Doctor bowled early in week prior to symptoms; isolated himself as soon as he felt sick

[magical thyme]

City officials say Spencer acknowledged riding the subway and taking a cab to a Brooklyn bowling alley in the past week before he started showing symptoms.

According to a rough timeline provided by city officials, the doctor's symptoms developed Wednesday, prompting him to isolate himself in his apartment.

When he felt worse Thursday, he and his fiance made a joint call to authorities to detail his symptoms and his travels. EMTs in full Ebola gear arrived and took him to Bellevue in an ambulance surrounded by police squad cars.

His Harlem apartment was cordoned off, and his fiance, who was not showing symptoms, was being watched in a quarantine ward at Bellevue. Bellevue Hospital is one of eight hospitals designated by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo to treat Ebola in the state.

(forgot the link)
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/23/health-care-worker-being-tested-for-possible-ebola-at-new-york-city-hospital/

[uppityperson]

1. K&R, thank you.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/23/health-care-worker-being-tested-for-possible-ebola-at-new-york-city-hospital/

It seems the system is working as it should.

[bigwillq]

2. Thanks for the info.

I take back (although I won't delete) some of the posts I posted in other threads earlier on this subject.

All the best to the good Doctor.

[scarletwoman]

3. Thank you. (nt)

[morningfog]

4. Everybody calm the fuck down.

Thanks for the update.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. In other words, everyone did everything right

[TwilightGardener]

6. Curious as to why the NYT specifies that he went bowling on Wednesday?

They made it pretty clear he was out on the town yesterday.

[polichick]

7. That's what they said at the presser too.

[magical thyme]

8. in their rush to be 1st maybe they got it wrong

or maybe my link is wrong.

But Fox usually tries to exaggerate, so I'm inclined to believe their version.

[TwilightGardener]

10. I don't know...

"Speaking at the news conference, city officials said that while they were still investigating, they did not believe Dr. Spencer was symptomatic while he traveled around the city on Wednesday and had therefore posed no risk to the public." Spencer was out with friends, who are now quarantined.

[magical thyme]

12. well that certainly contradicts this report...nt

[LisaL]

14. I am pretty sure press conference was more accurate than fox news.

[LisaL]

11. He bowled on Wednesday.

His fever developed Thursday morning.
According to the press conference.

[magical thyme]

17. according to this, he was tired Tuesday but well enough to jog 3 miles

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/23/n-y-health-worker-who-recently-returned-from-west-africa-being-evaluated-for-ebola/

said Mary Travis Bassett, the city's health commissioner. During his travels and upon arriving in New York, she said, "he was well with no symptoms."

He checked his temperature twice daily, she said, and "began feeling somewhat tired" on Tuesday, but was well enough to go on a three-mile jog this week.

[pnwmom]

18. But someone on the hospital staff said he was very ill upon admittance

and s/he couldn't understand why he waited to come in.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html


A health care worker at the hospital said that Dr. Spencer seemed very sick, and it was unclear to the medical staff why he had not gone to the hospital earlier, since his fever was high.

[magical thyme]

22. from what I understand, his symptoms developed overnight

they can come on fairly quickly and the fever can spike quickly.

Remember that Duncan's temp spiked from 100.4 on his intake to 103 while he was in the ED the first time.

That unnamed healthcare worker was violating HIPAA regulations by discussing his case, which leaves me to question their position in the hospital. Plus Ebola is so new here, he or she may not be familiar with how quickly Ebola can change.

[pnwmom]

27. Fevers often spike when the fever reducer wears off. For all any of us knows

Duncan had taken Tylenol for his symptoms earlier in the day and it wore off while he was in the hospital.

Same thing with Dr. Spencer. When he was feeling sluggish, he might have self-treated till that didn't work any longer. We just don't know -- but that's what most people do. And doctors are human.

[magical thyme]

33. that is pure speculation: you have no basis on which to suggest that.

Dr. Brantly was feeling strong when he suggested that Writebol get the first dose of ZMapp.

Within a couple hours, when the 1st dose had just thawed, he couldn't breath and was so sick he said he thought he was dying and asked to have the first dose instead.

[seabeyond]

28. there was a documentary by pbs? on ebola, doctors without border. showing the day to day development

a woman had it and was brought in, and her husband watching her go. she was in bad shape. her husband looked fine. the next day the husband was in. he was already to the point of where she was, and rapidly declining as the woman was healing. it was all a very interesting watch, to see the development of the disease, and what they are up against, day to day.

[magical thyme]

29. exactly. the changes come very fast. nt

[pnwmom]

30. City officials said they didn't "believe" he had symptoms Wednesday night.

But they are still investigating.

[LisaL]

13. Your link does not agree with the press conference.

[magical thyme]

24. and the press conference says he was asymptomatic when he went out. nt

[magical thyme]

19. he wasn't showing symptoms when he went out on Wednesday, per NYT and presser

Speaking at the news conference, city officials said that while they were still investigating, they did not believe Dr. Spencer was symptomatic while he traveled around the city on Wednesday and had therefore posed no risk to the public.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html

I'm taking that to mean that feeling a little tired is not considered a symptom.

[LisaL]

20. He went out on Wednesday.

Thursday morning he got high fever.

[LovingA2andMI]

40. AGREE Lisa L and Thank you for saying it!

So who should we believe.....Fox News or the Elected Democratic Officials at the Presser in NYC. Guess on what side of air w/ caution most DUers would lend on.....

NOT FAUX NEWS.....

[pnwmom]

9. According to that report. NYT reports he started feeling "sluggish" as early as Tuesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html

Dr. Spencer’s fiancée has been quarantined at Bellevue. Two other friends, who had contact with him on Tuesday and Wednesday, have been told by the authorities that they will also be quarantined but whether they will isolate themselves in their homes or be relocated was still under discussion, according to a person briefed on the investigation. None of the three were showing signs of illness.

SNIP

Speaking at the news conference, city officials said that while they were still investigating, they did not believe Dr. Spencer was symptomatic while he traveled around the city on Wednesday and had therefore posed no risk to the public.


Still, out of an abundance of caution, officials said, the Williamsburg bowling alley he visited, the Gutter, was closed on Thursday night and health workers were scheduled to visit on Friday.

SNIP

A health care worker at the hospital said that Dr. Spencer seemed very sick, and it was unclear to the medical staff why he had not gone to the hospital earlier, since his fever was high.

[LisaL]

15. He was feeling fatigue for several days but didn't have a fever.

Thursday morning is when he first got a fever, according to the press conference.

[uppityperson]

16. !

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025671785

[Snarkoleptic]

21. I flipped over to Hannity to get the "hair on fire" take on things and

the All In/TRMS calm discussion was replaced by "...exposing hundreds of people to the Ebola virus." and "US soldiers sent to Ebola hotspots receive just 4-hours of training but should be given hundreds of hours...." (the 'doctor' guest quickly corrected himself to say they need much more than 4-hours).

Faux Newz- Telling people what to be afraid of and who to blame for nearly 20-years.

[Blue Owl]

23. When ebowla strikes, no one is spared

n/t

[magical thyme]

25. pinboy9er...that you?

groan...

[LeftInTX]

32. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

[laundry_queen]

44. HAHA

I shouldn't laugh. But that was good.

[msanthrope]

62. Gutter humor. I laughed, though. nt

[flamingdem]

26. We had better treat our heroes well, we need them!

I will admit to thinking he was not on point but the timeline was incorrect before.

[LeftInTX]

31. Per NYC health commissioner, he went bowling yesterday

Dr. Mary Travis Bassett states on video at 2:39:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health/new-york-possible-ebola-case/

[magical thyme]

34. yes, that has been discussed quite a bit above. In the presser they also say he was asymptomatic

when he was out.

His symptoms could have developed overnight.

[LisaL]

35. But he was feeling fatigue for several days prior.

[magical thyme]

37. apparently feeling a little tired is not considered a symptom

fever, headache, sore throat, abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and malaise are listed as symptoms. Fatigue doesn't make the cut in any list I've seen.

[LisaL]

39. Well, it should be.

Amber Vinson also reported feeling "funny" for several days prior to getting fever.

[uppityperson]

43. hell, if I kept track of every time I was tired or felt "funny", it'd be a long list

for even a week.

[deurbano]

47. Yeah, I think they need to add that symptom to the list.

Health workers self-monitoring are not recognizing feeling "sluggish" or "funny" as the red flags they now appear to be. I wonder if those first signs have been less noticed in Africa among infected health workers, since they are in the throes of providing medical help in challenging conditions. (I heard the protective gear makes them very hot-- and I would assume very tired-- in a brief period of time, so it might be hard to separate that experience from subtle symptoms.) Of course, that doesn't explain the experience of infected non-health care providers in Africa...

[Beaverhausen]

51. And she is Ebola-free and infected no one

My god. Chill out

[WhiteAndNerdy]

54. That's what I've been thinking.

How can fatigue and a vague malaise not be considered symptoms? In any other disease, they are.

[Dorian Gray]

58. What is the

diagnostic difference between malaise and fatigue?

[magical thyme]

60. malaise is more than feeling a little tired. It's a generalised feeling of sickness and weakness.

I feel tired right now. I didn't get as much sleep as I should have. I felt tired yesterday too, even after a good night's sleep. Had to do with the general chill, dark sky and pouring rain.

He felt a little tired, but not tired enough to stop him from a 3 mile jog or going bowling.

Malaise would be enough to stop someone doing either of them.

[Dorian Gray]

61. Thank you for that

I honestly had no idea.

I'm tired quite often, but that malaise I always called fatigue. (I was mildly sick last week with a head cold. No fever. But I did have that overall fatigue/malaise for two days where it took all my energy to get out of bed.)

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

68. But one is expected to feel fatigue when traveling halfway across the world

Some of us get terrible, terrible jet lag, even more than the norm.

[LeftInTX]

36. Thanks.......I should have looked further up the thread

[Warpy]

38. Thank you. That sounds much more like a reasonable time line

for a person who has been on the front lines fighting this thing.

I sincerely hope he comes through it OK and that his fiancee remains symptom free, although she is at greatest risk at this point. Everyone else's risk is close to zero.

[LisaL]

45. I don't know why it would sound reasonable when it's not accurate.

This timeline doesn't agree with what was presented during press-conference.

[magical thyme]

56. because it was prior to him showing any symptoms, which agrees with the press conference. nt

[Man from Pickens]

41. So Fox News contradicts other reports

yet they are somehow now suddenly credible? I am not buying it.

[magical thyme]

57. Fox is being less inflammatory than other reports. not their reputation around here. that is all. nt

[mindwalker_i]

42. Ebola: It's Right Up your Alley

We'll see who's spared.

[mrmpa]

46. He didn't take a cab, he took an UBER............

I drive for UBER. I'm not afraid for the driver as long as he didn't have contact with any body fluids from the Doctor. As an UBER driver I am more afraid of the Flu than anything else. I got my flu shot last month, I have a lot of passengers, sneezing and coughing. I have a supply of Kleenex and hand sanitizer. Also after every ride I have an aerosol can of Lysol and spray the car.

[Aerows]

48. Did he test positive for Ebola? n/t

[LisaL]

49. Yes.

[Aerows]

50. damn :( n/t

[sakabatou]

55. :(

[AverageJoe90]

52. Good news, for now.

At least in the way that it's highly unlikely anyone who had contact prior to the symptoms showing up will get sick. Best wishes to Dr. Spencer.

[pnwmom]

53. Except for the fiancé who is under hospital quarantine.

She's not in the best situation.

[morningfog]

59. She should be fine.

He wasn't puking and shitting all over. He went in early.

[pnwmom]

63. Oh. So you know they didn't exchange any bodily fluids since he started feeling "sluggish"

on Tuesday. And that,even though they said he was "seriously ill" with diarrhea Thursday morning, she couldn't have been exposed.

That's a relief.



(Somehow I doubt that she or her family is as confident as you are, as she sits in quarantine at the hospital.)

I hope she is as lucky as Duncan's family members were. But it's obviously not something to count on -- especially if they had sex after Tuesday.

[morningfog]

64. He didn't have a fever (100.3) until Wednesday night.

It is practically impossible that she was infected. I know you want badly to worry and fret, so please continue.

[pnwmom]

65. And you've had the same over-confident attitude

that led the Dallas hospital and authorities to make so many mistakes.

You'd have more credibility if you hadn't been so busy in the first week trying to justify or minimize every stupid thing they did.

Fortunately, they -- and other hospitals, and the CDC -- appear to have learned from these mistakes and are taking precautions a lot more seriously now.

Still, any healthy young person known to be recently exposed to Ebola who is feeling "sluggish" shouldn't have sex because it is not "practically impossible" that there is virus in sperm, any more than it was practically impossible that a nurse in Dallas could get infected if she had some skin on her neck exposed.

[morningfog]

66. Why is it so hard for people to recognize the difference in a late stage ebola patient and someone

who has no symptoms.

I give a rat's ass about your perception of my credibility. You chicken little's have been dead wrong every step of the way. Sorry you are not going to get an outbreak in the US.

[pnwmom]

67. You keep ignoring the fact that Dr. Freiden himself regarded it as most likely that

the nurses were exposed in the first two days after Duncan entered the hospital -- when he certainly had symptoms.

And that the NY doctor also had diarrhea and other symptoms when he entered the hospital.

If we don't have an outbreak--and I am hopeful -- it is because the health authorities HAVE learned from their early mistakes,even though you have not.

[morningfog]

69. Here is what Freided said:

On Monday, Dr. Tom Frieden, director of the CDC, told reporters that it's still unknown how the infection occurred, only that a "breach in protocol" for treating a patient happened.

Frieden said state and federal health officials are re-examining those protocols, including the removal of protective gear after contact with an Ebola patient and if it might be helpful to spray virus-killing solution on workers as they leave an isolation unit.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-nurse-how-could-this-happen/

I accept your apology for being so rude and misstating everything.

[pnwmom]

70. I have misstated nothing. As you know, because I gave you this link before,

Freiden said he thought the exposure most likely occurred between the 28th and 30th.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/10/15/ebola-stricken-nurse-flew-on-a-passenger-plane-a-day-before-being-diagnosed/

It is still unclear how, exactly, Pham and Vinson were infected with Ebola, but Frieden suggested on Wednesday that it occurred during the days after Duncan was admitted to the hospital and before the CDC team arrived. Duncan was placed in isolation at the hospital on Sunday, Sept. 28, and the CDC did not arrive until Tuesday, Sept. 30, the day Duncan was diagnosed. Pham and Vinson both cared for Duncan during these days and had “extensive contact” with Duncan, who was vomiting and had diarrhea, Frieden said.