HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Obamacare Architect: ‘Lac...

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 06:49 PM

Obamacare Architect: ‘Lack of Transparency’ Helped Us Pass the Law

H/T Mediaite, basically the newest viral right wing outrage of the day. The author transcribed the video that's a 53-second clip of a longer video of MIT Prof. Jonathan Gruber speaking the 2013 UPenn Health Economists' Conference:

This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If (Congressional Budget Office) scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in -– you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money — it would not have passed… Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter, or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass. And it’s the second-best argument. Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.


More info about Gruber's Obamacare & Romneycare work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Gruber_%28economist%29#Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

Searching for Gruber's name in DU, I found plenty of big threads about him. Do you consider these statements problematic? (Edit) Found full video of the 2013 seminar...Go to 20:00 mark for the remarks quoted above

37 replies, 3428 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Obamacare Architect: ‘Lack of Transparency’ Helped Us Pass the Law (Original post)
alp227 Nov 2014 OP
branford Nov 2014 #1
merrily Nov 2014 #2
PeteSelman Nov 2014 #3
Brigid Nov 2014 #4
Hoyt Nov 2014 #7
simak Nov 2014 #8
Hoyt Nov 2014 #11
simak Nov 2014 #13
Brigid Nov 2014 #9
Hoyt Nov 2014 #10
Brigid Nov 2014 #14
Hoyt Nov 2014 #15
Brigid Nov 2014 #16
Hoyt Nov 2014 #20
Brigid Nov 2014 #22
Hoyt Nov 2014 #23
historylovr Nov 2014 #35
stevenleser Nov 2014 #34
still_one Nov 2014 #26
simak Nov 2014 #5
Ink Man Nov 2014 #27
malokvale77 Nov 2014 #6
pnwmom Nov 2014 #31
malokvale77 Nov 2014 #36
global1 Nov 2014 #12
nationalize the fed Nov 2014 #17
nationalize the fed Nov 2014 #18
simak Nov 2014 #19
woo me with science Nov 2014 #21
Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #24
woo me with science Nov 2014 #25
Octafish Nov 2014 #28
Recursion Nov 2014 #29
maced666 Dec 2014 #37
pnwmom Nov 2014 #30
6000eliot Nov 2014 #32
IADEMO2004 Nov 2014 #33

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 06:53 PM

1. They statements in the video are certainly not helpful and are a little embarrassing.

 

However, given the already low approval of the PPACA, I doubt it will make much of a difference politically. More importantly, they should have little to no effect on any legal challenges

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 06:54 PM

2. 2000 page bill, poorly written, and deliberate lack of transparency by the government we pay for.

Yeah, stupid voters.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:01 PM

3. I don't see how this is on the voters.

We didn't get to vote on this monstrosity.

This guy is a turd either way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:07 PM

4. I don't know about transparency.

All I do know is that it did not include anything for me: No single-payer, no public option, and Pence the Dense was allowed to not expand Medicaid. Bitter? Yes, guess I am.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:22 PM

7. You can't even be glad pre-existing conditions no longer apply, and millions

can now afford coverage or get Medicaid? I'm not directly impacted by ACA, but I'm very glad other people are helped and we have a platform to make improvements.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:29 PM

8. Then why didn't they sell it on that - instead of lying?

 

Your argument has a certain "end justifies the means" quality to it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to simak (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:50 PM

11. He didn't lie. Some things might not have gone as he, or we, wish.. But that

is not a lie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:04 PM

13. Sorry. I guess I misunderstood the video about how stupid voters are...

 

and all the things they couldn't tell voters about the bill because then it wouldn't have passed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:40 PM

9. If you believe that people like myself will ever benefit from ACA . . .

I have a lovely bridge to sell you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:49 PM

10. I care that lots of people benefit. If you don't, I'm sorry.

But there has been very little legislation that benefits everyone. Fact is, ACA benefits a lot of peiple, even those on Medicare and Medicaid. I think that is good.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:15 PM

14. This is something that should have been for everyone.

I.don't think you understand the sense of disappointment and betrayal I feel about this issue. As usual, single people, especially those without children, were left out. I think I am allowed to want something for myself for a change.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:19 PM

15. What did you expect?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:23 PM

16. Two words:

Single payer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 10:33 PM

20. Wasn't going to happen at that point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 10:37 PM

22. It will *never* happen.

And that's what really stings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 11, 2014, 12:03 AM

23. Let's hope so, at least an option to buy into Medicare with subsidies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:13 PM

35. Exactly.

But by flaw or by design it doesn't really matter to those left out in the cold. They lose. Does it bother those who have health insurance they can afford that there are losers out there? I know it bothers me. Back to your point, I'm with you, this should have been for everyone. Why wasn't it? Why couldn't it be sold? For that matter, if we're mandated to buy health insurance, why not bundle optical and dental into it? But I digress. If the American people can be sold on the idea that the Khardasian family is worthy of celebrity status, why couldn't our leaders sell us on the idea that everyone should have basic health care? Not that it mattered in the end; tptb got what they wanted. Yet again.

