General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm 5 foot eight and weigh 155
should I be taxed for what I eat and drink?
Should I be taxed extra for drinking sugary drinks even if I am healthy?
Where do we stop the nanny state?
I have put about 300 pounds of venison in my freezer....how much should I be taxed?
Where does it end?
Should I be taxed for every carb I eat?
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The Velveteen Ocelot
(117,879 posts)MH1
(17,901 posts)I have no kids in school.
I have no kids.
Why the hell should I pay school taxes?
* psst, this is sarcasm, in cases it isn't abundantly obvious.
MH1
(17,901 posts)I drink occasionally and am not remotely alcoholic. (so I claim, anyway)
Alcohol is not harmful to me, it is a feature not a bug.
Why should it be taxed?
And this whole drug decriminalization thing, they say they want to legalize it and TAX it so the taxes can be used to help people with addiction issues. But I have no addiction issues. (ok, caffeine and chocolate, but no one is offering to help me with those!) Why should I support this tax?
* psst sarcasm again.
Me ... me ... me .... me ........
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I don't believe in adding extra taxes to food to curb behaviors I don't like. It ends up hurting the poor.
Warpy
(112,248 posts)they feed the kids orange flavored stuff that has some vitamin C in it if they're lucky. Orange juice and oranges are out of reach. The kids eat sugary cereal with fake fruit because they can't afford the blueberries (or eggs) for blueberry pancakes or hot oatmeal with fruit.
I see the choices people with EBT cards have to make and it's heartbreaking. Yes, the kids are drinking too much soda, but they can't afford fruit juices and some kids can't drink milk. Water gets boring and the kids rebel.
I say that if they want to tax one thing, they need to subsidize a replacement. When fruit juices are subsidized and are cheaper than highly taxed soda, people will give the kids fruit juice and be glad to do it.
It's so disappointing that healthy foods are too expensive for the people who need it the most.
arthritisR_US
(7,318 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)but It can be addressed through the Farm Bill. But like with everything, it's complicated.
Here's an interesting read on it, if you're interested.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farm-bill-why-dont-taxpayers-subsidize-the-foods-that-are-better-for-us/2014/02/14/d7642a3c-9434-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
arthritisR_US
(7,318 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Come on now.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Part of it may be convenience, yes, it's easier to pour a bowl of cereal than to make a decent breakfast.
But the overall point is, it's expensive to eat healthy. Fruit, fish, proteins with the exception of beans are expensive.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)Warpy
(112,248 posts)It's a lot of meat for a hell of a lot less money.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)$240 a month.
Plus a few plant foods and snacks and it's ridiculous.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)Brine them and grill them with a sprinkle of cayenne. When the kids want a snack or a sandwich or a salad there's always grilled chicken in the refrigerator. Thighs are often $.99 a pound. Main ingredient for Chicken and Forty Cloves. Just like grandma used to make.
The "healthy food is too expensive" meme is bogus.
When you remove the junk from your shopping cart you'll be amazed at how much is left for fruits, vegetables, fresh fish and lean meats.
BTW: The cost per calorie metric is also bogus.
Oh yeah... Straight orange juice is way too sweet for me. Quarter of a glass of juice then fill to the top with water. It goes a long way.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)meaculpa2011
(918 posts)Stop 'n Shop in NYC for $1.99 per pound. Literally, ten minutes ago.
There's also a butcher shop nearby that sells for that price every day.
I thought that NYC had the highest prices. Where are you?
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)meaculpa2011
(918 posts)We have supermarkets every few blocks so I can shop around for groceries.
Of course, rent for a tiny one bedroom apartment starts at $2,000 per month.
The cost of high ticket items here (housing, taxes, insurance...) are astronomical.
It's a real struggle for most young people. We're well established, but just our housing expenses amount to nearly $3,000 per month. And we don't even have a mortgage. A young family in their first home would then have to add $2,000-$3,000 more in mortgage expense.
We're contemplating a move because we can cut our fixed expenses by more than half. Being a city dweller for 60+ years I'm not sure I can even think about rural life.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)as you said "the rent is too damn high". My mortgage AND property taxes for a home with 1300 square feet (plus 1300 square feet in the basement AND 1300 square feet in the attic) is $1200/month.
But going anywhere is inconvenient and as you've seen the cost of healthy food is astronomical. The only thing I wouldn't like about city life (besides the costs) would be the lack of open space for winding up a sports car.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)at the speed limit.
We have a very long stretch of oceanfront here that's a real pleasure to ride. I can make a forty mile circuit completely surrounded by water. If I want long winding "country" roads I have to travel far north or farther west.
Life is about compromise.
