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Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:39 AM

 

Just to be clear, Garner was not killed due to taxation, he was killed because he was black

i am not sure what all these anti tax memes are, but taxes is not how and why he died. conflating the two is appropriate for worldnetdaily but not for DU.


Also just to clarify, i believe conflation occurs when you raise an unrelated issue into the middle of another issue. So for instance, talking about black on black crime in the middle of a conversation on racism, raising the issue of OJ when Warren was not indicted, and taxes when talking about Garner.

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Reply Just to be clear, Garner was not killed due to taxation, he was killed because he was black (Original post)
La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2014 OP
FSogol Dec 2014 #1
DonViejo Dec 2014 #10
FSogol Dec 2014 #11
arcane1 Dec 2014 #22
bullwinkle428 Dec 2014 #2
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #13
arcane1 Dec 2014 #23
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #26
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #35
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #38
still_one Dec 2014 #3
yeoman6987 Dec 2014 #4
marym625 Dec 2014 #5
Ykcutnek Dec 2014 #6
djean111 Dec 2014 #9
etherealtruth Dec 2014 #7
joeybee12 Dec 2014 #8
LanternWaste Dec 2014 #12
nichomachus Dec 2014 #14
RoccoR5955 Dec 2014 #16
Blue_Tires Dec 2014 #15
Kahuna Dec 2014 #17
subterranean Dec 2014 #21
arcane1 Dec 2014 #25
Quayblue Dec 2014 #18
KMOD Dec 2014 #19
MrScorpio Dec 2014 #20
Odin2005 Dec 2014 #24
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #27
La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2014 #28
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #31
LanternWaste Dec 2014 #34
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #37
morningfog Dec 2014 #40
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #42
morningfog Dec 2014 #45
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #46
morningfog Dec 2014 #49
nomorenomore08 Dec 2014 #43
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #47
nomorenomore08 Dec 2014 #48
RandiFan1290 Dec 2014 #29
stage left Dec 2014 #30
AverageJoe90 Dec 2014 #32
nomorenomore08 Dec 2014 #44
Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #33
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #39
stevenleser Dec 2014 #36
JaneyVee Dec 2014 #41

Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:42 AM

1. Agreed. These anti-tax memes are directly from Rand Paul. A lot of closet libertarians are outing

themselves today.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:54 AM

10. Rand Paul was peddling this dung last night...

Rand Paul just wrecked his ’16 campaign: Watch his awful Eric Garner answer

-snip-

Appearing on MSNBC’s “Hardball” shortly after a Staten Island grand jury declined to prosecute the cop who choked Eric Garner to death, on suspicion that Garner was selling loose cigarettes, Paul shamed himself, badly:

Well you know I think it’s hard not to watch that video of him saying ‘I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe’ and not be horrified by it. But I think there’s something bigger than the individual circumstances. Obviously, the individual circumstances are important. But I think it is also important to know that some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes so that driven cigarettes underground by making them so expensive. But then some politician also had to direct the police to say, ‘hey we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette.’ And for someone to die over breaking that law, there really is no excuse for it. But I do blame the politicians. We put our police in a difficult situation with bad laws.

-snip-

http://www.salon.com/2014/12/04/rand_paul%E2%80%99s_terrible_night_he_wrecks_his_2016_campaign_with_an_awful_eric_garner_answer/

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Response to DonViejo (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:56 AM

11. Yup and his low-wattage-brained minions are promoting it on DU today. n/t

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Response to DonViejo (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:12 PM

22. "I blame politicians for police using banned choke-holds to kill people"

 

Yeah, that makes perfect sense Rand

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:45 AM

2. It's a way for right-wingers to obfuscate, and draw attention away from the

real issues of inherent racism in law enforcement and how it's implemented in hyper-aggressive manner.

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:59 AM

13. It's a twofer ...

 

it draws attention away from the evident racism in America AND allows those NOT wanting to have that discussion, a "solution" sounding thing ... that will further degrade government revenue.

It's a win/win ... for my opposition!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:13 PM

23. And since he's republican, the "solution" to racist police violence is... a tax cut!

 

Parody is officially dead.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:20 PM

26. Is there a physical movement he could have done that would have signaled surrender to

the cops?

I saw a man hold his hands up as in please dont touch me but I am in no way threatening you, and they killed him anyway.

