didn't they condemn rock and roll as black at first?) because they truly looked down on black people.

[gollygee]

131. If you read about Native American spirituality and cultural appropriation

you'll read a great deal. It is hard to understand and you pick up on part of why. It's a tricky issue and I'm not surprised there's confusion.

I saw an article about how The Nightmare Before Christmas is about a kind of cultural appropriation. Jack is fascinated by Christmas and really wants to give it a go, but he really just takes over, and what he ends up with is so tainted by his authentic self that it isn't really Christmas anymore. So imagine Christmas as it once was no longer existing and only ever seeing that version of Christmas. There's a loss when that happens.

White people can appreciate aspects of oppressed cultures respectfully without taking them over and altering them, and without mocking them as this woman (can't think of her name) does with Hip-Hop when she alters her natural speech. It is an area where there is gray area and that's probably why it's so hard to get a handle on and understand. But it isn't without damage.

[BlueJazz]

31. I thought imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

As far as this black and white thing. Forget it. Nobody has a copyright on style.
As a Musician and a pretty decent one, Chord patterns and notes live together on Black and White paper called Staff Paper.

[gollygee]

78. Not always.

You sound sincere. You should read a bit about cultural appropriation to see what the issue is.

[BlueJazz]

88. Oh..I understand the topic and the issue. I say this with all kindness>

To me..it's a non-issue when it comes to music and culture. I'll try to explain my point of view. I was blessed/cursed with perfect pitch. Yes...when I hear any song, even for the first time, I can/could write down the entire score/chords or whatever while sitting at the dining table. It's just simple to me. BUT..I also hear the cultures that are intertwined within the structure of the song. There's really nothing new going on in modern music that hasn't been done before.
I mean, other cultures stole the blues from the slaves but improved upon it. The KEY on what I just said was "other cultures". (some would think.."oh..you mean white&quot No...there were Northern blacks that were quite integrated with the northern music scene that also took this new sound/culture and called it their own....and they had a lifestyle that was in common with the Black Slaves as I have in common with the Koch Brothers.
I guess my point..for me...is this new Black or White culture is just plain Nothing New. The songs/culture/actions/facial expressions/hand and arm movements/the LOOK/talk is just the same old gift, dressed up in a different package. There's really nothing to steal.

Your mileage may vary though.

[Vattel]

40. Of course it is acceptable. You can't control music and art like something you own.

Every new musical movement soon has various descendants that take it in different directions. Some of those may be dead ends, some may be worthless though commercially successful, but some are amazing and wonderful. The Puerto Rican group Calle 13 is a child of hip hop and they are awesome. It would be absurd to suggest that they shouldn't be doing what they do just because they are not black.

[Iggo]

41. Mick Jagger.

[JustAnotherGen]

157. Who stole from Muddy Waters

[Iggo]

180. That's the point.

We've been here before. First there's copycats, then there's variations, and then you get something new. That's music. Complaining about copycats won't stop people copying what they like, or even just copying what they can do. And as far as I've seen over the last fifty-plus years, complaining about the skin color of the copycats is useless.

[JustAnotherGen]

181. Well - I think if she wants to be one of us

She has to learn to take the heat.

This is what we do - black women are the harshest critics of other black women.


We are.


She's going through what very thirteen year old girl who doesn't get her first relaxer for junior high went through in the 1980's.

[MelungeonWoman]

192. Can she take it? Here is her twitter log regarding the latest Banks poutrage...

I'm not sure if it's okay to lift tweets like this, if not let me know and I'll delete...

The obsession continues...

In 2001 I lost a record deal because another new artist told the president of the label she refused to be signed if I was also...

And at the time everyone had this person pegged as the next big thing and me as someone who wouldn't last into 2012 so they their way

It was the biggest blessing I could have ever received and I cherish the people I met as a result... what I took from that experience

is that NO ONE can stop or hinder what's truly meant for you! Your path is yours to make, there's nobody capable of blocking fate.

Be good to others, try to concern yourself with what YOUR creating and doing... And most importantly...

When you get the damn spotlight... talk about what good YOU'VE GOT GOING ON!

Being petty and spiteful is such a waste of energy, it's a recipe for failure and I wouldn't wish that attitude on anyone.

Guys, I wholeheartedly believe no one can take what's meant for you, stay positive while you're striving to reach your goal.

And don't worry about those who try to sabotage or undermine you, perseverance and positivity will always trump any negative you may face.

If I know anything, I KNOW this to be true. Night! Love you all.

WATER is more powerful than FIRE. Be water, guys. Calm, fluid, able to adapt to change, everlasting. Fire is quick to burn out.

Life's too short for negativity.

(tweets from the next morning)

Special msg for banks: there are many black artists succeeding in all genres. The reason you haven't is because of your piss poor attitude.

Your inability to be responsible for your own mistakes, bullying others, the inability to be humble or have self control. It's YOU!

You created your own unfortunate situation by being a bigot and don't have the mental capacity to realize yet. Probably never will.

Now, rant! Make it racial! make it political! Make it whatever but I guarantee it won't make you likable & THAT'S why ur crying on the radio.

Enjoy continuing to bang your head against that metaphoric brick wall & Savor this attention. I'm the only way you get ANY.

You're poisonous and I feel genuinely sorry for you because it's obvious at this point you are a MISERABLE, angry human being. Regards!

I loved transcribing the first nights tweets, very uplifting.

[JustAnotherGen]

202. She comes across as very angry

Why is she so angry?

[MelungeonWoman]

219. As I said before, I thought parts were quite uplifting.

[JustAnotherGen]

221. To each their own. She's angry to me. - have an eta book rec

I'm more of a Bonnie Rait type of woman - than hippity hoppity poppy music. Old school rap? Love. But really only Jay Z and Eminem are doing that today.


ETA - I met Audrey when I was a little girl and have adored her since. We need more icons like her. This book is all of her lovely thoughts and words. Check it out!

http://www.amazon.com/How-Lovely-Audrey-Hepburn-Life/dp/0525948236

[gollygee]

222. Fate? LOL

She is marketable. It isn't fate, it's marketability. The reason she's marketable is because she fits the racist narrow standard of beauty. People can listen to that style of music and look at a white girl. That isn't fate.

[JustAnotherGen]

230. My brother's best friend from high school - my friend

Been in the rap industry as a producer exec since 1991 - he's on my FB, will be at my house New Years Eve. Talking old school guy a lot of years. She's a knee pads product.

And that's sad. It makes her very sad to me. Rihanna - nope. No knee pads. This one - yep.


That's why I can't come down on her too hard. She's pitiful.

[MelungeonWoman]

235. Whatever.

There are 2 female rappers, Nicki and Iggy. If anybody else could hang with them, there would be others. Banks is not in the same realm and that's the truth. Just because you can suck a dick doesn't mean that an agent is going to make you talented. Rihanna isn't even a rapper, she's a singer.

And I have no idea why I'm discussing the Azalea-Azealia feud with people who have never heard of either of them or have any idea of what constitutes current pop music.

[JustAnotherGen]

236. I don't know either!

[nomorenomore08]

253. And yet, like most popular male rappers, they're nowhere near exceptional in their rapping skills.

Unfortunately, nowadays talent and stardom seem less linked than ever.

[olddots]

43. you kids with your tight pants and the long hair

Stay off my lawn and my drum machine !

