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Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:33 PM Nov 2014

DWS needs to step down NOW !!

Win or lose tonight - no matter what the results - we could have done a hell of a lot better !

We had to rely on Bill Maher (only one I know) to tout Obama's numerous achievements to the masses.

Any party leader worth their salt would have compiled a list of achievements and sent it to every single frickin Dem to constantly throw to the press.

We let the right define that Obama failed. Most Dems co-opted. The idea has reached critical mass. But it is not true ! And even the press doesn't challenge

DWS should step down and we need a true PR genius type with a great organizationally skilled team to take full and complete charge.

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DWS needs to step down NOW !! (Original Post) Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 OP
She was one of the last remaining PUMAs to Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2014 #1
A big Dem loss now helps Hillary in 2016. morningfog Nov 2014 #4
I don't think so. I think we overestimate the Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2014 #20
Surely there is some point where the critical masses actually FEEL Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #25
Yes, it doesn't feel like the mid to late '90s because it isn't. amandabeech Nov 2014 #89
Define "better" - TBF Nov 2014 #116
I think we underestimate the downright meanness and selfishness of the American people. mountain grammy Nov 2014 #48
+100 narnian60 Nov 2014 #59
But....it doesn't have to be that way, does it? Can't someone bring out Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #61
Only if they can be deprogramed Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #137
Not in my corner of this country Tweedy Nov 2014 #83
You're overestimating the competence of the GOP! 7962 Nov 2014 #100
After what just happened tonight? I would challenge you to rethink this. Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2014 #102
Just watch the next 2 years. I believe I'll be right. 7962 Nov 2014 #109
I hope you're right! The corporate media has been on their side pushing their memes. Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2014 #112
Are you joking? You think the teabag mouthbreathers came out for this Nay Nov 2014 #79
Not so Tweedy Nov 2014 #86
abnd there we have the reason DonCoquixote Nov 2014 #94
If Obama bends on SS, TPP, and other crap he has a corporatist bent on, it could hurt her... cascadiance Nov 2014 #122
"SS, TPP, and other crap he has a corporatist bent on" - and how is Hillary different? djean111 Nov 2014 #127
That's my point! cascadiance Nov 2014 #128
Urban Dictionary definition of PUMA philly_bob Nov 2014 #113
Great idea flamingdem Nov 2014 #2
John Dean? Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #10
Shirley you mean Howard? Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #14
I was jesting, I meant JIM DEAN. Doh! My bad. Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #18
Jim Beam? Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #26
No, I think the Dem party is suffering from a massive hangover. Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #28
'Hair of the Dog' for party chair... nt appal_jack Nov 2014 #42
John Walker ChairmanAgnostic Nov 2014 #131
I'm in! Mr.Bill Nov 2014 #40
James Dean Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #138
Jimmy Dean? Voice for Peace Nov 2014 #47
You know what they say about politics being like making sausages..... nt Hekate Nov 2014 #76
Not the sausage guy! jmowreader Nov 2014 #78
Too much sausage, no doubt..... DeSwiss Nov 2014 #132
The next question comes to mind... jmowreader Nov 2014 #135
Don't forget the ravenous daughter! Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #139
Or the two dozen eggs and the T-bone steaks they eat along with the sausage jmowreader Nov 2014 #142
Talk about future heart attacks! And no health care to boot, I'd wager! Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #143
Bill Maher. Geez, I don't even know.. if there was someone Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #11
Before his hinee-hole of a son got elected I would have loved to have Mario in that position dorkzilla Nov 2014 #41
I hear ya D...but there is no one as eloquent, is there? nt Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #56
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love Mario dorkzilla Nov 2014 #74
M must have an anal retentive wife. Agree w/Saint Mario - wouldn't Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #82
I would love it!!! nt dorkzilla Nov 2014 #88
Actually I think my Rep. Chris Van Hollen would be good Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2014 #24
Maybe Russ Feingold?... cascadiance Nov 2014 #124
I am stunned at the Dem incompetence at campaigning. morningfog Nov 2014 #3
So True Dat ! nt Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #27
I think politicians who have no support from constituents are going to lose Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #44
They have to get that support. morningfog Nov 2014 #46
I don't agree. I think WE have got to get off our lazy asses... Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #49
Most will not get off their ass. On either side. morningfog Nov 2014 #54
You betcha they do. I work with Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats are silent... Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #60
Why do repubs trash the Dems? Because the candidates do. morningfog Nov 2014 #62
Excuse me? You're not understanding what I'm saying. Let me try to explain it differently. Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #65
No. I understand what you are saying, I fundamentally disagree. morningfog Nov 2014 #66
In every elections there are losers and winners, but the degree of laziness and catatonic behavior Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #67
Then we need better candidates. The candidate will light the fire. morningfog Nov 2014 #68
What you've just expressed is what I'm saying is the reason Democrats are losing... Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #72
Then get better candidates. Sorry the reality of American politics requires good campaigners to morningfog Nov 2014 #73
