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alp227

(32,007 posts)
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 06:49 PM Nov 2014

Obamacare Architect: ‘Lack of Transparency’ Helped Us Pass the Law

H/T Mediaite, basically the newest viral right wing outrage of the day. The author transcribed the video that's a 53-second clip of a longer video of MIT Prof. Jonathan Gruber speaking the 2013 UPenn Health Economists' Conference:

This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If (Congressional Budget Office) scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in -– you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money — it would not have passed… Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter, or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass. And it’s the second-best argument. Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.


More info about Gruber's Obamacare & Romneycare work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Gruber_%28economist%29#Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

Searching for Gruber's name in DU, I found plenty of big threads about him. Do you consider these statements problematic? (Edit) Found full video of the 2013 seminar...Go to 20:00 mark for the remarks quoted above

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Obamacare Architect: ‘Lack of Transparency’ Helped Us Pass the Law (Original Post) alp227 Nov 2014 OP
They statements in the video are certainly not helpful and are a little embarrassing. branford Nov 2014 #1
2000 page bill, poorly written, and deliberate lack of transparency by the government we pay for. merrily Nov 2014 #2
I don't see how this is on the voters. PeteSelman Nov 2014 #3
I don't know about transparency. Brigid Nov 2014 #4
You can't even be glad pre-existing conditions no longer apply, and millions Hoyt Nov 2014 #7
Then why didn't they sell it on that - instead of lying? simak Nov 2014 #8
He didn't lie. Some things might not have gone as he, or we, wish.. But that Hoyt Nov 2014 #11
Sorry. I guess I misunderstood the video about how stupid voters are... simak Nov 2014 #13
If you believe that people like myself will ever benefit from ACA . . . Brigid Nov 2014 #9
I care that lots of people benefit. If you don't, I'm sorry. Hoyt Nov 2014 #10
This is something that should have been for everyone. Brigid Nov 2014 #14
What did you expect? Hoyt Nov 2014 #15
Two words: Brigid Nov 2014 #16
Wasn't going to happen at that point. Hoyt Nov 2014 #20
It will *never* happen. Brigid Nov 2014 #22
Let's hope so, at least an option to buy into Medicare with subsidies. Hoyt Nov 2014 #23
Exactly. historylovr Nov 2014 #35
We're all already benefiting in one way or another. Whether its... stevenleser Nov 2014 #34
+++++++++++ still_one Nov 2014 #26
I'm just glad the voters appreciate this was in their best interests. simak Nov 2014 #5
Well said. Ink Man Nov 2014 #27
Wonderful representation we have in this country. LOL malokvale77 Nov 2014 #6
I'm sorry if you live in a non-Medicaid expansion state, but that's not the fault of the ACA. pnwmom Nov 2014 #31
So many here keep praising Medicaid expansion... malokvale77 Nov 2014 #36
Wasn't The Template For This Law RomneyCare?.....nt global1 Nov 2014 #12
The Heritage Foundation was the root of both evils nationalize the fed Nov 2014 #17
Maybe one day people will get tired of being treated like 4 year olds nationalize the fed Nov 2014 #18
Nice choice of quotes. I saw the same line. simak Nov 2014 #19
K&R woo me with science Nov 2014 #21
Yet complain about Obamacare here and you get pilloried. Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #24
kick woo me with science Nov 2014 #25
Ha ha. It is to laugh. At integrity. Octafish Nov 2014 #28
This video was available a year and a half ago Recursion Nov 2014 #29
EXACTLY. Where are the 'journalists'? maced666 Dec 2014 #37
Proving that absolute adherence to "transparency" isn't always a good thing. pnwmom Nov 2014 #30
People on DEMOCRATIC Underground are still flogging this horseshit? 6000eliot Nov 2014 #32
Well played Fox/GOP. Bumper sticker attack that needs two page rebuttal no one reads. IADEMO2004 Nov 2014 #33
 

branford

(4,462 posts)
1. They statements in the video are certainly not helpful and are a little embarrassing.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 06:53 PM
Nov 2014

However, given the already low approval of the PPACA, I doubt it will make much of a difference politically. More importantly, they should have little to no effect on any legal challenges

merrily

(45,251 posts)
2. 2000 page bill, poorly written, and deliberate lack of transparency by the government we pay for.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 06:54 PM
Nov 2014

Yeah, stupid voters.


PeteSelman

(1,508 posts)
3. I don't see how this is on the voters.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:01 PM
Nov 2014

We didn't get to vote on this monstrosity.

This guy is a turd either way.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
4. I don't know about transparency.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:07 PM
Nov 2014

All I do know is that it did not include anything for me: No single-payer, no public option, and Pence the Dense was allowed to not expand Medicaid. Bitter? Yes, guess I am.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
7. You can't even be glad pre-existing conditions no longer apply, and millions
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:22 PM
Nov 2014

can now afford coverage or get Medicaid? I'm not directly impacted by ACA, but I'm very glad other people are helped and we have a platform to make improvements.

 

simak

(116 posts)
8. Then why didn't they sell it on that - instead of lying?
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:29 PM
Nov 2014

Your argument has a certain "end justifies the means" quality to it.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
11. He didn't lie. Some things might not have gone as he, or we, wish.. But that
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:50 PM
Nov 2014

is not a lie.

 

simak

(116 posts)
13. Sorry. I guess I misunderstood the video about how stupid voters are...
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:04 PM
Nov 2014

and all the things they couldn't tell voters about the bill because then it wouldn't have passed.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
9. If you believe that people like myself will ever benefit from ACA . . .
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:40 PM
Nov 2014

I have a lovely bridge to sell you.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
10. I care that lots of people benefit. If you don't, I'm sorry.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:49 PM
Nov 2014

But there has been very little legislation that benefits everyone. Fact is, ACA benefits a lot of peiple, even those on Medicare and Medicaid. I think that is good.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
14. This is something that should have been for everyone.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:15 PM
Nov 2014

I.don't think you understand the sense of disappointment and betrayal I feel about this issue. As usual, single people, especially those without children, were left out. I think I am allowed to want something for myself for a change.

historylovr

(1,557 posts)
35. Exactly.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:13 PM
Nov 2014

But by flaw or by design it doesn't really matter to those left out in the cold. They lose. Does it bother those who have health insurance they can afford that there are losers out there? I know it bothers me. Back to your point, I'm with you, this should have been for everyone. Why wasn't it? Why couldn't it be sold? For that matter, if we're mandated to buy health insurance, why not bundle optical and dental into it? But I digress. If the American people can be sold on the idea that the Khardasian family is worthy of celebrity status, why couldn't our leaders sell us on the idea that everyone should have basic health care? Not that it mattered in the end; tptb got what they wanted. Yet again.

This feels like yet another thing to divide us, in this case, those who have health insurance and can afford to use it, and those who either don't, or do and can't afford it. If you can't, you shouldn't have been born in a red state, or moved there for reasons beyond your control. And those who can only afford the Bronze plan and find it inadequate, well, you should have just ponied up for the Silver or Gold. And why can't you be happy for everyone who got it?

That bothers me as much as the fact that insurance companies are now more entrenched than ever in our health care system and that it would take a miracle to get them out.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
34. We're all already benefiting in one way or another. Whether its...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:33 PM
Nov 2014

the price increase on insurance policies in and out of the exchange either falling to levels that are more in line with inflation or even going down, hospital prices feeling downward pressure, no pre-existing conditions, etc.

 

simak

(116 posts)
5. I'm just glad the voters appreciate this was in their best interests.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:14 PM
Nov 2014

It would be far more embarrassing if they handed our hats to us at the ballot box over antics like these.

People shouldn't get all hung up over little white lies. The important thing is that if you like your plan you can keep it. And that your healthcare costs will go down by $2500.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
6. Wonderful representation we have in this country. LOL
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:16 PM
Nov 2014

I'm sure some people benefited from ACA. I don't begrudge them. I'm happy they got the insurance they need.

I just don't know any of those people. Every one I know will be penalized on their taxes and still have to depend on the county hospital. Which by the way, raised my tax bill this year.

I have to pick one day a week to fast as it is. Hey, maybe that keeps me healthy. Yay.

pnwmom

(108,960 posts)
31. I'm sorry if you live in a non-Medicaid expansion state, but that's not the fault of the ACA.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:01 PM
Nov 2014

Otherwise, I can't think of why everyone you know will have to pay a penalty.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
36. So many here keep praising Medicaid expansion...
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 09:41 PM
Nov 2014

Even if Texas had expanded it would be a bad situation. Texas like California will lien you for every penny. They will go so far as to take child support payments.

Edit to add: Everyone I know makes too little to buy on the exchange, but too much to not be penalized.

I'm sorry all of you folks in other states don't get it. I'm going to lose part of my tax return (that I can ill afford) to help all of you get yours.

At least my county taxes allow me the use of it's services. The Federal Mandate does not.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
17. The Heritage Foundation was the root of both evils
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:34 PM
Nov 2014
The health insurance mandate in the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is an idea hatched in 1989 by Stuart M. Butler at Heritage in a publication titled "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans". This was also the model for Mitt Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation#Policy_influence


Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans
Stuart M Butler, Heritage Foundation

2) Mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance. Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seatbelts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have li a bility insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement. This mandate is based on two important principles. First, that health care protection is a responsibility of individuals, not businesses. Thus to the extent that anybody should be required to provide coverage to a family, the household mandate assumes that it is the family that carries the first responsibility. Second, it assumes that there is an implicit contract between households and society, based on the notion that health insurance is not like other forms of insurance protection.

If a young man wrecks his Porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not h e has insurance. If we find that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance...

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans


Max Baucus (D-MT) who is now US Ambassador to China, didn't help--

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
18. Maybe one day people will get tired of being treated like 4 year olds
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:38 PM
Nov 2014

and maybe not

Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage


If the Democrats do it, it's a good thing. But if Republicans do it, it's a bad thing.
No wonder punk pieces of filth like this gruber character treat people like 4 year olds.
 

simak

(116 posts)
19. Nice choice of quotes. I saw the same line.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 10:21 PM
Nov 2014

A huge political advantage? Over whom? An unwitting public? It's sickeningly condescending.

Propeller-heads like Gruber used to demonstrate common good benefits to their policies. They've gotten lazy or arrogant, or both, when they hide the truth from us because we supposedly can't be trusted with it. This superior attitude has "overlord" written all over it.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
24. Yet complain about Obamacare here and you get pilloried.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 12:07 AM
Nov 2014

The main architect calls Americans stupid and says they HAD to lie to get it done, but somehow it's still GRRRRRREAT legislation. Would love for someone to work that one out for me.

pnwmom

(108,960 posts)
30. Proving that absolute adherence to "transparency" isn't always a good thing.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:59 AM
Nov 2014

We know that the phrase "new tax" is the kiss of death to even the most well-intentioned and important bill.

So if there is something else to call it, like a "mandate," then fine. Call it something else -- that doesn't scare away more than half the legislators who will have to explain their votes for it.

IADEMO2004

(5,554 posts)
33. Well played Fox/GOP. Bumper sticker attack that needs two page rebuttal no one reads.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:28 PM
Nov 2014

Advantage billionaires and screw the health care.

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