Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:26 PM Nov 2014

the problem isn't us or them...it is all of us

We bitch about them...they bitch about us...we call them fascists and they call us commies.

Do we ever speak to each other?

Maybe if we get out of our little internet comfort zones and actually talk to each other we could get somewhere?

I dont believe they want things much different than we do but the powers that be have manipulated both sides so much we spend all our time fighting each other instead of fighting the people who are really screwing us over.

Let's start talking to each other...THAT will scare the hell out of the 1%

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
the problem isn't us or them...it is all of us (Original Post) backwoodsbob Nov 2014 OP
"I dont believe they want things much different than we do" rock Nov 2014 #1
show me that backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #3
Teaching creationism, church/state intertwined, JaneyVee Nov 2014 #5
Thanks JaneyVee! rock Nov 2014 #8
That isn't even arguable to my eyes, what is it not to see in that regard? TheKentuckian Nov 2014 #26
Amen. The greatest tool of the oligarchy is to keep us divided. woo me with science Nov 2014 #2
I have no illusions backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #6
you can go to Discussionist and talk to them for hours.... steve2470 Nov 2014 #4
or we can talk here backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #7
Never hinted at banning, my friend steve2470 Nov 2014 #9
IMO there's a difference between engaging Republican *or* Third Way talking points here woo me with science Nov 2014 #15
my own attempts hfojvt Nov 2014 #12
that's been the general consensus nt steve2470 Nov 2014 #13
and if we won we would do the same backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #17
then we clearly are fairly far apart hfojvt Nov 2014 #18
A recent study from Stanford found that political bias is even stronger than racism in the U.S. Brickbat Nov 2014 #10
The problem isn't really us, though. It's the corporate coup of our representative democracy. woo me with science Nov 2014 #11
No Old Nick Nov 2014 #14
Define "us" and "them" please. - nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #16
Them?...the corporations and the 1% backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #19
I talk to republicans all the time - el_bryanto Nov 2014 #20
so true, very difficult to establish a common base of facts steve2470 Nov 2014 #21
then we engage them backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #22
One other thing to consider - DU is a place to blow off steam. el_bryanto Nov 2014 #24
Doesn't matter. Vote all you want… librechik Nov 2014 #23
The Great Divide Basic LA Nov 2014 #25

rock

(13,218 posts)
1. "I dont believe they want things much different than we do"
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:40 PM
Nov 2014

Let's see: they want a theocracy whose laws are delivered by by fiat (not the car) and we want a Democracy where the individuals vote counts equally. Yep, they're practically the same thing. (Could this be ?)

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
3. show me that
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:54 PM
Nov 2014

Show me where the Republicans want to establish a theocracy?
It is about as truthful as there claims that we want to establish a communist state.

BOTH sides need to cool down the rhetoric or we will all be screwed.

The 1% love us fighting....they win either way

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
5. Teaching creationism, church/state intertwined,
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:57 PM
Nov 2014

Writing bills based on the bible like abortion bans and anti same sex marriage, I could easily keep going.

rock

(13,218 posts)
8. Thanks JaneyVee!
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:02 PM
Nov 2014

You saved me some pointless writing. You left out "Carving the 10 commandments on everybody's heads."

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
2. Amen. The greatest tool of the oligarchy is to keep us divided.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:53 PM
Nov 2014

Separate TV news stations, separate radio stations, an endless stream of Two Minutes Hate against the other side....

The administration is doubling troops in Iraq, fast-tracking the TPP...

What's the lesson? We have united oligarchy, not gridlocked democracy. "Republicans" are a sham enemy. Neither party is running traditional Republicans or Democrats anymore. They are all corporatists. Our form of government in this country has changed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5779080

I would say the Third Way is a group of CORPORATISTS. Yes, it is a creation of Wall Street. We tend to equate Republicans and corporatists because the Republican Party was infiltrated by Wall Street first and has been working for corporate interests for a long time.

But the truth is that traditional Republicanism was corrupted by the corporate monsters just as much as the Democratic Party is being corrupted now. The corporatists lie to Republicans as much as they lie to us. Just as our corporate politicians lie to us about wanting to protect public education, social justice and the social safety nets, unions, and the environment, their politicians lie to them about wanting to stand for small government, limited government interference in private lives, and the defense of civil liberties. Yet no matter which party is elected, we get the same corporate monster agenda of larger, more oppressive and authoritarian government, assaults on and privatization of public services, and more warmongering.

Every poll shows that Republicans are just as angry about what is being done to this country as we are. We drown in corporate propaganda to make us hate and blame each other so we won't realize that that we are ALL victims and so we won't unite to demand our representation back. They want it to be more viscerally repulsive to us to ever think about uniting with a Republican on ANYTHING, even than to defend our Bill of Rights and our democratic representation. Even though we keep getting the same suicidal, predatory agenda under both parties, we are to circle the wagons when it's our guy in office.

I think being clear that corporatists are the enemy is important because we have got to break the con game of hyperpartisanship they use to keep us divided, and teach ALL Americans that we have a stake in getting corporate money out of government. The truth is that we can beat traditional Republicans at the ballot box. But right now, we don't even get the chance to do that. The system has been purchased by Wall street, and they aren't running traditional Republicans *or* traditional Democrats for office anymore. They are running corporatists on both sides.