[Number23]

45. White appropriation of black culture is nothing new but Iggy takes it to another level

She is not a bad rapper but she seems like an incredibly ridiculous person. She has tweeted some EXTREMELY questionable comments about black people and other people of color, has been very quiet on the issues affecting black Americans, and yet for the life of her seems genuinely confused that so many black people won't give her the time of day.

Not that it matters. White people have been all too quick and happy to "anoint" her the Great White Hope of hip hop. I look at her and see a woman who is average looking (at the ABSOLUTE best) and yet, she's the first female rapper to have a modelling contract with Wilhemina, one of the largest and most accomplished modelling agencies in the world. And I'm sure that it's a coincidence that 20 years earlier, Marky Mark was the first male rapper to have a modelling contract too. Yeah. Coincidence.

So the fact that she is a modern day minstrel, seems to be an incredibly ignorant and unlikeable person, is mildly talented at best and is still winning awards and $$$ from white people right and left, are black people NOT supposed to notice this? And this has nothing to do with her being white. Every black person I know has LOVED Eminem from the get go. As well as the Beastie Boys and Third Bass (back in the day. Real hip hop heads know who I'm talking about). The difference between these guys and Iggy is that they have never pretended to be anything other than what they were.

More broadly, this conversation is about the elevation and adulation of white mediocrity, whilst black talent continues to flounder on the margins. This is how structural racism thrives.

The author is spot on here. Iggy has skated in on the virtue of having a thin body and her skin and hair color and acts as though she's worked for what she's gotten. And I will never forgive T.I. for inflicting her on the world, same as Usher with Justin Bieber.

[Violet_Crumble]

66. I think you hit the nail on the head with yr post...

Apart from that, another difference between Iggy and Eminem and the Beastie Boys is that they've got talent and she doesn't. They also showed respect for the culture rap came from, and she doesn't. I don't see how someone who grows up in Mullimbimby (small town off the Pacific Highway on the north coast of New South Wales) and then goes directly to the US to find a mentor has any understanding of African-American culture and hip hop. It probably explains the lack of depth and also the incredibly insensitive comments she's made and the insistence that she's not a racist even though lots of people are telling her that she's said racist stuff.

This article has some of her now deleted tweets.

http://mic.com/articles/91487/a-look-through-iggy-azalea-s-digital-past-reveals-something-everyone-s-overlooking

I listened to the interview she did where she talked about indigenous Australians to see if it was as bad as what the article said it was. She started off well with saying that they are ostracised and the victims of stereotyping, but then goes on to throw around some of those stereotypes eg Aboriginals destroy their homes because they want to drag their mattresses outside and sleep under the stars, etc. The stereotype she's using there is the one about Aboriginals being feral, relying on government handouts, and destroying anything they get. Urgh...

http://black-australia.tumblr.com/post/86986108822/in-this-video-iggy-azalea-is-interviewed-by-the

[Number23]

124. Ugh. So she's clueless about black Americans AND black Australians??

Color me super surprised!

[Violet_Crumble]

299. She's also clueless about Australian hip hop...

That's a minor one compared to the others, but I read an article where she was really dismissive of Australian rappers, saying stuff like she thought they sounded like crap coz they weren't using American accents and how she had to leave Australia coz they were small fish in a small pond and she's so much better than them. It was cringeworthy reading.

I've been reading some posts in this thread and got the impression that some DUers think that the issue is that African Americans don't want anyone but them doing hip hop, and they're ignoring the fact that Iggy Azalea is doing the fake American hip hop accent thing while making some pretty racist comments. I doubt very much that anyone apart from Iggy Azalea would have a problem with these two examples of Australian hip hop. I'm not a fan of the genre (either American or Australian), but I think the first is awesome. It's done by an Aboriginal rapper and features a famous Aboriginal musician. The second I only like coz it features Bluejuice, one of my favourite local bands. And there's no fake American accents anywhere


If you don't watch both, watch the first. It's really, really good...

[Number23]

361. What a great post, Violet. And I agree with you

If some people, most of whom are white, want to try to turn this into "black people are jealous of Iggy's success" rather than note her genuine ignorance of hip hop, black culture and her tone deaf and borderline racist tweets, that's on them.

I know that first artist but I can't remember his name! Not the rapper, the AMAZING singer. I can't remember his name but I have heard him before and his voice is absolutely stunning. Haunting and beautiful.

[Violet_Crumble]

399. His name's Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu, and unlike Iggy he's amazingly talented...

There's lots of his stuff on Youtube. I'm not really all that into his music, but he started out in Yothu Yindi and his uncle was the lead singer. Back in the 90's I loved Yothu Yindi...

[EX500rider]

306. "difference between Iggy and Eminem and the Beastie Boys is that they've got talent and she doesn't"

Isn't that strictly a matter of opinion?

[bravenak]

314. No.

[EX500rider]

318. Actually yes.....and if Eminem's talent is singing about raping Iggy I can do without, thanks..

Iggy Azalea Blasts Eminem For Threatening To Rape Her In New Song 'Vegas'

Eminem has made a career out of threatening female pop stars like Britney Spears, Christina Aguillera and Mariah, but the times are changing and the 42-year-old rapper isn't.

Last week, he caused outrage by threatening to punch Lana Del Ray, but an alleged leak of his latest song "Vegas" goes even further beyond the pale.

"You're lucky just to follow my ride / If I let you run alongside the Humvee, unless you're Nicki / Grab you by the wrist, let's ski / So, what's it gon' be? / Put that shit away, Iggy / You gon' blow that rape whistle on me. / (Scream!) I love it / 'Fore I get lost with the gettin' off."

But Azalea blasted right back on Twitter, saying she was "bored" of such threats and noting how tough women in music have to be because they face so much harassment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/21/iggy-azalea-eminem-rape-song_n_6201088.html

[bravenak]

322. Did he really do that?

I can't believe this shit.
Okay, yeah, so your right. It's a matter of opinion. I don't actually hate her music. I guess my preference is to hear it in an accent from Australia. It might be cool.

[EX500rider]

326. Actually i agree, I think the Aussie accent would be cool in a rap also.

[TransitJohn]

101. Good post. eom

n/t

[hughee99]

107. So it's about the money. It's really only offensive because she's successful. n/t

[Number23]

125. If you got that out of my post, out of the article in the OP and out of the comments in this thread

Then I don't even understand why you bothered to "participate" in this discussion to begin with.

[hughee99]

128. When people become concerned about cultural

Appropriation only after someone appears to be making money on it, it's not the appropriation that's the real issue, it's the money. While no one seems to be actually saying it that way, that seems to be the underlying implicit argument in some posts.

[Number23]

135. Black people have railed against cultural appropriation forever. To NO avail

Large numbers of black people have disliked Iggy and her "blackccent" and butt implants since she came out. She has been openly mocked at every instance, same as Vanilla Ice (another clueless white person who "decided" to rap when none of his other ventures played out) was 20 years prior. I can guarantee that it's not black people making this woman rich.

But what usually happens when black people dare to talk about it is that someone (usually white) accuses us of being "jealous" and only caring about what's going on because the person is "successful" before blithely and completely ignoring every single one of the cultural issues that everyone is attempting to discuss. It's a very effective tactic at changing the subject.

[hughee99]

137. Ah, I see what you did there...

very clever. Talking about what happens to people who "dare to talk about it" and what kind of people are accusing them is another effective tactic for changing the subject.

