Turkey prefers to attack the Kurds, leave ISIS alone.

[cali]

That's the bottom line here. Turkey is seizing what it sees as an opportunity to knock out the Kurdish bids for independence for good. It's foolish, but that's what Erdogan is doing. Kurds constitute 18% of the population.

http://time.com/3507187/turkey-kurdish-rebels-pkk-isis-kobrani/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/world/europe/turkey-airstrike-kurds-isis.html

Anger as wounded Kurdish fighters die stranded at Turkish border

With medical supplies depleted in the war-ravaged north Syrian town of Kobani, Kurdish activist Blesa Omar rushed three comrades wounded in battle against Islamic State fighters straight to the border to dispatch them to a Turkish hospital.

He said he spent the next four hours watching them die, one by one, from what he thinks were treatable shrapnel wounds as Turkish border guards refused to let them through the frontier.

"To me it is clear they died because they waited so long. If they had received help, even up to one hour before their deaths, they could have lived," said Omar, 34, an ethnic Kurd originally from Iraq who holds Swedish nationality.

"Once the soldiers realized they were dead, they said, 'Now you can cross with the bodies.' I cannot forget that. It was total chaos, it was a catastrophe," he said, choking back tears.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/14/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-fighters-idUSKCN0I318O20141014

[truedelphi]

1. The Kurds in Northern Iraq have been the USA's trusted ally, who we always repay with

Betrayal, time and time again.

It seems like the Kurds get a rough deal from everyone out there.

But it shows you how ISIS is a made-up Boogey Man. (Not that the bloodshed they create is not real, but we offered them money and support since at least 2012, and they were the ones Obama wanted us to support last year when he tried to get us Americans to get behind a major offensive in Syria.)

[cali]

3. could you provide some links to reputable sources

that the U.S. supported ISIS? From what I've read, although there's some fluidity between rebel groups, it was the FSA that the U.S. supported- though now the U.S. isn't even supporting them or any other Syrian rebel groups.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/14/no-syrian-rebels-allowed-at-isis-war-conference.html

[cali]

17. OK I understand that. and that is where discernment and critical thinking come into

play.

Look, I think if you make claims, you have an obligation to provide evidence for said claims.

You can't, ergo, your claims are not credible.

[geek tragedy]

26. Hey, Obama giving mind control beams to terrorists is completely credible.

Just ask Alex Jones!

[geek tragedy]

25. So your theory now is that Obama has been siding with ISIS and supplying them with top-secret

mind control beams.

Did you read that at rense or infowars?

[geek tragedy]

24. "they were the ones Obama wanted us to support"

"we offered them money and support"

Not everything you read on infowars is true.

Please be more careful about making factually accurate statements.

[LittleBlue]

2. This war against ISIS is going well

Our rebel allies turning against us. Assad gets some relief. The Kurds get shafted. ISIS largely unaffected, according to UK's Independent.

[cali]

5. and that about sums up the clusterfuck.

[distantearlywarning]

23. Yep, that's about the shape of it.

[jaysunb]

4. One giant cluster fuck ! n/t

[Little Star]

6. Our strategy is working well. Not.

[TwilightGardener]

7. For all those who want to bash the "strategy", whatever you think that is, what

is your alternative? And no, it can't be "stay out, it's not our fight". And it can't be "why can't the regional players take care of it?", because obviously that's not happening. Do you want heavier bombing, with higher risk of civilian casualties? American infantry and Marines? Take out Assad now? I see lots of critics, no answers. The point is, what we're doing is about all we can do.

[GitRDun]

8. I disagree with your presumption.

There is no reason we can't ask the regional players to take the lead. Why should we risk our troops and the consequences of indiscriminate bombing in this area?

There is no threat to the US here.

The Iraqis asked us to leave so we are out.

The Turks buy ISIS oil and kill Kurds in some kind of tribal warfare.

The Sunni states send no troops to protect Sunnis.

We've got to change our mentality and realize that long term, there is no military solution and as long as these tribes want to kill each other, no military intervention can help.

We're far better off offering diplomatic solutions, working for peace once these sides have had enough death.

We're offering the wrong solution. Military intervention is not the answer.