Frankly, we need better dem LEADERSHIP. The pubs tell their minions Nay Nov 2014 #87
I agree with #1 and #5 AleksS Nov 2014 #92
Like you, I don't see a solution to this either. The pubs have co-opted the Nay Nov 2014 #96
That's not the way Dems are around here in Northern Cal padfun Nov 2014 #103
You could lead by example. Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #140
Congratulations!!! Le Taz Hot Nov 2014 #84
I agree she needs to go rbrnmw Nov 2014 #5
And take Pelosi and Reid's "leadership" with her. KeepItReal Nov 2014 #6
One of the worst chairpersons ever budkin Nov 2014 #7
The Democratic Party hasn't had a successful leader since Howard Dean derby378 Nov 2014 #8
Sigh. VenusRising Nov 2014 #15
Is there bad blood between Dean and Hillary? Yes - he is Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #16
There is. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2014 #17
Agreed. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #98
The Democrats really dropped the ball. Cleita Nov 2014 #9
Exactly. When candidates have no emotional and political support from their constituents... Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #51
Hell, local and state dem politicians didn't even have the support of the DEM Nay Nov 2014 #93
Someone should have known better than to put her in that position. VenusRising Nov 2014 #12
Despite all that - which you know more about than I, she Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #21
Failure to perform. Jester Messiah Nov 2014 #13
+1,000,000 Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #71
what do you mean "even the press" barbtries Nov 2014 #19
you are right ! The only ones on TV who question are Bill Maher Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #22
You're kidding? Have you ever watched the Ed Show? Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #141
Very true, so LET'S BUY SOME FUCKING NETWORKS and make sure they Nay Nov 2014 #99
Except not go for the hate angle - go for the human kindness angle. nt Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #104
Bring back Dean! PAProgressive28 Nov 2014 #23
He's too real for them. Puzzledtraveller Nov 2014 #36
She has got to go! Lifelong Protester Nov 2014 #29
Did you see what she had the balls to post on her FB page last nite? jillan Nov 2014 #30
Sorry so big - didn't feel like fixing it. Feeling grumpy. jillan Nov 2014 #32
Grumpy? Only way is up from here. Shit...even I can't Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #34
Yes!! At least some good news. Finally!! jillan Nov 2014 #37
She did. You yourself just quoted her pushing it. (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #118
K & R SunSeeker Nov 2014 #31
She's not the problem... Our candidates were idiots... Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #33
both. Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #35
Yes. 840high Nov 2014 #38
I said it before and I'll say it again... Sarah Ibarruri Nov 2014 #53
Said it before, sayin' it again Proud Public Servant Nov 2014 #39
True, progressoid Nov 2014 #120
I agree her tenure as party chair has been shitty. Dean needs to come back. craigmatic Nov 2014 #43
For the past three weeks, I (and many others in here) have been posting about how the world wide wally Nov 2014 #45
Think the synergy of our combined wisdom is very powerful. Untapped Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #63
Love your screen name world wide wally Nov 2014 #64
Do you get it? Long ago it was actually current - then DU Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #69
"We let the right define that Obama failed." redruddyred Nov 2014 #50
The only decent chairman the Dem Party has had in a long time tblue37 Nov 2014 #52
Dancing With the Stars? Throd Nov 2014 #55
She should have been drummed out of the party after refusing to endorse Ds is FLA hobbit709 Nov 2014 #57
She's no Howard Dean Old Nick Nov 2014 #58
Yup. quakerboy Nov 2014 #70
Any time the Democrats believe the GOP message, they lose. Gore1FL Nov 2014 #75
very true observations ! nt Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #85
Too true! This can't be said enough! AleksS Nov 2014 #95
I see her sitting across from a smiling Hillary with a nice salary in her future. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #77
That's the likely scenario IDemo Nov 2014 #123
Third way's role is to get Reps elected. HooptieWagon Nov 2014 #80
Fire her ass!!!!! Stop circling the wagons about these Republican wannabees, jesus whereisjustice Nov 2014 #81
This is crap. Beowulf42 Nov 2014 #90
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, sorry Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #101
Dancing with the Stars? maced666 Nov 2014 #91
She has been a disaster. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #97
Today's Democrats are like cowering dogs Tsiyu Nov 2014 #105
Turd Way is over. Way over. Eridenus Nov 2014 #106
Or time to put up someone with balls - Like Ted Kennedy who used to say he Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #107
Appears Kay Hagan's available. (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Nov 2014 #108
Where's Howard Dean when we need him? calimary Nov 2014 #110
If she had any honor she would resign on her own Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2014 #111
Do we know if there's any effort to remove her or demand her resignation? calimary Nov 2014 #134
Time For All Democrats To Act Like They Are Democrats colsohlibgal Nov 2014 #114
They will force her campaign rhetoric a little to the left, but that is all. djean111 Nov 2014 #129
+1 davidpdx Nov 2014 #115
Dancing With the Stars? TransitJohn Nov 2014 #117
But DWS isn't the problem. She did exactly what she was hired for. rhett o rick Nov 2014 #119
Which is also why she stood in the way of impeaching Bush too... cascadiance Nov 2014 #125
Define yourself or be defined. nt Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #121
Step down my a** workinclasszero Nov 2014 #126
The constant barrage of fundraising E-mails was discouraging and offputting. Erose999 Nov 2014 #130
Well, changing riders might help a little..... DeSwiss Nov 2014 #133
the best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago... NuttyFluffers Nov 2014 #136
 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
1. She was one of the last remaining PUMAs to
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:35 PM
Nov 2014