If you have issues with a white hip-hop artists, but not the white hip-hop fans that appropriate the same culture and support black hip-hop artists, you might have a pretty weak argument. It's pretty easy to say what you've been for or against "forever" on an internet posting.

[Number23]

139. Yes, because no one ever railed before the Internet was created.

Before you decide to keep engaging with me, you might want to do a bit of research on the number of black people that railed against Elvis Presley, the Rolling Stones and any slew of other white artists that picked up decidedly black musical forms. As I said in my intial post, this is not new. Hell, even watching five minutes of "Dreamgirls" will provide you with a clue, particularly the scene when the black songwriter has smoke coming out of his ears when a white Pat Boone-ish character just TAKES a song that he wrote, whitewashes it, and repackages it back to whites without giving any credit and DEFINITELY not any $$$ to the black songwriters.

I thought it was fairly obvious in my initial post when I noted that with all of Iggy's mediocrity (in her appearance, talent and intellect) that it was still white people that were showering her with $$$, modelling contracts and accolades, that I (along with the author in the OP) were finding as much fault with society and Iggy's fans as with her herself?

I guess you just missed that bit. Along with my other points as well as apparently everything else in this discussion. And yet and still, here you are...

[hughee99]

140. So I should do a bit of research into the number of black people that railed about

FAMOUS white people appropriating their culture? Your whole first paragraph makes a far better case for what I'M saying than for what YOU'VE been saying. People are clearly pissed when money is being made on it, far less pissed (or at least far less vocal) when they are not.

I'm not arguing that Iggy has some superior talent, that she's "earned" her success through hard work or ability or EVEN that her race isn't a significant factor in her success. I am saying that I hear almost no issues with white hip hop FANS "appropriating the culture" when they're buying the clothing or music or concert tickets, or even using much of the slang as opposed to the examples you cited in your post where it's always been an issue with white artists trying to SELL tickets, music or clothing.

Thank you for doing a very good job of making my point.

[Number23]

141. As I said in my first post to you, your inability to read and process the lines of this conversation

make it extremely difficult to understand WHY you decided to participate in it in the first place. And with every post since, you have done absolutely nothing but reinforce that.


I am saying that I hear almost no issues with white hip hop FANS "appropriating the culture" when they're buying the clothing or music or concert tickets, or even using much of the slang as opposed to the examples you cited in your post where it's always been an issue with white artists trying to SELL tickets, music or clothing.

Judging by your posts, this doesn't surprise me in the least. And I also think that even if you personally did hear black people protesting about the number of white people buying hip hop music and using the lingo, you wouldn't be able to understand it just as it is very clear you've understood NOTHING about this conversation. I guess all of the comedians (Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle), academics (Michael Eric Dyson), artists (Erykah Badu, Public Enemy too many others to name) journalists and writers (bell hooks and too many others to count) that have constantly railed/discussed/poked fun at the appropriation and misuse of black culture by whites just flew over your head or you just didn't "know" about them.

I have mentioned at LEAST twice now about the white people buying Iggy's music and you are so determined to argue whatever point you are breaking into a sweat trying to make that you have decided to continue to overlook that. This conversation is not only beyond pointless it is boring and is indicative of why so many black people have long since given up railing about the appropriation of our culture. You (and unfortunately you are not alone in this regard) are incapable of hearing, of listening and of understanding and I've done enough community service with you and this conversation.

[hughee99]

143. Nice. Almost an entire post where you talk about me,

what I think, what I don't understand and what I wouldn't be able to understand rather than making your point or refuting mine. It's also good to declare someone incapable of understanding a point you made very poorly or not at all. One of my favorites is "why can't people just understand X" and then after several weak attempts "if you don't understand, I can't explain it to you" or "I'm wasting my time"... because let's be honest, if our time (yours or mine) were all that valuable at the moment, NEITHER one of us would be posting here.

I'll make my point simple. Sure, it's annoying to some black people that 10,000 white kids show up to a hip hop concert with culturally appropriated clothing and hairstyles, but it pisses a lot of black people off if they paid to see a white kid on stage doing the same thing. The profit is a far more significant offense than than the cultural appropriation.

But hey, since you've declared yourself done with this conversation, I'm done too. Happy Holidays.

[kwassa]

252. The profit is the result of cultural appropriation

Little Richard records "Tutti Frutti"

He creates the artistic work.

Pat Boone appropriates "Tutti Frutti", doing his watered-down version for white audiences, and makes lots more money off it.

Little Richard does not make that money.

Rinse, repeat, for many other black and white artists. Art created by blacks, appropriated by whites, money made by whites.

[hughee99]

257. This is a specific case of a specific work that you are citing.

In the OP, the performer didn't take someone else's song (although if I understand correctly, the writers of Tutti Frutti, including Little Richard, did receive royalties from Pat Boone), they appropriated the STYLE, but not the "artistic work". The "artistic work" (intellectual property), the song itself, isn't being appropriated... unless you want to argue that hairstyle, appearance and language are part of the "artistic work".

Although if that's the case, you could probably make the same argument for artists that might have the same skin color but not the same social background (kids who grow up in middle class or affluent suburbs singing about life in the inner city, for example).

[kwassa]

263. The style is part of the artistic work, and the style is what is being appropriated.

[hughee99]

266. So style is part of one's artistic work and is "intellectual property",

so one artist's style shouldn't be emulated by another regardless of skin color. Is that what you're saying?

[kwassa]

268. Cultural appreciation vs. cultural appropriation

Cultural appreciation is giving credit to the source you are copying from and emulating. Eminem would be an example.

Cultural appropriation is white majority culture rip-off of minority culture and profiting from said rip-off with crediting the source. Miley Cyrus and her twerking, a black dance style, that shocked some people at an awards show, would be such an example.

Cultural appreciation: the Rolling Stones, early in their career, appeared on a dance show in Chicago, but only if they could also bring on one of their Chicago blues heroes, Howling Wolf, also onto the show for a performance. And that is what happened.

Stylistic things are shared by common culture, more than an individual artist. Many of the performance things that Little Richard did came out of the Southern black experience, often the Southern black churches, where many performers got their start.

[hughee99]

274. Okay, so this is not really what we were discussing before, where style is part of an artist's

specific work, but okay.

Cultural appreciation vs. cultural appropriation. I would certainly agree that these two things occur, but where is the line? Is Miley Cyrus supposed to come off stage and say "I'd like to thank black people for that dance"? And if she did do that, how do you think it would have gone over in the black community? Does one need someone to "vouch" for them, like when Eminem started out with Dr. Dre or the Stones with Howling Wolf or is it like the old pornography rule, "I know it when I see it"?

[kwassa]

275. It is sometimes hard to determine that line between the two.

and the line is in different places for different people. Miley should have introduced it in a way that is not about her, but about the dance.

I think some of the current appropriation is part of the never-ending quest to be shocking and new in our culture, and running out of things to shock people with is a problem. Miley is definitely trying to out-shock.

The cornrow things was appropriated a long time ago, way back in Bo Derek's day in 1979. I saw many American tourists getting cornrows from Hispanic women at Mexican resorts on my honeymoon in 1999.

[hughee99]

276. I don't disagree with anything you just said, but that brings me back

to the original statement I made on this thread. Appropriation vs appreciation can be a gray area, and based on my own limited experience, the difference seems to be who is making money off it and how much.

[kwassa]

277. In as sense that is true, but in general ...

it is the white artists making money off black inventions, that is what the appropriation fight is all about.