P.S. I also love riding in the city, but I've been sideswiped and rear-ended more than once. Lost my 1984 Honda in Sandy and I've been preoccupied with house repairs. I'll start shopping for a new bike in a few months.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)I was floored when I saw boneless breast was $3.50 a pound in Michigan. Are you in Alaska or Hawaii or NYC? How bad are frozen vegetables? Bird's Eye here are about $1.50 to $1.66 a pound (3 bags for $5.00 on my latest trip to the store)
Response to MillennialDem (Reply #59)
CrispyQ This message was self-deleted by its author.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)woodsprite
(12,024 posts)MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)woodsprite
(12,024 posts)I certainly can't cook it like a chef can, and the darned price was $22 for two small, not so great looking strip steaks at the store last night. We need at least 3 to feed 4 of us (so 2 packs). My just turned 14yo son is starting on another growth spurt, which I certainly don't mind, but I'm having to fill out meals with things we don't usually have for dinner. I've added one or two of the following at dinner: biscuits, muffins, potatoes, dumplings, pasta, yogurt or cottage cheese.
Thankfully, my daughter and I have been switching to a low carb plan, so we've been experimenting with other proteins. That first trip to the grocery to stock up though was crazy (like over $250) and it was mainly fresh produce, meat, cheeses, and beans -- some things I did splurge on like a mid-value olive oil and balsamic vinegar. This week was much better since I just had to restock what we used up AND we ran into a sale for chicken at the Acme -- buy one, get one free for boneless chicken. I refused to spend $15.00 on a package of ground meat to make chili, so this week I'm making white bean chicken chili!
Warpy
(112,248 posts)that the kids will actually eat.
I know a lot of poorer moms who buy the stuff in the bags and put it into a brand name box they've used for years. The kids don't start to get wise until they're in fourth grade or so.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I buy the malto mix cereal all the time. It is fairly unhealthy but they like it and their caloric needs are high.I am a bodybuilder. I buy tons of oatmeal and egs for me. There is nothing cheaper than instant oats. A dozen eggs is a dollar.
MH1
(17,901 posts)I buy organic thick-rolled oats - which taste so much better than instant - and they are cheaper than anything you'll buy in a box. Add a few raisins, also bulk purchased, and you bump up the price per serving, but not by much.
But,
a) poorer folks may not have access to such a great store that provides bulk foods like oatmeal and raisins. (But they can probably buy a canister of non-instant oats. Non instant oats adds 1 - 4 minutes to the cooking time, depending on whether you like having to clean the microwave afterward.)
b) if all the kids will eat is the flavored instant crap, I agree that is probably cheaper healthier than most other boxed cereals.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)I like steel cut Irish oatmeal, but it's very expensive so I buy it in bulk when it's $2.39 for an 18 ounce package.
It cooks for 30 minutes but it's a thousand times better tasting than the Quaker stuff.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I make it after dinner, mixing equal parts of oats and milk (you can use whatever liquid you prefer), sprinkle in some fruit and walnuts and put in the refrigerator.
In the morning I take it out of the refrigerator and eat it. Easy and delish. And if you still prefer it warm, you can always microwave it for a few seconds or heat it up in a sauce pan.
jen63
(813 posts)and my kid didn't know the difference until I told him. He was amazed, lol!
Warpy
(112,248 posts)I used to tell people with bunches of kids who all drank milk to keep the jugs, make up a gallon of powdered skim milk for every gallon they bought and mix them half and half.
Their kids never caught on.
It's always seemed weird that powdered milk was cheaper than whole milk but i guess the processing was cheaper than fast shipping, constant refrigeration, and spoilage.
jen63
(813 posts)on kids!
Warpy
(112,248 posts)and people told me I pinched pennies so hard they could hear Lincoln groan.
I'm great at being poor. Now that I'm middle class, I have no clue what I'm doing half the time.
But yeah, I was always full of hints for parents who were struggling.
jen63
(813 posts)I didn't think I wanted any, but I got a surprise while on the pill. Love him dearly, but he's the only one! I hear you about Lincoln groaning also!. I'm poor and a lot of the time it was just me and my boy. It's a struggle. He will have a better life than I did thank gawd.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)We were wise to it, but ate it anyway. He worked in sweat shop and we ran out of money by the middle of every week.
Macaroni and peas every Thursday night.
winstars
(4,224 posts)formernaderite
(2,436 posts)its sugar... thirsty? drink water. sugary cereal... actually cereal in general is pretty expensive. Making food from scratch is still the cheapest way to go. Eggs are not expensive compared to cereal, neither is oatmeal. I realize people have forgotten how to cook real food, but it's not more expensive to buy actual food as opposed to ready made. I do realize that for some poor people, there is little access to good food, because of where they live.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)![](http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/no/no-effin-way.gif)
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)of forcing people to pay extra tax for what they eat are liberal how, exactly?
lancer78
(1,495 posts)It is nanny-stateism, pure and simple.