[TwilightGardener]

11. The Iraqis are begging us to help. Some want ground troops in Anbar.

Look at all the people who want us to save Kobani, when we don't have any sort of presence in Syria and had no intention of waging a big military campaign there, beyond striking some strategic targets. The regional players are only participating because we convinced them to, and we are coordinating the mission. If we didn't, they'd continue to ask us for help and do nothing but fortify their own defenses, and blame us for the bad results. If we do nothing, what would the consequences be, short and long-term? I'd say, not very good, for anyone. I can't see a diplomatic solution to the immediate problem of ISIS, other than hoping the Sunnis eventually stop supporting and harboring them. On the other hand, I also don't see American troops occupying Iraq again, and certainly not Syria. It just wouldn't work. All I can see is, airstrikes, some special forces and trainers to help guide the Iraqis/Kurds, giving the Kurds weapons, and diplomatic pressure to make Sunni groups amenable to kicking out ISIS. I just don't see another way than what we're doing.

[cali]

18. the Iraqi government is begging. the Iraqi people? Not so much.

[TwilightGardener]

19. I don't know, the Kurds are pretty excited for us to help.

I don't know if you can assume our airstrikes are unwanted, at this point. Maybe by the Sunnis in Anbar, or the Shiite militias, our former troublemakers, but overall? Hard to say.

[GitRDun]

21. I hear what you are saying.

We would be hated for not helping in the short term. I say we chance it. We're already hated by everyone. Look at the long term though.

We've enabled an Israel / Palestine conflict to go on for decades. Israel kills people indiscriminately and goes on a land grab similar to what we did here in the US centuries ago. Palestinians don't like the deal they are getting so some attack Israel, albeit in a feeble way. Israel calls them terrorists. Were the American Indians terrorists? If all I knew growing up was that Israel killed half my family, chopped down my neighbors olive trees, illegally grabbed land that was given to my people in 1967, I might fight back too. What if we stopped sending Israel weapons decades ago? They might have had to be more even handed without big brother. Today they bully us around like we're their lap dog and no one complains or does anything about it.

We stuck Sadaam in Iraq. Then we broke Iraq to get rid of him. In both cases, plenty of people would say, we're just here to help. All to what end? Sunnis and Shia do not get along. The Kurds seem to be everyone's favorite punching bag. Each military intervention has produced nothing but more war and atrocities.

These tribes have been fighting for centuries. Until the oil starts running low over there, none of those states will do anything other than support the status quo. Why should we waste our treasure and people to help their 1%ers?

It's just my opinion. People can agree to disagree. I just think until this country can exit the perpetual panic and rage we've been under since 09/11, we'll continue to make stupid decisions.

[world wide wally]

9. How about the ol' "Everybody out of the pool" trick?

[LittleBlue]

10. Do nothing

Because ethnic/religious wars can't be solved with bombs. Israel found this out 30 years ago with Hezbollah.

[fadedrose]

13. Ain't that a blast....

Our allies are killing our allies..

Woebetide, Oh me, holy cow, wow, what-to-do, dammit, wish I could swear better, who was it that called someone an "unredeemable fuckwit"? Turkey has an army of them, I think, not knowing all the facts...

[gratuitous]

14. Well, I never!

My goodness, it's almost as if the various factions don't care a whit about our exceptional exceptionalism, land of the free and home of the brave, greatest country in the history of the world, red-white-and-blue star-spangled United States. I wonder if our credibility means anything to the Turks or the Kurds or ISIS or the Iranians or Al Qaeda or the Syrians or the Quds Force (remember them?) or the Lebanese or the Iraqis or, well, anyone around there?

It's just so puzzling, and after all we've done in the area lately.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. How about we establish a "no fly zone" over the Kurds and put sanctions on Turkey?

It worked ever so well when we did that for the Gazans and those sanctions really impressed Israel....oh, wait.

[NutmegYankee]

16. Well, considering that one third of Turkey belongs to Kurdistan...

I understand their motives, but sincerely hope they lose in the end.

[JEB]

20. Air dropping Bibles and Bagels would be more effective.

Or we can keep jumping up and down on our own dicks.

[KoKo]

22. Well...he did say......"Lawrence of Arabia".......

so...should we have expected differently?

[Jackpine Radical]

27. Why are we even fucking around in that part of the world?

We have no actual allies there (including the Israelis, as far as I'm concerned), just people who are playing angles against each other and us. A pox on all their houses. Let them sort it out for themselves.

Yes, we're to blame for destabilizing much of the Middle East over the past 60 years with our ill-advised tinkering, but, stupid as our actions have been, all they did was to release long-held hostilities, grievances & grudges that have been festering there for millenia. Any recovering alcoholic familiar with the Serenity Prayer would know better than to do what we have done there, and would know enough to realize there is nothing we can do to make it any better, so we're well-advised to just get our asses & our munitions out of the neighborhood.