Here is a good piece of commentary I just ran into.

from Salon, Brittney Cooper, a black writer writes about Iggy Azalea:

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/15/iggy_azaleas_post_racial_mess_americas_oldest_race_tale_remixed/

As a born-and-raised Southern girl, who believes that lazy summer evenings are best spent with your top back or your sun roof open, bass-heavy music booming through nice speakers, while you slowly make a few blocks through the neighborhood, to see who’s out and what’s poppin,’ I resent Iggy Azalea for her co-optation and appropriation of sonic Southern Blackness, particularly the sonic Blackness of Southern Black women. Everytime she raps the line “tell me how you luv dat,” in her song “Fancy,” I want to scream “I don’t love dat!” I hate it. The line is offensive because this Australian born-and-raised white girl almost convincingly mimics the sonic register of a downhome Atlanta girl.

The question is why? Why is her mimicry of sonic Blackness okay? Though rap music is a Black and Brown art form, one does not need to mimic Blackness to be good at it. Ask the Beastie Boys, or Eminem, or Macklemore. These are just a smattering of the white men who’ve been successful in rap in the last 30 years and generally they don’t have to appropriate Blackness to do it. In the case of Southern rappers like Bubba Sparxx or Paul Wall, who do “sound Black” as it were, at least it is clear that they also have the accents of the places and communities in which they grew up.

[joeglow3]

261. Happens all the time in music. Look at what Geto Boys did with Scarface.

[kwassa]

264. I have no idea what you are referring to. "Scarface" the movie?

or is there a song named "Scarface"?

[joeglow3]

294. They are a rap group with a member named scarface.

They have many songs with clips and lyrics lifted straight from the movie.

[bravenak]

315. Ghetto boys!!!!

I loved my mind is playing tricks on me.

[joeglow3]

319. I still pop Uncut Dope into the CD player occasionally.

[bravenak]

324. LOL! I was listening to the Ten Crack Commandments earlier. On a CD.

My husband was like where the hell did you find that? It's been in storage for like 8 years. Still plays perfectly.

[upaloopa]

378. Did Michael Jackson appropriate White culture

and make a lot of money or does appropriation only go one direction?
When Black singers and had a cross over hit who was the appropriated and who was the appropriatee?
How about the Righteous Brothers? Were they guilty of appropriation when Southerners thought they were Black? How about Chuck Barry? Did he appropriate rock and roll? When people like Jackie Wilson (who was. a favorite of mine) used hair straightener was he appropriating White culture? I went to sleep most every night as a kid listening to Mo Town was I appropriating Black Culture? Or is it bad only if you make money? I guess the White DJ's were appropriating too?
They made lots of money.
I think most of what is in this thread is mind fucking head games.

[kwassa]

387. Cultural appropriation has a definition. It has been posted repeatedly. Read it and understand.

The majority culture appropriates the minority culture.

That's all.

Go back and sift through your response and see where it applies.

[upaloopa]

390. Sorry I am not buying it. I don't care what your

definition is. Every part of that argument is so convienient. You have invented a paradigm to look at the cultures through. It isn't real. It is as I said a head game.

[kwassa]

391. It isn't up to you whether it exists or not. Me, either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation

Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of one culture by members of a different cultural group, specifically the use by cultural outsiders of a minority, oppressed culture's symbols or other cultural elements.[1][2] It differs from acculturation or assimilation in that cultural "appropriation" or "misappropriation" refers to the adoption of these cultural elements, taken from minority cultures by members of the dominant culture, and then using these elements outside of their original cultural context. This cultural property may be forms of dress or personal adornment, music or art, religion, language, intellectual property or social behavior, all of which may have deep cultural meaning to the original culture, but may be used as fashion by those from outside that culture.

http://racerelations.about.com/od/diversitymatters/fl/What-Is-Cultural-Appropriation-and-Why-Is-It-Wrong.htm

Susan Scafidi, a law professor at Fordham University, told Jezebel.com that it’s difficult to give a concise explanation of cultural appropriation. The author of Who Owns Culture? Appropriation and Authenticity in American Law, defined cultural appropriation as follows:

“Taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge, cultural expressions, or artifacts from someone else's culture without permission. This can include unauthorized use of another culture's dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine, traditional medicine, religious symbols, etc. It's most likely to be harmful when the source community is a minority group that has been oppressed or exploited in other ways or when the object of appropriation is particularly sensitive, e.g. sacred objects.”

In the United States, cultural appropriation almost always involves members of the dominant culture (or those who identify with it) “borrowing” from the cultures of minority groups. African Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans and indigenous peoples generally tend to emerge as the groups targeted for cultural appropriation. Black music and dance, Native American fashions, decorations and cultural symbols, and Asian martial arts and dress have all fallen prey to cultural appropriation.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/09/cultural-exchange-and-cultural-appropriation/

But even if the line between exchange and appropriation bends, twists, and loop-de-loops in ways it would take decades of academic thought to unpack, it has a definite starting point: Respect.
What Cultural Exchange Is Not

One of the reasons that cultural appropriation is a hard concept to grasp for so many is that Westerners are used to pressing their own culture onto others and taking what they want in return.

We tend to think of this as cultural exchange when really, it’s no more an exchange than pressuring your neighbors to adopt your ideals while stealing their family heirlooms.

True cultural exchange is not the process of “Here’s my culture, I’ll have some of yours” that we sometimes think it is. It’s something that should be mutual.

Just because Indian Americans wear business suits doesn’t mean all Americans own bindis and saris. Just because some black Americans straighten their hair doesn’t mean all Americans own dreadlocks.

The fact is, Western culture invites and, at times, demands assimilation. Not every culture has chosen to open itself up to being adopted by outsiders in the same way.

And there’s good reason for that.

“Ethnic” clothes and hairstyles are still stigmatized as unprofessional, “cultural” foods are treated as exotic past times, and the vernacular of people of color is ridiculed and demeaned.

So there is an unequal exchange between Western culture – an all-consuming mishmash of over-simplified and sellable foreign influences with a dash each of Coke and Pepsi – and marginalized cultures.

People of all cultures wear business suits and collared shirts to survive. But when one is of the dominant culture, adopting the clothing, food, or slang of other cultures has nothing to do with survival.

So as free as people should be to wear whatever hair and clothing they enjoy, using someone else’s cultural symbols to satisfy a personal need for self-expression is an exercise in privilege.

Because for those of us who have felt forced and pressured to change the way we look, behave, and speak just to earn enough respect to stay employed and safe, our modes of self-expression are still limited.

[upaloopa]

392. You can find a million words on line to support anything

Just because you find some people who look at the world through the same paradigm as you doesn't make it so.
Why not go back say 100 years and see if you can find any support? If it exists now it existed then too.
What happened to White privilege? That was the rage for a few months here.
Now it is cultural appropriation. How long before a new flavor of the month comes along?

[kwassa]

393. No. You can't.

You don't know anything about this subject, and therefore deny that the subject exists.

I can't say that I'm surprised.

[upaloopa]

394. Bull shit argument.

I can't say I am surprised either.

[kwassa]

396. Alright. Let us see if you can actually construct an argument.

I've given you plenty of material. With links that you can examine.

It is your turn. Let you show me how that material is incorrect. You can use all the links that you want. This will, however, require you to do research, and to substantiate your position.