support Obama. Somehow it doesn't surprise me at all that she's not touting his record

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
20. I don't think so. I think we overestimate the
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:48 PM
Nov 2014

intelligence of the American people. One could assume that a loss benefits Hillary but I am predicting that NO Democrat can win if Obama's agenda continues to be thwarted by Republicans and he can't get things done. The Republican candidate will have ammunition against Hillary, and she can't distance herself from Obama too much; she'll alienate black voters. Plus, she was a member of his cabinet.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
25. Surely there is some point where the critical masses actually FEEL
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:53 PM
Nov 2014

that things are better. (And don't have to be schooled on it).

 

amandabeech

(9,893 posts)
89. Yes, it doesn't feel like the mid to late '90s because it isn't.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:31 PM
Nov 2014

If people feel that the economy isn't going anywhere, they'll just resent anyone telling them that the economy is good and that they're stupid for not feeling it.

If the economy isn't going then it's time to throw out the bums. The pukes convinced people that Obama and his party were the bums, and really we Dems didn't have a lot to contradict the claim that people could really see and feel.

TBF

(31,988 posts)
116. Define "better" -
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:52 AM
Nov 2014

the 1% and their minions benefited from the so-called recovery. The masses are lucky if they are making $25K a year - if their job hasn't been sent to the Phillippines.

So they blame whichever party isn't in power. Currently they've jumped on the conservative culture bandwagon.

Democrats need to show they are creating jobs that pay $$$ - not shipping jobs overseas via NAFTA or TPP. We need to organize and rebuild unions.

mountain grammy

(26,591 posts)
48. I think we underestimate the downright meanness and selfishness of the American people.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:25 PM
Nov 2014

I like to think they're just stupid and uninformed, but lately, I think Republicans are Republicans because they dislike and distrust their fellow man. They believe if someone is poor or sick, it's just their own fault and they should just work harder. They range from simply not liking minorities to all out racists and want more religion in government. Republican people pay attention to elections and focus on the candidate that tells them the crap they want to hear. They always vote party line, and they win. There are just more of them outside of urban area.

Most Republicans I know, not all but most, are mean people. Most are racists. They don't see the huge inequalities in America today because they just don't care.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
61. But....it doesn't have to be that way, does it? Can't someone bring out
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:42 PM
Nov 2014

the part that is good? I still blame dipshit Sarah Palin for opening the hate door. Obama had the support of so many until she implied "It's ok to hate him. You can hate him and act like it has nothing to do with race."

Tweedy

(628 posts)
83. Not in my corner of this country
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:28 PM
Nov 2014

Most of the republicans I know support minimum wage increases, and strengthening social security and Medicare. They want the government to work and they are sick of obstruction. When anyone tries to show them the truth (Paul Ryan's many soc sec and Medicare destroying budgets, GOP statements against minimum wage increase and the record number of filibusters), these otherwise intelligent folks tell me, "no, that was Reid and Obama. They live in a political reality that is dang near impenetrable since they have been warned against liberal brainwashers. How they are reached with the reality I do not know, but these folks are not mean, just seriously deluded when it comes to politics.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
100. You're overestimating the competence of the GOP!
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:53 PM
Nov 2014

They have shown many times that they can screw up their chance to widen a majority. The ONLY chance they have in '16 is if they actually get important things passed in the next 2 yrs. And I'm betting that it will just be a fight with the tea party vs the rest of them, and if they do nothing, it WILL hurt their candidate in '16.
They're not getting the votes tonight because people like them, its because some people are just tired of Obama & Reid. Not unusual after 6 yrs.
I even know one person who liked their Dem senate candidate, but they didnt like Harry reid. She said I cant vote against Reid, so I have to vote against Nunn. That wont be the case in 2 yrs.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
109. Just watch the next 2 years. I believe I'll be right.
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:37 AM
Nov 2014

They COULD really help themselves like what happened with Clinton in the '90s. But if they follow the lead of Ted Cruz, its all over. I'm fairly sure they'll let this victory go to their head instead of USING their heads.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
112. I hope you're right! The corporate media has been on their side pushing their memes.
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:54 AM
Nov 2014

Tonight has been more of a disappointment than I had anticipated, that's for sure.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
79. Are you joking? You think the teabag mouthbreathers came out for this
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:20 PM
Nov 2014

election? Wait until Hillary runs. My god. She would be destroyed. Even if every Dem voted, we'd be overrun with the crazies.