We need to become the 99 percent to take our representation back. We don't have to agree on everything. Just that our representation has been stolen from ALL of us by corporate corruption of our government and elections. And that we demand corporate money and power out of government and the political system so we can have our representation back.

K&R




You bet it will scare them. And my prediction is that this OP will be swarmed by the familiar Third Way talking points/message control crew here. That's how dangerous this idea really is to them.


 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
6. I have no illusions
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:59 PM
Nov 2014

it will be hidden.
The thought of us working together terrifies the PTB for good reason

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
7. or we can talk here
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:01 PM
Nov 2014

do you want to do the normal and try to ban me or do we actually talk about what is wrong with this country?

steve2470

(37,461 posts)
9. Never hinted at banning, my friend
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:04 PM
Nov 2014

They are not welcome here, per TOS. I don't want to talk to them here. I will go to Disc. if I wish to do so.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
15. IMO there's a difference between engaging Republican *or* Third Way talking points here
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:20 PM
Nov 2014

and teaching Republicans at sites like Discussionist and in the community.

This is a Democratic site.

But it is imperative that we teach Republican voters that they have as much of a stake as we do in getting corporate money and power out of our elections and government.

Ignore the 3rd Way shills with extreme prejudice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025767160


hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
12. my own attempts
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:06 PM
Nov 2014

show that is kinda futile. Common ground? They will spend the next week chortling about Tuesday's election results.

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
17. and if we won we would do the same
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:28 PM
Nov 2014

How about we meet in the middle and BOTH sides throw the people screwing us out.

Dems and Repubs arent that far apart if we would quit letting the PTB set the agenda

They keep us at each others throats and they keep getting richer

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
18. then we clearly are fairly far apart
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:36 PM
Nov 2014

We should throw McConnell and Grimes both out?

Would we chortle if we won? Probably many would, but if you cannot be magnanimous in victory, when can you be?

"they keep getting richer". Well, I would argue that the victory of Grimes, Weiland (SD), Braley (Iowa) and Udall would be far, far more likely to slow them down at least a little, than the alternative did. So it's quite hard to find common ground with those HAPPY that the other side won.

Although, I did have a few, who seemed to accept me as a conservative.

Go figure.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
10. A recent study from Stanford found that political bias is even stronger than racism in the U.S.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:04 PM
Nov 2014

That's saying something.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
11. The problem isn't really us, though. It's the corporate coup of our representative democracy.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:06 PM
Nov 2014


The problem...the enemy.... is the One Percent and their paid politicians in both parties who have subverted our democracy itself.


But your OP is spot-on. We are ALL victims of what the oligarchy is doing to us. Their worst nightmare is that we'll figure that out.
 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
19. Them?...the corporations and the 1%
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:41 PM
Nov 2014

US...EVERYONE else.

AS long as they keep us fighting ourselves they win
LOOK at us and FR
LOOK at us and DI

We fight over the stupidest shit and the 1% laughs all the way to the bank

It is time to quit giving them the pleasure of watching us play this game over and over.

If revolution is it...so be it

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
20. I talk to republicans all the time -
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:43 PM
Nov 2014

But it's problematic - because we have different sources of information. It's hard to argue policies or programs when the basic facts are understood so differently.

Bryant

steve2470

(37,461 posts)
21. so true, very difficult to establish a common base of facts
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:48 PM
Nov 2014

They have their "facts", and we have ours, which are much much more accurate.

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
22. then we engage them
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:51 PM
Nov 2014

TALK TO THEM...show them...If we have to engage them ONE VOTER AT A TIME...that is what we do.

Talking shit about each other while entrenching ourselves doesnt do anyone any good

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
24. One other thing to consider - DU is a place to blow off steam.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 07:11 PM
Nov 2014

I wouldn't assume that people necessarily talk the same way about Republicans here that they do in their daily lives. For one thing many of us live in parts of the country or work at jobs where we can't.

Bryant

librechik

(30,693 posts)
23. Doesn't matter. Vote all you want…
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 06:56 PM
Nov 2014

"Vote all you want. The secret government won’t change.

The people we elect aren’t the ones calling the shots, says Tufts University’s Michael Glennon

Though it’s a bedrock American principle that citizens can steer their own government by electing new officials, Glennon suggests that in practice, much of our government no longer works that way. In a new book, “National Security and Double Government,” he catalogs the ways that the defense and national security apparatus is effectively self-governing, with virtually no accountability, transparency, or checks and balances of any kind. He uses the term “double government”: There’s the one we elect, and then there’s the one behind it, steering huge swaths of policy almost unchecked. Elected officials end up serving as mere cover for the real decisions made by the bureaucracy. "

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html

We need to solve the actual problem. Not the problem they have trained us to we think we have.

 

Basic LA

(2,047 posts)
25. The Great Divide
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 07:17 PM
Nov 2014

We see our problems caused by "Greedy Fat-Cats", they see our problems caused by "The Lazy Poor." Everything else is negotiable.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»the problem isn't us or t...