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Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:26 PM

 

the problem isn't us or them...it is all of us

We bitch about them...they bitch about us...we call them fascists and they call us commies.

Do we ever speak to each other?

Maybe if we get out of our little internet comfort zones and actually talk to each other we could get somewhere?

I dont believe they want things much different than we do but the powers that be have manipulated both sides so much we spend all our time fighting each other instead of fighting the people who are really screwing us over.

Let's start talking to each other...THAT will scare the hell out of the 1%

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Reply the problem isn't us or them...it is all of us (Original post)
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 OP
rock Nov 2014 #1
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #3
JaneyVee Nov 2014 #5
rock Nov 2014 #8
TheKentuckian Nov 2014 #26
woo me with science Nov 2014 #2
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #6
steve2470 Nov 2014 #4
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #7
steve2470 Nov 2014 #9
woo me with science Nov 2014 #15
hfojvt Nov 2014 #12
steve2470 Nov 2014 #13
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #17
hfojvt Nov 2014 #18
Brickbat Nov 2014 #10
woo me with science Nov 2014 #11
Old Nick Nov 2014 #14
KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #16
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #19
el_bryanto Nov 2014 #20
steve2470 Nov 2014 #21
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #22
el_bryanto Nov 2014 #24
librechik Nov 2014 #23
Basic LA Nov 2014 #25

Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:40 PM

1. "I dont believe they want things much different than we do"

Let's see: they want a theocracy whose laws are delivered by by fiat (not the car) and we want a Democracy where the individuals vote counts equally. Yep, they're practically the same thing. (Could this be ?)

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Response to rock (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:54 PM

3. show me that

 

Show me where the Republicans want to establish a theocracy?
It is about as truthful as there claims that we want to establish a communist state.

BOTH sides need to cool down the rhetoric or we will all be screwed.

The 1% love us fighting....they win either way

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:57 PM

5. Teaching creationism, church/state intertwined,

 

Writing bills based on the bible like abortion bans and anti same sex marriage, I could easily keep going.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:02 PM

8. Thanks JaneyVee!

You saved me some pointless writing. You left out "Carving the 10 commandments on everybody's heads."

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 07:17 PM

26. That isn't even arguable to my eyes, what is it not to see in that regard?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:53 PM

2. Amen. The greatest tool of the oligarchy is to keep us divided.

Separate TV news stations, separate radio stations, an endless stream of Two Minutes Hate against the other side....

The administration is doubling troops in Iraq, fast-tracking the TPP...

What's the lesson? We have united oligarchy, not gridlocked democracy. "Republicans" are a sham enemy. Neither party is running traditional Republicans or Democrats anymore. They are all corporatists. Our form of government in this country has changed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5779080

I would say the Third Way is a group of CORPORATISTS. Yes, it is a creation of Wall Street. We tend to equate Republicans and corporatists because the Republican Party was infiltrated by Wall Street first and has been working for corporate interests for a long time.

But the truth is that traditional Republicanism was corrupted by the corporate monsters just as much as the Democratic Party is being corrupted now. The corporatists lie to Republicans as much as they lie to us. Just as our corporate politicians lie to us about wanting to protect public education, social justice and the social safety nets, unions, and the environment, their politicians lie to them about wanting to stand for small government, limited government interference in private lives, and the defense of civil liberties. Yet no matter which party is elected, we get the same corporate monster agenda of larger, more oppressive and authoritarian government, assaults on and privatization of public services, and more warmongering.

Every poll shows that Republicans are just as angry about what is being done to this country as we are. We drown in corporate propaganda to make us hate and blame each other so we won't realize that that we are ALL victims and so we won't unite to demand our representation back. They want it to be more viscerally repulsive to us to ever think about uniting with a Republican on ANYTHING, even than to defend our Bill of Rights and our democratic representation. Even though we keep getting the same suicidal, predatory agenda under both parties, we are to circle the wagons when it's our guy in office.

I think being clear that corporatists are the enemy is important because we have got to break the con game of hyperpartisanship they use to keep us divided, and teach ALL Americans that we have a stake in getting corporate money out of government. The truth is that we can beat traditional Republicans at the ballot box. But right now, we don't even get the chance to do that. The system has been purchased by Wall street, and they aren't running traditional Republicans *or* traditional Democrats for office anymore. They are running corporatists on both sides.

We need to become the 99 percent to take our representation back. We don't have to agree on everything. Just that our representation has been stolen from ALL of us by corporate corruption of our government and elections. And that we demand corporate money and power out of government and the political system so we can have our representation back.