Honestly, folks, the people in this country have turned into monsters. We have to realize this. Now what do we do?

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
94. abnd there we have the reason
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:41 PM
Nov 2014

This is a set up topunish the left who rejected Clinton, to know we all have to tow the line and shut up and like our poverty. The florida democratic party is the best friend the GOP has, and it was a poor place to pick a leader from.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
122. If Obama bends on SS, TPP, and other crap he has a corporatist bent on, it could hurt her...
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:49 AM
Nov 2014

... and show America that it really needs NON-corporatist and more populist type leadership in the White House. Hillary will be shown to not be fitting the bill of what will be needed to take our country back from the "corporate persons" that are now almost a terminal stage cancer in both parties if we don't do some heavy doses of chemo and get rid of the infected matter from government.

Republicans will have less excuses in 2016 if they control both houses of congress, and Democrats who capitulate and make things worse will also be shown the door too.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
127. "SS, TPP, and other crap he has a corporatist bent on" - and how is Hillary different?
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:06 PM
Nov 2014

She helped WRITE the TPP, FFS.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
128. That's my point!
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:31 PM
Nov 2014

If Obama, as our one Democratic controlled institution in our government now bends on TPP, letting Keystone pipeline being built, cutting back on SS, etc., many will point to that capitulation and ask if we want another president later who would capitulate to the corporatist controlling entities in our government as well, which Hillary Clinton has shown herself to be on many of these issues.

If Obama capitulates, and people start to feel in the trenches losses of more jobs overseas and to H-1B visas, and are forced to continue working at McDonald's jobs taking away jobs from young people instead of retiring when they lost on SS and other retirement plan benefits like 401Ks and IRAs that will have either gotten sold off early or blown up in the stock market, it will really have them wondering on why we should want corporatist leadership when progressives will have had NOTHING to do with putting in this crap that they will be dealing with over the next two years. Thom Hartmann's prediction of another stock market crash will likely happen too, and then people will be saying we really need more POPULISTS in government to push back on the corporate drive towards fascism that we have now that is infecting both parties.

We just need to make sure that progressive populists outnumber the tea party so-called populists that are manipulated in to working for the 1% even if they reject such notions outwardly. Such tea parties have been "allowed" by the Republicans to have more voice to allow Republicans to get more votes to take control now and push down progressives further.

philly_bob

(2,419 posts)
113. Urban Dictionary definition of PUMA
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:14 AM
Nov 2014

Acronym for Party Unity My Ass. Disenfrachised Hillary Clinton supporters not willing to support Obama, or the Democratic Party for nominating him.They feel he is unelectable and powerless to elicit the change he promises.They advocate voting for McCain/Palin,or not voting at all as a protest.

jmowreader

(50,506 posts)
135. The next question comes to mind...
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:54 PM
Nov 2014

How was he feeding 600 pounds of men and one woman who was just a little bit chubby with just 16 ounces of sausage?

jmowreader

(50,506 posts)
142. Or the two dozen eggs and the T-bone steaks they eat along with the sausage
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 10:23 PM
Nov 2014

Proof I'm a Northerner: I can't imagine them not needing two rolls even when they weighed 16 ounces!

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
11. Bill Maher. Geez, I don't even know.. if there was someone
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:42 PM
Nov 2014

we would have known. Is Mario Cuomo out of pocket? Gotta be someone who can pull at heart strings - AND knows how to get a message out.

dorkzilla

(5,141 posts)
41. Before his hinee-hole of a son got elected I would have loved to have Mario in that position
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:14 PM
Nov 2014

..but the sins of the son will overshadow him

Time to have Howard Dean step back in...

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
56. I hear ya D...but there is no one as eloquent, is there? nt
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:36 PM
Nov 2014

"I watched a small man with thick calluses on both hands work 15 and 16 hours a day. I saw him once literally bleed from the bottoms of his feet, a man who came here uneducated, alone, unable to speak the language, who taught me all I needed to know about faith and hard work by the simple eloquence of his example."

Mario Cuomo

dorkzilla

(5,141 posts)
74. Oh, don't get me wrong, I love Mario
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:04 PM
Nov 2014

In fact he is so venerated that my Dad and I refer to him as "Saint Mario." One of the greatest radio shows ever was a show called "Me and Mario" with the PoliSci Prof at SUNY New Paltz, Alan Chartock, and it was via this program that I learned to genuflect whenever I heard his name mentioned. The guy is solid.

His kid is a putz.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
82. M must have an anal retentive wife. Agree w/Saint Mario - wouldn't
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:27 PM
Nov 2014

it be great to hear a handful of up and coming Dems talk like M ?