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)I just wanted to see if the other poster would defend the indefensible.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,149 posts)![](/emoticons/shrug.gif)
Why do you ask?
lunasun
(21,646 posts)First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me
Martin Niemöller
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Very much a right wing meme.
Here's an example of another variation on it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017218293
arthritisR_US
(7,318 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,364 posts)juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)they came for moxie and I was moxie & no one was left
Orsino
(37,428 posts)In the face of a Republican takeover of Congress, there is nothing more critical than the possibility of minor regressive taxation on food and beverages.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)The rich won't care about it because the amount they'd pay is irrelevant. The poor will feel it, though.
It doesn't even make logical sense, there are plenty of ways to get overweight besides sugar. Fats and grain probably contribute more to obesity than sugar. Cholesterol comes from animal products, not soda.
I don't consider this progressive at all. It's illogical, tax-regressive nanny state nonsense.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)No food tax. Maybe a service tax in a restaurant, but don't tax food.
And pizza should be single payer. Just kidding. Or am I? Hmmmm.....
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I like pineapple on mine.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Pineapple is a very controversial topping.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)postulater
(5,075 posts)300#? How many years have you been collecting it?
Response to postulater (Reply #11)
Post removed
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It just seems creepy, to me.
Like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018436593#post19
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)scarystuffyo
(733 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(117,879 posts)at least from DU. It's a classic RW propaganda term. While it's fair to debate how and when personal behavior should be regulated, let's discuss it in terms of reasonable regulation. The term "nanny state," however, is mostly a conservative/libertarian sneering jab at all regulation aimed at arguably unsafe personal behavior. Some people call requiring the use of seat belts in cars or the wearing of motorcycle helmets or the taxation of cigarettes and alcohol "nanny-stateism." Debate the reasonableness of these regulations all you want but please, let's dump the "nanny state" crap.
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)anyone ever says nanny state to me in a conversation 9 times out of ten I know what side of the fence they're on
Strelnikov_
(7,773 posts)raccoon
(31,267 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Do you not pay taxes on these items?
madville
(7,427 posts)Here in Florida most "unprepared" food and drink is tax free.
Now if I go to the grocery store deli and buy an 8 piece fried chicken, a sub sandwich and an iced sweet tea it's all taxed.
If I buy a raw chicken, bread, sandwich meat, mayonnaise, mustard, a tomato, cheese, tea bags and some sugar it's all tax free.
Sales tax is only applied to "prepared" foods here.
handmade34
(22,783 posts)with taxing the hell out of soft drinks...
Major Nikon
(36,872 posts)You can buy a 2 liter bottle of soda for 88 cents. Even doubling the price won't discourage all that many and will simply unfairly punish those with lower incomes. Virtually all taxes and fines should be based on income.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I know I was shocked too.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)and Jack La Lane are dead!
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)Most of this relates to obesity. Some of us drink quite a bit of soda and still manage to avoid obesity, mostly by being physically active.
The sugar doesn't turn into fat if you're using the energy it is giving you.
Not all soda contains phosphoric acid. Not all soda contains high-fructose corn syrup.
Though it seems that whoever made up the graphic above wants us all to give up caffeine too. Notgonnahappen.
ileus
(15,396 posts)From that chart if we could just ban soft drinks we could solve all of health cares boogieman.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)They won't let us collect our own rain water in some places, or freely generate solar power.
Why don't they tax luxury boats and cars and homes, instead?
Mz Pip
(27,579 posts)Every year I have to pay property taxes on my house, license fees on my car and small boat.
As far as surgery drinks go, on the rare occasions I drink the stuff, the extra pennies wont make that much difference.
I can only hope the city of Berkeley will use the money generated from the tax to do some needed repairs on the roads or add it to education.
librechik
(30,735 posts)Or is it one of those pesky things where childless couples complain about being taxed to pay for schools and hospitals and such? Are you being taxed for every carb you eat and where is that happening???
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)prefer the term "childfree" to "childless." Childless sounds like we are lacking something
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)I pay taxes on them, ostensibly to discourage me because of the cost to the public good that cigarettes and alcohol cause.
Soda -- and the obesity epidemic -- are also threats to the public health, and the government is discouraging them in the best, most realistic way they know how. At the very least we can hope the soda tax money raised in Berkley will go to public health in Berkley.
And you DID pay a tax on that venison: your hunting license.
(Personally, I'd tax gasoline far more, encouraging people to walk more, and spending the money raised on public transportation)
FourScore
(9,704 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)If it is, maybe you should lay off of unhealthy sodas/sugary drinks and stick to water.
Good God, what a thing to get worked up about. And it sounds so Yukon Barbie-ish.