K&R




You bet it will scare them. And my prediction is that this OP will be swarmed by the familiar Third Way talking points/message control crew here. That's how dangerous this idea really is to them.


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Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:59 PM

6. I have no illusions

 

it will be hidden.
The thought of us working together terrifies the PTB for good reason

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:56 PM

4. you can go to Discussionist and talk to them for hours....

http://www.discussionist.com/?com=login

Please report back with your results, sincerely.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:01 PM

7. or we can talk here

 

do you want to do the normal and try to ban me or do we actually talk about what is wrong with this country?

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:04 PM

9. Never hinted at banning, my friend

They are not welcome here, per TOS. I don't want to talk to them here. I will go to Disc. if I wish to do so.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:20 PM

15. IMO there's a difference between engaging Republican *or* Third Way talking points here

and teaching Republicans at sites like Discussionist and in the community.

This is a Democratic site.

But it is imperative that we teach Republican voters that they have as much of a stake as we do in getting corporate money and power out of our elections and government.

Ignore the 3rd Way shills with extreme prejudice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025767160


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Response to steve2470 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:06 PM

12. my own attempts

show that is kinda futile. Common ground? They will spend the next week chortling about Tuesday's election results.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:07 PM

13. that's been the general consensus nt

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:28 PM

17. and if we won we would do the same

 

How about we meet in the middle and BOTH sides throw the people screwing us out.

Dems and Repubs arent that far apart if we would quit letting the PTB set the agenda

They keep us at each others throats and they keep getting richer

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:36 PM

18. then we clearly are fairly far apart

We should throw McConnell and Grimes both out?

Would we chortle if we won? Probably many would, but if you cannot be magnanimous in victory, when can you be?

"they keep getting richer". Well, I would argue that the victory of Grimes, Weiland (SD), Braley (Iowa) and Udall would be far, far more likely to slow them down at least a little, than the alternative did. So it's quite hard to find common ground with those HAPPY that the other side won.

Although, I did have a few, who seemed to accept me as a conservative.

Go figure.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:04 PM

10. A recent study from Stanford found that political bias is even stronger than racism in the U.S.

That's saying something.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:06 PM

11. The problem isn't really us, though. It's the corporate coup of our representative democracy.



The problem...the enemy.... is the One Percent and their paid politicians in both parties who have subverted our democracy itself.


But your OP is spot-on. We are ALL victims of what the oligarchy is doing to us. Their worst nightmare is that we'll figure that out.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:09 PM

14. No

 

The problem is that there are too many of THEM and not enough of US.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:25 PM

16. Define "us" and "them" please. - nt

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:41 PM

19. Them?...the corporations and the 1%

 

US...EVERYONE else.

AS long as they keep us fighting ourselves they win
LOOK at us and FR
LOOK at us and DI

We fight over the stupidest shit and the 1% laughs all the way to the bank

It is time to quit giving them the pleasure of watching us play this game over and over.

If revolution is it...so be it

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:43 PM

20. I talk to republicans all the time -

But it's problematic - because we have different sources of information. It's hard to argue policies or programs when the basic facts are understood so differently.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:48 PM

21. so true, very difficult to establish a common base of facts

They have their "facts", and we have ours, which are much much more accurate.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:51 PM

22. then we engage them

 

TALK TO THEM...show them...If we have to engage them ONE VOTER AT A TIME...that is what we do.

Talking shit about each other while entrenching ourselves doesnt do anyone any good

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Response to backwoodsbob (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 07:11 PM

24. One other thing to consider - DU is a place to blow off steam.

I wouldn't assume that people necessarily talk the same way about Republicans here that they do in their daily lives. For one thing many of us live in parts of the country or work at jobs where we can't.

Bryant

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:56 PM

23. Doesn't matter. Vote all you want…

"Vote all you want. The secret government won’t change.

The people we elect aren’t the ones calling the shots, says Tufts University’s Michael Glennon

Though it’s a bedrock American principle that citizens can steer their own government by electing new officials, Glennon suggests that in practice, much of our government no longer works that way. In a new book, “National Security and Double Government,” he catalogs the ways that the defense and national security apparatus is effectively self-governing, with virtually no accountability, transparency, or checks and balances of any kind. He uses the term “double government”: There’s the one we elect, and then there’s the one behind it, steering huge swaths of policy almost unchecked. Elected officials end up serving as mere cover for the real decisions made by the bureaucracy. "

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html

We need to solve the actual problem. Not the problem they have trained us to we think we have.

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Response to backwoodsbob (Original post)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 07:17 PM

25. The Great Divide

We see our problems caused by "Greedy Fat-Cats", they see our problems caused by "The Lazy Poor." Everything else is negotiable.

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