[upaloopa]

397. I don't have to prove anything.

How long has the idea been around?
In what social studies books has it been discussed.
The mere fact that it can only go in one direction is bullshit enough.
You need more sources than Wikipedia and some blogs. You need to go back in time like I said and show some works that describe what you are talking about. We started with Elvis. Let's go back to the fifties and look up cultural appropriation.
You won't find it because people never thought in those terms.
It is your White vs Black topic of the month. I am sure in a few months there will be a new one.

[kwassa]

398. I win. You don't have anything. I knew it.

Thanks. It's been wonderful.

[randys1]

401. No Michael Jackson did not.

[JustAnotherGen]

159. Nails it

So the fact that she is a modern day minstrel, seems to be an incredibly ignorant and unlikeable person, is mildly talented at best and is still winning awards and $$$ from white people right and left, are black people NOT supposed to notice this? And this has nothing to do with her being white. Every black person I know has LOVED Eminem from the get go. As well as the Beastie Boys and Third Bass (back in the day. Real hip hop heads know who I'm talking about). The difference between these guys and Iggy is that they have never pretended to be anything other than what they were.

I love Em - he's the real deal.
BBs - I have their first CD in my car - what they did with adding Electric guitar and hard rock drums made it "theirs".

And she is very basic. The modeling contract makes no sense - and shes not that thin. Take a look at Lydia Hearst Shaw. Then look at her. It makes no sense - that modeling contract.

[EX500rider]

331. "The modeling contract makes no sense - and shes not that thin."

Super thin's just for runway modeling....for print work you just have to be photogenic...which I think she is:

[fishwax]

289. !

[Number23]

291. Nice to see you, fishwax. You're one of a handful DUers that has really tried to not make this place

as miserable as utterly possible for minorities.

[XemaSab]

357. Most white people suffer from this shit, too

American standards of "beauty" are oppressive to everyone, even thin blonde women.

[Stellar]

46. What do you think?

There is nothing wrong with anyone performing what ever music that makes them happy.

They called Michael Jackson the King of Pop - - - and he didn't do badly by it.

Charley Pride was one of the most famous black country singer...there was nothing wrong with that.

I really would like to know what you think about it.

[VScott]

54. No... Micheal Jacksons publicists/handlers (if not MJ himself)

named him the "King of Pop".

[Stellar]

71. That's still being questioned as far as I know.

I've read that Elizabeth Taylor gave him the title, 'The King Of Pop, Rock and Soul', and it was shortened to the king of Pop. But that's just one thing no one took him to court about.

I still want to know what the OP thought about it all. Or did s/he just post it to be argumentative...I don't know. It's hard to tell on a message board.

[nomorenomore08]

48. I wouldn't mind Iggy A. if she were a better rapper.

As it is, she's pretty mediocre, and it seems unfair for her to be taking up so much of the spotlight while more talented female rappers are relatively ignored. But that's the music biz for you.

[JonLP24]

49. I don't know the backstory to this

I'm hitting slowdown problems so I'm avoiding link clicking.

To the question, of course. "Steal" is different, people should have their own styles or shouldn't obviously rip off other artists.

Eminem's first album had reviews that his style was a very similar to an East coast reporter which he agreed with. He worked on developing his own style which worked out well for him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. Will post later.

[wyldwolf]

93. looking forward to your input

[1StrongBlackMan]

338. I am loathe to comment in these kind of threads ...

because as you can see, the message gets lost to those that choose to find personal insult; rather than listen to what is actually being said. In this thread, and the "culture appropriation" threads, in general, the critics are speaking to a specific sub-set of folks ... those that MISAPPROPRIATE a culture that one is not a part of.

The "I-GG-Y" is a pointed example of this, with her mimicking of the speech patterns and "celebrating" of blackness, that is little more the an outsiders use of observed characteristics/conduct (stereotypic, at that) to feign authenticity. Her Hip Hop persona is little more than brand-management.

[marble falls]

380. That one post was all that was needed on this OP. Thanks for saying it: she uses it to....

"feign authenticity. Her Hip Hop persona is little more than brand-management."

Good, bad, right or wrong: we need to put it into that perspective.

[VScott]

52. Meh. Disco sucked... rap blows... hip-hop is the bottom of the barrel .

There's only one Iggy, and his last name isn't "Azalea"....


[img][/img]

[bravenak]

55. Don't like him.

Can't dance. Saw him dance once. Looked like he was ill.

[VScott]

56. Was there ever time when he didn't look ill?

I first saw him perform around 78-79 or so.

Dancing ability/talent wasn't part of the scene back then (thank God).

Weird thing about him... he looks like a train wreck, but somehow has always had a ripped
looking body, no matter what his age was.

[bravenak]

58. I'm not quite sure if he once looked healthy...

I wasn't born till 81. I just remember watching him jerking around in leather pants and no shirt on stage on day on tv. I was like 'who the hell is that and why?' Stressed me out. Could not understand a word of it.
Maybe it was better back in the day.

[NBachers]

60. IGGY!

[Stellar]

73. I love Disco....

and I found that the people that didn't like Disco mostly because they couldn't dance.

and btw: who the f*** is this Iggy...could he dance?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

386. You've never heard "Lust for Life" or "Candy"?

Iggy's had a long, interesting career:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iggy_Pop

Dancing like a pop prince or princess? No. Stage-diving? Yes.

Bets as to the shelf life of Azealia and Azalea? Anyone?

[Stellar]

406. Sorry...

Only know "Lust For Life" by Thad Jones (Jazz)

Big Maybelle singing "Candy" (R&B)

[Tree-Hugger]

108. This right here. +1 nt

[WorseBeforeBetter]

385. I. Feel. It.

[Kalidurga]

59. I don't have a problem with white people doing hip hop

but I don't like Iggy Azealia.

[Blue_In_AK]

63. Little Richard and Pat Boone

Tutti Frutti.


The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Codeine]

70. As long as you have flow, who cares? nt

[Earth_First]

75. It's a genre of music...

How is this even a discussion?

Should I abandon cooking that has cultural relevance as well because I am not a member of a specific culture?

How about painting or photography?

This is silly...

[d_b]

81. couple of cans

[wyldwolf]

83. Just a few observations.

1. Why are a few in this thread saying Iggy tries to sound like a 'SOUTHERN black woman?' Hip Hop wasn't born in the south (unless you count SOUTH Bronx) and most hip hop female artists who use that method of rapping aren't southern.

2. If the hip hop industry is controlled by African Americans, then this clearly isn't a case of cultural appropriation because whites aren't the dominant force in hip hop. If hip hop is controlled by rich white record execs, then the cultural appropriation began decades before Iggy. Perhaps Banks should be concerned about that rather than one in a long line of white rappers?

(Azalea you're jest jealous it's the BEAStie BOYS!)

Greatest White Rappers of All Time

Runner ups from back in the day that didn't make the above list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_(musician)
http://theisleoffailedpopstars.blogspot.com/2007/10/misa-misa-1990.html
http://theisleoffailedpopstars.blogspot.com/2007/12/icy-blu-icy-blu-1991.html

[KittyWampus]

91. there is sort of an implicit racism in implying southern black women sound a particular way.

I said "sort of".

Cultural approbation is a good topic to discuss but DU, being the mosh pit it is, probably isn't the best venue.

[treestar]

119. I agree it is very interesting

And like having a black president, might be a good sign. Maybe she is actually NOT making fun of black women. Maybe I am a pollyanna on these things, but it seems like the oppression could be lifting in some ways - not that it isn't still bad in others, looking at the police shootings and such, but this kind of thing may be showing we are making progress.