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
124. Maybe Russ Feingold?...
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:57 AM
Nov 2014

With Scott Walker winning the governorship of Wisconsin, and perhaps instigating a major revolt there before next election, when he bankrupts the people there for their STUPIDITY in not voting him out, and then turns his back on them to run for president in 2016, people there will realize what mistake they made in voting out Feingold.

Perhaps he can leverage his Progressives United organization to really start reforming the processes that have been screwed up since Howard Dean was pushed out.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
3. I am stunned at the Dem incompetence at campaigning.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:37 PM
Nov 2014

It's like they didn't want to win.

Where the fuck were they? The message could have been so simple. Republicans obstruct. DESPITE their obstruction, Dems, with Obama at the helm, they got shit done. They should have run to Obama, with Obama and on his record. They should have said, give us the House, give us the Senate and we will get the job done.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
44. I think politicians who have no support from constituents are going to lose
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:19 PM
Nov 2014

And Democrats are always ditzy or self-dividing. Every election I watch the same thing, and not from the politicians, but from ordinary Democrats whining about Dem politicians.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
46. They have to get that support.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:22 PM
Nov 2014

They have to engage and give their constituents something to believe in and vote for.

Aside from that, even "whining" Dems vote and vote Dem. They are not the problem.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
49. I don't agree. I think WE have got to get off our lazy asses...
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:28 PM
Nov 2014

and stop being the whiny, entitled babies we are. We put politicians in office. If we do what we've been doing, which is leave it up to the mythical gods, and imaginary wishes, we will continue under the scourge of Republicans, and all we have to do is look around at what's left of our country to see what Republican ideology has done.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
54. Most will not get off their ass. On either side.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:35 PM
Nov 2014

The most you can ask of a voter is to vote. This is just reality.

There are a small percentage who are active and will work their asses off to get the voters to vote. They work to get some voters to donate money. They even can win a few more over to work as well. But it takes a message from the top to motivate, coordinate and then get the voter to vote.

The voter is largely fixed in party affiliation and ideology. The candidate has to convince them to vote. It is simply not good enough to expect anyone to vote. You can't expect or demand it. It is not about a mythical god, it is about a candidate running a clear, smart and ambitious campaign to get people to vote.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
60. You betcha they do. I work with Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats are silent...
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:41 PM
Nov 2014

the Republicans spend their life TRASHING Democrats. And what do we do? Do we trash Republicans back? Nah. We expect *only*& politicians to do that. We sit comfortably at home and don't open our mouths. This is wimp behavior, and I'm just about at the end of my rope watching this BS year after year. And it's not something that happens on election day only. It happens every day of every year. I'm really sick of it.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
62. Why do repubs trash the Dems? Because the candidates do.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:45 PM
Nov 2014

Why do Dems not bash repubs? Because our candidates don't do it.

THis goes to my point. Dems are horrible at messaging, Repubs are good at it. It is the only thing they are good at.

We need stronger candidates who aren't afraid of the Democratic message and aren't afraid of calling repugs what they are.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
65. Excuse me? You're not understanding what I'm saying. Let me try to explain it differently.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:50 PM
Nov 2014

1. Republicans have a trashing machine like no other and spend 24/7 destroying Democrats in the public eye.
2. Democrats and other libs (NOT candidates) sit around listening to the Repukes, and muttering, "Wow, Republicans are right! That commercial against Obama is sooo true!" Etc.
3. Democrats and other libs do NOT become vocal against Republicans. They sit around wasting time and being silent.
4. The apathy and laziness of Democrats is felt nationwide, and Democratic politicians are quite aware that their own constituents don't give a sh*t and wouldn't back them if their lives depended on it.
5. Without STRONG support Democratic candidates will not have the strength to win, and will not even know which way to lean.

Republican candidates get STRONG and CONSTANT unwavering support from their constituents, something Democrats don't give their candidates - ever.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
66. No. I understand what you are saying, I fundamentally disagree.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:54 PM
Nov 2014

The messaging, motivation and rallying comes from the candidate to the voters. The repubs may get strong support from their constituents, but that is because the republican party keeps the message focused (even is disgusting).

And even with the strong and constant constituent support, they don't always win elections. When Dems win, it is because the candidate and party generated support through their message.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
67. In every elections there are losers and winners, but the degree of laziness and catatonic behavior
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:55 PM
Nov 2014

I've seen from libs in the past few decades, shocks the hell out of me, and I'm beyond sick of it. I'm embarrassed by it.