This feels like yet another thing to divide us, in this case, those who have health insurance and can afford to use it, and those who either don't, or do and can't afford it. If you can't, you shouldn't have been born in a red state, or moved there for reasons beyond your control. And those who can only afford the Bronze plan and find it inadequate, well, you should have just ponied up for the Silver or Gold. And why can't you be happy for everyone who got it?

That bothers me as much as the fact that insurance companies are now more entrenched than ever in our health care system and that it would take a miracle to get them out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:33 PM

34. We're all already benefiting in one way or another. Whether its...

 

the price increase on insurance policies in and out of the exchange either falling to levels that are more in line with inflation or even going down, hospital prices feeling downward pressure, no pre-existing conditions, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:47 AM

26. +++++++++++

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:14 PM

5. I'm just glad the voters appreciate this was in their best interests.

 

It would be far more embarrassing if they handed our hats to us at the ballot box over antics like these.

People shouldn't get all hung up over little white lies. The important thing is that if you like your plan you can keep it. And that your healthcare costs will go down by $2500.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to simak (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:53 AM

27. Well said.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:16 PM

6. Wonderful representation we have in this country. LOL

I'm sure some people benefited from ACA. I don't begrudge them. I'm happy they got the insurance they need.

I just don't know any of those people. Every one I know will be penalized on their taxes and still have to depend on the county hospital. Which by the way, raised my tax bill this year.

I have to pick one day a week to fast as it is. Hey, maybe that keeps me healthy. Yay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malokvale77 (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:01 PM

31. I'm sorry if you live in a non-Medicaid expansion state, but that's not the fault of the ACA.

Otherwise, I can't think of why everyone you know will have to pay a penalty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 19, 2014, 09:41 PM

36. So many here keep praising Medicaid expansion...

Even if Texas had expanded it would be a bad situation. Texas like California will lien you for every penny. They will go so far as to take child support payments.

Edit to add: Everyone I know makes too little to buy on the exchange, but too much to not be penalized.

I'm sorry all of you folks in other states don't get it. I'm going to lose part of my tax return (that I can ill afford) to help all of you get yours.

At least my county taxes allow me the use of it's services. The Federal Mandate does not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:51 PM

12. Wasn't The Template For This Law RomneyCare?.....nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:34 PM

17. The Heritage Foundation was the root of both evils

The health insurance mandate in the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is an idea hatched in 1989 by Stuart M. Butler at Heritage in a publication titled "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans". This was also the model for Mitt Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation#Policy_influence


Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans
Stuart M Butler, Heritage Foundation

2) Mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance. Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seatbelts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have li a bility insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement. This mandate is based on two important principles. First, that health care protection is a responsibility of individuals, not businesses. Thus to the extent that anybody should be required to provide coverage to a family, the household mandate assumes that it is the family that carries the first responsibility. Second, it assumes that there is an implicit contract between households and society, based on the notion that health insurance is not like other forms of insurance protection.

If a young man wrecks his Porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not h e has insurance. If we find that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance...

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans


Max Baucus (D-MT) who is now US Ambassador to China, didn't help--

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:38 PM

18. Maybe one day people will get tired of being treated like 4 year olds

and maybe not

Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage


If the Democrats do it, it's a good thing. But if Republicans do it, it's a bad thing.
No wonder punk pieces of filth like this gruber character treat people like 4 year olds.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 10:21 PM

19. Nice choice of quotes. I saw the same line.

 

A huge political advantage? Over whom? An unwitting public? It's sickeningly condescending.

Propeller-heads like Gruber used to demonstrate common good benefits to their policies. They've gotten lazy or arrogant, or both, when they hide the truth from us because we supposedly can't be trusted with it. This superior attitude has "overlord" written all over it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 10:35 PM

21. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Tue Nov 11, 2014, 12:07 AM

24. Yet complain about Obamacare here and you get pilloried.


The main architect calls Americans stupid and says they HAD to lie to get it done, but somehow it's still GRRRRRREAT legislation. Would love for someone to work that one out for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:35 AM

25. kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:58 AM

28. Ha ha. It is to laugh. At integrity.

Like the tee vee guy said: It's for paupers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:59 AM

29. This video was available a year and a half ago

Hmm....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 09:31 PM

37. EXACTLY. Where are the 'journalists'?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:59 AM

30. Proving that absolute adherence to "transparency" isn't always a good thing.

We know that the phrase "new tax" is the kiss of death to even the most well-intentioned and important bill.

So if there is something else to call it, like a "mandate," then fine. Call it something else -- that doesn't scare away more than half the legislators who will have to explain their votes for it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:03 PM

32. People on DEMOCRATIC Underground are still flogging this horseshit?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:28 PM

33. Well played Fox/GOP. Bumper sticker attack that needs two page rebuttal no one reads.

Advantage billionaires and screw the health care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread