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Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:27 AM

Why wasn't anyone worried May, June, July, Aug about workers returning, people entering

the USA from ebola outbreak areas?

And yes, there have been volunteers volunteering and returning and tourists and travelers from the ebola outbreak countries.

Among us for the last 6 months.

Why no concern about them?

Bonus question. Why were there no cases of ebola passed on from any of them or of any of them?

Bonus bonus question. Why do you fear them now?

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Reply Why wasn't anyone worried May, June, July, Aug about workers returning, people entering (Original post)
uppityperson Oct 2014 OP
unblock Oct 2014 #1
uppityperson Oct 2014 #2
Savannahmann Oct 2014 #3
Journeyman Oct 2014 #4
uppityperson Oct 2014 #5
Turbineguy Oct 2014 #6
uppityperson Oct 2014 #7
NJCher Oct 2014 #8
SheilaT Oct 2014 #9
NJCher Oct 2014 #10
uppityperson Oct 2014 #11
NJCher Oct 2014 #12
NJCher Oct 2014 #13
blackspade Oct 2014 #14
MontyPow Oct 2014 #15
TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #16
BuelahWitch Oct 2014 #17
treestar Oct 2014 #18
Chathamization Oct 2014 #19
Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #20
djean111 Oct 2014 #21
uppityperson Oct 2014 #22
uppityperson Oct 2014 #23
Yo_Mama Oct 2014 #24
Yo_Mama Oct 2014 #25
underpants Oct 2014 #26
uppityperson Oct 2014 #27

Response to uppityperson (Original post)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:29 AM

1. ooh! me! me! because there's an election soon and fear bring republicans more votes?

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Response to unblock (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:36 AM

2. May-MrDuncan. No outrage. No panic. Self monitoring of healthcare and volunteers, who knows

about plain people though when I flew in Aug there were signs at passport control saying if you came from one of the ebola outbreak countries, monitor yourself and contact a doctor if you showed symptoms. But that was ot.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:49 AM

3. Actually I was worried.

 

I put Ebola in my daily search terms back about June I think. No, I didn't post here. Does that mean that I wasn't watching this? Nope. But there were next to no news stories to link to, and the rules about such things around here seems to be if you don't link to an approved news site, with an approved story, that you're spreading conspiracy theory. I got several posts hidden before Snowden discussing the probable spying that the NSA was involved in back in those days.

So until someone appeared here with one, did the news stories start which then moved it from the hideable Conspiracy Theory category, to suitable for discussion.

Remember back then the only Ebola in the nation was the health care workers who got sick over there and were flown here in full isolation.

But a better question, why is the military being quarantined when they didn't work with the ebola patients, while the health care workers who were exposed to ebola are not quarantined?

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:52 AM

4. Nobody got sick. Do remember, even irrational fears at times have a basis for origin . . .

Someone actually came back with the disease. Two people came back with it, and one died, but not before he infected others; trained professionals whom we had been assured would handle such a situation with requisite professionalism. Now it was here, one victim dead, and the professionals had somehow "screwed the pooch."

And the specter of this swift killer, in which people die a horrid death, has floated in the collective conscious for decades, kept at bay by the nebulous comfort that it had historically hit isolated villages and killed too swiftly to pose a serious threat. Now, suddenly, it was here. And people panicked at the thought, and were not comforted by the easy platitudes of those proven inadequate in the first test.

This is all easily understood, it seems to me, when viewed through the eyes and experience of people ignorant of modern medicine, fearful of what can only be described as common accidents, and primed by an opportunistic press to doubt the efficacy of every constituted authority, encouraged to see every stumble as irrevocable failure, and amped up to fear most everything in life, especially the new and unknown.

Rather than wondering how we got to this point (a scenario that has been belabored ad nauseum for weeks), might it be better to wonder how we can combat the forces and ignorance that brought us here?

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:53 AM

5. Thank you for answering, but you have a thread on that, let's talk that issue there

rather than hijacking this thread, please. Thank you.

Not a better question, but a different one.

Why did the media not frenzy in the spring and summer about returning volunteers and travelers? And how many people in this country were infected by them? The answer to the last is none.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:54 AM

6. Poor repubs and Fox news

they were so hoping for a serious outbreak.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:08 AM

7. Are you saying ignore how we got to panic mode, combat the panic?

Looking at what happened seems the obvious first step, before developing a plan to fix the problem. Which you seem to have done well in your middle 2 paragraphs, sorry but my dumb pad has teoubles copy/pasting only bits. Good job defining the issues.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:14 AM

8. didn't know about them

I think it bothers people to think there are returning workers who have had contact with Ebola victims return to America and doing things like going bowling, riding the subway, etc. Maybe the other workers did such things, maybe they didn't.

Yes, we know all about science and how the disease is transmitted. We also know that medical workers would never slip up, never make any kind of mistake, and that they are infallible in regarding to self-reporting and monitoring. We're all aware that scientists and medical people thoroughly understand this disease and can be absolutely sure there will be no problems. This is such a certainty that returning workers need not be troubled whatsoever with any delays upon their return.

Re bonus question: please stop attributing concern over this to "fear." What you call "fear, " I call common sense. Others might call it "abundance of caution."


Cher

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Response to NJCher (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:16 AM

9. Because back then the numbers were truly small.

 

While I don't want to minimize the deaths that have occurred, 5,00 dead -- even double that -- is a tiny fraction of the total population of the three countries involve, -- just over 22 million people. So it's .00002 percent. .00002 percent of the total population has died. As terrible as this disease is, as scary as it's mortality is, a very tiny fraction of people have died. At least so far.

Yes, I understand that Ebola is still raging. Yes, I understand that the numbers of sick and dead are bound to increase. Yes, I get it that we collectively need to do all we can to control this awful disease. But at least so far we are not remotely in the range of deaths from the Black Plague, or from the Spanish Flu.

And five or six months ago the numbers were even smaller.

I just think we need to keep things in perspective.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:19 AM

10. oh, and I might add

That the fact that the third largest cause of death in America is due to mistakes made by medical people.

But that doesn't concern me at all. No sirrreee.


Cher

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Response to NJCher (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:23 AM

11. You know what, using language like "never slip up" etc reflects dichotomous thinking and

decreases the import of what you are saying.

And no, it is not "common sense" to fear someone who is not contagious and using the subway.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:54 AM

12. I asked you before to stop using the term "fear"

It is an attribution. You are making a thinking error and I'm tired of it being endlessly repeated. Who are you to say what my motivation is?

Also, I'm not at all sure you understand the meaning of "dichotomous," but that's beside the point.

Here's the way I see it: one mistake in the reasoning that you are purporting could result in spreading this disease in America. Just one mistake: that's all it takes. What if that were to happen? Hundreds of workers would have to be called in to track down everyone exposed to this disease so they could then be monitored. Think this is such an easy task? Ever travel a NY subway?

Asking returning workers, however, to go into quarantine for 21 days affects a very small percentage of people. And it's also not the end of the world to do so. In fact, I think a case could be made that anyone who goes to such a disease hell hole is deserving of a three-week hiatus. They should be paid and every comfort and convenience needed should be given to them.

The way I see it is that you are asking everyone to trust that the medical profession is right (when in fact they have a poor track record) when what is being asked is really a very small thing in comparison to what could happen if you're wrong.

Of course, you will come back with "civil rights is a very small thing????!!!!"

That is not at all what I am saying. I'm saying that the returning workers should be asked to self-quarantine in the home.

The inconvenience of a few is not worth the lives of thousands.


Cher


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Response to NJCher (Reply #12)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:56 AM

13. oh, and in regard to someone not contagious and using the subway

Perhaps you should read this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023644

Seventh paragraph, last sentence.


Cher

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Response to NJCher (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 02:27 AM

14. Excellent questions.

Fear based nonsense is the bread and butter of our media and politicians.

Unfortunately lots of people, even here at DU, lap it up.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 02:44 AM

15. Because TexAssistan.

 

Once our ruling class realized they could fearmonger us on Ebola, the flood gates opened.