The idea that taxes or politicians had anything to do with this is absurd, this cop, like many others, thinks he is god like and hates AfAm people.

period

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Response to NoJusticeNoPeace (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 04:47 PM

35. Other than contracting a severe case of vitiligo ...

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 05:50 PM

38. Now THAT is funny...not really given the context but that is funny, Chris Rock could

use that in his routine.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:46 AM

3. I am not sure what specific posts you are talking about, but most of the posts that I have read that

mention that "people should not be executed for taxation", are not talking about taxation, but racism. The same thing in Missouri for "jay walking", it isn't about jay walking, they are being sarcastic, it is about racism, and they know it, at least here on DU that is the case

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:46 AM

4. It is part of talking about the case

 

Nobody I have seen is blaming taxes. We are ensuring this same situation does not happen again. How we can prevent it from happening again is a good discussion or it will keep happening and nobody wants that. Nobody is anti tax either, but when taxes cost more then a pack of cigarettes in North Carolina well then you may have some who will travel to buy them in NC. And if you are needing to make a living to feed your kids you may have to sell then in New York since costs are prohibitive.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:46 AM

5. BRAVA!

K&R

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:47 AM

6. That's why right-wingers care about this case.

 

Not because an unarmed black man was killed, but because of why he was killed.

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Response to Ykcutnek (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:51 AM

9. Do they understand that the taxes part was just an excuse?

 

That he was killed because he was black? The tax issue was the permission to manhandle/kill a black person, that's all.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:51 AM

7. The anti tax memes are serving as a distraction

.... sadly the distraction works for many (not necessarily speaking about DU .... but the populace as a whole). when posting at DU hopefully we can all start to recognize that this side discussion detracts from the issue of Americans of color being discriminated against and targeted and brutalized (killed) by the police.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:51 AM

8. Agree...knr

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 11:59 AM

12. The anti-tax trope began yesterday after Rand Paul spoke of it. The tropes on DU began shortly after

The anti-tax trope began yesterday after Rand Paul spoke of it. The tropes on DU began shortly afterward. Seems rather the coincidence, yes? Also, as there is no supporting evidence given that specifically points to the validity of that trope, I'm of the opinion that a few libertarians took a left a Schenectady and wound up on DU.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 12:13 PM

14. Wingnuts are changing their tune

They're now saying that the cops were justified because he was selling cigarettes laden with PCP.

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Response to nichomachus (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 12:20 PM

16. Perhaps some of those cops

 

are, themselves, smoking PCP!

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 12:18 PM

15. kicked

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 01:00 PM

17. Exactly. The cigarettes weren't untaxed. When Garner bought them, he paid substantial taxes on them.

What was he supposed to do, collect taxes on loosies? It's amazing how the media serves as stenographers and repeat any meme they put forth without question.v

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Response to Kahuna (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:02 PM

21. Did he buy them in New York?

I was thinking maybe the cigarettes were bought in another state with lower taxes. But if he did in fact buy them in New York and pay the New York state tax on them, then it's even more ridiculous that the police would bust him for this.

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Response to subterranean (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:15 PM

25. I read somewhere that he was buying them in Virginia, where the tax is lower.

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 01:10 PM

18. people don't like the discomfort of dehumanization

it makes them have to look deep inside themselves; self-reflection/critique seem to not be traits of racists.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 01:14 PM

19. Agreed! He was killed because he was black, and Mr. Garner

 

dared to question why the police we harassing him.

For that, the police felt he needed to be forcefully detained. Forceful enough to kill him.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 01:47 PM

20. Damn Skippy!

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:15 PM

24. All the idiots spouting that BS should be assumed to be Freeper trolls.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:27 PM

27. He was killed because roided up cops were looking for a victim

 

and he looked like someone who couldn't fight back or make them suffer any consequences for their actions

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:52 PM

28. no, it's because he was black.

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 03:42 PM

31. No it wasn't

 

Plenty of other black people on that street who didn't get murdered by cops.

It may surprise you to learn that of the entire set of people murdered by cops in this country, most were white.

Focusing on his race distracts from the real problem which is that cops can murder anyone and get away with it. It's as if the real problem you have here is that the cops were white and not that they are murderers.