And again, you're wrong. Candidates will have no self-confidence, when their own constituents are lazy, catatonic, and often agreeing with the opposition, which is what I've witnessed for the past few decades.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
68. Then we need better candidates. The candidate will light the fire.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:58 PM
Nov 2014

Remember 2008? Obama was a helluva campaigner. That is why he won. He built the coalition, he generated the enthusiasm. You can't expect an average voter to be passionate about milquetoast.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
72. What you've just expressed is what I'm saying is the reason Democrats are losing...
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:00 PM
Nov 2014

that lazy sort of "the-candidate-must-rouse-me-from-sleep-or-I-won't-show-interest" sort of zombie behavior.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
73. Then get better candidates. Sorry the reality of American politics requires good campaigners to
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:03 PM
Nov 2014

win a campaign.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
87. Frankly, we need better dem LEADERSHIP. The pubs tell their minions
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:30 PM
Nov 2014

the talking points and off they go. The pubs buy TV networks and broadcast their message 24/7. Same with radio.

Even as a small example here in my district race -- the pubs made sure that every possible house, intersection, business, and vehicle had plenty of pub signs and bumper stickers. Did the dems fan out, go to every registered dem and offer a sign and a bumper sticker?? Hell, no. I could have driven 50 miles and BOUGHT one for myself, but that's stupid. The pubs GIVE this shit away and plaster the whole state. They thus get "name recognition" in spades, and they make themselves look like the only game in town. THIS is how to do it, folks. And, for some reason, the dem 'leadership' refuses to acknowledge the reality that this is a propaganda war and all the rules of propaganda are in play. But they refuse to engage. Why is that, exactly? It's a question that has not been answered.

AleksS

(1,665 posts)
92. I agree with #1 and #5
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:38 PM
Nov 2014

1. Republicans have a trashing machine like no other and spend 24/7 destroying Democrats in the public eye.
5. Without STRONG support Democratic candidates will not have the strength to win, and will not even know which way to lean.

The rest not so much.

I believe in my heart of hearts that the 24/7/365 GOP propaganda machine (in the form of Fox and AM radio) does have an effect. If this crap is on at the mechanic, at the restaurant, at the laundromat, etc. it manages to permeate the culture. Even a non Fox-bot eventually will absorb enough of it to color their perceptions.

The trouble is, left leaning versions don't work. So the left gets its message out for 3-4 months every 2 years, meanwhile the right's message is being trumpeted from the treetops every damn day all the damn time.

The fact that Democrats can pull out a win in 2006, 2008, 2012, etc. in the face of that constant onslaught of hate, rage, and vitriol is a testament to how strong their platform really is.

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution. I'm sorry about that.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
96. Like you, I don't see a solution to this either. The pubs have co-opted the
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:44 PM
Nov 2014

means of distributing propaganda and have used it for 30 years. The actual culture has been changed by this incessant propaganda and will not be changed back by the dems running some right-leaning centrists every few years.

We are at the point where we all will be swept up in some type of revolution, probably one that ushers fascism in for real. Most likely a religious fascism.

padfun

(1,786 posts)
103. That's not the way Dems are around here in Northern Cal
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:56 PM
Nov 2014

We do have some fire breathers here near the Capitol City, Sacramento, but this heavy union area has people who talk back to them. But then, the Dems are in solid control here. We do have some nuts, like Darrell Issa so it isn't completely clean here.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
84. Congratulations!!!
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:29 PM
Nov 2014

You are officially the first DUer to blame "Democrats whining about Dem politicians" as opposed to the MYRAD OF REASONS they lost, not the least of which was THEY DIDN'T HAVE A FUCKING MESSAGE! Let's start there.

Oh, by the way, California hasn't finished voting yet so maybe you could wait about 32 more minutes for the West Coast to finish voting.

KeepItReal

(7,769 posts)
6. And take Pelosi and Reid's "leadership" with her.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:38 PM
Nov 2014

The President has 200+ nominations (including Surgeon General) languishing without Senate Confirmation thanks to Sen. Reid.

Pelosi's "Impeachment is off the table" is always a classic.

SMDH

derby378

(30,252 posts)
8. The Democratic Party hasn't had a successful leader since Howard Dean
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:39 PM
Nov 2014

And yes, I think it's time for a change in the DNC.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
16. Is there bad blood between Dean and Hillary? Yes - he is
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:45 PM
Nov 2014

a brilliant strategist - but not pushy enough IMHO

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
98. Agreed.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:47 PM
Nov 2014

They took his hard work and flushed it down the drain, replacing it with endlessly inane emails.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
9. The Democrats really dropped the ball.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:39 PM
Nov 2014

The candidates didn't have the support they needed to run winning campaigns. We really need Howard Dean back.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
51. Exactly. When candidates have no emotional and political support from their constituents...
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:31 PM
Nov 2014

bad things happen. Libs around the country have to stop being so lazy, waiting for good things to magically fall on their laps.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
93. Hell, local and state dem politicians didn't even have the support of the DEM
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:39 PM
Nov 2014

LEADERSHIP. They couldn't get money, stump speeches, signs, nothing. They were left swinging in the wind. In a couple of egregious cases, the Obama administration visibly detracted from their own dem candidates! What are the dem voters supposed to think about this?? And WE the voters are all at fault for being lazy/whiny/wanting a pony?? Get real. We have NO effective leadership, no dem machine to broadcast the message, nothing. I have come to the conclusion that there IS no coherent message, and that the big players like things just the way they are. What other conclusion can I come to?