[Ghost in the Machine]

144. They call Aerosmith "the grandfathers of rap" because of "Walk This Way"..

... and I loved it when they made the video with Run DMC.

As for the "SOUTH Bronx", the first rap I ever heard on the radio was Eazy E & the NWA, "Straight Outta Compton", and the 2 Live Crew from Miami. I met, and partied with, Luther Campbell, aka Luke Skywalker, when I lived in Miami. They called me "that crazy white boy" because I got along with everyone, and I would go into parts of Overtown and Liberty City that even the cops were afraid to go into at night.

They called Stevie Ray Vaughn the "Jimi Hendrix of the 80's", and he really did a lot in reviving The Blues Music for a lot of people.

Peace,

Ghost

[Taitertots]

84. Wah Wah Wah, Someone else wants to express themselves in the same medium as me.

Let me break out the words smallest violin for people who think artist expression is something that can be "stolen" from your race.


Trying to exclude a race of people from a specific action (rap music) solely on the basis of their race.... I don't think bigotry has ever been a positive force in society.

[mmonk]

85. Yes.

There are no racial or ethnic constraints on music, art, or the heart.

[99Forever]

86. Ridiculous.

Thanks for the Christmas morning laugh.

[Odin2005]

87. I guess Macklemore is an evil monster, too?

[dawg]

95. Iggy pisses me off a little, and *I'm* white myself.

I don't normally give any credence to notions of "culture stealing", and I think it's great when white people do hip hop and black people do country.

But Iggy comes pretty close to "blackface" with her vocal stylings. It doesn't have anything to do with the genre of much she performs.

[Iggo]

97. Elvis Presley.

[dawg]

98. I'm guessing you haven't heard Iggy Azalea.

[Iggo]

99. Oops. That was meant as a reply to the OP.

Sorry about that.

[Iggo]

100. Elvis Presley.

[bobclark86]

105. Led Zeppelin...

?v=1

[dawg]

102. Here's a 12 second clip ...

I think a little Adam Sandler has been mixed in as well.

[lame54]

106. it certainly acceptable for them to spend lots of money on it

[EX500rider]

110. 1st this thread is useless without a Iggy vid...

My understanding is she ran away from home at 16 to Miami, worked as a stripper for awhile to support herself and has done incredibly well since then. Apparently she has loved rap and hip hop since she was 11 and seems natural she would copy the style when she sings it.

"Fancy" went on to reach number one on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 chart, with Azalea becoming only the fourth solo female rapper ever to top the Hot 100. Additionally, with Azalea featured on Ariana Grande's single "Problem", which rose to number two on the Hot 100, the same week "Fancy" topped the chart, Azalea joined The Beatles as the only acts to rank at numbers one and two simultaneously with their first two Hot 100 hits. Additionally, Azalea went on to pass Lil' Kim as the female rapper with the longest-leading number one single on the Billboard Hot 100 and moved into a tie for fifth place among lead women who have scored the longest commands on the Hot 100 this decade.

?list=FLKmbj3XF1ryOYtieVrQey4g

[treestar]

113. Wonder why she doesn't just do that in her own accent.

It would still be rap, wouldn't it? Maybe to create the controversy to get attention. That seems to be the way nowadays. Offending people gets you publicity.

[EX500rider]

115. My guess is..

....she had black girlfriends in Miami and wanted to fit in and sound like them.

[treestar]

118. Yeah, I wonder how they would feel about that if it's so

Like the black girls in the car with her, or the other black people in the videos. If she's part of the hip hop scene, she could be around a lot of black people who are also into it.

[JustAnotherGen]

160. If she were to hang out with me

She wouldn't fit in. If she had been at my house on Christmas Eve - she would have been uncomfortable. My sister is the original black snob. You speak proper English around her or she calls you out.

[EX500rider]

308. However you and your sister might not have fit in with some black strippers in Miami either.

[JustAnotherGen]

320. Definitely not

My parents did their job.

[ErikJ]

132. That's could also be considered a Southern accent

which has come from 300 years of black influence.

[gollygee]

174. She isn't southern.

She's from New South Wales, Australia. She's putting on a style of speech that is not authentic to her, and taking over a style of music in a way that makes mocks people who actually have that vocal style. But then, because she's part of the dominant group (white) and therefore better fits the narrow standard of beauty set by the dominant group, she gets much more attention than people who authentically perform this music with that style of speech.

[EX500rider]

223. "She's putting on a style of speech that is not authentic to her"

So? Maybe she didn't (probably rightly so) think a Australian accented Hip-Hop'er would be very popular in the US.

Do the Beatles sound like they are from Liverpool in this song?:

[gollygee]

226. Yes, of course she thought it would make her more popular

which is the exact point. She gets to give the sound of the people who created that musical style, but give people the look that is more marketable due to racist narrow standards of beauty. That's the whole point. It's cultural appropriation.

[EX500rider]

228. So if that's the look or accent she like to use, she can't?

[gollygee]

234. She obviousy is capable of it

but it's cultural appropriation.

[LincolnsLeftHand]

258. So what's your point?

She shouldn't do it because of the ill-defined concept of "cultural appropriation"? Or what she does is okay and folks are just making a mountain out of a molehill? Because I certainly don't think artistic expression is limited by race. That line of thinking seems very right-wing to me.

[gollygee]

270. It is irresponsible and disrespectful.

Cultural appropriation is not a right-wing concept. They react to it the way you are.

[EX500rider]

307. "Wonder why she doesn't just do that in her own accent."

Well I imagine she didn't think a Australian accent would be very popular with fans of Hip Hop in the US.

[bravenak]

317. She's wrong.

We eats that shit up over here.

[EX500rider]

321. Actually her current popularity proves her right.

[bravenak]

323. I still think she would do even better acting real.

It lasts longer in the end.

[treestar]

328. I'd think it would get her attention

Americans like an Aussie accent. Plus she'd be unusual.

Singing usually mutes the accent anyway. Everyone kind of sounds Southern when singing.

She could have sounded American without attempting to sound African American.

[Everything Sucks]

288. Another video

Here is her first venture into the music business -- as an Australian popster:

[NaturalHigh]

126. Other than the fact that I hate rap...

or hip-hop or whatever, I couldn't care less. What difference does the race of the artist make?

[SomethingFishy]

190. +1 It's just repackaged Disco.

I thought we finished that shit off in the 70's..

[chrisa]

127. Anyone who believes in racial appropriation is a segregationist and instant racist.

Nobody is "stealing hip hop." What a joke.

[VScott]

154. Why would anyone want to "steal" it?

The whole genre is a joke.

The majority of it is autotuned and/or lip synced on recordings and live performances by both black and white
performers.

[cyberswede]

197. Oh...you're back.

Yay.

[uppityperson]

198. did you check out the edit?

Happy holidays to you cyberswede, may your lefsa stay soft (or is it only Norwegian?)

[cyberswede]

203. I missed the edit. *grump*

I love lefse (I'm 1/4 Norweigan); my Swedish grandmother made lefse, or Swedish tunnbröd, which is similar, I think.

[uppityperson]

204. he edited to add the message body vs just title, to make sure it was hideable

I grew up amidst German and Norwegians, now miss the different cookies and pastries.

[cyberswede]

208. Oh...then I did see the edit...

with the racist comment. Lovely that.