Starry Messenger
(32,364 posts)You just stay where you are, we'll all be happier. We don't like dog shooters out here either.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)They do a few things really well and a lot of things very poorly.
I wouldn't live there again. I'd take parts of Oakland near Berkeley, but never Berkeley proper.
It's insane.
Starry Messenger
(32,364 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Population that can't afford housing. What priorities do they follow? Stunning.
Starry Messenger
(32,364 posts)SF has worse housing probs, and voted down an anti eviction measure and a soda tax. I don't like that result, but I don't live in either city.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)can only be addressed if society as a whole makes an effort.
It isn't just an individual and their "will power".
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Its a right wing buzzword if nobody ever told you.
And wtf does venison have to do with a tax on sugary drinks.
And sure you might be healthy now but why should I have to pay to treat your diabetes in ten years,
Sorry but I have no problem with this.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)We'll manage without you somehow.
*don't say anything about the OP executing the family dog and bragging on DU about it*
You're horrible.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Jesus, you have fucked up priorities.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)My husband is 6'2" - 160lbs, and to my dismay lives on sugar.
He fills his coffee cup 1/4 full of sugar, before he adds his coffee. He then drinks soda, all day. And at night, drinks his very sugary cherry Kool-Aid.
I've tried to persuade him to cut back on sugar. He does what he wants, anyway.
Here's the thing. He's upper 50s and very healthy.
I'd rather leave the soda problem to doctors, instead of politicians. If it's causing a health issue, I think people will be more inclined to listen to their doctors rather their politicians. And if it's not causing a health problem yet? I'm pretty sure my husband will listen to his doctor before he listens to me. Have doctors advise people about their sugar habits if there is a concern.
Oh well, at least I have him eating more vegetables and healthy proteins. He didn't like it at first, but he adapted.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)WhiteAndNerdy
(365 posts)-- how many people are more concerned with your use of the term "nanny state" than with the substance of your post.
"Nanny state" is not a RW meme. It's a term commonly used by people who actually believe in individual liberty to describe government overstepping its bounds. Another term for it is "paternalism." Either way, the point is that adult citizens are not children who need government to stand in loco parentis and manage every choice we make. I object to ALL "sin taxes." It's not the government's job to try to dissuade me from buying legal products at my own discretion. If something isn't dangerous enough to ban altogether, it's no one's business if I want to consume it.
Written while guzzling soda & chain smoking,
W&N
alp227
(32,314 posts)Banning the purchase of products? THAT's paternalism.
betsuni
(26,629 posts)"I am a sick man ... I am a spiteful man. I am a most unpleasant man. I think my liver is diseased. Then again, I don't know a thing about my illness, I'm not even sure what hurts. I'm not being treated and never have been, though I respect both medicine and doctors. Besides, I'm extremely superstitious -- well at least enough to respect medicine. (I'm sufficiently educated not to be superstitious, but I am, anyway.) No, gentlemen, it's out of spite that I don't wish to be treated. ... Of course, I won't really be able to explain to you precisely who will be hurt by my spite in this case; I know perfectly well that I can't possibly 'get even' with doctors by refusing their treatment, I know better than anyone that all this is going to hurt me alone, and no one else. Even so, if I refuse to be treated, it's out of spite. My liver hurts? Good, let it hurt even more!"
ileus
(15,396 posts)Of course you could use archery equipment to harvest deer, but you probably still use pure evil broadheads.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Yes, regulations, ordinances, and laws are meant to impact everyone. And overall, that's as it should be, because we really are supposed to all be in that part of society together.
Policies are aimed at the population. Laws typically are erected by majorities to benefit most of society.
No doubt about it, populations decomposes into individual units. Laws impact individuals as those impacts sum to society wide effects.
But, in the tradition of English and US law, a law intended to target one individual is immoral and unlawful.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Chicken is not taxed. Potatoes are not taxed. Neither is cooking oil. They are considered food items. However, what is to prevent someone from deep frying that chicken and potatoes? Will the health police ever know what you are cooking at home? Nope, they can only target unhealthy food sold in restaurants and fast food places.
I only eat at fast food places maybe one or twice a YEAR, mostly when travelling. Don't tell mr that a couple of times a year is unhealthly or that I am going to get fat eating these things very rarely. Same with soda. I will PAY the Nanny State's "health" tax. I am 66 years old. The only time I have weighed more than 100 lbs was 30 years ago when I was pregnant. Nobody has ever said to me "don't eat or drink that or you will get FAT". Actually, I have had people say to me "have an extra Big Mac Supersize Meal for me".
Sorry, one size does not fit all.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Or do you oppose high taxes on those as well?
B Calm
(28,762 posts)But, then maybe I'm just being jealous.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)But of course we can't get coordinated action at a federal level, so instead we have to leave it to municipalities to set taxes at the point of sale.