VenusRising

(11,252 posts)
12. Someone should have known better than to put her in that position.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:42 PM
Nov 2014

She was always a DLCer and rarely voted with the Dems when it mattered.

I've never liked her, and this really doesn't help. She went with the corporatists again.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
21. Despite all that - which you know more about than I, she
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:48 PM
Nov 2014

has always just seemed ineffectual to me. Being in business world - she reminds me of the squeaky wheel (could be male or female) that no one listens to and no one is influenced by.

barbtries

(28,752 posts)
19. what do you mean "even the press"
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:47 PM
Nov 2014

the fucking press is leading the conversation. "we" could do every single thing right and it would not be reported that way. the press in this country is so owned, so owned. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and "we" are not to blame. of course mistakes were made; one of the biggest imo is carrying on as if corporate media in this country - which is just about all of it including npr - is non-partisan. nope, nope, nope.
i am not taking the blame for it.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
22. you are right ! The only ones on TV who question are Bill Maher
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:50 PM
Nov 2014

Jon Stewart and Colbert. Pretty pathetic.

I see the rest as super intellectually lazy.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
99. Very true, so LET'S BUY SOME FUCKING NETWORKS and make sure they
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:50 PM
Nov 2014

are just as lowbrow as Fox, with a different message. As you note, it's lazy to blame voters who have been bathed in Fox propaganda for 30 years.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
30. Did you see what she had the balls to post on her FB page last nite?
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 09:59 PM
Nov 2014


[img][/img]


Excuse me Deb, but YOU ARE THE CHAIR OF THE DNC! Why didn't you push this talking point?

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
53. I said it before and I'll say it again...
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:33 PM
Nov 2014

If Democrats around the country do not back their candidates (whether or not they adore them), this sort of thing will continue to happen. They'll end up isolated and not backed by their constituents.

Meanwhile, Republican politicians are backed by their constituents unwaveringly, and those politicians FEEL that backing.

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
39. Said it before, sayin' it again
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:08 PM
Nov 2014

In the midterm elections of his second term, George W. Bush lost the Senate.
In the midterm elections of his second term, Ronald Reagan lost the Senate.
In the midterm elections of his second term, Dwight D. Eisenhower lost the Senate.
In the midterm elections of Richard Nixon's second term, Gerald Ford lost the Senate.
In the midterm elections of his second term, Harry Truman very nearly lost the Senate.
In the midterm elections of his second term, Bill Clinton never had the Senate to begin with.

If we look to history, rather than to our fondest hopes as endlessly amplified in our echo chambers, losing the Senate was always the likeliest scenario this year.

progressoid

(49,900 posts)
120. True,
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 10:15 AM
Nov 2014

but with that knowledge, we seem to think that running the same old campaign would somehow work this time.

Perhaps a new strategy could have been used.

world wide wally

(21,732 posts)
45. For the past three weeks, I (and many others in here) have been posting about how the
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:22 PM
Nov 2014

Dems should have been running with the Prez and NOT away from him.

Now, if we can figure this out, why can't the candidates and party leaders?
Are we THAT much more brilliant than them?

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
63. Think the synergy of our combined wisdom is very powerful. Untapped
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:47 PM
Nov 2014

and underutilized totally.

But - it appears that everyone was "on their own" and acted independently - hell, even Obama condoned that "whatever they need to do." (not surprising since he is protecting his ego). this whole thing needed a brainiac to unify everyone.

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
50. "We let the right define that Obama failed."
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:28 PM
Nov 2014

met a woman while canvassing who said she was voting for R's because democratic leadership had let her down. she seemed really concerned about inequality and I asked her if she thought that team R would be more likely to step up to the plate on this one.

while I do feel the some dems are not progressive enough, I don't think the correct response is to vote for less progressive candidates.

tblue37

(65,178 posts)
52. The only decent chairman the Dem Party has had in a long time
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:31 PM
Nov 2014

was Howard Dean--so of course he got no respect from the "leaders" of the party, and of course Rahm Emanuel stole credit for the wins that Dean's 50--state strategy eked out for us.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
57. She should have been drummed out of the party after refusing to endorse Ds is FLA
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 10:38 PM
Nov 2014

And openly supporting their R opponents.

Gore1FL

(21,083 posts)
75. Any time the Democrats believe the GOP message, they lose.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:05 PM
Nov 2014

They Republicans claim Obama is toxic. The Democrats believe them and run from them. We've been the party of "don't hurt me" for so long, everyone believes this to be the only strategy to win--yet it never works.