One of my favorite things is Swedish rice pudding, but my spouse & kids don't like it, so I rarely make it.

[uppityperson]

209. how do you make it? as kids we liked cold rice with milk, sugar, cinnamon for breakfast, it got

to be a continuing family joke about serving weird leftovers cold with milk and sugar for breakfast.

[cyberswede]

212. We ate that for breakfast! My mom added raisins & served it hot.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

254. So you're a Dan Snyder fan, who thinks redface on football fans is just 'honoring' Native Americans?

Racial appropriation exists, and the racists pretend it doesn't, while those who are anti-racism call them out for it.

[Gravitycollapse]

280. You shouldn't use words you cannot define.

[chrisa]

281. lol

[Gravitycollapse]

282. If you don't know what it means to be a segregationist or racist...

You should refrain from passive aggressively accusing others of being one. Especially since you rather ironically are promoting benevolent racism through racial and cultural "colorblindness." Race is a social construct that has an immense web of consequence.

Just because I define the terms of an racist authoritarian system does not mean I endorse the status quo. Rather the opposite, I am defining the structure of the system in order to subvert it.

[ErikJ]

129. I like Iggy POP

[johnp3907]

346. Heard this song in the car a while back.

My wife said "I didn't know he did a version of this." She thought it was a Siouxsie & the Banshees song.

[frylock]

130. the Beastie Boys 'Paul's Boutique' is widely regarded as one of the greatest hip-hop albums..

of ALL TIME. so yes, it's perfectly acceptable.

[NaturalHigh]

133. I kind of like Iggy Azalea's response in the article.

Upon hearing of the interview, Iggy Azalea responded on Twitter. “You created your own unfortunate situation by being a bigot and don't have the mental capacity to realize yet,” she wrote. “Probably never will. Now! rant, Make it racial! make it political! Make it whatever but I guarantee it won't make you likable & THATS why ur crying on the radio. Enjoy continuing to bang your head against that metaphoric brick wall & Savor this attention. I'm the only way you get ANY.”

[Spider Jerusalem]

138. Because of course hip-hop has never, ever had anything at all to do with race or politics.

[EX500rider]

224. Was a pretty good slap down i thought also...

[workinclasszero]

134. I wish somebody would steal hip hop and hide it away forever

[madville]

145. Then do it better than her

If her fans like it and spend their cash on her stuff that's all that really matters. She's basically performing a character and it seems pretty popular.

[fishwax]

147. I don't see Banks or anyone else saying white ppl shouldn't be hip hop artists

[flvegan]

148. Acceptable? You mean like the Beastie Boys?

Already done. Next question?

[Jamaal510]

153. Iggy's music

Last edited Fri Dec 26, 2014, 04:43 AM - Edit history (3)

is more like hip-POP, rather than hip-hop. IA is attractive, but her songs seem to consist of just a few catchy words thrown in a beat--stuff that is suitable for a club scene, essentially. She's not the only mainstream rapper whose songs are like this, either. There are many like her, and I guess much of the more lyrical hip-hop has gone underground for over the past decade...
With regards to IA changing her talk during her songs to give herself a "blaccent", I just think that is one of the damndest things I have ever seen. She comes off as a fake by continuing to rap like that, rather than in her natural accent. I also think it's strange how similar her name and Azealia Banks' name are. She couldn't have at least picked a different color to name herself after?

[EX500rider]

225. "I also think it's strange how similar her name and Azealia Banks' name are."

She took her stage name from the name of her childhood dog, Iggy, and the street she grew up on, Azalea Street, where her family lives to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iggy_Azalea

[dilby]

155. Personally I think they both sound like crap.

But others happen to like their music and I think the real problem is one is mad that the other is making a buck off of sounding black. If it were me, I would be happy she was making a buck because it brings in consumers and if a consumer likes A then there is a good chance they will like B who sounds a lot like A. Instead of fighting one another about a sound that is selling they should be celebrating that their art is popular right now.

[Capt. Obvious]

158. It's acceptable if they're talented

Iggy is fucking atrocious. My daughter makes me listen to that shit in the car.

And how is that fucking hip hop?

[joeglow3]

193. Who determines talent?

Based on fans, awards and success, it appears your view is in the minority.

[Capt. Obvious]

194. Yes, I'm outnumbered by preteens

You're quite perceptive.

[joeglow3]

195. I am right there with you

Never even heard of her until this thread. I just don't walk around arrogantly thinking I am the decider of all in this world.

[Capt. Obvious]

201. If you have this playing every day in the car

you'd change your tune.

[joeglow3]

206. And my parents said that about Pearl jam, Nirvana, sound garden and Alice in chains

Their parents said the same thing about Rolling Stones and beetles. All this means is you are old 😄

[Capt. Obvious]

211. I am old

but Eminem = good.
Iggy = bad.

[joeglow3]

217. I must be older

NWA: good
Eninem: bad.

[Violet_Crumble]

298. This 'old' parent was saying that about Hanson, S club 7 and the Spice Girls...

That was until someone came along and said to me: 'Yr just one of those oldies who doesn't appreciate music from the young, upcoming generation. You with yr insistence on playing Pearl Jam, Mudhoney and Alice in Chains in the car need to move on out of the way for Hanson, Spice Girls and S club 7. They and Vanilla Ice are the spiritual forerunners of the future Iggy Azalea. Respect the bland forever!'

[BumRushDaShow]

213. I had it playing everyday in the car

thanks to the 8-year old set (young niece shuttled to summer day camp for 6 weeks and when she was with her friends).

I figured they would like this better and they did (at least once they saw the video) -

[EX500rider]

227. Actually tying a record set by the Beatles is pretty impressive..

Azalea featured on Ariana Grande's single "Problem", which rose to number two on the Hot 100, the same week "Fancy" topped the chart, Azalea joined The Beatles as the only acts to rank at numbers one and two simultaneously with their first two Hot 100 hits.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

256. That's a good question.

And I think in part it's answered by the fact that there are award shows whose winners are based on 'fan volume' and those whose winners are selected by people who actually spend significant parts of their lives studying and working in the given art form, because they know that there are a whole heck of a lot of people out there whose idea of 'quality entertainment' is 'Honey Boo Boo' or 'Duck Dynasty'...or Iggy Azalea.

Ie, just because something's popular doesn't actually mean it's any good, and one of the best ways to make lots of money is actually to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[joeglow3]

260. Those programs u list are small niche programs

More accurate comparisons would be CSI and Big Bang Theory.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

262. That works too.

The point is that there's always been distinctions between technical merit and popular taste.

[joeglow3]

295. There have also always been distinctions between young and "old" parents.

[JustAnotherGen]

161. OP - see this post re lies America tells itself about black women

Xchrom posted it this morning. Would be interested to read your thoughts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026005589

At the end of the day - we have bigger issues navigating this inherently racist society that dismisses us as head snapping "axing" Jezebels- than this no count "product" who has not one fuck to give about us. Can you blame her? She's a millionaire. She's laughing all the way to the banks-es.

[_Blue_]

169. Haters gonna hate.

[Bradical79]

172. White people? yes.

Iggy Azalea? I don't know, I'm not familiar with her yet beyond internet posts about her :-P

But white people have been heavily involved in rap since the beginning. Beastie Boys, Blondie, Queen...

[CrispyQ]

178. Why not?

Just think if Jimi Hendrix had never played rock & roll on an electric guitar, what we would have missed out on.