And because it was a Third World state, they knew something might go awry

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Response to MontyPow (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 05:02 AM

16. the media didn't think it was worth mentioning

so nobody here knew about it.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 05:23 AM

17. Because the 24 hour news channels were focused on

other Disasters Du Jour. At least one of them was ISIS

It isn't just Fox. CNN and MSNBC can be just as bad. Get rid of the 24 hour news channels and a great deal of the fear will likely go away.

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Response to BuelahWitch (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 06:54 AM

18. Human nature

Mr. Duncan having it in the US. Before that you could have warned people it would happen but people generally won't believe it until it really happens.

No cases passed on because none of them had it. No one actually had it until the Duncan case. Or, those who came were known and went straight to facilities.

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Response to treestar (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 07:00 AM

19. May started with #bringbackourgirls, then quickly switched to "flood of undocumented children"

then we switched to ISIS and ebola. I probably missed some other freak outs during the past few months where we had to act THIS INSTANT! And then promptly forgot about the issue the next week.

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Response to Chathamization (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 07:05 AM

20. How come you're not worrying about that thing that's going to make the news 6 months from now?

I see you haven't posted any articles on it.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 07:55 AM

21. When did "caution" become "panic" and "fear"?

 

THAT is the thing I have been noticing, really.
I seem to see a lot more threads decrying "panic and fear" than thread that are actually "panic and fear".
I believe a healthy caution is a good thing.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #21)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 11:52 AM

22. You mean "but very late into the infection...not clear whether infectious or dead particles"?

Yes, that is what I mean. Someone severly ill, late in the infection, not before they show symptoms. If you see someone barely able to stand or move having massive diarrhea or vomitting, best to avoid shaking their hand.

Infected Langerhans cells can certainly produce virus that infects other cells and tissues. They canít shed virus onto the surface of your skin. Sweat may be able to do that, but very late in infection. Even then, itís not clear whether virus found on the skin is actually infectious, or dead particles still full of the viral RNA.


Edited to add the clip as now am on computer. This backs up what I am saying, thank you for pointing it out.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 11:59 AM

23. Have you read this OP or the linked bit? And no, I will continue to use the word "fear" as we all

fear things.


And you are roght, "dichotomous" may not have been the word I was looking for late at night after working 30 hour straight. I can not thnk od the term, but the behavior is saying "all do" or "they would never" as once that is done, the import of what someone is trying to say decreases. Red herring or strawman? I can never remember thendifference, Yes, dichotomous is black/white thinking, no shades of grey. Now you get to post something about all the typos I have made on this dumb pad keyboard. Cheers.

Here is the thread I meant, a good read.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023016

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:55 PM

24. The situtation has been rapidly worsening.

It wasn't until July/August that the case count really started to increase rapidly, with a total of about 3,000 cases by the end of August.

I believe as of today the new situation report will report about 13,000 cases, an increase of about 3,000 in one week? So there are many more people involved trying to quash this, and there is more of an issue involved with more risk from returning workers.

The case of Mr. Duncan was the first domestically acquired infection, and the failures there have forced a lot of policy changes. People are reacting to real risks. Until the unfortunate Dallas nurses and Dr. Spencer, we did not have to worry about ill HCW wandering the streets. Now we do.

Things change, people react.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #24)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:59 PM

25. They didn't just go straight on to facilities - they were speciality infection control facilities

They were brought in on special transport equipped to handle infection, and then they were taken in special ambulances with special infection control equipment with strong police escorts directly to these speciality units.

So it is not that there was less concern. There was extreme concern. What's really happening now is that we are being told to BE less concerned, because the ability to control public exposure is lessening. Naturally enough, many find this illogical.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #25)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:05 PM

26. Same reason no one paid attention* to the kids coming from Central America 2 1/2 years ago

*no one but the current administration who started making plans


No media coverage/ Repub politicizing hype

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Response to uppityperson (Original post)

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 08:58 PM

27. kick, did the software glitch affect this?

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