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 04:44 PM

34. You'll of course, supply us with objective, peer-reviewed sources to validate your allegation, yes?

"of the entire set of people murdered by cops in this country, most were white. .."

You'll of course, supply us with objective, peer-reviewed sources to validate your allegation, yes?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 05:14 PM

37. Yeah sure

 

Let me talk to Kelly Thomas, I think he published a paper on it while his white self was being murdered by the cops.

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 06:25 PM

40. Compared to the racial make of the population,

 

cops kill blacks disproportionately.

And, this is important, of the unarmed people killed by cops, most are black males. In other words, many of the white people killed were armed and many were attacking the cop.

Cops shouldn't be killing anyone, but you are lying or worse if you say this problem is not about race.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 07:08 PM

42. I'm not disputing that

 

Apparently there's no such thing as a problem that affects everyone yet also affects black people disproportionately. At least according to the feedback that I'm getting here.

I don't see why the concept of it being everyone's problem is all that difficult to deal with. This isn't the 1960s anymore. Making it a primarily racial issue is divide-and-conquer stuff that assures no solution will be had.

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 07:53 PM

45. You must be white.

 

It's easy for a white man to say it isn't about race.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 09:04 PM

46. What's with the burning desire to prevent a solution here?

 

By insisting that it's a race issue, you are standing in the doorway preventing a solution to the police violence issue.

It doesn't matter if you're wrong or right. What matters is that you're being staggeringly divisive and making sure that there's no way for people of all colors to come together to solve the problem.

It's as if you'd rather the problem continue, because taking umbrage is more important than actually resolving it.

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 10:47 PM

49. If you can't join the reality that this is a race problem, that is your problem.

 

If you refuse to acknowledge that you are not doing anything to solve the problem. You are part of the problem.

You are preventing yourself from join people of all colors coming together. Not me.

What you are suggesting is no different, identical to, denying white privilege and racism.

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 07:12 PM

43. Maybe they can "murder anyone," but it's easier to get away with when the victim is black.

Because black people are scary and dangerous, don't you know...

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 09:06 PM

47. True

 

Doesn't change the fact that the central issue is police violence against all citizens, rather than a problem exclusively experienced by black people (and thus implying that white people don't need to worry about it).

If it's just a black problem, it won't be solved.

If it's an everyone problem we can get together and put a stop to it.

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 09:31 PM

48. If people realize they have a common interest RE: working against injustice, then they're

more likely to try and do something. I agree with that much, certainly.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 02:57 PM

29. RW Radio

Glenn and Rush were talking about the taxes today.

That is why the trolls are bringing it up today, instead of yesterday when Rand had mentioned it.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 03:07 PM

30. Taxes were just the excuse the cops used.

He was killed because he was black.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 03:48 PM

32. Well.....I honestly can't say for sure whether or not.....

 

race played a factor in the incident itself, per se(I wouldn't rule it out, but there's no conclusive proof either way). But, with that aside, there are indeed some valid questions raised about how the justice system handled it; unfortunately, we all know what happened in Ferguson this last week and a half ago.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 07:20 PM

44. I can't guarantee, but I can say with some degree of certainty, that a white Eric Garner would still

be alive. On the other hand, I'm virtually 100% sure that the court system wouldn't have handled this in such a cavalier, dismissive way. Getting away with murder is generally quite easy for a cop, but even easier when the victim is a black male.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 04:08 PM

33. Agreed.

I have no problem with New York City having restrictions against untaxed cigarettes.

However, I think a wise course of action for the police coming across someone selling untaxed cigarettes would be to write them a ticket and give them a court date if they want to fight it in court. Not--I don't know--placing them in a chokehold and suffocating them to death.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 06:11 PM

39. No ...

 

The NYPD's approach was to hire a former Chief from L.A. (another bastion of positive community/police relations) to institute the "Broke Window" strategy, where small offenses are met with an aggressive response, thereby discouraging people from committing more serious crimes.

Because arresting and prosecuting someone for jay-walking, totally tamped down gang activity in L.A.

{Yes ... being sarcastic}

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 04:50 PM

36. Agreed. I can't take seriously anyone who advances that idiotic cigarettes taxation meme.

 

"He shouldn't have been trying to do something wrong with untaxed cigarettes and therefore deserves..."

wtf is that. Do people know how dumb they sound?

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 06:29 PM

41. PREACH!

 

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