To the best of my recollection the rut started in the 80's when the Democrats kept running to the center to appease the "Reagan Democrats." A lot of falsehoods were set as "facts" in that decade.

AleksS

(1,665 posts)
95. Too true! This can't be said enough!
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:43 PM
Nov 2014

Too true! This can't be said enough!

We need to stop believing every goddamn thing the GOP tells us. They lie.

They're a sinister version of Brer Rabbit.

Brer Republican: "Oh, no, I sure would hate it if you campaigned by running away from all the achievements Democrats have made in the last few years. That would be a sure way to beat me!"
Democrat: "Oh ho! You have outclevered yourself! I will campaign by running away from everything good Democrats have done for the people of our state and country for the last two years!"

Later

Democrat: (Caught in the briar patch of ignominious defeat.) "Oh my. How was I to ever know that the Brer Republican wasn't telling the truth!"

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
81. Fire her ass!!!!! Stop circling the wagons about these Republican wannabees, jesus
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:23 PM
Nov 2014

you cannot attract young passionate people to the Democratic Party with these MBA friendly bean counters.

Beowulf42

(204 posts)
90. This is crap.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 11:31 PM
Nov 2014

Who or What the Fuck is DWS? There so little information. DWS could me Dumb Wasted Sot for all most of us know. Be clear about what you are writing about.

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
105. Today's Democrats are like cowering dogs
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:11 AM
Nov 2014


They have no loyalty to their own people when they're up for re-election.

The Republicans' poster child of a squeaky clean, wholesome, missionary-only-and-only-for-procreation,"never tasted a drink in my life or even said a curse word" preacher type is their ideal. Because the people like that don't ALWAYS vote straight party Repuke, right?

Ignore the unwashed masses.

It's so ridiculous.

It's not the '50s, people.

And those times were not so nice.

 

Eridenus

(52 posts)
106. Turd Way is over. Way over.
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:12 AM
Nov 2014

My soon-to-be-former Senator Udall was a member of the Turd Way. Ran on nothing but focusing on Gardner's personhood stance, and we get this asshole anyway.

It's time to dump the concept of the Third Way and go hard left. Differentiate from the Republicans and Tea Party batshit crazy motherfuckers that can't even do shit.

Just be thankful that it's a majority that still can't do shit and don't have the votes to throw Obama out even if he was impeached.

It's time to put in Sanders and Warren for 2016. That's the only way I'm going. No more corporatist Democrats, and that means Hillary is NOT the answer.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
107. Or time to put up someone with balls - Like Ted Kennedy who used to say he
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:25 AM
Nov 2014

has proud to be a liberal. when is the last time you heard anyone say that.

calimary

(80,975 posts)
134. Do we know if there's any effort to remove her or demand her resignation?
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 05:08 PM
Nov 2014

If there isn't, we should start one. WE should. WE ACTIVISTS. I don't feel like waiting for the usual suspects to do something sensible. WE should take it upon ourselves to do that. I'm gonna start agitating for it, that's for DAMN sure!

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
114. Time For All Democrats To Act Like They Are Democrats
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:28 AM
Nov 2014

Nobody forced Obama to hire Wall Street toadies like Summers instead of the populist Reich crowd. Nobody forced him to try to sneak the horrible corporate takeover plus trade agreement TPP by us via fast track. Obama is pro TPP, pro trade agreements. The happy clappy dems tend to ignore all this.

This after Clinton went along with doing away with Glass Steagall, letting deposit banks play casino again.

And it will be more of the same with Hillary as well unless she turns away from Wall Street and third way nonsense.

One more thing about achievements with the economy - who got those gains? Joan Walsh pointed that out this last weekend, how much of these gains did the non well off receive?

If I had my druthers we'd go with Elizabeth Warren or Bernie, real populist champions. But we'll go with another third way Clinton, I hope Warren and Sanders force her back to the left.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
115. +1
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:38 AM
Nov 2014

I've never been a fan of hers and I agree she's done a terrible job. Let's get someone in there who isn't in Congress who can be devoted to the job 24/7.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
119. But DWS isn't the problem. She did exactly what she was hired for.
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 10:02 AM
Nov 2014

The Ruling Oligarchs want to see conservatives win. They will accept conservative Democrats but prefer Republicans.

There is a reason that Howard Dean was quietly run out of town. He wouldn't dance for the Ruling Oligarchs.

We don't have a chance until we recognize that our enemy is Conservatism and not Republicanism.

DWS will most likely get fired for effect but replaced with someone equally favored by the Conservative Oligarchs.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
126. Step down my a**
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:05 PM
Nov 2014

She needs to be fired!

I'm sure she could get a job at the RNC after the great work she did for them yesterday!

Looks like being republican lite didn't work out to well for the party eh?

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
133. Well, changing riders might help a little.....
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:48 PM
Nov 2014

...at least it'll be easier on the horse that way.

- And tell 'em to bring a swatter......




K&R

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