[MelungeonWoman]

179. Wow! A person who has spent

the last 1/3 of her life in the deep south sounds like she's from the deep south when she raps?

GTFO.

[dawg]

339. I have spent *all* of my life in the deep south.

I've never heard anyone who sounded like Iggy Azalea sounds when she's doing her cartoonish "black woman" voice.

[gollygee]

342. This is how she sounds when she speaks

She is putting on a cartoonish version of an African American southern style of speech. This does not come naturally to her.

[bravenak]

352. Right?!?nt

[bigwillq]

183. Yes

Folks are free to sing in whatever style they choose.

[phil89]

196. "Artist" lol

Nt

[True Blue Door]

200. If the quote is accurate (never a given), then Banks does not understand music.

I doubt she has any compunctions about using music technology invented in Japan, samples from songs by artists of any given race, and musical methods innovated by artists who were not black.

Sounds like just another idiot pop star who wouldn't know music from diarrhea if it garnered the same applause.

[Warpy]

232. There is only one question that has to be asked: "Is s/he any good?"

and the fans are the people who have to answer that question.

But here comes the Torygraph with yet another fake division to keep us all fighting over crumbs while the plutocracy robs us blind.

[Iggo]

237. Eric Clapton.

[sweetloukillbot]

273. Clapton's got bigger problems...

Racist fuck... From a concert in 1976 or 77...
"Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I'm into racism. It's much heavier, man. Fucking wogs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans and fucking (indecipherable) don't belong here, we don't want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don't want any black wogs and coons living here."

[truebrit71]

344. Source?

n/t

[sweetloukillbot]

345. Here he is complaining about loss of English identity....

[sweetloukillbot]

347. And here's a story with the quote and citations

http://samuel-warde.com/2013/05/eric-claptons-racist-rant/

And Tom Robinson talking about the foundation of Rock Against Racism after Clapton's rant went public...
http://www.tomrobinson.com/trb/rar.htm

He doubled down in an interview about 10 years ago as well. Supporting Enoch Powell, talking about refusing to apologize for his comments when given the opportunity.

Stormfront seems to like him too, but I'm not going to link to that.

His excuse seems to be "I was drunk at the time" which is a cop out. Fuck him.

[XemaSab]

358. "I was too drunk to censor myself"

n/t

[U4ikLefty]

272. What about this?

[MisterP]

278. Iggy's been quite gross, but rap/hip-hop aren't giving their beats back to the Art of Noise anytime

[AgingAmerican]

284. Racists just can't help themselves

Haters gonna hate.

[orpupilofnature57]

302. Chris Lilley explains the problem fully in ' Angry Boy's '

[NCTraveler]

303. "White hip hop artist under fire"

Change that to "Black hip hop artist Azealia trying to stay relevant and in the news"

[bravenak]

313. Iggy has been getting flack for a while.

T.I. has been begging black rappers to be nice to her and stop calling her fake. So, it got worse. She is fake.

[hatrack]

325. Is it acceptable for white people to play jazz? Or for black people to play classical?

It's music, for crying out loud. It . . . moves around, and it's open to anybody who's interested.

[Everything Sucks]

337. That's not really the issue.

The issue is that Iggy Azalea is from small-town rural Australia, and yet . . .

[Sunlei]

330. anyones free to 'make music & try to sell it' Iggy is not a decent musician anyway.

funny about the similar flower names though

[Veruca Salt]

341. While I normally wouldn't wade into this mess

My first instinct on hearing she's Australian is that she suffers from what all non Americans do in regards to black history. The fact she isn't american.

I'm an expat now and it has constantly shocked me how tone deaf and ignorant non Americans are of american culture. Though in a way it is to be expected. They don't have the first idea what is and isn't culturally acceptable in US society and what can be construed as racist or bigoted.

And that isn't an excuse but as Americans we view everything from our own cultural prism and attribute american views/culture to foreigners who don't share it.

On edit: after reading the article and then the comments (particularly in the comments you can see the non american mindset in action)... Welcome to the globalisation of hip hop.

[redgreenandblue]

377. The world doesn't revolve around America.nt

[Veruca Salt]

411. Yup, exactly.

And I think we'll only see more of this in the future. I can't name how many times I've listened to buskers over here affecting american accents only at the end of their act to revert right back to their natural accent.

[truebrit71]

343. First time I heard her i thought she was taking the piss..

And the more I hear her, the more convinced I become. I am seriously surprised she hasn't had her ass kicked yet. .

To put it in context, it would be like Louis CK doing his routine, but in the manner of Richard Prior, or Eddie Murphy.

It's an act, and black artists have a right to be pissed off about it imho.

[cyberswede]

362. Tick tock... nt

[cyberswede]

364. Hee! Dazzling repartee!

[cyberswede]

368. ...yet cravenly self-delete.

Way to stand by what you write.

[cyberswede]

374. Why on earth would I do that?

[octoberlib]

360. This article was correct in comparing Iggy Azalea to a minstrel show.

I couldn't even get through her video. It's shit.



I just watched one of Banks' videos and she's got it all over Iggy talent-wise.

[VScott]

407. Talent?

It's all/both auto-tuned, commercialized crap anyways.

[mstinamotorcity2]

395. Is this like

Elizabeth Taylor playing Cleopatra

[joeglow3]

413. AB looks to be one fucked up person

From Wikipedia:

"Banks has been known for engaging in Twitter feuds.[67][68] Banks has had feuds with Iggy Azalea, T.I., Tameka "Tiny" Cottle-Harris, Kreayshawn, Dominique Young Unique, Lil' Kim, Nicki Minaj, Jim Jones, Angel Haze, Action Bronson, Baauer, Rita Ora, A$AP Rocky, Lily Allen, Lady Gaga, Pharrell, Perez Hilton, and Eminem.[69]"

There is one common theme here...AB. She appears to be an attention seeking person.

[JEFF9K]

428. People will vote with their dollars.

[DCBob]

433. I dont think her success has anything to do with racism or mimicry.

She is simply fun to listen to.

[gollygee]

435. People had a lot of fun going to minstrel shows too. n/t

[DCBob]

436. For clearly different reasons..

Those shows were meant to make fun of and demean people of color. Iggy performance is nothing like that... its just good music and people enjoy it. Get over it,

[gollygee]

437. I don't know

Minstrel shows were made up of people who played stereotyped versions of African American music and put on fake cartoonish stereotyped African American speech styles. The biggest difference is that they also wore blackface.

[DCBob]

438. I suspect very few fans of Iggy ever think of the racial aspect you are claiming here.

I think its just sounds fun to them and not because its demeaning to African Americans. Clearly she gets some added attention from the fact she is cute and white but its not in any sort of racist way... imo.

[gollygee]

439. She gets more attention because she's white

Yeah that's the whole point. How can that possibly be "not in a racial way." It's by definition racial.

[DCBob]

440. Racial not racist.

There is a difference.

[gollygee]

441. Maybe but not in this case.

I'm sure people aren't intending racism when they buy her stuff, but her choice to market herself in the way she does, with the cartoonish, stereotyped, and therefore racist style of speech, is indeed racist.

[DCBob]

442. I think she is simply copying a music style that is very popular and profitable.

I doubt she has any intent to demean or insult African Americans in any way. I can sort of understand how you might see it that way but I think you are wrong.

[brooklynite]

443. A complaint by ONE performer constitutes "under fire"?